Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Orthofunk on October 07, 2005, 10:19:48 pm
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I have had my Maxxus for only 3 months.
Tonite, I notice that the readout is flashing "FLO", and the heater won't kick on. I look at the filter, and it looks like it is caving in on itself... like its clogged.
The dealer told me these filters only get replaced once a year. Do I need a new one already?
Thanks
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sounds like it
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I've had to replace mine in my Majesta. Dealer said there was a problem with the manufacturing. Just get a hold of your dealer and let them know you're bringing in one that's collapsed inward and he/she should have a replacement to give you. My dealer gave me a new one and said that's why they have a warranty. paul
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My '05 maxxus is going on 6 months & I have not had any problems W/ my filter. My dealer told me that the filter was good for only 6 months. How long are they rated for? (based on average usage). On another note I finally received my steps & the color match & quality is very good.
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My '05 maxxus is going on 6 months & I have not had any problems W/ my filter. My dealer told me that the filter was good for only 6 months. How long are they rated for? (based on average usage). On another note I finally received my steps & the color match & quality is very good.
The filters are not rated for any length of time. The Microclean II filters are generally supposed to last about 6 months, but it depends on the amount of use the spa gets. The more use the more replacing. If it was my spa, I would replace it about every 4 months when the spa gets drained. I have not read or heard anything that would tell me the filters are supposed to last a whole year.
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OMG, a hundred bucks every 4 months for a filter, I don't spend that much on vehicle maintinence! (gas not included) When I was working in our Sundance store, before the Caldera store was fully operational, the customers were told these filters needed no cleaning and only needed replaced 1 x per year. Well, now I guess there's more bull $#(^ to wade through! Funky_K, try rinsing the thing off, it MIGHT help, I know they aren't designed to be cleaned but it cant hurt to try.
The filters are not rated for any length of time. The Microclean II filters are generally supposed to last about 6 months, but it depends on the amount of use the spa gets. The more use the more replacing. If it was my spa, I would replace it about every 4 months when the spa gets drained. I have not read or heard anything that would tell me the filters are supposed to last a whole year.
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If your dealership is charging $100 bucks that seems to be a little high to me. They should cost at most $75 bucks.
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How do you figure?
If your dealership is charging $100 bucks that seems to be a little high to me. They should cost at most $75 bucks.
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I am going to change my opinion. I think $80 would be a fair price and give the dealer a very fair margin. At $100, I think the margin is pretty high.
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I just paid $95 for my filter I hope its good for 6 months.
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My expectation is 9 months of life in the filter. Can't say based on the first two if that happens. Initial use of the tub was probably three times a day. Averaging just over once a day now and I expect that will stay about the same but going to just under once a day when the teeth of winter sets in.
I imagine lots depends on environmental factors (debris in the air like leaves, bugs, hairs that get in to the tub when using/cleaning). I was told 9 months was a decent expectation so I budgeted for two a year so I have the cash flow. Did the same with chemical usage suggestions as well. I'll know the real numbers next year. If I haven't spent the allotted budget then I'll spring for a rubber duck. Can't find a Fighting Irish one though. paul
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We charge 95, for the sake of the forum, I round the nimbers, none-the-less $95 is the right price for the filter.
I am going to change my opinion. I think $80 would be a fair price and give the dealer a very fair margin. At $100, I think the margin is pretty high.
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Feel free to think what you wish, but this is specialty retail, not wall, K or what ever other mart you can think of.
I am going to change my opinion. I think $80 would be a fair price and give the dealer a very fair margin. At $100, I think the margin is pretty high.
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I'm 4 months into my Optima "maintenance free" filter, no problems yet. With the tub indoors, and light to moderate use, the filter still looks brand new to me.
Since I plan on changing my water this month, I was thinking that it would have been nice for Sundance to de-engineer the filter (with a reduction in replacement cost), so that it would be replaced when the water was changed.
Sundance does offer a optional washable filter for the Optima (Maxxus too?) That one cost around $60. I have one on stand-by, just in case.
I could see in certain, extreme conditions, the washable filter would be the only economical option.
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The MicroClean II filters are good for two cycles of water. The typical cycle of water is 3-6 months.
And Wisoki is correct about the price.
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That seems like a large expense for filters only $200-$400 per year. The washable type seems like a better value, $60 and it will last for a few yrs.
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The Microclean 2 filters are hands down the best in the next generation of filters. The replacement filter does cost a hundred bucks no matter how you slice it but its like changing the oil on a lexus-its not like a ford...but the water quality is unmatched in the biz. I've had these filters last anywhere between 4 and 8 months thus far, it comes down to usage.
The bright side to this type against the old style, pleated filters are:
micron filtration levels
no need for water clarifier, filter degreaser chems
less time spent draining and refilling
reduces water line rings by soaking up body oils
owner friendly to take out and replace
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The Microclean 2 filters are hands down the best in the next generation of filters. The replacement filter does cost a hundred bucks no matter how you slice it but its like changing the oil on a lexus-its not like a ford...but the water quality is unmatched in the biz. I've had these filters last anywhere between 4 and 8 months thus far, it comes down to usage.
The bright side to this type against the old style, pleated filters are:
micron filtration levels
no need for water clarifier, filter degreaser chems
less time spent draining and refilling
reduces water line rings by soaking up body oils
owner friendly to take out and replace
Oil cost the same for a Ford or Lexus, just paying for the service I guess. $200-$300 per year for filters only, not chems or anything else, and some Hot Tubs owners are concerned about a $50.00 service call......??
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I am going to change my opinion. I think $80 would be a fair price and give the dealer a very fair margin. At $100, I think the margin is pretty high.
How can you determine what is a "fair" price when all situations are different.
We happen to charge $80 for the filter, but I also know the cost and it should be higher. It is just like other "special filters" that the dealer's charge for, some charge more, some charge less.
The filter is expected to "filter" dirt from the water which is unpredictable as to what is in the water. Well water binds the filters up faster because of the heavy mineral content. The more the spa is used, the more dirt is filtered out and the shorter life of the filter.
Initially, we were told the filter would be changed out after 9 months to a year. When we were told the cost of replacments, our suggestions were to make a plastic part that the filter could "sleeve" over making it less costly to replace, but that wasn't in the plan.
We have had filters collapse in as short as two months and it was on well water. Others have collapsed in 4 to 6 months, much to our disappointment. For this reason we try to maintain a lower cost, but $95 would be in line.
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I called the dealer today...
they said bring the filter in and we will replace it... no charge.
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The bright side to this type against the old style, pleated filters are:
micron filtration levels
no need for water clarifier, filter degreaser chems
less time spent draining and refilling
reduces water line rings by soaking up body oils
owner friendly to take out and replace
I need some clarification on this....
If your getting micron filtration and soaking up more body oils then won't it need to be cleaned more often?
Doesn't cleaning also wear the filter down?
Can you even clean those filters?
IMO, if you decrease the flow with less microns then you are susceptible to the filter collapsing or bypassing more water to keep from starving the pump. I would think these filters would actually cause more water quality issues and pump failures in the long haul if you don't change them often…then you run into a cost issue.
Do they truly absorb more oil? If so, how? Wouldn’t that also cause the filter to implode?
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The problem I see with the filter is that it pulls through the micron end of the filter when circulating, and the other end when the jet pumps are on. So while you are in the tub with the jet pumps on which is when the body oils are really flowing, it isnt really filtereing any better than any other filter. When it is circulating, (24/7) it is pulling only from the little tiny micron filter, which is alot smaller than a standard filter. I would assume that would be why you would need to replace it alot, which could obviously get costly.
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Wrong filter, thats the 65 sq. ft. filter with the 1 micron on the other end. The filter being talked about here is the 5 micron pleated filter with the blue plastic mesh.
The problem I see with the filter is that it pulls through the micron end of the filter when circulating, and the other end when the jet pumps are on. So while you are in the tub with the jet pumps on which is when the body oils are really flowing, it isnt really filtereing any better than any other filter. When it is circulating, (24/7) it is pulling only from the little tiny micron filter, which is alot smaller than a standard filter. I would assume that would be why you would need to replace it alot, which could obviously get costly.
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I see. Is that what comes standard on a maxxus? Is it blue for a reason?
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Nope, I think they just think the blue plastic mesh is pretty.
I see. Is that what comes standard on a maxxus? Is it blue for a reason?
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Hey Gang,
Just curious, what has everyone found to be the case, if Baqua Spa is used in a tub with the Sundance MicroClean II Filters. Can it be used or does it clog those filters up? As an Artesian Dealer, I am curious, because Artesian is introducing in January 2006, a filter just like the Sundance filter. We are being told to replace it on average every 6 months. On a spa equipped with 3 filters, only the filter for the circ pump will have the new technology, so one 50 sq. ft filter will need repacing every 6 months. Retail cost should not bring too many compalints at $34.95. Dave.
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The Microclean 2 filters are hands down the best in the next generation of filters.
And out of curiousity, what qualifies that statement? If you're talking microns, it's not going to cut it. The micropure.ca filter is rated to 1. The SD is rated at 5. If you really want to quibble about a number I'd take the one going to 1. They're also 1/3 or less the cost of the SD filter. They're also equivalent to 900sq ft of filtering ;D ;D ;D ;D (for the guys who love that number)
The local SD dealer about lost their mind when I listened to their sales pitch and informed them a competing brand hit 1 micron. But they were using the micron number to justify their filter as the "best". Nothing against SD. I actually liked the Optima a lot.
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I just love it when the marketing people and the engineers get together for lunch!
What's next, zero micron filtration?
Anything to boast about in a brochure, I guess!
Maybe the next generation of filters will be so tight that they actually seperate the hydrogen atom from the oxygen atom, thus producing fuel that can be burned to heat the spa. ;)
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Anything to boast about in a brochure, I guess!
;)
Yep. If the majority of people don't wet test, you better have something in your brochure that differentiates what you have from the competition outside of how the spa actually feels when wet.
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"The Microclean 2 filters are hands down the best in the next generation of filters. "
Its not so much the actual filter, but more the way it is plumbed. It has eliminated the need for filter cycles. There is now no reason to run the main pumps other than to flush out the piples or to enjoy the spa.
On a Maxxus, the number of gallons in the spa (I hesitate to say the full body of water because there could always be parts of the water that don't get filtered) is filtered 88 times per day, without ever turning the main pumps on. Is there any other tub on the market that can move 50,000 gallons of water a day without turning on their main pump?
With this setup, Sundance has eliminated the compromise between filtration and performance. (No, I did not read that out of a brochure :P )
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(No, I did not read that out of a brochure :P )
Then perhaps the sales manual?
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I couldn't find it in the sales manual. I probably overheard the rep saying it and it stuck in my head.
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This has nothing to do with the filter, but should be acreddited to the enhanced circulation pump they are utilizing. It is also being used in the Cameo and Optima, the rest of their spas that have circ pumps use the standard Laing Circulation pump.
"The Microclean 2 filters are hands down the best in the next generation of filters. "
Its not so much the actual filter, but more the way it is plumbed. It has eliminated the need for filter cycles. There is now no reason to run the main pumps other than to flush out the piples or to enjoy the spa.
On a Maxxus, the number of gallons in the spa (I hesitate to say the full body of water because there could always be parts of the water that don't get filtered) is filtered 88 times per day, without ever turning the main pumps on. Is there any other tub on the market that can move 50,000 gallons of water a day without turning on their main pump?
With this setup, Sundance has eliminated the compromise between filtration and performance. (No, I did not read that out of a brochure :P )
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If you're talking microns, it's not going to cut it. The micropure.ca filter is rated to 1. The SD is rated at 5. If you really want to quibble about a number I'd take the one going to 1.
Actually the Sundance MicroClean I filters down to 1 micron. It was introduced in 2002, long before the Arctic used the micropure filter and is still used in many of the SD models.
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That's only on the two stage filter with the standard 65 sq. ft. filter on one end and the 1 micron filter on the other. The new blue filters are 5 micron, or so they say, it tooks like a standard filter with blue mesh to me.
Actually the Sundance MicroClean I filters down to 1 micron. It was introduced in 2002, long before the Arctic used the micropure filter and is still used in many of the SD models.
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You know, what does it all matter anyway when there are by-pass valves involved?
If the customers are happy with the disposable filter, more power to them. If it helps Sundance make more money, more power to them.
Terminator
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You know, what does it all matter anyway when there are by-pass valves involved?
If the customers are happy with the disposable filter, more power to them. If it helps Sundance make more money, more power to them.
Terminator
Agreed, Centurion! Well said...
SB
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Actually the Sundance MicroClean I filters down to 1 micron. It was introduced in 2002, long before the Arctic used the micropure filter and is still used in many of the SD models.
Actually, the claim was regarding the MicroClean II. Remember the quote from SD "The Microclean 2 filters are hands down the best in the next generation of filters. "
Now from the website.......
MicroClean™ II Filter
(880 Series spas)
• Micro-fine polypropylene retains
particles as small as 5 microns,
absorbs oils
and as stated before, the local SD dealer used the microns for justifying it's "bestness" and lost it when I mentioned the micropure.ca filter that Arctic uses. In reality, it probably matters none. But the claim based on that attribute is incorrect.
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"You know, what does it all matter anyway when there are by-pass valves involved? "
There are no bypasses on the Sundance filtration system. It is totally separate from the main pump systems.
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"You know, what does it all matter anyway when there are by-pass valves involved? "
There are no bypasses on the Sundance filtration system. It is totally separate from the main pump systems.
Really, I didn't know that. I looked at a Maxxus at the state fair last week and there were all these little suction fittings around the bottom of the spa, 4 or 5 of them. What are those? The salesman I talked to said they were "safety features." Are they?
Terminator
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Those are suctions for the main pumps. They are in no way tied to the filtering system.
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Good thread, since I've been wondering about the Max's filter, also!
Reading all of this, this may be a stupid question: I assume we have to get these from the SD dealer? I couldn't find anything on the filter like a part number to look it up elsewhere.
And, I saw that comment about not needing clarifiers, etc. Does that mean some of the 'recommended' weekly treatments in the Leisure Time book aren't needed with this filter? (I don't want to be clogging it up faster than normal at $90 +/- a pop! :) ).
BTW, the manual and the initial setting for the 'check filter' timer are 4 months (120 days).
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"BTW, the manual and the initial setting for the 'check filter' timer are 4 months (120 days). "
We normally just turn that off. There are better ways to determine when you need to change your filter rather than some arbitrary time limit.
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Oh, sure, I was just saying what SD thought was 'a good choice' for new owners. (FWIW...)
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I guarantee you that SD has a check on the Aqua Flow pump. You can't risk the depth filter clogging and reducing flow to the high flow circ too long. Sundance has created a nice marketing story. Unfortunately for the dealers they have to decide whether they charge normal retail ($120) for the filter, or eat profit to keep customers from freaking out about the replacement costs. What micron can the human eye detect anyway?
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Oh and 50 microns is the smallest detectable by the human eye. Not to say that having smaller micron filtration would not be better. How fine do we need to filter? Is it worth the cost? What are the drawbacks if the filter is not replaced when saturation point is reached? I have a feeling that this filter's design will be revisited fairly soon.
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"I guarantee you that SD has a check on the Aqua Flow pump. "
You have seen a bypass valve on the circulation system?
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Generally UL requires some type of balance in flow/filtration when filters becomes clogged, if not damage to pump can occur. If there were no check just in case of clogging I would be surprised. However, as long as the filters were allowing sufficient water to pass it would never need bypassing. Have not actually "seen" check but if filters were left without occasional cleaning or replacement what would happen to pump.
You may be correct in that they only use flow switch to read water flow and customers will just get frequent flo error message telling them filters need replacing. my concern would be large volume of water 50,000 a day through very fine filters. GE depth home filters (7 sq. ft) are tested to handle 600 gallons before replacement. SD should have gallon handling capacity keeping in mind extra gallons should be obtained because water is not being injested.
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I may be wrong as I am just speculating, but I think that UL requires there be a bypass on the main pumps. With the Sundance filter, the filtration pump is totally separate from the main pumps. The main pumps have bypasses.
Since we have been selling spas with a microclean II, we haven't had a flo error that wasn't either a bad microclean II (we had 1 that collapsed) or customer error (they ended up with biofilm, clogged the filter). I guess only time will tell as they have been on the tubs for less than a year.
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So when you kick the pumps on high and you all of a sudden get a bunch more water swooping into the filter housing, how is that happening? Does turning the jets on high make the circulation pump move mre water?
Those are suctions for the main pumps. They are in no way tied to the filtering system.
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My question also! Because every time you turn a jet pump on, you can see a lot more water being drawn to the wier and the filter!
In any case, no one knows how to get these SD filters except from SD? And, no definitely answer on what treatments to use? I was using Vermonter's dichlor and otherwise, following Leisure Time, but if I don't need enzyme/clarifier whatever, be good to know!
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Wisoki, you are correct. I messed up in explaining the system and in the process provided some false information.
The main pump will also draw water through the filter. The circulation pump ONLY draws through the filter. There is no bypass in the circulation system. I tested this right now.
The main pump will push water through the circulation system.
With 2 plugs in the circulation system (indicating a fully clogged filter) no water goes through the circlation system. Therefore the circulation pump does not bypass the filter.
Thank you for pointing out the error, as I would not want to mislead anyone.
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Oh and 50 microns is the smallest detectable by the human eye. Not to say that having smaller micron filtration would not be better. How fine do we need to filter? Is it worth the cost? What are the drawbacks if the filter is not replaced when saturation point is reached? I have a feeling that this filter's design will be revisited fairly soon.
Take this with a grain of salt since it's from micropure.ca's website, but I'd say eliminating particles under 50 microns might be nice. (I question the virus size) It's not a reason to buy a particular brand but I'm guessing you could argue it's a benefit. There's a cost associated with that benefit and that's the other consideration. The cost for the Sundance filter happens to be significantly higher than the micropure.ca filter, but should last longer based on Sundance claims. Time will have to determine how cost effective each is. Time will also determine if other mfrs adopt that filter style. It may be overkill. Who knows? I know I didn't buy because of it.
But in the highly competitive spa world, no one will concede anything. HS pitches 5 filters and 100% pump water filtration. Is that overkill? Do you want your pump water filtered or would you rather have a lower micron filter of your water? Do you want to clean your filter or pitch it and put a new one in? We live in a "disposable" world. It makes a nice pitch, notwithstanding those here who don't mind cleaning their filters.
Has anyone looked at how effective filters are after they are cleaned? I would also think time between cleanings would decrease since you can't get it back to brand new. Some of the "pores" are still going to have stuff in them. The filters themselves may hold up a long time, but may also have to replaced sooner simply because they aren't effective or have to be cleaned more frequently (speculation on my part).
(http://www.micropure.ca/images/micronchart.gif)
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Also, if you would like to go to a cleanable filter, you can always go with a double ended 125sq. ft. filter.
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and Brewman said:
I just love it when the marketing people and the engineers get together for lunch!
What's next, zero micron filtration?
Anything to boast about in a brochure, I guess!
Maybe the next generation of filters will be so tight that they actually seperate the hydrogen atom from the oxygen atom, thus producing fuel that can be burned to heat the spa.
Loved it!!
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I have no idea to what level of filtration one should actually filter in a hot tub or a pool. But I do know that it wasn't that long ago that filtering to 10 or 20 microns seemed pretty good for dust collection in the shop.
1 micron is now the standard requirement most woodworkers have. I never used to worry about it. Now I do. Is there a reason coming soon (aside from any manufacturers hype) that I would want water filtered as well as I can filter air. Maybe. What may be a case of Legionnaires Disease we had here in T.O makers me wonder. Supposedly warm water may have been a contributor in keeping the bacteria or virus or whatever active. I won't go nuts about filtering to that level but if it's relatively inexpensive to do so, I'll think about it after what I've learned in the shop about air cleaning.
FWIW. paul
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Sanitizer kills bacteria, no amount of filtration will kill bacteria. Chlorine and a weekly dose of shock, will keep your water free of living organisms, filters will get out the hair, dead skin, dust particulate, ants, flies and other solids. It is only in the past 5 years or so that manufacturers have come out with these crazy millimicron filters. Pure marketing. Spas have been clean and safe to use for decades without the need for hundred dollar filters.
I have no idea to what level of filtration one should actually filter in a hot tub or a pool. But I do know that it wasn't that long ago that filtering to 10 or 20 microns seemed pretty good for dust collection in the shop.
1 micron is now the standard requirement most woodworkers have. I never used to worry about it. Now I do. Is there a reason coming soon (aside from any manufacturers hype) that I would want water filtered as well as I can filter air. Maybe. What may be a case of Legionnaires Disease we had here in T.O makers me wonder. Supposedly warm water may have been a contributor in keeping the bacteria or virus or whatever active. I won't go nuts about filtering to that level but if it's relatively inexpensive to do so, I'll think about it after what I've learned in the shop about air cleaning.
FWIW. paul
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So when you kick the pumps on high and you all of a sudden get a bunch more water swooping into the filter housing, how is that happening? Does turning the jets on high make the circulation pump move mre water?
Actually, if you look closely in the "filter housing", there is another jet pump inlet (just like the 4 in the tub's footwell) below the filter, which likely causes the water to "swoop " into the housing ;)
SB
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Spas have been clean and safe to use for decades without the need for hundred dollar filters.
Perhaps, but not every micron filter is $100 bucks. The disposable micropure.ca filter at the hot tub essentials site is $28 bucks, $24 for 4. Replacing every 4 months give or take is pretty cheap. I think a lot of folks would give up $6/month to not have to mess around with cleaning filters, no matter how much the folks here love doing it. As far as pricing, on the $100 Sundance filters, your paying for the Sundance name, nothing more.
Not every improvement is marketing hype. You don't toss washable filters because they're more expensive. What's wrong with progress? If you have a disposable filter that makes keeping up a tub even easier and it can filter out smaller particulate matter, why try to dismiss it?
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The one micron SD filter is only fifteen dollars from my dealer. The five micron SD filter is a totally different technology than the Microclean I or the Micropure.ca.
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I don't dismiss it, I put it in it's proper place. Filtration should be the last thing a customer is concerned about when purchasing a spa. ALL SPAS KEEP WATER WARM AND CLEAN. More importantly, comfort, reliability, dealer support both from the factory and to the customer, all far and away more important than filtration. P.S. We sell the 1 micron disposable for 15 bucks too.
Perhaps, but not every micron filter is $100 bucks. The disposable micropure.ca filter at the hot tub essentials site is $28 bucks, $24 for 4. Replacing every 4 months give or take is pretty cheap. I think a lot of folks would give up $6/month to not have to mess around with cleaning filters, no matter how much the folks here love doing it. As far as pricing, on the $100 Sundance filters, your paying for the Sundance name, nothing more.
Not every improvement is marketing hype. You don't toss washable filters because they're more expensive. What's wrong with progress? If you have a disposable filter that makes keeping up a tub even easier and it can filter out smaller particulate matter, why try to dismiss it?
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The one micron SD filter is only fifteen dollars from my dealer. The five micron SD filter is a totally different technology than the Microclean I or the Micropure.ca.
I'm not familiar with the 1 micron SD filter and how it integrates into their filter system. Is it the primary filter or is there still a large conventional filter to supplement it? Is it the size of a conventional filter?
The MicroII appears to be a disposable pleated polypropylene that costs $100. The micropure.ca filter is a disposable polypropylene depth filter that costs roughly $25. Technology notwithstanding, I'd rather toss $25 every 4 months than $100 every 6-9 months when it's time to change.
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The microI looks very much like the micropure, except shorter length. It is coupled with a conventional pleated filter. The low flow circ pump filters only through the microI filter. The two speed main pump filters through the pleated filter.
The microII looks more like a new age pleated filter. A high flow circ pump filters through this and handles 100% of the filtering.
One always has the option with either system to use a normal pleated filter.
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ALL SPAS KEEP WATER WARM AND CLEAN.
But, not all spas keep the pump, the heater, and the plumbing clean. THAT is a very important factor to consider when buying a spa. It kind of limits your choices, though.
Terminator
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HMMM, what could you possibly mean? ;)
But, not all spas keep the pump, the heater, and the plumbing clean. THAT is a very important factor to consider when buying a spa. It kind of limits your choices, though.
Terminator
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On a Maxxus, the number of gallons in the spa (I hesitate to say the full body of water because there could always be parts of the water that don't get filtered) is filtered 88 times per day, without ever turning the main pumps on. Is there any other tub on the market that can move 50,000 gallons of water a day without turning on their main pump?
I think Beachcomber tubs, with the 'Hush Pump" could do close to that. I don't know for sure. That is about 35 gallons per minute. Are you sure the SD does 35 gallons per minute?
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Maybe the new filtration system on the new Sundances are different, but I'm pretty sure the circulation pump on our 2003 Optima doesn't do 35 gpm.
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The new circ pump on the 2005 Sundance 880 series spas, the Maxxus, Optima and Cameo pushes 35 gallons per minute. The 850 series spas such as the 2004 Optima, uses the Lainge circ pump which pushes about 6 gallons per minute.
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Bunch of good information... but, no one has really said if there is a non-SD equivalent to the 5 micron filter (for the 880s).
Yes? No? Don't know? I don't mind (too much) purchasing the SD filter, so they can't ever say it's *my* fault if a problem is blamed on the filter, but I'd rather order over the Internet.
(My dealer is far, far away, as some might remember, and I think 'shipping' is a foreign concept to them. People 'drop by' to get filters. Well, I'd rather not drive 170 miles (round trip) for a filter.... :) )
(And, yeah, the circ pump really puts out a lot: when the heater's on, you can feel a ton of water coming in. A gallon in 2 seconds seems about right!)
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Sorry, don't know.
I have seen places to order Sundance Microfilters (the $15 ones) online, but they weren't much cheaper than buying locally. Probably more expensive considering S&H charges.
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Thanks, but, 'local' to me is 170 miles (at the new IRS rate of $0.48, that's $81 wear/tear/gas for driving there). :)
No one sells SD parts over the Internet?! I think I googled it with no luck. I'd assume *some* SD dealer would do mailorder...
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Okay, I googled in more detail and found poolspahelp.com which sells SD parts online. I put in a request for the price on the 880 filter, but...
Anyone have good/bad things to say about these folks? We're talking a bit of bucks if I get two or whatever.... :)
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I think this is the same outfit I was referring to a couple of posts above. I also asked them for a price quote on the Sundance remote control for the factory stereo, and the module to allow the remote to control the pumps.
I didn't end up doing business with them, but at the time, the general consensus was that they were fine to do business with.
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Thanks much, Brewman! Now let's see what the quote is; I'll let you all know... :-)
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Try www.shepnell.com. They sell SD parts.
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Appreciate the tip, I'll check it out.
No response from the other site, yet, that I can see. (According to their website, they close the phones at 2 PM PT, so I'd expect to have heard last night.. :) )
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Shepnell says they can order from SD, and they are $123 each. :) I assume that's list.
No tax or shipping, though...
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in response to stl rex's statement earlier in this post,
I called micropureand asked several questions in regards to their brand filter versus others. Nobody over there could explain where 900 sq ft. came from or what the price for an alternative SD filter would be because they don't make one for their spas. SD's filter dwarfs the micropure's in size. soooo.....
micropure.ca's micron filter is approximately 30$, however it is only a solid micron filter like the original microclean, it not in a pleated format like the microclean 2's. also the micropure.ca's filter that they boast covers 900sq ft, and yet is only 12 inches at its longest point and 3 inches thick, i really wanna know where 900 sq ft comes from.
so when we take that into consideration and gets thrown out every @max 4 months.
say micropure.ca's filter was the size of the maxxus filter= 2 1/2 times the size and for sake we'll say the price as well=75$ per filter, every 8 months=150$
how much chemical difference could there possibly be between 5 and 1 micron filtration levels to keep the spa as clean as possible. would you spend any more or less between the 2?
also, micropure.ca's doesnt have the mesh wiring encasing the filter to help grab other dirt, hair, etc. like the SD's. this stuff would slide right off the micropure.ca's filter, back into the spa.
Ya know, so maybe I wasn't completely accurate with the filtration system statement I made prior of, however there are other parts to the story I did not mention, turnover ratio in the maxxus. I think Sergikal strike said it best
"On a Maxxus, the number of gallons in the spa (I hesitate to say the full body of water because there could always be parts of the water that don't get filtered) is filtered 88 times per day, without ever turning the main pumps on. Is there any other tub on the market that can move 50,000 gallons of water a day without turning on their main pump? "
8)
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Is there any other tub on the market that can move 50,000 gallons of water a day without turning on their main pump? "
A Super Custom Fall-sa-part...
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Is there any other tub on the market that can move 50,000 gallons of water a day without turning on their main pump? "
8)
I don't think so but my question would be "do you need to?". Anything beyond what is truly needed to keep the water clean is like my kids leaving the light on in the bathroom IMO and I wonder if a typical spa needs that much circulation/day, not that it'll hurt anything but the electric bill (even then it's probably a buck or two extra per month). I'm just wondering what more this does for you. Is it Marketing driven or Engineering driven?
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My dealer is 70 miles away but I wanted to purchase chemicals and filters from them also. They have some chemicals listed on their website but not a lot.
I just call their toll free number, tell them what I need, give them my credit card number and in two days I have what I ordered. I would imagine since they have a shopping cart on their website that they would take orders from anywhere.
Let me know if you would like their contact information.
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in response to stl rex's statement earlier in this post,
I called micropureand asked several questions in regards to their brand filter versus others. Nobody over there could explain where 900 sq ft. came from or what the price for an alternative SD filter would be because they don't make one for their spas. SD's filter dwarfs the micropure's in size. soooo.....
micropure.ca's micron filter is approximately 30$, however it is only a solid micron filter like the original microclean, it not in a pleated format like the microclean 2's. also the micropure.ca's filter that they boast covers 900sq ft, and yet is only 12 inches at its longest point and 3 inches thick, i really wanna know where 900 sq ft comes from.
so when we take that into consideration and gets thrown out every @max 4 months.
say micropure.ca's filter was the size of the maxxus filter= 2 1/2 times the size and for sake we'll say the price as well=75$ per filter, every 8 months=150$
how much chemical difference could there possibly be between 5 and 1 micron filtration levels to keep the spa as clean as possible. would you spend any more or less between the 2?
also, micropure.ca's doesnt have the mesh wiring encasing the filter to help grab other dirt, hair, etc. like the SD's. this stuff would slide right off the micropure.ca's filter, back into the spa.
From "Filterguy" an employee at Micropure, earlier in the year.
I have been reading about flow. Filter X will allow this much water through etc. The fact of the matter is, you don't want a lot of water to go through fast while cleaning. While Micron filters will not restrict the flow of your spa, it is a fine balancing act. Restricting (reducing) flow will increase filtration. The issue is that the spa industry all wants to maintain flow rates for jet pressure. That is why we have built these particular filters this way. Other companies have tried to copy us and have put out polypro filters that reduce flow way too much. We have done a lot of research in this area to make the filters work in spas. This is why you have not seen anyone successfully accomplish this until now. micropure filters are very porous. In fact they will only drop 2 psi from new to dirty. Since the filter is made up of caves and caverns there is about 900 sq ft of "surface" material exposed through the entire filter. This little sales pitch helps our dealers explain it to the customers. Unlike pleated filters that cake with debris and reduce flow quickly, our filters tend to last longer without servicing.
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Since you asked........ Not at all unlike calling the pleated filter 125 sq ft. It's an "effective" rather than an actual area since the filter itself is not 125 sq ft. The 900 number comes from contact in the chambers through the depth, not the surface. Again those are not my words; they are the words of the micropure.ca employee.
The bottom line really isn't performance, it's cost. I'm sure they both do an admirable job filtering. You can quibble about 1 micron or 5 microns. The SD may be a fine filter, but very expensive for a disposable. Since it is polypropylene and will absorb oils etc, you can't escape the fact it will have to be replaced and be replaced periodically at a cost roughly 4X that of the micropure filter. You can buy 4 micropure.ca filters for $100 at the essential hot tub site. How many 5 micron SD filters does $100 buy again?
Gee, if we use effective sq ft of filtration numbers to calculate cost, (like you attempted to apply based on actual (not effective) filter surface area), the cost per sq ft of filtration for the micropure.ca filter is $.03 per ft vs $0.80/ft for the Sundance. If you have to replace the micropure.ca filter twice as often, the cost per foot rockets to $0.06 vs the $0.80 for the Sundance.
Looks to me like you could get a lot of surface area here.
(http://www.micropure.ca/images/depthfilter.jpg)
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Shepnell says they can order from SD, and they are $123 each. :) I assume that's list.
No tax or shipping, though...
Finally got to my dealer (he's been out sick for a couple of days), and he will sell me the 880 filters for *$80*! Gee, no brainer. That has to be about his cost, no?
(And, since I never got the intro chem kit (installers didn't bring it), he's crediting me $65 for that, so I'm getting two filters for about $100... That should last me until next summer or so...)
Well, you could say I'm happier now... :)
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You are correct. Close to cost when shipping is factored.