Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: stargazer on September 01, 2005, 07:54:15 am
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I went to a dealer last night and checked out both of these tubs...I also looked at the Vanguard, but WAY too small for long legged people!!
so....we're down to those 2. Tonight we'll go for a wet test, which I think will help make the decision, since we're still debating whether to take a lounger or not...
do you think the Grandee is too big for basically 2 people who will be using it the most? it seems quite huge...
we also checked out Arctic Tubs...seems very well made but VERY expensive...a mid-range one is about $13k (Can)...
:o
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If you like the Arctic, try aggressively negotiating. I was floated some pretty high numbers initially, but they vaporized pretty quickly. Can't blame someone for trying to make $. I've found them to be very competitive in price. Remember, they have different levels of therapy within a line. If you were quoted on a Legend SE, another model level such as an Ultra or Legend may be more in your range, and more comparable to the other tubs to which you are comparing the Arctic.
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Actually, one thing I found about the Arctic dealer, is that they wait to the very last minute to discuss price, it almost seems like they know they are way over the other companies... they emphasize more on the way it's built and so on.
They also asked for a 500$ fully refundable deposit to fill a tub for a wet test. What's up with that??? are they afraid I'll do something to the tub while wet testing??? ???
oen thing about those tubs though...they are made in Canada, therefore built for our cold winters!
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Can't speak to your dealer, but mine was willing to fill any tub in which I had an interest without any deposit. Their method of operation appears to be to tout the features/quality of the spa and hope you bite. If you've shopped around and have competitive bids and information, you are more likely to get a better price.
I disagree with the $500 deposit to fill the tub however. But that is a dealer tactic, not an Arctic tactic.
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There may be some resistance to this, but the idea that Arctic spas are more energy efficient or more suited to cold climates is really not necessarily true. My wife and I have a home 7 miles south of the Canadian border in Colebrook, NH. We have friends and family with experience with Arctic and HotSpring up there. The HS seems more energy efficient and has proven to be more reliable than the Arctic. Since the two tubs are in different households, and variables such as water temp and usage may vary, you should understand that this information is anecdotal, not scientific. Nevertheless, both tubs have been in service for approximately the same amount of time (2 years, plus or minus). The HS has been flawless, the Arctic has required repairs. Both tubs are in sunrooms, but are not heated except by the tubs. Coldest temps are in the minus 30 degree F range.
Regards,
Bill
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Can you provide more feedback on the Arctic repairs. Major, minor, time out of service etc. I would be interested in knowing if you know. Thanks.
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I did feel a bit of pressure by the arctic dealer....they said they had this "amazing" sale that just ended last weekend, that they could maybe offer if we were to buy within the next 2 days!!
and the fact that they kept evading the price question made me a bit suspicious!
they sell tubs up to $18000!! could not believe it!
I did not feel any pressure whatsoever by the HS and Caldera dealer.. and...the prices were even marked on the tubs, and they even offered approx a 1000$ off those prices...
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Actually, one thing I found about the Arctic dealer, is that they wait to the very last minute to discuss price, it almost seems like they know they are way over the other companies... they emphasize more on the way it's built and so on.
They also asked for a 500$ fully refundable deposit to fill a tub for a wet test. What's up with that??? are they afraid I'll do something to the tub while wet testing??? ???
oen thing about those tubs though...they are made in Canada, therefore built for our cold winters!
I live on Canadaand have a Beachcomber dealer and an Arctic dealer 5 minutes away from each other. The Beachcomber dealer has prices listed on each tub and a wet test was setup on the day I wanted no charge, the Arctic dealer had no prices posted and alot of fluff talk, I never wet tested the Arctic...I bought the Beachcomber. Awhile back there was a post for what you want to see at a dealership and almost everyone said posted prices...why don't some dealers listen??
Ray
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I did feel a bit of pressure by the arctic dealer....they said they had this "amazing" sale that just ended last weekend, that they could maybe offer if we were to buy within the next 2 days!!
and the fact that they kept evading the price question made me a bit suspicious!
they sell tubs up to $18000!! could not believe it!
I did not feel any pressure whatsoever by the HS and Caldera dealer.. and...the prices were even marked on the tubs, and they even offered approx a 1000$ off those prices...
One thing I've read here is that you need to feel comfortable with the dealer. You may be back in there buying chemicals or need them for service. If you're not getting warm fuzzies then that may eliminate that brand (any brand, not just Arctic) from consideration.
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the lady at the store was very nice, but I felt a bit like when I go buy a car!!! :P
"let's sit down and discuss the price shall we?!!!"" type-of- thing...
For all you dealers out there....can someone explain to me why you want a deposit to fill a tub for a wet test?
it's a "refundable" deposit...therefore...not in your pocket!!! so why ?
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Howdy stargazer! You've answered your own question...let the wet test be your determining factor. That will make everything come into focus. The Grandee and the Envoy are very different in the way they feel, but they are both dependable, efficient, and built to be the last spa you ever own, so make sure the one you choose is the one that fits you best. :)
Regarding your question of size, the Grandee feels a lot bigger than the Envoy because of the layout. It might not feel as intimate as the smaller Envoy, but you should have ample room in either.
The reason, in my opinion, you were asked to put down a deposit is this: once you have made a financial commitment towards a product, you are starting to take ownership. Salespeople know that once someone puts down a deposit, they are most likely going to follow through with the purchase. This is taught in every retail sales course out there. You will hear a story like "This deposit will guarantee this price", but know it for what it is....the first step for the salesman to close the deal.
Have fun tonight, wet testing is the only way to shop! ;D
Terminator
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Terminator,
your explanation about the deposit makes sense....it's all about "trapping" the customer into a sale in way...psychological tactic!!
next time it happens, I will ask "Why they want it?" ;D
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BINGO!
Terminator
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do you think the Grandee is too big for basically 2 people who will be using it the most? it seems quite huge...
we also checked out Arctic Tubs...seems very well made but VERY expensive...a mid-range one is about $13k (Can)...
:o
We have a big tub and its usually 3 of us, sometimes 2. Its comfortable on the rare times we have had 5 or 6.
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Terminator,
as a dealer, what would you answer if a customer asked why you want a deposit???
you salespeople always have "the" answer!! :)
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Terminator,
as a dealer, what would you answer if a customer asked why you want a deposit???
you salespeople always have "the" answer!! :)
Be nice stargazer, he has guns
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:D hehe!! I Know!!
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Terminator,
as a dealer, what would you answer if a customer asked why you want a deposit???
you salespeople always have "the" answer!! :)
I would say "So that I can hold this price for you." ;) Just kidding.
In complete seriousness, I'm like any other salesperson on here, I would love to get a deposit and I do want you to start taking ownership. It is my job. I'm just being honest about it. I don't play games with the customers.
However, the only time I ask for one is when a customer wants a certain spa in a certain color and it is the last one in stock. If they are "needing to think about it", I will ask for a deposit (it could be $5 for all I care) to hold it until the end of the day. If they choose not to leave a deposit, I'll sell the spa to the first person who wants it and WILL leave a deposit.
Hope this answers your question. :)
Terminator
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Oh, and everybody giving me a hard time about my guns...that is actually my 7-year old daughter's gun I'm holding in the picture. ;D
Terminator
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Oh, and everybody giving me a hard time about my guns...that is actually my 7-year old daughter's gun I'm holding in the picture. ;D
Terminator
See that's how you Americans get a bad rap man, now if it were a hockey stick it would be acceptable.
Ray
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I reckon that's why I don't lose sleep worrying about being invaded from the north. ;D
Terminator
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your 7 year old daughter has a gun :o
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Si, 3 of them. 2 real ones, one very expensive toy one (the one in the picture).
Terminator
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We usually only have 2 in our Envoy. On the few occasions that we have had up to 4 it's been fine. We jump around to all the seats either way, since the variation is a great feature. Unless we want specific therapy the diverters are set to 6 or 12 o'clock to power all jets. This give plenty of power to all the seats in most cases.
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I reckon that's why I don't lose sleep worrying about being invaded from the north. ;D
Terminator
Are you referring to, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota or North Dakota?
Ray
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Star, I own the HS Landmark which is basically the same size as the Grandee with a different seating arrangement. I think you will enjoy the roominess of the Grandee whether it is just the 2 of you or if you are entertaining. I dont think you will ever say....Gee this tub is too big, we should have got the smaller one....Let the wet test be your guide as far as the lounger goes. If you like the lounger then consider the Envoy, but also remember with the size of the Grandee you can put your feet across the bench seat effectively making it into a lounger.
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Are you referring to, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota or North Dakota?
Ray
;D Not really worried about anyone from up north......except maybe Oklahoma. Lot's of gun-toting rednecks up there! (Almost as many as we've got here)
Terminator
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;D Not really worried about anyone from up north......except maybe Oklahoma.
We've seen what OU can do to your state's main college football team on a regular basis so you might want to keep an eye out if you see them massing at the border. ;)
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We've seen what OU can do to your state's main college football team on a regular basis so you might want to keep an eye out if you see them massing at the border. ;)
You noticed, I was kind of sidestepping that ;). Oh well, we did win the National Championship in baseball. That counts as something! ;D
Terminator
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Oh, and everybody giving me a hard time about my guns...that is actually my 7-year old daughter's gun I'm holding in the picture. ;D
Terminator
You won't get a hard time about that from me.
I admire your willingness to pose that way!
From a fellow "enthusiast".
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Oh, and everybody giving me a hard time about my guns...that is actually my 7-year old daughter's gun I'm holding in the picture. ;D
Terminator
Only in Texas (and a few neighboring states)!! Does she have a gun rack right above her bedpost next to her Barbie collection? ;) ;D
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Only in Texas (and a few neighboring states)!! Does she have a gun rack right above her bedpost next to her Barbie collection? ;) ;D
Yep, and on her bicycle.
Brewman, if you're ever this way, bring your shootin irons and we'll blast some milk jugs! 8)
Terminator
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Stl-rex,
The repairs to the Arctic involved leaks, and I think one bad pump or maybe a pump seal. Down time is not known to me. I can tell you that if they had it to do again, they would not buy Arctic, but that might be as much related to the dealer as it is to the tub. The tub itself seems nice enough, but it is clear that it has not met their expectations. These are reasonable people too.
Regards,
Bill
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You noticed, I was kind of sidestepping that ;). Oh well, we did win the National Championship in baseball. That counts as something! ;D
Terminator
Hook 'em horns, Terminator! I wouldn't worry too much, there are those of us in Oklahoma who are keeping an eye out! We will have our day again, OU will be fairly green this year, even at Cotton Bowl time!
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;D Not really worried about anyone from up north......except maybe Oklahoma. Lot's of gun-toting rednecks up there! (Almost as many as we've got here)
Terminator
That's the truth! My husband is one of them, gun-toter that is, he isn't really redneck. Unless Cubans can be termed red-neck. ;) Or is it militant? ::) I know...Freedom Fighters! ;D Oh, my Father-in-law would be very unhappy with me.
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Only in Texas (and a few neighboring states)!! Does she have a gun rack right above her bedpost next to her Barbie collection? ;) ;D
Hoss, if you think only TX & immediate neighbors are armed, you are underinformed. In light of what is happening on the Gulf Coast, with looters shooting at rescue helos (my brother's flying one), count your blessings that some of your neighbors, wherever you live, are good guys with guns. So far we still outnumber the bad guys.
Now let's get this thread back on topic, cause we wet test at the Hot Springs dealer in VA tomorrow nite. Comparing the Grandee vs Vista vs others, expecting to like the open seating plan for my family of 4 plus lots of guests who, I think, are likely to appreciate the gradual entry via the cool down seat. And my bad back is sure liking the look of the dual moto-massage. Geronimo - will report post-test.
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Now let's get this thread back on topic, cause we wet test at the Hot Springs dealer in VA tomorrow nite. Comparing the Grandee vs Vista vs others, expecting to like the open seating plan for my family of 4 plus lots of guests who, I think, are likely to appreciate the gradual entry via the cool down seat. And my bad back is sure liking the look of the dual moto-massage. Geronimo - will report post-test.
My spa is basically an open seated spa which woks well for us. My kids and myself never stay in one seat for more than a minute or two as we kind of slide around constantly. The other type has its advantages as does a lounge spa. This is why wet testing is key; to each his own.
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Hey East TX Spa and Terminator!
We wet tested an HS Envoy the other night, and liked it , but hubby wants a longer lounger so we're thinking of getting the Vista. They didn't have one available to wet test, but we sat in it dry and liked the 'feel' of the seats. Apparently they're similar to the Envoy, with the exception of the 'Captain's Seat', being on an angle in the Vista and straight in the Envoy,. We didn't like that straight configuration at all. I had to keep turning my head to talk to him while he was in the lounge. Hubby just loves the Moto-Massage, and I liked the wrist jets in the Envoy, which the Vista also has. The calf jets were awesome, too.
The saleslady mentioned a $9400 price, but we didn't get into specifics at that time because it was getting late, and we wanted to think on it some more. I know that includes a differently configured cover because we want the cover to be on a side other than where it usually is. It also includes delivery and set up. We didn't talk about an ozonator or any other add-ons. I know we don't want the Spa Audio feature. We're gonna set up our own sound system.
Does that price sound about right? Hubby was pleasantly surprised cause he thought it was gonna be well over $10K.
I'd appreciate your thoughts. :)
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SuziQ, that sounds like a pretty good deal on the Vista. We sell it for around $9800 (no accessories). The cover lifters for the Vista can be mounted on either side of the spa (from the control panel) as opposed to the Envoy, which folds straight back from the controls.
That is a very astute observation regarding the captain's chair and one that I hadn't considered before. Thank you for pointing that out as I can now use that to help customers when they are deciding between the Vista and Envoy. :)
I believe a person would have to search far and wide to find a better spa than the Vista. It is definitely a luxurious water therapy machine!
Terminator
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Thanks! ;D