Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Rosebud on January 20, 2006, 01:20:20 am
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Ok, I am new to the tub...two months of ownership...I just put in a new spa frog bromine cartridge this Monday in my marquis epic with in line system (my third 3rd ish cartridge since purchase). They seem to last about 2-3 weeks max, I test water daily with the strips. I set the frog at setting number 3 and I do shock weekly....bam I have very high bromine (max out strip and you can smell it). I turned the cartridge down to number one, cut the clean cycle down to 3 hrs twice a day...and still two days latter very high bromine, I took the cartridge out today, it appears to be just kinda low on material or just about empty (only four days total) is it possible that it is a defective cartridge? Should I not shock the tub this week? Should I just leave a cartridge out of the system a couple days until Bromine levels reduce? Can I refill these cartridges with granular bromine (I see the top pops off the top of the cartridge and you remove the spacer)...hope the experts responds soon...I have some hot guys coming over this weekend!
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Yes you could have had a defective cartridge...I will give them a call in the morning and see what advice I can find. Leave your cover open for a couple of hours and run the jets. If you have MPS (shock) without Chlorine you might also throw in some of that at the same time.
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Rosebud, I think we probably got our spas around the same time. I am also on my 3rd bromine cartridge. I posted on here with the same problem, the bromine level was glowing. I did exactly what Stuart said and I also opened my air jets. Watch if you leave your frog on the 1 setting. I did that too and ended up with a cloudy tub. It seems that 2 is the magic number and that the once a week shock routine is really a baseline and more dependent on your usage. If you are using the test strips, I wonder how accurate the bromine readings really are. If you don't read it within the several seconds that the manufacturer recommends, the reading will continue to go up. I kind of depend on the smell to verify the levels that I get on the strips. Don't panic over your company coming. If I understand correctly, the high level of Bromine will be reduced anyway with heavy usage and maybe it is better a little high if you are having a bunch of people in the spa. But Stuart will be the best guide.
Oh also, I had changed my filter cycle and times but then reset them back to the default settings after my tub became cloudy.
I think that it is an experience thing that you acquire. It is surely very different than a swimming pool! I take a peek every morning to be sure the tub looks clear and I test about every 3 to 4 days. Things seem to be working out now. good luck with your hotties! ;)
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Rosebud,
BK in another thread was asking about bromine & the inline system. To save time, I just copied my response to him in this post:
I've been using the inline bromine & mineral cartridges since my Marquis Reward was installed in July. This system works well for me. Bromine doesn't have much of a smell (I noticed last night I couldn't smell it at all & the test strip showed it was at optimal level) and maintenance is minimal.
They recommend replacing the bromine cartridge every couple of weeks but then I realized it's just a container for bromine tablets. It's cheaper to refill the cartridges. I now have two cartridges so one is always ready to be switched out.
I haven't found a substitute for the mineral cartridge but that only gets replaced at the water change.
To specifically answer your question, don't use the granular bromine, use the bromine tablets. The granular bromine is used to raise the bromine levels immediately. Tablets are to maintain the levels over time.
You'll find refilling the cartridges much cheaper. At first, the cartridges are kind of tough to open. I use a small screwdriver to pry the pieces apart so I can refill them. Inside, there's a small piece about 2" long that acts as a filler - it just takes up space. Throw that away and you'll have more room for additional tablets. This lets the cartridge last a longer. You end up using the two long pieces and the cap. One long piece fits inside the other, fill it with tablets, cap it and - Voilá - longer lasting cartridges!
if any of this is not clear, let me know.
Also, from what I have read here, bromine dissipates in contact with sunlight. You may need to open your cover awhile to bring down the levels. Someone else may have a better suggestion.
Phil
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Most of the time when bromine is to high in a frog system and the containter is set for less than 4 it is because of filteration modes. You should have 2 filter cycles of 2 hours and your constant clean cycle at 1 hour then if your water seems to be not cleaning enough you can bump it up a bit at a time. I bump up the constant clean first.
When your #1 pump is running you bromine is being dispersed. Be aware that every time you push a jet or light button the constant clean will come on. This includes the in-home remote so if someone is playing with that your running alot of filter cycles.
You can easily disable this feature if you need to.
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Stuart, Are the settings that you are suggesting the default settings? And when you say not cleaning enough, are you saying that there isn't enough sanitizer being introduced in the tub, or do additional filter cycles help the sanitizer work and thereby reduce the bromine levels? I hope this doesn't sound stupid but now I am confused????I just put a new cartridge in and I am also glowing green now, should I add another
constant clean cycle? or am I actually increasing the cycles by turning the jets on to dissipate bromine and making the tub think it was used...darn whose idea was it to let these tubs think on their own anyway?
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It is hard to give blanketed statement as to what works best for everyone as use and number of people and even our body chemistry are different. What we have have found to be work very well for most people is that two filter cycles of 2 hours each twice day and than upping the clean up cycle to 2 hours seems to work well for most......the thought being that after the spa has been used is when it is at it most dirtiest and that's why we bump the clean up cycle .....as for the frog it is just one way of sanitizing your water .....Marquis has done a very nice job of incorporating into its water management system but if you for example like dichlor ....than I would suggest to use the mineral from the frog and not the bromine..or some of our customers keep the bromine down to 1 and once a week add some dichlor sorta as a kicker about 3 days after shocking it seems to again well for those who use it.....and also if you have extra guests in the spa for a day add some extra sanitizer regardless of the brand of your spa.....
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I use a bromine floater, set on 3 and only occasionally add a shot of bromine booster and seem to do well with this system.
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Thanks a ton for all the great suggestions, its great to have the support of so many pros!
Stuart I took the cartridge out of the inline system and ran the tub with air and the top off for a couple hours (running outside in the cold to turn the jets back on every 15/20 minutes because they automatically shut off) and noticed a slight reduction in Bromine. Based upon your suggestion I shocked the tub and the next day it was at least not glowing but high. Its been five days now and its where it should be and I will try a new cartridge. Thanks again for your help
Bonibelle, Thanks for the tips and I will try setting number two on the new cartridge.
NE-Phil, I excited to try the tablets and I assume that its ok to use the same setting ( number two or three). I use the tub daily.
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...NE-Phil, I excited to try the tablets and I assume that its ok to use the same setting ( number two or three). I use the tub daily.
Rosebud,
That will probably be fine but every tub and owner are different depending on your usage.
Fortunately, most of this is seat of the pants stuff. Try it. If the bromine levels are low, bump it up a notch! ;) :)
Phil
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Rosebud
You may want to consider ditching the frog system
It's more expensive than running a Lexmark printer
I got three cartridges with my tub and have refilled them with a high quality bromine puck, but then I switched to dichlor. I found that I had to adjust the filter times to achieve proper sanitation levels. Three hours twice a day is a lot of filtering time. (electrical cost is about 6 to 8 cents per hour in low speed pump mode) If you like the bromine, mps will keep the levels up and let you keep the dial down. Dichlor is a good shock as it is a better sanitizer. Add bromine salts after a water change to get your bromine level up right away if you stay on it. I have a cupboard full of this stuff sitting there now. Oh well!
Later
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Cola...you're right. Replacing the bromine cartridges every 2-3 weeks is expensive. I'm not having any problems with my water and it looks great, but I'm going to try the refilling the cartridges once mine are gone.
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Cola, thanks for the input but what is mps? and I can use Dicholor with a bromine set up? What are your thoughts on the using the tablets in the used cartridges?
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MPS is the shock for bromine that converts spent bromine back into sanitizer. The dichlor is completely ok with the bromine. There are some others here that could explain it better than me.
Good luck
Later
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What size tablets should be purchased to fit inside the cartridge?
Snyper
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The larger tablets don't fit. I use the smaller ones. They're about 1-1/4" in diameter.
Phil
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The larger tablets don't fit. I use the smaller ones. They're about 1-1/4" in diameter.
Phil
Thanks for the answer.
Now, how many should I put inside?
Snyper--
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Now, how many should I put inside?
Snyper--
Snyper,
See my earlier posts on this thread. As many as will fit. The more tablets, the better. It saves you from having to switch out the cartridges as often.
Phil
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Snyper,
See my earlier posts on this thread. As many as will fit. The more tablets, the better. It saves you from having to switch out the cartridges as often.
Phil
Thanks, I read ok, but my comprehension isn't very good :)
Also, I am looking for a good on-line spa supply store that has great prices and reasonable shipping costs....Any suggestions?
Snyper
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The larger tablets don't fit. I use the smaller ones. They're about 1-1/4" in diameter.
Phil
Since I have only used the Frog Bromine carts I really don't know anything about bromine tablets. Is there a difference between brands or are there different strength tablets? Meaning is the active ingredients in my Frog Bromine cart the same as the active ingredients in all bromine tablets?
I just want to make sure the tablets I buy are comparable with what I am using now.
Thanks!!
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Is there a difference between brands or are there different strength tablets? Meaning is the active ingredients in my Frog Bromine cart the same as the active ingredients in all bromine tablets?
I just want to make sure the tablets I buy are comparable with what I am using now.
Thanks!!
jdheffer,
Hmmm. To tell you the truth, I never thought to compare ingredients. In fact, I don't even know if the ingredients are listed on the cartridge (I'm responding to this from work - not home).
The last time I bought bromine tablets in bulk was from Lelie's Pool Supply and I just bought what they had. There were no choices.
Anyway, my spa is happy. My strips and Taylor test kit show it's getting bromine.
Maybe one of the dealers here know if there are different qualities of bromine tablets? ???
Update
I'm now at home and checked the cartridges. They show 96% bromine and 4% other ingredients. The type of bromine is 1-Bromo-3-Chloro-5,5-Dimethylhydantoin. (And no - it don't mean a thing to me! ;))
The tablets I bought at Leslie's Pool Supply are exactly the same.
Phil
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Thanks Phil!! I'll have to start tablet shopping, I only have a couple bromine carts left.
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Well, hot DAMN....I was told last night that you can NOT refill the frog cartridges (I thought that was a frigging WASTE of money) so had to blow something akin to $14 at the spa store each time I needed to purchase ANOTHER cartridge (every 2-4 weeks? NO WAY)...Now, if I can get a pound and a half of bromine tablets and splunk them in the frog floater....THAT I would be interested in.....I wasn't so hot on the sales lady's idea of taking tablets and dropping them in the skimmer basket.......
Thank you all for making things clearer and make more sense than what I'm getting at the store!
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Perhaps I should keep this under wraps....But I have recently been told that prices for the bromine cartridges should be dropping to under 10.00 bucks in the next 30 days...Keep in mind dealers can sell them for what ever price they choose and current inventory will effect this as well....
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I have another Spa Frog with bromine question. I am new to using the Spa Frog. It is built in to my new Marquis Quest. I tweaked with the water balance today, waiting the full 15 minutes between chemicals before adding the next. My dealer's water test results yesterday said I needed 1/4 cup of shock, so I added that last. Then I understand I need to keep the top off for 2 hours so the bromine level can "burn off." Well....it was 40 degrees here today, so after adding the chemicals and the shock, my temp was down to 98 from 104. Do I really have to keep the lid off that long? I don't feel like taking 2 hours every Saturday just add shock. Am I making any sense? ???
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I leave the cover off about 10 minutes after I shock.
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Perhaps I should keep this under wraps....But I have recently been told that prices for the bromine cartridges should be dropping to under 10.00 bucks in the next 30 days...Keep in mind dealers can sell them for what ever price they choose and current inventory will effect this as well....
I was at my dealer today and for $49.99 he had 4 bromine cartridges bundled with one mineral cartridge, so the price of something is going down.
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That is a very good deal....It is my understanding that the price is being droped this month....which is good for all who use and also sell the system....
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Do I really have to keep the lid off that long? I don't feel like taking 2 hours every Saturday just add shock. Am I making any sense? ???
smith917,
I don't blame you, 2 hours is way too long. The most I have ever read here on this site is 15 - 20 minutes. I only leave it off for 20 minutes, tops.
I would imagine 2 hours would deplete the bromine in your spa. :O
Phil
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Another Spa Frog question. Maybe Phil can help me. I am trying to refill the bromine cart as Phil directed, but I am wondering if my cart looks different than his. I pried the two long pieces apart. The bromine tabs obviously go in the center piece, but I can't get it open without destroying the cart. It looks to me that the ring is fixed, and I have to pry off the flat top piece, but then I don't see how the top piece will go on again. Any suggestions?
Rosebud,
BK in another thread was asking about bromine & the inline system. To save time, I just copied my response to him in this post:
I've been using the inline bromine & mineral cartridges since my Marquis Reward was installed in July. This system works well for me. Bromine doesn't have much of a smell (I noticed last night I couldn't smell it at all & the test strip showed it was at optimal level) and maintenance is minimal.
They recommend replacing the bromine cartridge every couple of weeks but then I realized it's just a container for bromine tablets. It's cheaper to refill the cartridges. I now have two cartridges so one is always ready to be switched out.
I haven't found a substitute for the mineral cartridge but that only gets replaced at the water change.
To specifically answer your question, don't use the granular bromine, use the bromine tablets. The granular bromine is used to raise the bromine levels immediately. Tablets are to maintain the levels over time.
You'll find refilling the cartridges much cheaper. At first, the cartridges are kind of tough to open. I use a small screwdriver to pry the pieces apart so I can refill them. Inside, there's a small piece about 2" long that acts as a filler - it just takes up space. Throw that away and you'll have more room for additional tablets. This lets the cartridge last a longer. You end up using the two long pieces and the cap. One long piece fits inside the other, fill it with tablets, cap it and - Voilá - longer lasting cartridges!
if any of this is not clear, let me know.
Also, from what I have read here, bromine dissipates in contact with sunlight. You may need to open your cover awhile to bring down the levels. Someone else may have a better suggestion.
Phil
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Jane & Russ,
I'm hoping a picture is worth a thousand words.
(http://phil.dixon.net/images/BRCart2.jpg)
Pry off the cap with a small screwdriver. Remove and throw away the spacer inside. The spacer is there so they don't have to put in as many tablets. :( Don't worry about the cartridge within the cartridge. Just make sure they're both dry (I leave them in the dish drainer for a couple of nights).
You can see I can fit 9 of the bromine tablets - a few more than they give you because they insert the spacer to limit the number of tablets.
I can send you a larger picture if the detail is not good enough.
Phil
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Marquis owners be on the look out for the new and improved bromine cartridge that has 200ppm of bromine instead of 150ppm. You should see it at your dealer in the next few months...
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Thanks, Phil for the picture. We got the cap off and got 7 or 8 tablets inside. The "spacer" did not seem to want to be removed, but we will try harder next time.
Another question. Now we have tablets in the cart, and originally it had granules. Do the granules dissipate at the same rate as the tablets? We left the setting at 2, like we had for the granules. Our original cart lasted us about 3 weeks, and there were still some granules when we opened it today.
Jane
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Thanks, Phil for the picture. We got the cap off and got 7 or 8 tablets inside. The "spacer" did not seem to want to be removed, but we will try harder next time.
Another question. Now we have tablets in the cart, and originally it had granules. Do the granules dissipate at the same rate as the tablets? We left the setting at 2, like we had for the granules. Our original cart lasted us about 3 weeks, and there were still some granules when we opened it today.
Jane
I don't see how you can fit in the tablets without removing the spacer but if you have 7 or 8 tablets, that'll be fine.
I don't know anything about granules in the cartridge, just the tablets. That's all that were ever in my cartridges. My guess is yours also had tablets but over the 3 weeks it has disssolved to just the granules. Or maybe not.
Anyway, I need to switch out the cartridge about every 3 weeks or so.
Phil
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Thanks again, Phil. I am sure your are right, that I had tablets in the original cartridge. By the end of its time, they had broken down, and I had assumed I had granules. What is the importance of making sure the cartridge is dry? We filled it right up and put it back in the hot tub. We don't have 2 cartridges yet to change them out, but I will be ordering a new one before the next change. Jane
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...What is the importance of making sure the cartridge is dry? We filled it right up and put it back in the hot tub. We don't have 2 cartridges yet to change them out, but I will be ordering a new one before the next change. Jane
Jane,
You hit the nail on the head. I have a couple of cartridges so I make it a point to dry out the 2nd one before I refill it. That way, I can store it and know I won't have a mess in my cabinet.
If you just have the one cartridge, it makes no difference, wet or dry.
Enjoy, ;D
Phil
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OK guys. The Frog company is changing the cartridges to make them much much harder to open. But they have dropped the price $1 and are introducing the GREEN Bromine cartridge which will last longer than the yellow cartridge for those of you who use your spa almost everday. Most Marquis users will. It should last closer to 4 weeks now. Be on the look out.
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OK guys. The Frog company is changing the cartridges to make them much much harder to open.
OK, folks: read between the lines! ;)
Buy your cartridges now before your local spa shop switches over to the harder to open kind!!! ;D
Phil
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I doubt the new green cartridges will be harder to open. The new cartridges should last 4-6 weeks instead of the typical 3-4 that the yellow last. How long they last depends on the usage and the size of the tub.
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OK, folks: read between the lines! ;)
Buy your cartridges now before your local spa shop switches over to the harder to open kind!!! ;D
Phil
Too late for me it looks like. I have two, well one now after ripping the top off of one.
I was able to salvage one that should work alright.