Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: st18901 on November 08, 2005, 07:44:14 pm
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Okay, since I had such a grrrreeat response on my other questions... :-/ I pose a new one.
I believe that I've determined which specific area my leak is from, unfortunately after opening up the non-leaking side. Such are the ways of water's travels.
Anyway,
Is there a way to tackle the leak from inside the tub ?
Since I belive it's at a jet, I'm hoping I can go from the inside.
Is this possible?
How does one replace a jet? (though that's not what I'm planning to do)
I await with bated breath.
In the meantime, for your moan and groan pleasure - A pic of where the leak is NOT...
(http://www.stefanavalos.com/noleakthere.jpg)
Once again I ask you knowledgable folk: what should I fill those holes with? Will the spray foam stuff you can buy at home depot work? Something else?
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Okay, since I had such a grrrreeat response on my other questions... :-/ I pose a new one.
I believe that I've determined which specific area my leak is from, unfortunately after opening up the non-leaking side. Such are the ways of water's travels.
Anyway,
Is there a way to tackle the leak from inside the tub ?
Since I belive it's at a jet, I'm hoping I can go from the inside.
Is this possible?
How does one replace a jet? (though that's not what I'm planning to do)
I await with bated breath.
In the meantime, for your moan and groan pleasure - A pic of where the leak is NOT...
(http://www.stefanavalos.com/noleakthere.jpg)
Once again I ask you knowledgable folk: what should I fill those holes with? Will the spray foam stuff you can buy at home depot work? Something else?
Ah, the joys of full foam! We all know that TP is better! ;D
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I'm really sorry you're not getting much help. :( I'm not the best person to try and help you fix the spa as I am technically ignorant. Chas could have you up and running in a heartbeat but I haven't seen him here lately. You might try sending him a private message.
I do think it is OK to just use the spray in foam in a can to patch up some of your digging. Be sure and take a look at the check valves as that is where I see most of the HotSpring leaks occuring. I wish you luck! :)
Terminator
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I do think it is OK to just use the spray in foam in a can to patch up some of your digging. Be sure and take a look at the check valves as that is where I see most of the HotSpring leaks occuring. I wish you luck! :)
Terminator
I'm more ignorant than most on re-foaming, (I did try to google it yesterday, afer seeing your post, and found zip. FWIW)
However, I'd be careful with using a foam spray a-la Home Depot ("Great Stuff"). This stuff expands several times it's original size and makes a mess.
I do remember reading in this forum, from an honest to goodness repair tech, that in the field they do use a product in a can, if it's the same as the expanding foam at the hardware store---hell, I haven't a clue.
Where the hell is Chas, and/or all the other repair techs?
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I emailed with a guy who has restored a bunch of tubs and he said he uses the great stuff. I saw a spray kit online, but they start at $200.00. Not what I had in mind.
I also have confirmed what I was hoping to avoid - that I do have to go in from the side to do the jet repair. Unless I find something I'm guessing I will have to replace the jet. Something I find peculiar is that according to everything I've been reading, this type of leak is caused by water freezing in the jets. In socal, it doesn't go down to those temps, so this was caused in another way.
I'm all ears in terms of the hows and whys of leaks.
Terminator, what exactly are the check valves ???
I will make sure to check them as soon as I know where to look.
Thanks
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The check valves are little dillyboppers that keep water flowing in one direction. They are clamped onto the water lines inside the equipment area. Sometimes the little black doohickey inside the clear plastic sticks and causes the water to back up and cause leaks. They are the little 2 inch diddlydoos connected onto the water lines.
Hope this helps. :)
Terminator
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The check valves are little dillyboppers that keep water flowing in one direction. They are clamped onto the water lines inside the equipment area. Sometimes the little black doohickey inside the clear plastic sticks and causes the water to back up and cause leaks. They are the little 2 inch diddlydoos connected onto the water lines.
Hope this helps. :)
Terminator
Can you please dummy that up for the neophytes so they can follow it. ;)
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I certainly don't want any leaking diddlydoos in MY hot tub.
:o
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You definately do not. It sounds like you are getting sound advice and if followed, this minor speed bump should be behind you soon.
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Thats what you get for buying a Hot Springs Hot tub!!
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Uh, he took on a project tub that is nearly 20 years old if I remember correctly. Doubt too many other brands would be running at all.
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Thats what you get for buying a Hot Springs Hot tub!!
I'd say it's more of what you may run into when you buy a used spa. When you buy new you get a warranty and a dealer to take care of things (assuming you guy locally). Getting a used spa or buying a spa off the internet can work well (it does save $) as long as you're handy as you end up being your own service person.
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Getting up to speed on the how's where's and why's of hot tubs... eh, no biggie. Especially with this forum. :)
Compared to some of the British sports cars I worked on back in my teens... Now THOSE were an excercise in frustration.
Thus far the costs have been the uhaul truck, the pizza and beer for my friends when we moved it, a pump rebuild kit and whatever this upcoming problem is (I'm guessing under 40 dollars).
After resealing it, etc. I shouldn't be in any deeper than 150 dollars, as the tub itself was free. Electrical work to the backyard not included - that's about 75.00 additional.
Overall, I'm not groaning at the price quite yet... and I'm hoping the back aches from moving the darn thing are worked out by the hot bubbly goodness that it should hopefully be soon providing...
Let's hope these aren't famous last words.
Keep cheering me on.
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I also see these kind of projects as fun. Some of the stuff I have worked on and tore apart and fixed in the last 20-30 years make hot tubs seem like very very simple stuff. I have picked up and repaired and used 3 used tubs for myself and a couple for friends. Some FF and some TP and that never seemed to matter as far as ease of repair (most of the repair is in the equipment area) I guess I would say TP is a bit easier to repair but I find crawling on my back locating lines and working on them, reaching in at odd ball angles to be more difficult. At grainger they have a 2 part foam kit available non expanding medium density that works great 1 kit will do........something like 5 SF (can't remember) I can look you up the part number if you would like. I believe it is rather expensive though like 90 bucks a kit. The last tub I tryed to help a friend with was an old TP style can't remember the name some goofy one. When we tipped it up on it's side (makes working on them easy) it fell apart. It was something like 20 years old. If it's any consolation a FF tub would hold together better when you tip them up to work on them!!
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The check valves are little dillyboppers that keep water flowing in one direction. They are clamped onto the water lines inside the equipment area. Sometimes the little black doohickey inside the clear plastic sticks and causes the water to back up and cause leaks. They are the little 2 inch diddlydoos connected onto the water lines.
Hope this helps. :)
Terminator
And I thought you said that you weren't a tech ;D Your talents are amazing.
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Thats what you get for buying a Hot Springs Hot tub!!
Ok, your one step from being banned, would you care to explain how your success with one particular brand gives you the knowledge to bash a top brand?
If you think I'm not being fair, here is the door.
(http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/153/994837_b.jpg)
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And I thought you said that you weren't a tech ;D Your talents are amazing.
I just bluff my way by using big technical words. It sounds impressive when I use tech jargon! :D
Terminator
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Thats what you get for buying a Hot Springs Hot tub!!
Yep, that's what he gets by purchasing a quality used product that even though it's older than dirt is probably still light years ahead of the generic kit spa you overpaid for. ;D Check back in 15 years and let us know how your spa's doing.
Terminator
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This site is geared to help people. When certain users take there privillage and abuse it by making uninformed and unjustified blanket statement it makes it more difficult to get the proper information out. I have only been on this site a short while, but, it didn't take too long to figure out who's responses are worth reading.
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In taking this HS tub apart, the one thing I have been very impressed by is the construction. I was dreading/expecting (maybe from those British Sports Car days, and some house restoration I've done) that it would be a rotted mess. But no; though it shows signs of age, overall the condition of the tub and the components is quite amazing.
Also, when we moved it, we tipped it this way and that - it is very very solid.
The only part I find a bit beaten up is the equipment area panel, and that's easily remedied by either shifting the screws or cutting a new piece of plywood and attaching the redwood slats to it.
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Just from my experience, your so called "top brand" is overpriced for what they are offering.If that would make you happy banding me fine, i don't think i am out of order nor have i been voguer in anyway.In todays markets 12k for a product that has a mark up higher than jewelry is insane. I shopped all the products that are mentioned in this forum and in my opinion spas direct makes a superior product. Oh and by the way i am a PE, So i know a thing or 2 about almost everything structurally ,mechanically ,electrically..And one other thing i am very very cheap with a dollar and for me to even spend 8k was a killer. Again please accept my apology if i offended anyone in this forum. Regards Stanley
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Just from my experience
Well then, from my experience I would not buy a spa on-line as you have done (and i've seen MANY come to regret that type of price based decision). I guess our spa experieince and opinions differ.
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For the people that couldn’t understand what Stan wrote I have fixed the spelling errors in his previous post. I could fix the grammatical errors also, but that takes a lot longer in Word.
Just from my experience, your so-called "top brand" is overpriced for what they are offering. If that would make you happy banning me fine, I don't think I am out of order nor have I been vulgar in anyway. In today’s markets 12k for a product that has a mark up higher than jewelry is insane. I shopped all the products that are mentioned in this forum and in my opinion Spas Direct makes a superior product. Oh and by the way I am a PE, so I know a thing or 2 about almost everything structurally, mechanically, electrically. And one other thing I am very very cheap with a dollar and for me to even spend 8k was a killer. Again please accept my apology if I offended anyone in this forum. Regards Stanley
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Chris’ response to Stan is as follows:
Stan the Man wrote: “Just from my experience, your so-called "top brand" is overpriced for what they are offering. “
What is your experience in portable spas?
Stan the Man wrote: “If that would make you happy banning me fine, I don't think I am out of order nor have I been vague in anyway.”
Bill’s call not mine. I could care less if you were here. There is only one person I don’t want on this forum and you are not it.
Stan the Man wrote: “In today’s markets 12k for a product that has a mark up higher than jewelry is insane.”
First of all, the average spa is not $12,000. I would guess the average 6-person spa from Hotspring is between $7,000 and $8,000. I do not know the mark-up on jewelry so I cannot comment.
Stan the Man wrote: “I shopped all the products that are mentioned in this forum and in my opinion Spas Direct makes a superior product.”
Your opinion is welcome. I will tell you the majority of regulars (whom I would consider experts even if they are from Texas and California) on this forum would not consider selling the ‘Spas Direct’ brand in thier stores. That should enlighten you about the quality of the ‘Spas Direct’ product.
Stan the Man wrote: “Oh and by the way I am a PE, so I know a thing or 2 about almost everything structurally, mechanically, electrically.”
Thank you for your resume. The regulars on this forum know much more than you about spas specifically their structure, mechanics, and electronics. The brand that you have purchased, in our opinion, does not have superior structure, mechanics, and electronics.
Stan the Man wrote: “And one other thing I am very very cheap”
Thanks for telling us about yourself.
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I think "voguer" was meant to be "vulgar."
He did apologize and I forgive him.
Terminator
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Here I go, Hijacking my thread back again. ;D
I found the crack. There was no mistaking it. It goes almost completely around the pipe!
(http://www.stefanavalos.com/crackpipe.jpg)
I think that the FF actually is the only thing that kept this crack from not seeming worse than it really was. In a way, I think that were it not for the foam, the old owner might not have gotten rid of the tub because the pipe would have had a total failure and been replaced.
So, as of now - I like FF! :)
I'm going to try to fix the crack with a combo of pvc sealer and epoxy. Fingers crossed, that will work. If not, I'm going to have to replace the jet - which would suck.
So - question is - do you have any recommendations for expoxies, etc. that can withstand the pressure and heat of this situation?
Have any of you heard of plast-aid? http://www.plast-aid.com/
How do you like jb wet weld?
Anything else?
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Just from my experience, your so called "top brand" is overpriced for what they are offering. And one other thing i am very very cheap with a dollar and for me to even spend 8k was a killer. Regards Stanley
(http://www.spas-direct.com/Factory_photo_3.jpg)
Anyone want to give any guesses on what this will look like in 15 years? Or care to estimate a power consumption comarisom? Nevermind,.. youre comparing apples and oranges.
As for the original inquiry of this post: a few answers and a couple of tips.
Is there a way to tackle the leak from inside the tub ?
Not with these wallfittings, and jet inserts. If thats where your leak is coming from.
Since I belive it's at a jet, I'm hoping I can go from the inside.
Is this possible?
No, if your leak is from the underside of the wallfitting a foam dig would be required.
How does one replace a jet?
The wallfitting may only require a new gasket- but the wallfitting is threaded and will require a special wrench used inside the shell.
Your main focus should be on narrowing down the location of your leaks origin. Ideally, your spa should be filled while raised on piers or jackstands so you can observe water transfer. Once you have isolated the origin you can mark out your foam dig location, drain the spa and work on the spa while its on its side. Use duct tape to cover the edges of the 60# foam (the hard stuff). Follow the moist foam to your leak origin. Replace foam with a binary expanding foam like Handi-foam.
Good luck.
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st18901, just out of curiosity, how many days or weeks did it take you to find that leak in the full foam spa? From my understanding, some folks claim it could take several years to find it and cost thousands of dollars. Is this true?
Terminator
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(http://www.spas-direct.com/Factory_photo_3.jpg)
Cool! It looks like the queen alien's nest from Alien where all the humans were catacombed. "Newt! Newt! Where are you! Leave her alone, you bitty!"
Terminator
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st18901,
Rather than epoxy or something along those lines, how about a compression fitting for leaky pipes? The kind of thing I'm thinking about I've seen at Lowe's or Home Depot. It's a piece of thick rubber that wraps around the pipe and two stainless steel hose clamps on each side to clamp it tight.
I looked for a picture online but couldn't come up with anything.
Phil
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Oh and by the way i am a PE,
That's what you get for becoming a PE.
You become a Pain in the Ess.
You should SUAGA, I will explain if asked!!
Rayman
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How long did it take me to find the leak?
About half an hour of deduction, and twenty minutes of digging.
When I fix this leak and test the tub - if I find no other leaks, I'll have to say it was a cinch. I'm just hoping I don't find another leak.
I will be spending a bit of time at Lowes, looking for any possible thing that could work. If I have to replace the jet, I'll do it, but I sure hope I can avoid that.
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How long did it take me to find the leak?
About half an hour of deduction, and twenty minutes of digging.
When I fix this leak and test the tub - if I find no other leaks, I'll have to say it was a cinch. I'm just hoping I don't find another leak.
I will be spending a bit of time at Lowes, looking for any possible thing that could work. If I have to replace the jet, I'll do it, but I sure hope I can avoid that.
Thermal Pain Guy- "You don't want a full foam spa as it will take days to find the leak and thousands of dollars to repair...and...and...and...and it will take days to find and thousands of dollars to repair. Thermal Pain may leak like a sieve but it can be repaired in just a few minutes every time, however many times that may be."
;D ;D ;D
Terminator
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ST,
How close is it to the jet? Is there any way to just saw off the cracked section and splice it with a PVC union and cement?
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It's pretty darn close to the jet. (1/4 inch maybe)
Here's a repost of the pic. I'm pointing at the crack -
(http://www.stefanavalos.com/crackpipe.jpg)
The proximity to the jet is the reason that I think the only thing that can work, in lieu of replacement, is epoxy.
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It's pretty darn close to the jet. (1/4 inch maybe)
Here's a repost of the pic. I'm pointing at the crack -
[
The proximity to the jet is the reason that I think the only thing that can work, in lieu of replacement, is epoxy.
Do yourself a BIG favor. Whatever fix you go with, run the spa for a few days that way to make sure you REALLY have a proper seal before you refoam and button it back up.
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How long did it take me to find the leak?
About half an hour of deduction, and twenty minutes of digging.
When I fix this leak and test the tub - if I find no other leaks, I'll have to say it was a cinch. I'm just hoping I don't find another leak.
I will be spending a bit of time at Lowes, looking for any possible thing that could work. If I have to replace the jet, I'll do it, but I sure hope I can avoid that.
If I am not mistaken, this was your first spa fix. Just think if you were a technician and had some expirience...
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If I am not mistaken, this was your first spa fix. Just think if you were a technician and had some expirience...
Yeah, and getting paid by the hour. Then how long do you think it would of taken?
Terminator
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Did I say twenty minutes? I meant four hours. ;D
Spatech, you betcha. I'm going to run that thing for a good long time - real hot too. Even though this hasn't been the worst job in the world, I don't really want to have to go in again. The biggest nuisance really has been moving the tub away from a wall that (of course) the problem side was close to -- though the rolling it on dowel rods worked like a charm.
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Chris wrote:Thank you for your resume. The regulars on this forum know much more than you about SPAS specifically their structure, mechanics, and electronics. The brand that you have purchased, in our opinion, does not have superior structure, mechanics, and electronics. Chris thank you for you kind comments. It seems i am out numbered and it is quite clear who is sponsoring this so called forum.I said what i wanted to voiced my opinion about the hot tub that i own. I Will not make anymore post on this forum. Good luck to most of the nice people on this forum and God Bless you all. Stan
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Stan,
I agree that HotSpring is typically a bit overpriced but just throwing an attacking comment out there got you just what you it should have. If you want to turn tail and run away with another jab about sponsorship that's fine also but we would prefer you offer your input with some justification added to it. My guess would be that you couldn't beat the price that st18901 paid for that spa if you tried (he got it used).
Your opinions are as welcome as anyone here but have some class.
st,
I don't know if you have some flex room in there but I've used a short coupler and glued it over the crack in the past. It worked great, the secret is the make sure you have everything clean and use a good primer.
I just use "Great Stuff" foam that you can get at just about any hardware store for small repairs.
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Chris wrote:Thank you for your resume. The regulars on this forum know much more than you about SPAS specifically their structure, mechanics, and electronics. The brand that you have purchased, in our opinion, does not have superior structure, mechanics, and electronics. Chris thank you for you kind comments. It seems i am out numbered and it is quite clear who is sponsoring this so called forum.I said what i wanted to voiced my opinion about the hot tub that i own. I Will not make anymore post on this forum. Good luck to most of the nice people on this forum and God Bless you all. Stan
Yikes :o suddenly this crazy Eminem song is playing through my head!! (Just Kidding Stan ;)) Seriously, though, this forum has lots of great info; has helped me a LOT. I see no hidden agenda by any single manufacturer, and when someone gets too pushy with their personal fave, they are quickly subdued!! A little verbal sparring occurs here and there, but it is typically in good fun. If you hang around for a bit, there is lots to learn, and differing opinions are valued here. The key is to avoid major blanket statements like your earlier comment on this thread. A number of people have purchased low to mid-range spas and have actually gotten supportive and helpful comments from others...
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Stan,
I agree that HotSpring is typically a bit overpriced but just throwing an attacking comment out there got you just what you it should have. If you want to turn tail and run away with another jab about sponsorship that's fine also but we would prefer you offer your input with some justification added to it. My guess would be that you couldn't beat the price that st18901 paid for that spa if you tried (he got it used).
Your opinions are as welcome as anyone here but have some class.
.
Yea, what he said, thanksf or saving me the trouble.
What'ya think Maninng vs Manning in the Superbowl?
Now, to find out how guest posting got enabled again.
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I can get any oem part you need for the spa.
Call-1860-585-5977 Our store, 23 year hotspring dealer. or pm me.
Will prefer you accompany a serial#, found in the equipment compartment, or filter compartment. sometimes it was additional written in marker on the hinged side of the equipment door.
Serial# would be I-19454, H-21467, etc.
Do you have a motomassage?
I wouldn't suggest a patch. Replace the jet body and some pipe.
Let me know if I can help.
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st18901, sorry nobody has been of much help until the recent posts by stuart and hottub.pool_boy but take their advice and add this, 1) cut a similar size of pvc in half on a table saw making two pieces to "saddle" the crack, 2) take a sand paper belt from a belt sander and cut it in half and cut it open into one long piece to sand the cracked pvc clean, 3) use pvc primer to soften and clean the patch area, 4) apply the two pvc pieces previously cut in half to "saddle" the crack, 5) use a stainless steele hose strap that you use the screw to tighten or compress the "saddle" repair to the cracked pipe, 6) if you have a heat gun available apply heat to the pvc "saddle" patch so it will soften and compress tightly to the cracked pipe.
Check for success in a couple of days and pick up some spray foam to refoam. If you need some PM me and I will fill you in more.
I sell quality spas and I have been there before as many others have. I am surprised that so many here have been in this industry as long as they have and don't know how to help you better. They have all been down this road before, unless of course they are "just" sales people. ;)
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It's pretty darn close to the jet. (1/4 inch maybe)
Here's a repost of the pic. I'm pointing at the crack -
(http://www.stefanavalos.com/crackpipe.jpg)
The proximity to the jet is the reason that I think the only thing that can work, in lieu of replacement, is epoxy.
I would use an inside coupler and be done with it!
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the crack is to close to the jet body - about 1/4 inch - not enough to attach anything.
I have epoxied the entire thing, so once I get the pump rebuilt (hopefully tomorrow or day after the parts will arrive), I'll test it. If it leaks, I'm replacing all of it.