Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Backpains on August 01, 2005, 07:08:18 pm
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of winter!? are you kidding me? This is NOT going to be fun is it? Ok....so hubby is thinking that maybe he night hook the hose up to the sink in the kitchen and try to run some warm water into the tub, but the problem is......the hot water heater will never keep up.
So...here's my question...what is all of you that have had your tubs for a winter or two opinion on this? How do you all deal with the "tub that needs drained in -5 temps?"
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I have never drained during winter. I change the water at the end of November or early December and then again in early April. I top off with a five gallon bucket out of the kitchen sink on a weekly basis because in the NE, evaporation is greater during winter. I find summer use is dirtier use...lots of teens in and out, more bathing suits, etc. Winter, for me, is cleaner...never had a problem.
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Okay BP, it was 95 today, we don't want to think about shoveling the driveway or sitting on that cold car seat yet. I do look forward to enjoying my tub for the first winter. I guess the evaporation issue will be a bit of a pain though. I have a friend who keeps a two gallon pail near the door a dumps some in every two or three days in the winter. Later
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I'll drain end of November, or thebeginning of Decemeber then again March or April. I doubt if my kids will use it much in the winter. Should be easy to keep the water clean then.
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Even in WY you have days in the winter that are 40 or above. I just wait for one of those and go to it. The other thing you can do is just do a partial drain and fill...
BTW, be sure to forward pictures on days like that to Chas so that he can share the cold vicariously! ;) ;D
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Dont' even think of draining your spa when it's that cold.
You'll risk freezing the water in the plumbing lines, and other nasty things like that.
You won't like the damage frozen water will do to your spa.
I change my water as late into October or November (40 degrees) as I can get away with, then hope for the best until early March.
I think Bill does partial water changes in the winter, and that seems to be a pretty good alternative.
But we do okay going the winter on one water change.
We end up adding a lot more make up water in the winter anyway- I think evaporation takes more in the drier winter air.
Brewman
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I don't really need to answer, but when has that stopped me? I would combine most of the post so far, and add that during the cold months, if we get a brief period where the temps go above 32 I do partial water changes. I can easily drain off 100 gallons which I can do quickly without turning off the power. I really feel this helps me get through the 3-4 months of really cold weather.
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Ok...first off...remember folks I AM using my tub alot more than ya'll....and in the winter it will be worse since my hips and knees chime in with pain also......second off it NEVER gets above 40 degress in the winter around here maybe 30 but never 40 or better! Thirdly....if I change water in Dec..then wait until april to change my water will be Horendous!!! think about it folks..I use my tub 4-5 times a day! so....where is your logic now?
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Your only choice may be partial water changes on every week. Fill with hot water the best you can to keep the temps up.
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Power down and totally drain your spa in sub zero temperatures at your risk. At those temps, water will freeze very quickly.
Brewman
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I've used my tub that often too, many times - and never had a problem - I just made sure that I was clean getting in. At the end of the day I would add dichlor. I'm not sure why your water would be so bad just because you use it more often. Wouldn't you using your tub several times a day be the same as several people using it once a day??? Lots of people do that and don't have the problems you're having. Sounds to me - and this is just my opinion - like you're putting too much stuff in your water unnecessarily and causing problems. A hot tub shouldn't be work - it should be something to enjoy. And they really don't take much work to keep them sparkling.
Susan
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Ok..lets make sure you all understand this...I don't put to many chems in my hot tub..in fact I'm just adding what the dealer told me to add! I do my bromine concentrate as needed basis and my pucks once every 7 days I throw in 2-3 pucks into the feeder. I've stopped adding the clarifier so that should help..and my levels are just where they need to be. Yes I do realize that it's hot temps but....winter isn't to far away and I will indead have to deal with this problem very soon. But, I've decided after reading all these posts that I'm not going to ask an opinion from some of you any longer...I seem to be getting the same response...which is....."Stop adding so many chemicals to the tub" and my personal favorite "stop adding Bromine and switch to dichlor"
I just thought it would be interesting to see what the responses I would get from this question but apparently it seems that some of you would just like to critisize my actions with every chem I add. So..I've decided that maybe it's best that I stay in the background and just lurk from now on and not make anymore "Stupid" comments or questions!
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So...here's my question...what is all of you that have had your tubs for a winter or two opinion on this? How do you all deal with the "tub that needs drained in -5 temps?"
Backpains-
You asked for advice and OPINIONS and you got it.
The only other alternatives I can think of are moving your spa indoors, thereby negating the winter temperature problem, or erecting a plastic construction shield around your spa, and blasting enough heat into it to keep the air around your spa warm enough to do a sub zero water change. Either of those ideas useful to you? Other than that, I'm tapped out.
When you drain your spa you have to shut off the power or you'll burn out your heater. Without the heater, the only thing keeping your spa from freezing is the heat in the large mass of water. Loose that heat by draining that water, and the water remaining in the plumbing could freeze very quickly. Frozen water expands with great force, cracking lines, pipes, pumps, etc..... Not worth the risk unless it's an emergency, IMHO.
Instead of dealing with that risk, most of us choose to do what we've already told you.
If you can think of something better, please share.
Brewman.
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In Breckenridge CO we maintain ruffly 100 + spas on a weekly basis. We drain and fill spas more in the winter then the summer. The reason is more people are useing the spa. Usually 10-20 people renting a house for the week. At the end of there stay the tubs get pretty bad.
We use a sump pump to drain the spa (takes 15 mins). Clean the filter/filters, clean the shell. Then fill the spa right after. We have never incured a problem. However make sure you fill the spa right after you drain the tub.
Michael
www.HeavenlyTimes.com
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and my personal favorite "stop adding Bromine and switch to dichlor"
That's my favorite too! ;)
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I suppose another possibility would be do a drain while adding fresh water at the same time, keeping the water level high enough to feed the heater, and eventually you'd cycle the water clean, or clean enough. Not terribly efficient, though. And the thought of messing around like that in below zero temps? No thanks.
Brewman
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In Breckenridge CO we maintain ruffly 100 + spas on a weekly basis. We drain and fill spas more in the winter then the summer. The reason is more people are useing the spa. Usually 10-20 people renting a house for the week. At the end of there stay the tubs get pretty bad.
We use a sump pump to drain the spa (takes 15 mins). Clean the filter/filters, clean the shell. Then fill the spa right after. We have never incured a problem. However make sure you fill the spa right after you drain the tub.
Michael
www.HeavenlyTimes.com
See now this was the opinion that I was looking for....I mean ok..I use my tub alot more than anyone else on this board (or at least I think I do) and I need to know if it's going to be detremential to my spa to drain and refill in the winter if I HAVE to...this is not saying I will have to...remember gang I along with many others here on this board are NEWBIES!!! We will and have screwed up our chemestry and had to drain and refill just some prefer not to let you all know when they screw up. I was just mearly asking if I had to how would this affect my tub..do I need to take any precautions.
P.S. I'm sorry if I got or get a little snippity with anyone or hurt any feelings today..my back is really giving me fits and it's to damned hot to go out and soak!
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At -5 degrees that water is going to freeze almost instantly once you drain it. Also, how long does it take you to fill the spa? By the time the tub is ready to be started, lines will be frozen.
My advice/opinion would be to call your local dealer and ask them to do it. If they wouldn't do it, then you shouldn't do it. If they would do it, let them take the liability. It will be worth the money to not have to worry about it.
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See now this was the opinion that I was looking for....I mean ok..I use my tub alot more than anyone else on this board (or at least I think I do) and I need to know if it's going to be detremential to my spa to drain and refill in the winter if I HAVE to...this is not saying I will have to...remember gang I along with many others here on this board are NEWBIES!!! We will and have screwed up our chemestry and had to drain and refill just some prefer not to let you all know when they screw up. I was just mearly asking if I had to how would this affect my tub..do I need to take any precautions.
P.S. I'm sorry if I got or get a little snippity with anyone or hurt any feelings today..my back is really giving me fits and it's to damned hot to go out and soak!
I find it amusing (and a wee bit annoying) that you asked for opinions and advice on what WE DO to our spas in the winter, then upon getting this information, cast it aside until you get told what you wanted to hear in the first place. Then berate us for giving you wrong opinions? ::)
Personally, you can keep your apology. Using the fact that you were in pain as an excuse to be rude to those who were only trying to help you gets old.
I applogize if this hurts your feelings.
Brewman
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I find it amusing (and a wee bit annoying) that you asked for opinions and advice on what WE DO to our spas in the winter, then upon getting this information, cast it aside until you get told what you wanted to hear in the first place. Then berate us for giving you wrong opinions? ::)
Personally, you can keep your apology. Using the fact that you were in pain as an excuse to be rude to those who were only trying to help you gets old.
I applogize if this hurts your feelings.
Brewman
I was not trying to berate, annoy, tick off, anger, ormake anyone feel badlt brewman. I won't appoligize to those who have made me feel like an idiot for asking simple questions and getting answers that are assumationsof how I'm caring for my tub or what I use for a sanitizer. You've been nothing but nice up until now brewman and for that I do feel bad that what I've said has upset you, for this I am sorry.
But, the answer still was what I was looking for, I wanted to know from someone who has used their tub alot during the winter and has had temps that were in the single digits (you have to realize that usually during the winters here the temps stay in the single digits) how they drained their tubs if they needed to. I'm not saying that gee it's winter here and I'm going to drain my tub when it's -5 below cause I refuse to do that, I was saying and trying to get across that I wanted to know this info just in case!
Now the comment that I can keep my appoligy and that I USE my pain level as an excuse to be rude to people...do you know this to be a fact brewman? Have I been rude before??? Because I don't mean to and if you were in as much pain as I am...you'd be a little unnerved about things too. I don't think that it's nice to say things like this. Sorry you can just keep your attitude and your comments to yourself if you don't like what I say..then just tell me to go away and I will!
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BP I am also a newby. However I would like to suggest that a little common sense should be given to your problem. I also live in a northern climate (ND) that is substantially further north than you and we always have days over 40 degrees in the coldest part of winter which is usually January and February. Based upon this I think it would be obvious that you decide to drain the tub based upon the forcast and start at around 11 am giving you the warmest part of the day to drain and re-fill. I would also suggest a sump pump in addttion to using the drain plug. My tub holds about 600 gallons of water and can be drained in 30 minutes with a sump pump alone. I can refill my tub using a standard 5/8" garden hose in 1 hour and 20 minutes. Be sure to have your garden hose directly connected to your outdoor spigot without a valve or anything that would reduce the interior dimensions of the hose and reduce your flow. I would also have to think that once the water is circulating and heating the chance of having a freeze up is minimal. I keep a 100' of hose in my heated garage all year round in the event we get a day when we can wash the car(s) and I wob't have to worry about a stiff garden hose. I personally have no fear of dumping my tub this winter! Good luck!
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Im gonna have to agree with Brewman here. I found it funny that as soon as you heard that someone did drain a tub in the winter, that they had a valid opinion.
Also,
"Because I don't mean to and if you were in as much pain as I am...you'd be a little unnerved about things too."
and
"P.S. I'm sorry if I got or get a little snippity with anyone or hurt any feelings today..my back is really giving me fits and it's to d**ned hot to go out and soak!"
seem like excuses. They may be valid, but they still seem like excuses. The best analagy for the responses you received is like making sure that the little kid that is looking at the hot pan will not touch it. Make SURE they know the consequences of their actions and that they should avoid it at all costs. Although it seems like people were being rough on you, they/I wanted to make sure you got the point that draining the spa in the winter is a risky situation.
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Not to worry Backpains, your tub is inside for one, and we sell and fill new tubs out here in western N.D. all winter long. We can't always pick and choose what the weather will be like on those days. We've never had a problem with a fresh fill freezing up.
Do your drain and refill early in the day. Purcahse a little in-car 900 watt car heater. That way if something happens like an air lock, you can take a panel off and put the heater in there and it will maintain you spa water above freezing until your dealer can get out there from Montana to service you. Not that this is something for you to worry about, (we've had very few air locks on Colemans in the past,) but consider the in-car heater kind of like an insurance since your dealer is not right in the area where you live.
Oh don't stay lurking for too long because you add valuable and very real questions and experiences to the board. Thats what this forum is all about.
Spahappy :D
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Sorry to post two times in a row but I just read another one of your posts Backpains and realized that you don't have an ozinator installed on your 461.
I know there are two sides and two different opinions on ozinators and I don't want to start that whole business going again.
I beleive in ozone and we have it installed in every tub we sell, no choice, it's a company policy. My ozone went out on my old Coleman spa and I noticed the difference in not only my water quality but the amount of sanitizer that was required.
Perhaps next time your dealer is in the area you can have him install an ozone system on your spa. It's more money on the front side but in the end I feel it will save you on chems and water changes.
Please feel free to pm me if you have any questions on any issues with your Coleman I'd be happy to help if I can.
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I beleive in ozone and we have it installed in every tub we sell, no choice, it's a company policy.
Excellent advice in my opinion but I'd add that I think the extra cost to go witha good CD ozone is also key (I'm not a big fan of the UV type).
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Why thank you, that means a lot comming from you ;)
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Thank you spahappy, I appreciate your honest answers. If I have to drain the hot tub I have one of those little heaters that go on a propane tank, and also my hot tub is inside an enclosed area so I don't feel this is going to be a problem, if I have to I'll have hubby carry either buckets of hot water to the tub or hook another line straight from the kitchen sink to heat the water enough that it won't freeze up. I want to get an ozonator on the Coleman, it's just coming up with the fundage to get it put on, that will come in time along with about forty other things that need fixed (ie. the roof is leaking, the sinks need updated and I truly would like central air but that ain't coming for at least 24 months) Anyway.....I'm to tired and in to much pain to argue any longer with any of you so I'll just go to the shadows and lurk for awhile.
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Hang in there Backpains hope you feel better soon
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My "dealer" had us adding all kinds of junk to the tub, it was some regime from Leisure Time and every other day you are dumping a dif chem in there. The only time I have had water trouble was in following that advice. We drained the tub, then followed the Vermonter/Northman routine on rhtubs and I've not ever had a water issue again. KISS...keep it simple, stupid...has worked great for us. No scum line, no cloudy water, no odors, no foam. I add only dichlor, a bit of pH up every 8-10 days (dichlor use will drag the pH down some over time) Spa defender every other week and maybe once a month a splash of clarifier. Thats it.
I'm not saying you are adding too much stuff, but the "dealer" doesnt always know exactly whats best for you. As far you using your tub 5-6times more than normal, I dont get that comment really. I have a family of 5: 3 teen boys and us parents. We dont get in tub together...so there are like 4 separate trips to the tub in a single day, each lasting at least 30-45min. Wouldnt that be the same as you yourself using the tub 3-5x daily?
I will say that rinsing swimsuits and being careful not to introduce all kinds of sunscreens , body lotions and potions and hair products will help alot in keeping water clean and clear.
Please dont get defensive when others are just offering you their opinions and advice. Good luck to you this winter.
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Backpains,
I only have a bit more experiance than you do and have only gone through on winter in northern Wisconsin. And it get's pretty cold here too when the Alberta Clipper comes through. I changed my water on Halloween day I did not change it until mid May. I can hear some people now "yuk". Well, I can tell you it was NOT a problem. My water was excellent ! I was rinsing my filters weekly and every 2 months I would swap the filters out with a fresh clean set of filters. I use Soft Soak and only put 6oz of chemicals in a week. I have my water tested by my dealer about every 3 to 4 weeks. I only add what I am instructed to do by my dealer.
I do not use my hot tub as much as you do but look at the distance of time I went through. Since I learned the hard way with a little of this and a little of that I was changing my water every 4 to 8 weeks. My current batch of water has been in my hot tub since mid May and zero and I mean zero water chemical problems.
I agree with all of the advice you have received. If you feel you must change your water in the depth of winter. Get an expert opionon on the condition of your water first. You just might find out you can hold off for a thawing spell to come around.
If you feel you must change your water in -5 temps and things don't go as planned. Well I will just leave it at this. Don't buy yourself any trouble. And last of all what if you slip and fall out side and no one is around to help you. Think about it!
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After talking with my husband about the winter schedule for dumping the tub. We are in hopes that the problems we are having with keeping our water fresh and clean are behind us now. As you all know being a newbie to the hot tub world means making a few mistakes both drains were of my mistakes I added clarifier the first time and the second when I had to drain so...I think not adding the clarifier will probably help alot. What we are going to do is drain and refill about november and see how long it will last, if we have to dump during the winter we will wait for a nice day hopefully 40 or better degrees.
To everyone who gave me advice, to which you thought I was mean, or rude to I am truly sorry for my statements! You all have truly been a god send with this task of trying to figure out this darned hot tub process and chems are getting easier because of you all! So...I'm truly sorry for my actions I do hope you can forgive me and we can move past this!
Thanks
BP
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Backpains,
I go away for a while and you're in trouble already ;D
You have an out building, isn't it near the house, I'd say and let me stress "if you absolutely need to drain the tub", use the heater like someone suggested, and if the house is close enough, they sell a hose system for fish tanks it syphons to the sink and when your done it refills same hose. Phython I think it's called.
To everyone, try to relax a bit, people have bad days all the time, with zero excuses. And some people are just plain rotten. We all know backpains is not one of those so maybe we could cut her a little slack. And if you don't want to hear what everyone thinks (good, bad and indifferent around here, don't ask.
Stay cool people 8)
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By the time you have to worry about sub zero water changes, you won't be such a newbie any more, and will likely have your water issues under control long before then.
But if the worst case scenario plays out, you now know about your options and associated risks in water changes in drastically cold temperatures.
Brewman