Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: HotTubMan on August 18, 2005, 01:28:08 pm
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I was reading Duffmans accesment of the Artesian Island series tub. He commented that he felt that if he had 5-6 people in the spa, there would not be adequate pressure for everyone.
My question to all you spa owners and retailers is this:
Do you feel that it is important that you have superior jets an pressure for all seats when you have guests?
IMHO it is not needed. I beleive that you need good jetting for the regulare users. I feel this way for two reasons:
1) You wont have guests as much as you might think (I know everyone is different, this is just my observation)
2) I find when the tub is being used for socializing, it is a completely different experience. When I have guests I find myself sitting forward more, maybe enjoying a few bevy's. I also find when I have guests that we play musical chairs.
Based on those observations, I cannot justify spending more money on a spa with 10-20 jets in every seat for those times I have guests.
Discuss
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I agree with you HTM, as I usually do. Socializing is definitely different. When ever I have a single (as in one not unmarried ) ;) I'll set everything to moderate and take the time to show the person how to turn things up or down. Its kind of fun to demonstrate the toy and a good conversation starter.
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I like being able to operate all the jets are full power without any pressure loss.
Is it a must? No.
I actually find most people do not like all the jets on and do not like them at full force for any leaght of time. Typically if I have guests in my tub, it's not for therapy, but more for the enjoyment of the warm water and socializing. They may try a few different seats at full power, but after a few minutes, they turn them down.
I think 75% of the expereince is the warm water.
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Maybe I'm off base here but I would think any tub will lose pressure with more jets running: 2 jets = 1/2 pressure of 1; 4 = 1/2 of 2 and so on. I certainly can feel the difference with the diverter turned to 1 seat than sharing the water. Some tubs, Emerald, have all the jets plumbed together and there are no diverters. Most tubs have diverters and some tubs, Artesian Platinum, have pumps in each seat. I haven't been around many tubs but I doubt there is any tub on the market that turning a diverter won't cause the jets receiving the flow to get stronger.
With my family of 4, there seems to be enough pressure to go around when all pumps are running, sometimes too much. Usually though we aren't all in it at one time.
My tub is certainly not a party tub, but I would think as HotTubMan and Bill said jet pressure isn't the main concern when entertaining. I can't see anyone getting "therapy" while in a tub with 4 or 5 other people other than being in hot water as drewstar said.
I also think that a lot of power is not needed. Sometimes it starts to hurt when my tub is running with air on and the diverters set to power more than 1 seat. I think this is something you wont know untill you live with the tub - but it's something some of us newbies seek when looking for a tub.
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One thing is for sure:
If you have a spa with excellent pressure throughout and individually adjustable jets with multispeed motors, the pressure can always be turned down by individual users to get their desired therapy. Otherwise, it's tough to turn up the pressure in an underpowered tub. I agree that most social occasions find my tub with motors on low speed but there have been times that everyone wanted rigorous therapy and were able to get it. That said, 75-85% of the time, I soak alone or maybe with one other person.....but it's nice to have the options.
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HotTubMan, you are right on here. Most people end up using their spa in a much different way than what they envision before they purchase. Therapy is generally done with one or two people. Socializing is generally done without full jet power.
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Hi everyone. I just saw this thread and thought I would chime in.
I don't have any argument with the opinions stated on this thread. I can understand how my writing could come across as suggesting that I am looking for maximum power on all of the seats, but that is not quite what I was getting at. I'll try to clarify my position but completely understand if you still disagree.
I have used a variety of spas and am the type of person that likes to switch between different seats in a single hot tub session. Also, I have had many parties where everyone in the hot tub was able to get a good (not intense) massage. I have never expected high intensity from the jets in any spa when the diverter valves are balanced.
The key point I have tried to make is that some spas I wet tested just don't seem to have enough power to provide more than a mild massage when all the jets are on. Also, on some spas you do not even have the option of turning on some jets when others are active. On the other hand, I have wet tested quite a few spas that really do provide a good massage in every seat when the power is balanced.
This leads me to the following conclusion: For the spas that “pass” my Balanced Power Test, I am confident those models will provide a more intense massage than other models when the diverter valves are used to maximize pressure to one or more specific seats.
As an engineer I don’t think it makes sense to judge a spa's performance by looking at the horsepower or CFM rating of the pumps. There are too many factors that contribute to how the spa actually feels when you are sitting in it. Examples include: actual power during use vs. maximum rated power, diameter and quantity of the jets, friction resistance due to the length of plumbing lines, number of right angles in the pipes, volume of water in the spa, etc...
I firmly believe that my Balanced Power Test (Directions: set all motors to full power, balance all diverter valves, sit in every seat, and reach a conclusion based on feel) provides the consumer with the only apples-to-apples comparison of the true power offered by a spa.
To recap, in recent evaluations I found spas that both passed and failed the Balanced Power Test (by my standards of course) that are in the same price range! For me, the spas that provided better power throughout the spa are much better positioned on my list.
I believe this test can provide highly valuable information to any hot-tub shopper. It certainly could help someone make a better decision when considering a trade-off between price and power. Some people might decide to save money by purchasing a lower cost spa and using the diverters more.
I truly hope this provides clarification on how I feel about this topic. I regret any confusion resulting from my forum contributions.
Best regards,
Duffman 8)
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No problem Duff.
This thread was not meant as a rebuttle to yours.
As a spa salesperson, I do here from consumers time and again that what they thought they needed and what they find they want/use/need after buying is different.
Thats all it was about.
I know there are those that will entertain alot. I know there are those that will take advantage of 6 or more heavily powered seats.
I also know many will see things and think that they need them and after they buy, they feel differently.
I for one truly appreciate your detailed accessments of the tubs you have sampled. Keep it up!
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I hear ya Duff and agree it's an interesting test and can help one have a better understanding of what they are buying.
I too switch from seat to seat during my "regualr soaks by myself". I have all the jets and pumps on full speed. I do have the individual jets turned down (roatating the nozzle at the jet) to my ideal position.
I'm finding that it is rare that I have the both the pumps on full and the nozzles wide open at max. I only do this if I have a significant (and hurtin') "therapy" need (my shoulders and back were wrecked last weekend and the tub saved me).
But over all, 'm finding more and more I'm enjoying a softer, gentle therapy on my typical soaks.
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Hi Guys,
I really enjoyed the discussions on this topic and did not take anything written negatively. In fact, I agree with most of the conclusions. I just finished adding a clarification to my wet test topic that refers back to this one.
Thanks again!
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So is the short answer;
Find a spa that fills your desired or expected needs, feels good on the back-side and good on the pocket book.
;D ;D ;D
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Touche!
If only the process to reach that conclusion could be stated as simply :D
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I have to turn down the jets for just me. One of the seats will blow me all the way out.
When there are guests over the tub turns into a social gathering. Most people want to try out all of the different settings but all of the settings usually end up in the moderate range.
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Touche!
If only the process to reach that conclusion could be stated as simply :D
Go In, Wet test, Ask Price, Ask Yourself - Yes / No?, If Yes - Buy Spa.
Unfortunately, it can be that simple to some people but not to people who dissect everything. Being an engineer - it can't be a simple process - that's an engineer's makeup! I'm not making fun of you as I too have an engineering background.
A friend went into a store and bought one - just like that; I went to A LOT of places finding the "right tub". We are both happy with our purchases AND I don't believe anything is flawless. I have dislikes with my tub as I'm sure he does. I think I found one with more going for it - tub design, dealer, warranty and price that was suited for me, but I bet if I bought his tub - it would be just as pleasurable.
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Again I say touche!
I certainly did go overboard on this bit of research. My contribution to the world :D
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If we go with an Arctic, one of the real reasons we would go with the therapy air (Extreme model) is that it provides an enhanced hot tub experience for socialization. That way you can show off the jets, then turn them down and pop on the therapy air without worrying about fiddling with the jets. I'll worry about true therapy when it is just us. Still gotta test the Sundance Optima and D1 Diplomat, maybe the Master LS850. All three or four very different tubs. One will be the best for us.
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... is that it provides an enhanced hot tub experience for socialization.
I've got a decent vocabulary, but I have no idea what this means. Are you saying Arctic has an air blower?
-Ed
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I have found that pumps on high for new guests only, usually once they have been in the tub a few times the novelty of power has worn off and they would rather soak and have a nice conversation with the jets on low, near the end of the soak we put the jets on high and all become quite till the soak is over. We never turn any jets off always run them all except the neck jets they come on occasionally. The only time we use the diverter is to use the jets in the footwell.
Ray
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I've got a decent vocabulary, but I have no idea what this means. Are you saying Arctic has an air blower?
-Ed
Basically "therapy air" adds a blower that supposedly draws warm air from the area around the pumps and injects it through dedicated air jets. It appears to work and makes for nice change of pace from the water jets. Gimmicky? I could do without it. My wife liked it. Soooo we get it if we go with the Arctic.
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Basically "therapy air" adds a blower that supposedly draws warm air from the area around the pumps and injects it through dedicated air jets. It appears to work and makes for nice change of pace from the water jets. Gimmicky? I could do without it. My wife liked it. Soooo we get it if we go with the Arctic.
Just wanted to make sure. This is an "air blower" and lots of tubs have them. HS doesn't, but Sundance does (and they integrate it into their aromatherapy).
Sometimes there is beef on here with Arctic's sales pitch and sales people (and sometimes price). It just sounded like a very funny and marketing-speak way of saying "our tubs have an air blower".
:D
Peace!
_Ed