Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Campsalot on July 12, 2005, 09:58:39 pm
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Help!!!! I have great tub, Sundance Maxxus. Yes, I'm a new newby I am so new at this stuff. Unfortunatley, my dealer is less than happy to help with newby things like chemicals.
We have had the tub 5 weeks now, works great. We have the water temp at a cool 96 because of the heat and humidty we have had here. I have had a large pool int he past so I'm familiar with water chemistry at pool temps 72 to 84 degrees.
I have been adding bromine powder to my tub after each use and tablets in between I also shock it once a week. Now I have a ring around my tub. Yes, I have other chemicals; anti scale, anti foam, water clarifier, ph dcereaser and increaser.
Tonight I wiped the ring off, started one of the pumps and the ring came back .
What is the seceret to great water care so these rings and things don't happen? My PH is 7.2, Bromine is fine, and total alkalinity is right where it should be. What is the secret. What chemicals should I add and when?
Please wise dealers who care about their customers, show me the way of the ringless.
Thanks folks! I really need some help!
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What level do you keep your bromine at?
What do you shock with?
Do you have an ozone generator?
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well first off congrats on the new tub. I am not all that familiar with Bromine as I use dichlor. I too get a faint ring around my tub (water line area). Which I think is fairly normal. I use my water water clarifier / scale preventer on a cloth and wipe it off. I usually have to do this once a month or so.
I am sorry to hear your dealer will not take the time or is less then happy to help you out. I would honestly be very upset with my dealer. This was my first tub and my dealer was MORE then happy to coach me along and is still there 100%. Sorry that just upsets me to hear that. I am sure they were more then happy to help you buy the tub.
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ITs possible the foam out and clarifier caused the junk in your water to coagulate and form a ring. Wipe it off, rinse the filters and see if it comes back. Almost everyone goes through this initially.
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I use a CD ozonator in my Optima, along with a weekly dose of Bromine tabs, shock and stain control.
I found I was having scum/ring buildup around the tub, like you.
So last go around, I have tried adding a natural enzyme cleaner, and the problem has appeared to have been solved.
Check it out :)
BTW are you one of those RVers, or a "real camper"? (we have a Terry 30 foot trailer)
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Congratulations on your new tub. Sounds like you need to find a chemical supplier other than the dealer who sold you the tub. Your pH is somewhat low. 7.4 to 7.8 would be better. The ring can be removed by using a bit of baking soda as a scouring powder. It is not abrasive and it will also raise your pH. I find that the ring needs attention about once every 3 to 4 weeks, but your usage and water chemistry could vary.
Bill
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Your pH is somewhat low. 7.4 to 7.8 would be better.
Bill, it seems that you and I are usually on the same page on chemistry issues, but I prefer pH in the 7.1-7.5 range. This is primarily because my water source is naturally high pH, and my main challenge is to get pH down and keep it there, but I have also always assumed that closer to neutral is better. I also shoot for a 7.2 since Chlorine is more effective at lower pH. I can understand keeping levels a little higher to make sure you don't overdo it and end up with an "acid tub", but is there another reason to be a little higher in the pH range?
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Regarding my dealer, yes, I am really disappointed. He seems to get annoyed when I ask newby questions. If I had to do it over, I would have found another Sundance dealer and bought from them. This has been one of those "jeez, I wish I had known that" experiences. I could tell you so many things about how this guy has caused problems from getting a damaged cover (still have it), to not acknowledging that other contoured steps are available and forcing me to these plastic things we currently have (hiring a carpenter to build custom redwood steps). Nope, I won’t go into details about customer services because I work customer service every day and get real passionate about it.
Back to the ring thing, I also think showering before entering the tub would be a BIG help. After I posted this I read a few other posts and it is obvious that showering prior to use is mentioned very frequently.
Thanks again everyone!
BTW: 30' Terry fifth wheel. Yep, that makes me a RV'r. Although I am passionate about camping in primitive areas without water or eletricity. They are always more scenic and less congested. I do though have a generator and a external 60 gallon water tank. So, yes that makes me even more of a "Pamper Camper"
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Regarding the PH. When we had our pool I was always fighting descending PH levels. Now, I'm faced with this again. The way I was taught about water chemistry was that consistent use of any sanitizer will lower PH. When I did ask the dealer for PH increaser he said; "Why would you need that? No one ever adds that." That was my first indication that this guy had not sold that many tubs in my city. Am I doing something wrong?
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I will agree with the earlier post from Bill.
You should try to keep your pH around 7.6 - 7.8.
Baking Soda is a decent cleaner also.
We use an Enzyme Cleaner ( Scum Digester )
to clean the occasional water-line build-up
in our showroom. Simple squirt a little on a tub
scrubber of clean cloth an wipe up and out.
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I will agree with the earlier post from Bill.
You should try to keep your pH around 7.6 - 7.8.
I realize we are only talking tenths here, but I'm curious, why do you prefer the pH higher than 7.5?
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It seems, based on our observations, that sanitizers especially chlorine, work better
Also our customer's pay a little closer attention to those numbers. Since there is a color tab on the test strips that is at 7.6.
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It seems, based on our observations, that sanitizers especially chlorine, work better
It has been awhile since I researched this, but my understanding is that below a pH of 7.5, chlorine is primarily present as Hypochlorous Acid which is a more effective sanitizer. Above pH 7.5 it is primarily Hypochlorite Ion, which is still a sanitizer, but not nearly as effective as the acid form.
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Soakin is right on. When using chlorine, you should shoot for 7.2. This will promote the best ratio of hypochlorous acid to hypochlorite ions.
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ring around the tub is something I'm dealing with also. My dealer is sending down some enzyme tabs..so hopefully that will be the end of ring around the tub...I mean don't get me wrong I like rings: gold..........silver....maybe a nice gem in it...but ring around the tub is as bad as ring around the collor eeeewwwwwwwww LOLOLOL ;D Ok...now I've babbled enough.
BP
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Now I have yet another newby question? How often does the average tub owner change thier water? My wife and I use our tub 4 to 5 times a week. We have had this 5 weeks and now the dealer says change the water. He said this today after I went in to get some PH decreaser and natural enzyme to kill the ring. He feels the detergentys from our swim wear adds soap to the water and creates the foam and the scum line. I may actually have bought this should we wash our suits each time. However, we have not washed the suits but once. We wear the same ones and don't wash them because we have been told that this can casue chemistry issues.
Tonight I attempted to conquer the dreaded scum line. I added a natural enzyme and cleaned the line wiith baking soda. I then fired up both pumps and got a lot of foam. I added the anti foam, shut off the jets and the *^%$ ring came back! AAARGH! Shall I drain the water and start from scratch??? Help!! Granted the enzyme will take time to work....so tomorrow that lring better be toast! Looking forward to reading your responses and thanks again everyone!
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If everything else is OK and the ring is from body oils and stuff like that and not metals the enzyme should work, but it takes some time. I had the ring after the first use and foam - WOW. I read about Spa Perfect (enzyme) and bought some it disappeared in a day but the water was brand new.
Now with the addition of it on a weekly basis I don't get any foam even when my youngest goes in with shorts (with underwear).
But it has been said many times here - the best chemical is fresh water. I would say that if it's not too expensive to change the water.
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I've said it on here before but my water line stain was caused by improper Calcium Hardness.
Are there test strips that test for Calcium Hardness?
I use the Taylor Test Kit and it is an easy test.
Twice I filled my tub and both times I received the scum line until I balanced my Calcium Hardness. Never had a problem since.
Drain your water and refill. It’s not that big of deal and does not take long.
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Soakin' wrote "I can understand keeping levels a little higher to make sure you don't overdo it and end up with an "acid tub", but is there another reason to be a little higher in the pH range?"
Although dichlor is mostly neutral, it does tend to decrease pH anyway, and bromine is quite acidic and much more likely to affect pH downward. Hence the addition of sanitizer tends to cause pH to drop over time no matter which is used. Most people sweat in their tubs and this too can cause pH to decrease. So, generally, for most situations, it would be normal to expect pH to drop over time. Your results may vary with the water you start with, the sanitizer used, the quantity of chemical used, the frequency of tubbing, your own body chemistry, and diet etc.
You are correct that dichlor is more effective as a sanitizer at lower pH and in fact would be quite better at somewhere around 6.8. The problem is that the mechanicals such as pumps, seals, and heaters would be chemically attacked at this level. So exactly where to set PH is somewhat of a balancing act. If you are carefully monitoring and adjusting your pH day to day, then your 7.1 to 7.5 target would be great. For people who might check pH once a week or so, pH could drift down, it would be kinder on the equipment to initially set pH at 7.4 to 7.8 even though the dichlor sanitizing performance is not optimal at that level. The thinking is that pH would tend to drift down, but by starting a little on the high side would not risk corrosion to expensive equipment.
Regards,
Bill
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... pH could drift down, it would be kinder on the equipment to initially set pH at 7.4 to 7.8 even though the dichlor sanitizing performance is not optimal at that level...
Bill, I'll very respectfully disagree, if only a little. As previously stated, I'd rather be closer to a neutral pH and use less dichlor (in a more effective form) to sanitize the tub. In my experience, pH drifts slowly (0.1/week) and I don't think you have to start that high unless you aren't going to watch it at all. A tablespoon of soda ash or baking soda when you get down to 7.1 pops it right back up, so corrosion should never be an issue.
My regards as well,
Cal
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Cal,
I see no disagreement between us. Remember that everyone's results are going to vary a bit.
Regards,
Bill
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This issue has been solved. I changed my water which was really simple. I drained it overnight, wet vac the remaining water, cleaned the tub with stain and scale, rinsed and wet vac again. I did not soak the filter because I have Sundance Maxxus with the Microclean Filter. I did flush it out with the hose though. The line is gone! We have also mandated showering prior to tubbing. No more wax, hear gel, hair spray, cosmetics, and /or other interesting body gobily gook! Now I want to see how long the water will last.
I alos bought a full Taylor water test kit so I can test all levels, not just PH, Bromine, and alkalinity. Yes, I plan to become a water chemist extrordinar! Thanks everyone for your posts!
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This issue has been solved. I changed my water which was really simple. I drained it overnight, wet vac the remaining water, cleaned the tub with stain and scale, rinsed and wet vac again. I did not soak the filter because I have Sundance Maxxus with the Microclean Filter. I did flush it out with the hose though. The line is gone! We have also mandated showering prior to tubbing. No more wax, hear gel, hair spray, cosmetics, and /or other interesting body gobily gook! Now I want to see how long the water will last.
I alos bought a full Taylor water test kit so I can test all levels, not just PH, Bromine, and alkalinity. Yes, I plan to become a water chemist extrordinar! Thanks everyone for your posts!
The Taylor test kit is awsome and really easy to use. I love it!