Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: taylornmartin on November 10, 2005, 10:10:50 am
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Hi, I've had my Hot Spring Vista for almost a year now, but since March I've been getting a skin rash to varying degrees after every use. I saw a dermotologist, but all he did was prescribe a cream and recommend that I use a lot of moisturizer. I have drained it and cleaned it and refilled it three times now (I think I may have recontaminated it by using the same hose when I refilled). It has been sitting empty since Saturday, but I want to be sure I've done everything possible to rectify the situation before I refill it. My research leads me to believe I have folliculitis (tiny red bumps that feel like poison ivy). Here's what I've done so far: I drained the tub. I cleaned it with a mixture of water and chlorine (even inside the motomassage compartment). I removed and cleaned the filters. What else can I do? Please Help!
Martin :'(
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It sounds like you have taken most of the necessary steps to resolve your problem. I would also suggest running the spa while simultaneously turning all of the Smart Jet and Comfort Control levers to make sure the sanitized water is being flushed throughout the entire system as an added precaution. Keep us updated and good luck!
Terminator
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Cleaning and draining the tub with a product like Swirl Away can help in cleaning out those pipes and any cooties that could be living in there. I used it on a pre-owned tub I had and had to really flush out and rinse the tub after using this product.
However, you said you washed and drained it 3x. this might be ok.
Shock and sanitize the tub after filling it. I am told bacterai can live in the hose that you filled it with.
Remove and clean any pillows. Clean the filter compartment area, get rid of any "toys" that maybe in the tub (duckies that have squeaker holes in them, squirt guns, etc.)
Hydrocortozone cream after using the tub can help too if you have over sensistive skin.
Good luck.
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Add 3oz Lysol concentrate and 2 cups of bleach for every 500 gallons.
Run spa for 24 hours turning jets in all directions.
Dump and immediately refill.
This works.
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Guzz is right on point! That is a proven method and DOES work! Good luck!
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Before you go assuming you have a bacteria, check your ph. A low ph is a nasty kind of water that will give you a nasty kind of rash. I learned this first hand.
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Other than a 10 day vacation just before all this rash stuff started, I've been very attentive to chlorine and ph levels. My brother was taking care of the tub while I was away, and I fear that the sanitizer level was low and the problem started then. I don't know how to be sure about the bacteria, is there a way to test for it?
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Another question, My reading led me to believe that the red bumps (like poison ivy) was probably folliculitis. Does this sound right?
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As far as testing for the bacteria that causes folliculitis, I am unaware of such test. If you have little red bumps, most likely it is folliculitis. I would treat your tub in the manner that Guzz stated in an earlier post. That should take care of the problem.
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Can't you have your water tested to determine if you have Psuedonamas? Are you the only person in the family who has this problem?
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Try buying a portable water softener filter comb that is sold in marine stores filling the tub, shock and use ezspa. good luck Stanley
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Ok my question is..my husband has now come up with a rash...his is the same...as you all have discribed but...my question is..how come I haven't gotten it yet..we both are in the same water..all levels are perfect and the water is only 2 weeks old. He started getting this rash just a day or two into the new water change but, I cleaned the hot tub really well before we put in the new water.
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Some people are more sensitive to it. Your husband may have it, yet you may never be affected. It's a bacteria that gets into your hair folicals so unless you have a hairy chest you should be o.k( I'm presuming you don't)
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Some people are more sensitive to it. Your husband may have it, yet you may never be affected. It's a bacteria that gets into your hair folicals so unless you have a hairy chest you should be o.k( I'm presuming you don't)
Guzz hun if I have a hary chest I'm in deeeeeep do do cause I am going to run away and join the circus....headlines "HAIRY WOMAN RUNS AWAY....HUSBAND DEVISTATED!"
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I'm sure you are a fine looking specimine but being an ex sailor I can assure you there are some really hairy girls out there!
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The important thing with Pseudonomas is making sure your Chlorine levels are at 5 ppm for a week straight. Something to think of is switching over to a non-chlorine system like Soft Soak or Baqua Spa. The chances of getting this nasty lil beast are less. Don't forget to wait til all of the bumps are gone before re-entering the spa or you are going to be more irritated! Good Luck!
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I can't imagine that Pseudomonas could survive at a level high enough to cause a problem after all the disinfection that you have done. Is it possible that you have developed a sensitivity to the chemicals that you are using? I am curious as to the cream that the doctor gave you. Is it a cream for an infection (like Bactroban)or a cortisone to keep you from reacting to what ever caused the irritation? I don't know how badly you want to know if, in fact you have a problem with Pseudomonas, but you could call your local health department and see if they will do a potable water test (like they do for wells). The only problem is that you need an inactivator for the chlorine or what ever sanitizer you are currently using. In my experience Pseudomonas is an opportunistic kind of critter that will cause secondary problems, for example infections in burn victims. Hope you get things straightened out.
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I was told to clean as you did and then fill the tub up with a hose (let the hose run for a few minutes as the bacteria may be in there). Super chlorinate (off the charts man) run the jets to mix it all up, turn the temp down to the lowest possible and let it sit for a week. Check the chlorine levels everyday to see if they are coming down rapidly (sure sign of the bug). If the levels stay up then drain away clean and refill as normal, if the levels drop fast then do it all over again.
Sounds extreme eh!, well I am not an expert but this is what I did and it worked for me. The bug likes hot water more than cold and it creates a slim buildup that normal doses of chlorine can't penetrate.
Hope that helped, I was back in the tub within a week.
Ray
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Just a little more good info on the subject...(I have also been through this hassle :()
http://www.spadepot.com/spacyclopedia/decontamination.htm
Cheers!
Steve
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maybee your rash has nothing to do with the hot tub. i cant imagine anyone taking less care of the water in their spa than me and all of my family has very sensitive skin, we havnt had any rash problems. i get really itchy on my legs and back if i go in a few times in a day. i talked to a friend of mine who is a dermatoligist and he said to use a lot of moisturizer.
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Use ECO ONE product. It solved ALL the problems associated with rashes and my wife is now back in the tub (which does not please my girlfriend) Its a good product.
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Want to share my "nightmare" story on this "condition"
I bot as Jacuzzi 375 in July. I used it for 6 weeks with no incidents--health problems. Using the Leisure Time system of chemicals---fill it up--Metal Gon---Defender--chlorine--renewz--balanced the PH--regularily--weekly
In August I contracted the dreaded "rash"----$500 worth of Dermatological bills--antibiotics and a near trip to the hospital--I am finally over it. I haven't been in my tub since September (I got back in it then and got infected again--causing my near hospital stay))
I have cleaned the thing out twice----over this period.
I am hoping now it's free of the "germ"---However, my dermatologist also thought I should investigate possible allergic reactions to the chemicals I'm using (see above list).
does anyone have any background on the Liesiure Time "system" chem line up and incidents of allergic reactions to any of them?
Finally---I had used a hot tub for many years without any incident prior to this new one I have now. However--in those days--all I ever did was balance the ph--keep it balanced--and used chloriine--never had used any of the other additives (metal gon--when filling---defender--every week---) Maybe I should just go back to simple chlorine and forget the other stuff in case it is/was a cause of my problem/s
Any input is appreciated.
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This question is for the people that have had to deal with this problem. I was wanting to know if you remember any incident that happen just prior to getting the bug? Sounds like getting rid of the bug is or would be harder that keeping it away in the first place. Just reflecting back to an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I know with working on computers when something starts going haywire, it normally is do to user doing or not doing something they were supposed to. Just wondering because when I finally get a tub I don't want me or the family to have to deal with the suffering it cause much less not being able to enjoy something you paid Thousands of dollars on.
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Having never had this problem in my 10 plus years of hot tub use----and not knowing about the "problem"----I had to learn the hard way.
The selling dealer---shold have prepped the tub---or maybe cautioned me on it's initial set up.----All they did was deliver itfill it--and chem it with the Liesure Time system.
And I used it with no problems for 6 weeks---THEN--my rash started. I didnt' wait long enough to "heal" before trying it again (and after a throough cleaning of the tub--filter etc.)
However---now having read further---II will clean it again--only with SUOER clhlorination (I don't think I chlorinated enough before)--for the prescribed full week.
As I haven't been in the thing for over two months--and have zero rash symptoms---HOPEFULLY--this time will be the charm---Otherwise--I intend to go to war with the dealer and--or Jacuzzi
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This question is for the people that have had to deal with this problem. I was wanting to know if you remember any incident that happen just prior to getting the bug? Sounds like getting rid of the bug is or would be harder that keeping it away in the first place.
First, you must understand "the bug" is bacteria and proper sanitation, or purification is essential. The condition is common only because we tend to neglect "proper procedures" of sanitizing the water on a regular and religious basis.
The purpose of Ozone, chlorine, bromine, BaquaSpa is to KILL bacteria and not allow it to live or exist in the Hot Tub environment.
Chemical sanitizers are quickly consumed by "what" is in the water and is not always present, thus you need to regularly test you water to become familiar with how it works. Once you have become familiar, you tend to better understand the how, when and why of what happens and what you see or smell in the water.
Good advice is very important and it is not necessary to become a water chemist. This should be simple once understood. Remember, your own NEGLECT is your enemy. Consult your dealer for his advice, if it is not available to you, bring your questions or do a search in this forum. You will get good direction.
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All I can say is that I've been a hot tub user for over ten years (Jacuzzi Quantum)----I did a "time out" for a couple (the Quantum was 20 years old--and it basically "quit")--but decided to take the plunge with a new Jacuzzi.
I NEVER had a problem in my Quantum--nor had I ever heard of this "bug". In my Quantum days---the only stuff I added (after PH balancing and regular checks on same)---was chlorine and shock.
I am wondering whether the Leisure time chemical array I'v used with this new one--is even necessary---and might even be a cause of my problem/s. The "Leisure Time system" which my dealer encouraged me to follow was up on fill up---X amount of Metal Gon---Defender--chlorine and "Renew" (and of course PH balancing)--then weekly additions of chlorine--Defender--and Renew----
I wonder how much good or exactly what the Metal Gon and the Defender are doing for my tub (and me). My Quantum lasted 20 years without them---and I'll take that longevity on this new 375----ANY DAY.
\Can you or anyone here comment on the advisability of the Metal Gon and Defender chemicals? (is this just another way for this company to sell more chemicals--that perhaps I don't REALLY need?)
Again--my Doc suggested I review EVERYTHING I'm putting in the tub. I'm going to go thru the full clean out procedure ONCE AGAIN---MAYBE--on my new fill up--I'll just blow off the Metal gon and Defender additives and go back to my tried and tested additives--the "basics" as I had used in my Quantum for all those years.
Any input is appreciated.
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I was also wondering if the persons dealing with this problem now were also using nature2 and or ozone and from the experts what they think in regards to any benefit using these as part of a complete sanitary system. I guess I am just wanting to make sure I do it right from the get go.
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MIne has the Ozonator installed I don't know what "Nature 2" is---what is it?
Is the Ozonator a potential problem?
Can anyone comment on the downside of NOT using the FULL Leisure Time program---(just going with chlorine and shock instead--and of course PH balancing)?
Is there a better chemical supplier to use?
etc etc
GREAT Forum here---I used it to select my tub in the first place----BUT--I'm obviously "spooked" on even getting in this thing---after a $7500 investment--and it's only 6 months old---the thought has occured to just sell the darn thing and forget about it (or ask Jacuzzi or the dealer for a buyback of some kind)
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N2 is the mineral stick you put into your filter area. It's my understanding that it;s filled with ceramic beads and silver ions. It is touted as enhancing your water and allowing you to use less dichlor. I was given one whith my new tub. It didn't cause any problems, but I didn't feel it was doing anything extraoridanary.
I just got off the phone with my dealer and placed a chemical order. She tried to get me buy another N2 stick, but i am going without one and see how it goes. I have yet to get a clear answer on if I do use the N2 stick, then how much do I reduce my chlorine?
I have good luck with the Dichlor (Spa 56) and the shock (Renew). I am shocking every 10 days, but my dealer also said I could go out further since I have the ozinator. They said 4 weeks, (that seems to long, I might try every other week).
The Defender product is to reduce stain and scale and is important for the heater elements. I use it every other week.
The Bright and Clear, I use very sparingly and maybe 1-2 a month, if that.
PH and AL are important. If this is out of balance your water can have a burning feel to the skin. You want to keep you PH and Alk in line.
I like the ozinator. It isn't causing any problems for me, and everything I read tells me it's significantly aiding in killing bateria. I use only 1/2 teaspoon of dichlor per person with great results. Others are using twice that amount.. YMMV.
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ahhhhh Psuedonomas. It's an interesting bacteria. It's estimated that 25% of the population are not only imune to it, bit carry it on their body as a part of the natural "flanue and flora" of their being.
blizzard makes a good point of the possibiliy of something "different" happening some time before the out break. I can't tell you how MANY time I"ve heard of similar and eventually the perrson remembers, "oh yeah, my daughted had a party a week earlier"...... or, well, my mother in law was in it, but it was only for a short period of time, and she's family.
Here's another sererio. Your chlorine levels are fine. Two people get in the spa and within 15 minutes the chlorine is down to zero. A third person gets in who IS infected. There's no sanitizer in the water and that person infects EVERYONE. You get out of the spa and dump in some chlorine. testing the water shows proper sanitizer levels then. "ok, so all's good", from what you can see. BUT, too late, you got infected and probably wont notice it for a day or so. And you'll SWEAR the water was and has always been properly sanitized. This is something that happens with some frequency.
Next problem........ If your spa is infected, it MAY not be as easy to get rid of as you think. A good size colony of Psuedonomas can form a globular mass hidden somewhere in the plumbing system. Massive amounts of chlorine may only kill the surface of this mass. The dead surface then protects the rest of the collony underneith.
The probelm needs to be NUKED (I'm off to go nuke someone's spa later today). Start with a flushing product. Something like Swirl Away or Spa System Flush. Follow the directions, but run the stuff through the spa for about twice as long as recommended. Then, supper shock the he11 out of the spa. 100 ppm of chlorine! And run the spa for about 3 hours with it. Be sure to open the air dials for a bit. Then turn OFF the pump for a bit (this allows the chlorine to get into the air piping. Run the air blower (if you have one) one for 15 minutes, off for 15 minutes, on, off, on, off.. gotta clean out the air blower piping.
After 3 hours, drain and rinse out the spa, refill it, and enjoy.
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Wow---this is great info---you sound like your in the business---
As the test strips I have don't detail the ppm on the chlorine
how much do you think I should use for this 480 gallon Jacuzzi to super nuke chlorinate it---for the 3 hour period?
Also---do I drain it first--then refill it and then do the "nuking"?
It's supposed to warm up to the 50's around here the next two days---it's my chance to try cleaning up this thing AGAIN--before the next cold blast hits next week--as it surely will this time of year.
Thanks again for the great reply
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Doc is ... Doc! He is in the business .
As long as your other parameters are OK - Throw in the chlorine. Leave it in as long as you can. The longer it's in and the more scrubbing the pumps do, the better the nuking will work.
When I first got my tub and reading all about stagnent water and the recycled water that's used by manufacturers, I nuked the tub as Doc said, put in a cup of dichlor overnight.
I didn't want to subject my family of possibly contracting anything, I figured what's 1 more day.
Good luck!
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This Question is in regards to the scenario brought up buy Dr. Spa. " Here's another scenario. Your chlorine levels are fine. Two people get in the spa and within 15 minutes the chlorine is down to zero. A third person gets in who IS infected. There's no sanitizer in the water and that person infects EVERYONE. You get out of the spa and dump in some chlorine. testing the water shows proper sanitizer levels then. "ok, so all's good", from what you can see. BUT, too late, you got infected and probably wont notice it for a day or so. And you'll SWEAR the water was and has always been properly sanitized. This is something that happens with some frequency. " Sorry I don't know how to bring up quotes of other people, but in regards to this scenario, what can be done to help protect the unaffected people without everybody lounging in super chlorinated water.
Blizzard
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Bromine or Baqua!
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Wow, I didn't know that someone could have Pseudomonas on their body and infect the spa. I always thought Pseudomonas was the result of bad water trapped in the plumbing.
Assuming you are sitting in water with very little sanitizer present, would ozone and N2 help at all?
ahhhhh Psuedonomas. It's an interesting bacteria. It's estimated that 25% of the population are not only imune to it, bit carry it on their body as a part of the natural "flanue and flora" of their being.
blizzard makes a good point of the possibiliy of something "different" happening some time before the out break. I can't tell you how MANY time I"ve heard of similar and eventually the perrson remembers, "oh yeah, my daughted had a party a week earlier"...... or, well, my mother in law was in it, but it was only for a short period of time, and she's family.
Here's another sererio. Your chlorine levels are fine. Two people get in the spa and within 15 minutes the chlorine is down to zero. A third person gets in who IS infected. There's no sanitizer in the water and that person infects EVERYONE. You get out of the spa and dump in some chlorine. testing the water shows proper sanitizer levels then. "ok, so all's good", from what you can see. BUT, too late, you got infected and probably wont notice it for a day or so. And you'll SWEAR the water was and has always been properly sanitized. This is something that happens with some frequency.