Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: leaky on August 16, 2005, 10:40:37 am
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All,
As threatened, I got the family into the Ody yesterday and trekked off to Capistrano for a private wet test of a Beachcomber 750. After the family went through all the seats a couple of times with the rep "driving", I offer the following observations:
Perceived Pros:
-Although not in a true backyard environment, the pump hardware in the step seemed pretty quiet and did not interfere with essentially normal conversation. The ease of service with this design also frees up internal space.
-The adjustment of the jets was easy and allowed a lot of variation of both water flow and bubbles.
-All of the seats were plenty deep for my 6' 3" frame, BUT (see below)...
-The shell-integrated grab rails were nice
-Controls on the top of the shell allowed easy input without having to revert to the side of the tub like Hot Spring
-My wife gave me the go ahead to sit down and order!! (although she has only been in this one tub so far...)
Perceived Cons:
-The LED light is a fairly expensive option
-With my daughter being a 12-year old featherweight, she fought to keep her chin above water in most seats, and tended to float out in all but two (although she will surely grow a bunch over the next couple of years)
-The low setting on the two-speed pumps is essentially a circulation setting only
-Each pump controls half of the seats, and the one "siphons" its power between the seats and the footwell, meaning that if you want full "foot massage", half of the seats will have no massage at all. This could probably be remedied if you order the extra foot pump option which this sample did not have.
-There was no footwell bump to push against, although that does allow for a completely flat floor.
All in all, we were very pleased with the test. Although I neglected to ask what chemicals they were using, there was no odor or chemical residue feeling when we left. My wife even commented that she was surprised that we didn't all smell like a pool, and her skin even felt a little softer. Don, the rep, said he felt that for the cost differential, the 730 would probably be a better deal, which brings up the problem that the seating arrangement and jets aren't EXACTLY the same as the model we tested. Regardless, he showed me his "private" hand-written cost sheet that I shouldn't have seen (right), and offered the following:
-Model 730 in my choice of finish and cabinet
-"Protec" external pump option
-Optional foot massage pump
-Cover & lift
-Delivery & Set up
$8,645
Tax & Sub Panel extra
Is this a good price? Any comments/criticisms are welcome.
I (we) will probably try to get out to see Harry (Mendecino101?) in Riverside and test a Marquis soon also.
Greg
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Leaky,
I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for in a tub, but what grabbed my attention was your "foot bump" note.
FWIW: My wife fell in love with the foot pod on the Tiger River Caspian. If this is something you're interested in, you might want to take a look at the Caspain. It's a bit smaller than what you are currently looking at, and from the data here, about 1K-1.5 cheaper. Good luck/ :)
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Drewstar,
Not exactly positive, but I think it was the Caspian that I sat in (dry) in Westwood, and the width of the seat (especially the multi-jet corner) was pretty tight on my wide shoulders. Also, I'm a little apprehensive about the depth being sufficient for my height.
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Sure, that came to my mind as well. At 6'3" You're gonna want alot of tub. :)
Perhaps it was left off the list of what was included in your deal, but I didn't see any steps, and you may also want to consider an ozinator too.
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With the "Protec" design, the pump hardware is under the step, so it is included. I did notice that instead of two steps, there is only one, which is a little bit high. I have the ozonator option scribbled as part of a deal maker should we decide to go with them. I'm not sure if the Beachcomber ozone system is UV or CD though. You can see the size of the step here:
http://www.beachcomberhottubs.com/ht_730.cfm
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If you are thinking of the 730 vs the 750 one thing to remember is the 730 does not have a lounger. I just purchased a 580 with the following options:
580 Limited Addition (Protec, Hush Pump, Foot Massage, Everlight, Power Guard Heat Shield)
Turbo pump
Slide and Store cover lifter
900 Swingbrella
Hand held jet
Care Free water tote
Holiday tender
Protec small side step
Delivery and set up.
Cost $8,148 including tax. The 730 would be have been $1,000 more with the same options.
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Some good info & research there leaky.
Couple things come to mind. First off, a "bump" in the footwell to me personally is major drawback. Consider where everyone has to step when in the tub and footwell space is limited on most spas to begin with. Nothing worse than tripping over this hump or stubbing a toe and I prefer a wide open design any day! The RFM jets are designed specifically to be in the corner of the footwell for this very reason.
I am unaware of an additional "foot pump" option which allows all seats AND the RFM jets to operate simultaneously? Are you sure on this? ??? If so, it's a new feature since I left...
Your comment on the low speed being a circulation speed is true with all spas. Low speed offers very little in the way of therapy but instead is there to offer proper filtration and skimming primariy.
BC ozone is a CD system and as far as the one, somewhat large first step with the protec design, it is possible to get a matching half step that can go in front to make it far easier to navigate.
Beachcomber makes a very strong product and one that you will be very happy with I'm sure. That said, if you have an opportunity to deal with Mendo, not only is Marquis a very good product also, but he's a top notch guy that you know will look after you.
Once you meet him, I doubt you'll go back to BC as you'll see the type of guy he is.
Good luck and keep us posted…
Steve
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Thanks for the info Steve. As for the foot pump option, I'm not positive. Below I copied and pasted two "options" from their website.
Turbo. Enhance your massage by supercharging the water in your hot tub. A supplemental 1 hp fan blows more air into the system to produce more bubbles. And more bubbles produce a more powerful stream for a more penetrating massage.
Reflex Foot Massage™ 700 Series. You know how good a foot massage feels - stimulating the feet can relieve tension throughout the body. This option lets you divert water to four extra footwell jets to deliver powerful massaging streams to your feet for maximum stimulation - and relaxation.
I may have confused or combined the two. Perhaps you can order the 700 series without the four extra footwell jets, as it is listed as an option, and then the diverting would not be possible. What the salesman may have been referring to was just the footwell jet option.
As for the model differences, the 750 doesn't have a lounger per-se. The two corner seats are more of a seat/recliner type, that give you the option of putting your legs across the center seat and using the thigh jets on your calves. The back jets do favor you facing along the side of the tub, but there are no devoted contours or jets as in a conventional lounger. The 740 and 720x have more conventional lounges.
And thanks for the heads-up on Mendo.
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Marks,
How do you like your 580? Looking at the layout, most of the jets appear to be on the spine centerline, rather than on either side for back muscle massage. And that's a LOT of accessories you picked up!
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leaky...I hope you get out to see Mendocino because I think the Marquis Epic might be great for you.
My husband is 6'3" also, and that's one of the things he loved about the Epic...it has a variation of seat depths and he loved the aidirondack and the deep seats.
I don't know about others, but most of the tubs we looked at all the seats were the same height and my husband wasn't comfortable in them.
Just IMO...but the Epic might just fit your needs. Go see Mendo.
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I'll plan on doing that, Kappy. We're heading to Big Bear over Labor Day, and could possibly swing in on the way up or down. Maybe even this weekend if things work out.
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I own a 750 and couldn't be happier. There is no additional pump for footwell it can be full on the feet, full on the one side or use the diverter and put it half way on full power to get both. I thought I would only use the pump on full power and never on the low speed but I can tell you I will use the low speed 90% of the time and the full speed at the beginning and at the end of my soak. The tub is very quite, low speed or full speed unless your ear is right up against the neck jet. I am 6'1" and thought I would be using the 6pack exclusivley but I usually sit in the corner set using it as a lounger and get a great foot massage from the 2 small jets that you can push your feet against. In Canadian $ mine was $11,300 without ozone or stereo. Get the LED light, I love it and so does the family, unless you are talking about the garden lights that are on the outside of the tub...they are nice but not great. The 730 is very nice but the swing seats in the 750 are very useful, turning 3 seats into 2 loungers for you and your significant other is a great way to open the communication chanels for a night of "talking".
Good luck in your final decision.
Ray
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Rayman,
Thanks for the feedback. A night of "talking" would be enough to sell me on the 750 alone, but I'll have to take some other things into consideration.....
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With the "Protec" design, the pump hardware is under the step, so it is included.
I know nothing about *these* models, but I'll comment on my previous spa, the PDC, which also had a lot of the hardware under the steps. I don't know about this one, but the arrangement there was that the steps were sort of a loose cover where the spa pack sat under the steps. Mine was set into a deck, so was above the ground. However, if it had been on the ground, I know I would have had a lot of bugs and other things making their way inside.
That's why I like the more totally sealed arrangement of SD and others like it. Are these models you looked at sealed where the plumbing from the pumps enter the 'inside'? Or is the step a closed extension of the cabinet to keep outside things outside? :)
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LS,
As I'm not an owner (others chime in here....), I can't speak from experience. When the rep showed the internals to us, he appeared to simply slide the step towards him, exposing the mechanicals. I don't remember whether there was some type of floor, but I assume there was. As for the seal around the step to the base, and step to cabinet/plumbing internals, I think it was pretty much just a slip fit.
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Leaky,
I have only had my 580 for one day. Just got out from my first soak. We loved it. We played with interchanging the jets and will probably exchange some of the single nozzle ones for multiple nozzle ones. Within the first 30 days you can swap out any jets for free. One issue is the diverter valve is loud. The owner is coming out tomorrow to show us how to use the tub and we will ask him about it. We bought our tub on a 4 of July sale. We live in Tucson, AZ so the summer is not a high time for Hot Tub sales (high is always over a 100).
We wet tested the 750 and did not like the side/lounge seat when you use it facing the middle. The jets hit you in the side and we did not care for that. The 730 was nice but we liked the bigger foot well on the 580.
I will keep you posted after the owner gives us the demo.
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I know nothing about *these* models, but I'll comment on my previous spa, the PDC, which also had a lot of the hardware under the steps. I don't know about this one, but the arrangement there was that the steps were sort of a loose cover where the spa pack sat under the steps. Mine was set into a deck, so was above the ground. However, if it had been on the ground, I know I would have had a lot of bugs and other things making their way inside.
That's why I like the more totally sealed arrangement of SD and others like it. Are these models you looked at sealed where the plumbing from the pumps enter the 'inside'? Or is the step a closed extension of the cabinet to keep outside things outside? :)
The step sits ontop of the spapack and screw into the side of the tub, it is as sealed as any other tub out there. No tub is sealed tight. The spapack has a floor to it as well so the pump and heater are not sitting on the ground, under the step is also where you drain it. I meant to comment about the step in my last post regarding it's height, they do sell a smaller add on step but we felt it was not necessary. We have 3 kids, 12, 10 and 7 and no problems getting in and out.
Ray
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This site is SOOO helpful. Thanks to you guys for the input. Marks, definitely keep me updated. Like I said, one problem for us would be that there's no real way to test the 580. The only local dealer has just the 750 wet, and no 580 even on the floor. He'd have to get one delivered to the store and then get it set up to wet test. Not sure if he'd be willing to do that, but I doubt it.
And Rayman, thanks for the info on sealing. The store obviously didn't bother screwing the step down for display reasons.
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Leaky,
I bought the small side step and like it. It helps when getting out of the tub.
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The step sits ontop of the spapack and screw into the side of the tub, it is as sealed as any other tub out there. No tub is sealed tight. The spapack has a floor to it as well so the pump and heater are not sitting on the ground, under the step is also where you drain it. I meant to comment about the step in my last post regarding it's height, they do sell a smaller add on step but we felt it was not necessary. We have 3 kids, 12, 10 and 7 and no problems getting in and out.
Ray
That sounds a lot better that the PDC we had. The step just sat there, and anything that crawled around it could get inside. The only thing stopping them from getting all the way inside to the plumbing was the state of the TP.
Glad to hear it's pretty well sealed against the exterior critters, and best of luck!
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Leaky,
Had my demo this morning. The diverter just need to be re-screwed on. My whole purchasing experience could not have been better. Tub delivered on time, no hassles with the install and everything works out of the box. Some other points:
I am using the Care Free water program (very easily)
I really like the turbo option
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Leaky,
I think your assessment of the Beachcomber is a pretty good one, and I second everything Rayman had to say. In terms of quality, quietness, nice deep seating and dealer support, it was the best we found. We've have a 730 since April and love everything about it. I've never heard of a third pump option for the footjets, but I would go that route if you could. As for the lighting, we almost never use it but, like picking different models, it all comes down to personal preference. I don't think you could go too far wrong though, with any Beachcomber.
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SLK,
Any advice on the Beachcomber filtering system? My current plan is the following:
Hose the filter off weekly
Soak the filter every month alternating between Filter Pure and Filter Cure
Use a two filters so that when one is soaking the next one is ready.
Hope the two filter set, lasts 2 years
One other option I as considering is the MicroPure Disposable filter. My dealer did not like this idea.
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Leaky if the LED option seems expensive you can buy it aftermarket for $99.00 cdn and install it yourself, which is very easy, the same as changing a light bulb.
The LED is a nice feature at night.
Regards, Zz
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Great post Leaky.
Please keep us informed on your other wet test experiences :)
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Got a call from the Beachcomber rep yesterday, just checking to see if we'd made a decision or done any further investigation. He also clarified a couple of things for me:
-As for the LED lighting, that is standard on the "Limited Edition" models (which I think are all the 700 series, but for what we're looking at there would be no cost).
-Although not standard and probably unnecessary (I've seen the excellent threads here debating this issue), if I opt for CD ozonator, he'd install it for $295.
-Lead time for custom order is only 2-3 weeks. If the model I want is in stock in the warehouse just down the 5 freeway, I could get delivery the next day.
-The small "half step" that cuts the height of getting onto the large pro-tec step is included with the purchase.
-I'm pretty sure that if I made it a deal sealer, the rep would throw in an extra filter and probably a step up in cover foam density.
Duffman, awesome review of the Epic. I've been perusing the site over the past couple of days just waiting to see your words. It seems that some of my exact concerns regarding seating and jet diverting were confirmed in detail by your wet test.
With that in mind, I'm leaning towards the Beachcomber. Although the 750 is only around $400 more, I think we'd be happier with the 730, where two of the main corner seats don't need to be utilized as "pseudo" lounges.
Recapping, with my incentives, I'd like to be able to get the 730 for $8,940 plus tax.
That would include the Limited Edition package, additional filter, 2 lb. foam cover, coverlift, extra step, ozonator, delivery and setup. Sounds pretty tempting, especially if I could have it on the patio by the middle of next week......
How much did you guys pay for the Turbo Pump option?
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Leaky,
I paid $299 for the Turbo Option. I think if you can get what you are talking about for under $9,000 you are getting a good deal.
Mark
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Marks,
I alternate the two filters monthly, soaking them in the little canister with the brush in the centre (that Beachcomber will happily sell you). I always hose them a minimum once a week- often twice a week depending on tub use and rarely have a problem with foaming
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SLK,
Thanks for the input. That is my plan also. I have bought a spare filter, cleaning canister, Filter Pure and Filture cure. Do you know how long the pair of two filters should last?
Thanks,
Mark
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Marks,
Not sure, but I hope at least a year or two. I often wonder how much pressure I should have on the hose when I rinse them and whether I am shortening their lifespan by being too vigorous. By the way, what's a hand held jet? I've never heard of that.
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SLK,
It's a jet on a tube that fits into waterport. Fun for the kids. Check it out at the Beachcomber site:
http://www.beachcomber-spas.com/acc_hottub.cfm
I saw it for sale at Hot Tub Essentials & Spa Depot:
http://www.hottubessentials.com/spa_hand_held_jet.asp
http://www.spadepot.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=AC3000&Category_Code=
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Marks,
. By the way, what's a hand held jet? I've never heard of that.
I have one it's still in the box, I have shown it to many guests but never used it. The women think it looks like a nice "tool" though.
Ray
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Easy, Rayman.....
Are you sure you know what the significant other is doing when no one's around?
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Easy, Rayman.....
Are you sure you know what the significant other is doing when no one's around?
I will check the security tapes tonight, if they are good I will post a link. LOL
Ray
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Leaky,
Hi, i am new to this site but not tho the industry. I am curious why you compared the Caspian to the Beachcomber instead of the HS Vanguard? I think the BC is a good spa, I just wonder why not a Vanguard test vs. Caspian? Good luck and enjoy spa ownership!
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Leaky,
Hi, i am new to this site but not tho the industry. I am curious why you compared the Caspian to the Beachcomber instead of the HS Vanguard? I think the BC is a good spa, I just wonder why not a Vanguard test vs. Caspian? Good luck and enjoy spa ownership!
Please explain this question and why it would be asked?
Ray