Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Debra on August 25, 2005, 11:41:16 am
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We are looking into buying a hot tub and are very confused because of all the information and contradictions out there. Can anyone let me know what they think about Sunrise Spas particularly the Paragon series? We would like a good quality spa for a family of 7. Any help would be appreciated.
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Just looking at their website, I will again have to say the same thing I've said time after time: It looks like a generic kit spa that you could probably build yourself.
Consumers need to realize that there are hundreds of spa companies in the market. The majority of these spas are made from kits that you can purchase out of any pool and spa magazine.
Let's say you and I decided to go into the spa business. We will set up our manufacturing plant in my backyard workshop, order the parts we need, build the spa, call it a "SeaMonkey Spa", and sell it either on the internet, out of a storage building, or on the side of the road. Or, we could just label them "SeaMonkey Factory Direct Spas" and sell them right out of my workshop. People love to buy cheap products.
After 2 or 3 years, when our customers are ready to lynch us, we move across town, set up shop, and start producing "Crawdaddy Spas". Repeat over and over and over and you have the business model for most spa companies.
If you decide to go this route, I wish you well. I have tried my best on these forums to keep people from throwing their hard-earned money away, but it is your money.
Please feel free to ask any specific questions and I'll do my best to answer. :)
Terminator
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Just looking at their website, I will again have to say the same thing I've said time after time: It looks like a generic kit spa that you could probably build yourself.
Consumers need to realize that there are hundreds of spa companies in the market. The majority of these spas are made from kits that you can purchase out of any pool and spa magazine.
Let's say you and I decided to go into the spa business. We will set up our manufacturing plant in my backyard workshop, order the parts we need, build the spa, call it a "SeaMonkey Spa", and sell it either on the internet, out of a storage building, or on the side of the road. Or, we could just label them "SeaMonkey Factory Direct Spas" and sell them right out of my workshop. People love to buy cheap products.
After 2 or 3 years, when our customers are ready to lynch us, we move across town, set up shop, and start producing "Crawdaddy Spas". Repeat over and over and over and you have the business model for most spa companies.
If you decide to go this route, I wish you well. I have tried my best on these forums to keep people from throwing their hard-earned money away, but it is your money.
Please feel free to ask any specific questions and I'll do my best to answer. :)
Terminator
That my friend is the best post I have read on this forum. It is a post that no one can refute.
IMHO Ray
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How true. Major investments require major decisions and Mom and Pop operations are great for burgers and lemonade, NOT things with moving parts that need servicing.
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Not sure about Sunrise being in the "backyard workshop" category. They are out in Grimsby and I think you can tour the facility pretty much any time. When we were looking, we narrowed it down to them and the Sundance Majesta after looking at and testing a lot of tubs. We had it ahead of HotSprings (mostly due to the "sleazy" kind of dealer, the look of the shell and we fit better in most seating) and Jacuzzi. We chose the Sundance for three reasons: longer warranty, best seating for all of us, and it's a 'big' brand. I'm really glad we went with the Sundance, but I think I would have been ok with the Sunrise as my daughter knows several people at Diplomat in Pickering from her summers working for a pool and spa supplies company and they're a good dealer by reputation. Right or wrong, it's just my two cents. paul
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Back in late 2003 I stopped into a store that had Sunrise. They seemed OK, but apparently they have or had quality issues from what I remember through my internet browsing.
The spa I saw was a "deluxe" (I think SS) model and seemed to have a lot of jets and was powerful. At that time it was selling for about $7,500.
After shopping around and reading about their quality issues I decided not to pursue them when I was officially shopping for a tub.
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My brother-in-law has owned a Sunrise for about 5 years, with zero problems.
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I'm not saying Sunrise is a bad spa. Maybe they have a bigger workshop than I do, but it is what it appears to be; a generic spa built from a kit, just like 90% of the spa companies on the market. Generic shell, generic jets, generic spa pack (I'll bet), generic heater, generic filter, generic cabinet, and most damning of all, no drain in the bottom of the spa!!!
They just picked a better name than "SeaMonkey Spas.";D
Terminator
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I'm not saying Sunrise is a bad spa. Maybe they have a bigger workshop than I do, but it is what it appears to be; a generic spa built from a kit, just like 90% of the spa companies on the market. Generic shell, generic jets, generic spa pack (I'll bet), generic heater, generic filter, generic cabinet, and most damning of all, no drain in the bottom of the spa!!!
They just picked a better name than "SeaMonkey Spas.";D
Terminator
Terminator;
Please enlighten me a little. You refer to generic this and that.
Does Hotspring make all of there own components? Do they engineer and manufacture there own controls and jets?
What about their pumps, motors, heaters, fountains and lights? Are any of these outsourced or all made by Watkins?
Most any spa I have encoutered uses Gecko or Balboa controls and Waterway or Pentair jets.
Are you classing a spa as generic if it buys its components from one of these four manufacturers?
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To answer your question Hot Tub Man, yes, almost every component is designed in-house and is exclusive to HotSpring. That's why I made that statement that 90% of spas are pretty generic. Not all, but the majority.
Terminator
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So based on that, the following brands are generic:
Dimension 1
Beachcomber
Coleman
Hydropool
Arctic
Coast
CalSpa
Catalina
Sundance (I know they make some of there own jets, but also use Waterway)
Dynasty
Artesian
etc etc...pretty much anything but Hot Spring is generic ???
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Calm down, you're getting all riled up over nothing. ;D
Where did I ever write that HotSpring was the only non-generic spa on the market? I'm sure most of the companies on that list have many, many exclusive features on their spas. Most of the ones you listed are fine spas, nothing wrong with them at all.
I'm talking about the majority of spa brands (not large, full scale manufacturers that sell most of the spas around the world) that you see being sold in trade papers, out of storage facilities, on the side of the road, at "factory outlets", at fly-by-night dealers, and on the internet.
I'm not looking to pick a fight or demean your brand of spa. :)
Terminator
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I guess I misunderstood you. My bad.
Curious though, are saying HS designs the components and then someone manufactures (ie jets, pumps, controls) or are you saying HS design/engineers in house then manufactures the components?
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I'm sorry we misunderstood one another.
In my earlier post, I said "almost every component is designed in-house and is exclusive to HotSpring." There is no company that makes every single nut and bolt on-site. Their engineering and R&D departments are top-notch, but, as with most large companies, they have third-party manufacturers actually build some of the individual components they (HS) design.
HotSpring does tend to do things differently from most spa manufactuers and I believe it is a big reason they are the worldwide leader in units sold. That's why our company has sold them exclusively for the last 20 years.
Terminator
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...They just picked a better name than "SeaMonkey Spas.";D
Terminator
I thought "SeaMonkey Spas" was an excellent name. Cracked me up. :)
Then again, I wanted to market floating fake poo so people could pull the old "Caddy Shack" prank. ::)
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Debra, I'm very sorry we took your thread off on a tangent. I saw where that happened to you on another board. This is a great board for information, regardless of how we industry people sometime banter back and forth. I gain knowledge here every day from my contemporaries as well as from consumers like you.
I think most everyone on here is trying to help consumers and, yes, we do all have our own agendas as well. I gave you my opinion (that's all it is) and others have given you theirs. I stick by mine. I do not have a horse in this race, but I do hope that you make an informed decision and are happy with whatever spa you choose! :)
Terminator
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Thank you Terminator. Yes this forum is much better than the last one I was at. (it was good for a laugh though). I am learning lots here. Still not sure about Sunrise though.
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Any feedback on the Sundance Majesta would be appreciated. We have been quoted $8,100, plus $500 for electrical hookup. Sundance is having a promo at present for a free built-in cd/radio, which I am told is worth $800+. Dealer is throwing in $200 for steps and $100 toward electrical.
I owned a Hot Springs many (17) years ago and had great luck with it. I am impressed with the Majesta, however, and this dealer selling it has a great reputation, and is only fifteen minutes from my cabin home.
???
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Earlier in this thread I mentioned that we got the Majesta. It not being a lounger made it the right one for us as we had trouble finding onethat fit more than one of us. Since I've been playing with the various jets, pumps and air controls I find I can get the thearpy on my legs that I want by using more than one seat. The young lad was in it with some friends last night and they found using the foot dome helped them stay in the seats.. until we had them turn the air up. We use the individual air controls a lot now that we've played with them and each person can get the therapy out of the seat they are in without impacting another user.
We went with the stereo option, I like having it as I don't have to hook up more wires to the stereo inside and have to set it up before we get in, or have someone leave a stereo outside in the rain, or soon enough the snow. I can see people not opting for it but I'm happy we did. Great sound and really convenient.
We paid a little over 9K US for stereo, ozonator, delivery, taxes. Our electrical was on top of that and a lot more as we had to put in a new panel, so I had them run some additional power out to the wokshop in the garage.
Water and tub maintenance is easy enough even for me (knock on wood). Don't think you can go wrong with it but make sure you wet test. We tested a couple HotSprings as well the Optima and two of the Sunrise. Majesta fit us best. Good luck paul