Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: msgreek on June 30, 2005, 01:40:45 am
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This forum is fantastic! There is so much help and product information but now my head is spinning more than before finding this site. To keep my sanity I will stick to either Sundance’s Maxxus or Cameo OR Jacuzzi’s 365 or 385. I’m figuring 500-1000 dollars difference will not bury me.
My question is how can I do a wet test on a specific model if a dealer only has one model filled? Is it proper to ask the dealer to fill a spa or should I just call around for the model already filled? Sorry for what might be an adolescent question but I’m a total newbie with spas. :-[
Common sense is telling me the most important features are the overall fit of the individual seats, the jet’s functioning or affects and lastly the warranty. My original concern is if either the Jacuzzi or Sundance had multiple consumer complaints? Any suggestion would be welcome.
Thank you.
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A wet test is a must. Before I wet tested I thought that I wanted a lounger and really was impressed by the Hot springs moto massage. After wet testing the Hot springs Envoy I immediately decided that I did not want a lounger, and was not really impressed with the moto massager. Its just a matter of personal preference. Some people can't live without the moto massager, but for me I can take or leave it. There is a hot springs dealer about 1 mile from my house, but they did not have an envoy for wet testing. Fortunately there is another hot springs dealer about 45 minutes from my house that had the Envoy wet. The dealer had no problem with me going across town for a wet test. If you are going to spend 8000 or more on a tub don't be shy about insisting on a wet test. Don't make the mistake of not wet testing. I had my heart set on the Envoy until I wet tested. I ended up getting the sundance majesta because I loved the center foot massager and the cool down seating. The wife liked the waterfall and lighting, and when they mentioned the aroma therapy feature there was no changing her mind. If your dealer does not have the model you want wet, then look for another dealer who has it. Even if it is a couple hour drive, it will be worth the trip.
Frankeyboy
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Frankeyboy,
Thank you very much for the information. It seems logical to spend the extra time driving to a location for a wet-test on a specific model. I just wasn't sure if the dealer wouild fill the model if on display empty. It would probably be a better selling point if a dealer had more than one wet-tester :o.
Guess I'll be driving around the county today.
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I had my heart set on theHS Envoy but my local dealer didn't have it filled and wouldn't fill it when I asked claiming that their other HS tubs were similar. Testing the other tubs only made me more convinced that the Envoy was the one. Found a dealer that had one filled and tested it there. Ended up buying it there as well. BTW it was not like the other tubs - it was much better for us.
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Heh. Bottom line response: If *that* spa is *the same* or *so similar* to *this* one, as you claim,, then why does your manufacturer waste so much money making it, then? Hm? :)
If location and other things suit, I'd definitely give your money to the dealer that actually wants to help you decide by testing the one you want!
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When I was shopping, two of the dealers filled tubs (that weren't filled when I first went in) to let me test the models I was really, seriously interested in! I would ask, first, the worst they can do is tell you no.
None of my dealers told me no!
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Help me out here, :-/ This is a general reflection of the many threads on this board recently. What is it that sellers can do for consumers to earn your trust and business, and consumers what can you do for sellers to help them earn your consideration.
A dealer with a business overhead to support two store locations 30 minutes apart with employee payroll and 16 different models on display, with each store having 2 of the 4 most popular models available for wet testing, representing one with a lounge and one without a lounge at each store. That leaves 14 models with out water that over the year someone is interested in each model some more than others.
Can you see my problem here. As a consumer, what do you want a dealer to do? ???
Of course, you are going to say that you would like to wet test the particular model that you are interested in and the next shopper would as well, like to wet test again a different model.
All models would have to rotate as each shopper chooses to wet test a different model every day. ::)
Yet you all, shop without a committment to buy, because you have not wet tested all of the manufacturers, or the different models of those manufacturers that you THINK you may have an interest in. :-/
OH YES, we all want the cheapest or most competetive price with all the extras free and NOT included in the price, delivered with everything installed and of course with both excellent and superior service on demand,
And if not attended to as expected, you chastize the dealers operation with a posting of regret about how you are handled and or offended, and you send a memo off to the owner to achieve personal satisfaction and gratification. :-X
No wonder consumers don't like the profit mongering sellers who are sometimes referred to as something less than respectable human beings that can not be trusted and who are looking to profit excessively on a sale.
While the dealers are trying to appeal to the shopping consumers to represent quality goods, fair pricing, and superior and considerate customer service.
As I read these posts, I am perplexed to understand how any consumer could or would ever consider being a seller in this type of business. Much less for that matter, why any dealer wants to be in this business, oh my gosh I almost forgot, the excessive profits and the unending love of taking the indignant and abusive attitudes of self centered and untrusting individuals. WOW.
Dealers are vilified by shopping consumers here on this board and new shopping consumers are led to believe this is the natural way of doing business.
No wonder so many of the dealers come in and go out of business as they do while manufacturers threaten them with extinction and termination unless they get their marketshare. I guess that makes this a dog eat dog type of business that has little respect for each other.
I wish I could make it different, but how could that be done? ???
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J. McD
Unfortunately, I do not have the time to read your post again just to confirm my original opinion of your viewpoint. As a very successful 20-year self employed individual I often reflect back on my business strategies. My first priority was NOT only how to bring in my customers but most importantly how to keep their business or attaining referrals. My product’s consumer cost is much less than the dollar amount of a spa therefore dealt with volume in customers count.
No need for complaint about overhead cost, payroll or time traveling to and from other spa locations owned. I too worked 70 hours weekly, covering for employees who rather have a 3-day weekend rather than working on a holiday, then dealing with customers asking for everything under the sun.
The formula for a successful spa dealer should be pretty clear. When the consumer purchases an item with an average price of $6,000 or more the consumer has all due right not only to be selective but also satisfied with their ultimate decision. This is especially more difficult since the consumer knows once a spa is purchased it cannot be returned.
Finally, if the consumer tries to purchase something at a better price I’m positive YOU would do the SAME if given the opportunity. P.S…..my spa salesperson went the extra yard and was very happy to fill the unit I was interested in.
Guess what J. McD; today I paid the $9,000 cash for the unit. Not only am I very happy with my selection in the spa but also acknowledge without the customer service from the salesperson I would still be confused and without a spa. Not only was my spa decision very easy but I will most definitely refer family and friends to the same salesperson.
I am truly sorry if I misunderstood your post but if I didn’t then perhaps you should reconcile your reasoning for referring to a consumer based business.
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Ok…back to the spa issue ;D
Thanks to everyone who helped with strategies and information for my spa purchase. I did call around to find a dealer with a wet-test for the models of interest. As luck had it today my local spa dealer was more than happy to accommodate me with Jacuzzi’s 385 model. The moment I got in the unit I knew it was the one. The jets were in perfect position; multi-foot jets, hamstring, and wrist jets – wow!
Again, thanks so much to everyone who helped with my confusion. I will still continue reading this forum but this time for other spa related info like water chemicals, water temps and of course where to find the rubber duckies. ;)
Wishing a great 4th of July to everyone…. (too bad my spa won’t be delivered till July 14)
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Congrats, It is our hope and the belief of many that wet testing allows you to buy with the confidence of knowing that you got something that is right for you. For you, the hard part is over, and the rest is easy. We will welcome hearing all that you have to say about your new Jacuzzi.
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wet test is a must!
its unfortunate that a dealer you spoke with would not fill the tub you wanted to test. kinda like a car dealer not wanting to put gas in a car, so you could drive it......
i can understand, to a point, a dealer wanting to make sure you are a serious buyer before going to a lot of trouble, but wouldn't the fact that some one says they want to wet test the tub, show they are serious?
this is for the dealers on the board...
out of curiousity, do you have a lot of people actually wet test who are not serious shoppers? is filling a tub, with chems of course, a costly process? i remember seeing an older post that some one uses a pump to move water from one spa to another for wet testing......
from other hotly debated posts here, several dealers have referred to the fact, that the retail price has long term service needs built in.this is not neccessarily a bad thing, just business.
my buisiness also takes into acct the long term service needs, as well as general overhead, trucks, etc... all these factors determine our retail prices. i am not santa clause and i dont expect a tub dealer to be.
as a consumer, there some very valid points brought up here. i spent $8k on my tub. that a lot of $, so i wanted to be absolutely sure i got the right tub for me (and the wife of course).
its up to you and i, as consumers, to decide if we want to pay the price for an item that we want. period. its my money. if i want to spend 8k on a spa, i will research it thoroughly, and a wet test is a must. if i want to spend $5k on a piece of canvas that an "artist" flung handfuls of his own @&^% on, i can do that to. price is relative to value. to each his own. i have a good friend who told me he thought i must have lost my mind, to spend what i did for my tub, and of course pointed out that home depot has one for only $3995?!. thats his choice. i made mine, spent the money, and would do it all over again....
if you want a 32" regular tv, walmart has an off brand for $279. sony still sells a 32" for $600-700. you can buy anything in between, pricewise. why? QUALITY!
the spa industry should be the same way.
there will always be some disreputable dealer around, as in any other industry, but probably not long term. as with any biz, if you consistently screw the public, the public will catch on, and you biz will go away. (some do take longer than others)
CONGRATS ON YOUR DECISION! happy soaking.....
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J.MCD I never looked at it in the shoes of a dealer before. I think as a consumer, I want the best deal and will pay the one that gives me the best service and deal. Sometimes you have to settle on best service and a little higher price.
I guess when you pay 5 to 10k on a product there is a sense of security knowing that you really went out of your way to get the best price.
You cant take offence or take it personal here, its the type of employment you chose for yourselelf. Sales guys are always viewed as shady people that always have a gimic and are never honest. It is like lawyers, how many people can say something positive about them. They are all painted with the same brush.
What you are asking ultimately is how can one change a consumers perception. The problem is that poor aggressive sales tactics in the past have created the reputation that people in your type of business have. Dishonest sales people making people feel insecure about their purchase have created this sense of distrust that you are feeling.
Now you are effected by this backlash of consumers pushing you as far as they can. We want to wet test, we want to know everything about the product before we purchase. This way we go in and say, this is what I want and this is what I know I have to pay.
I bet that you can tell the difference between a consumer that knows nothing and one that knows everything. I would assume as a sales person, you would treat the two a little different. You would have to. After spending over a year testing and researching, I went in and knew exactly how far to push and the sales guy did not even have to work for the sale.
I really wish that things could be different for you. I think it is unfair that good people and owners are chastised as much as they are. Its funny, I just had a little arguement with someone on here the other day. I complained that I thought that it was unfair to post negative feedback about a dealer as a new member of this forum. I was chastised and eventually the post was erased.
So your question, what can be done. You cant do much, just keep aiming to please without compromising your business. A sale helps, but dont be affraid to pass if you feel a consumer is pushing to much. If somebody wants it bad enough they will get it. We as consumers have to learn that there are limits. It would be nice to see dealers come onside with one another and offer fair competitive pricing standard accross the board in one particular area.
Where I am from I could have bought a sundance maxxus for 4100can cheaper from a dealer just outside of my city. Things like this make it difficult to trust someone.
Just my thoughts, I feel your pain. Thanks for a different look on things.
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Help me out here, :-/ This is a general reflection of the many threads on this board recently. What is it that sellers can do for consumers to earn your trust and business, and consumers what can you do for sellers to help them earn your consideration.
A dealer with a business overhead to support two store locations 30 minutes apart with employee payroll and 16 different models on display, with each store having 2 of the 4 most popular models available for wet testing, representing one with a lounge and one without a lounge at each store. That leaves 14 models with out water that over the year someone is interested in each model some more than others.
Can you see my problem here. As a consumer, what do you want a dealer to do? ???
Of course, you are going to say that you would like to wet test the particular model that you are interested in and the next shopper would as well, like to wet test again a different model.
All models would have to rotate as each shopper chooses to wet test a different model every day. ::)
Yet you all, shop without a committment to buy, because you have not wet tested all of the manufacturers, or the different models of those manufacturers that you THINK you may have an interest in. :-/
OH YES, we all want the cheapest or most competetive price with all the extras free and NOT included in the price, delivered with everything installed and of course with both excellent and superior service on demand,
And if not attended to as expected, you chastize the dealers operation with a posting of regret about how you are handled and or offended, and you send a memo off to the owner to achieve personal satisfaction and gratification. :-X
No wonder consumers don't like the profit mongering sellers who are sometimes referred to as something less than respectable human beings that can not be trusted and who are looking to profit excessively on a sale.
While the dealers are trying to appeal to the shopping consumers to represent quality goods, fair pricing, and superior and considerate customer service.
As I read these posts, I am perplexed to understand how any consumer could or would ever consider being a seller in this type of business. Much less for that matter, why any dealer wants to be in this business, oh my gosh I almost forgot, the excessive profits and the unending love of taking the indignant and abusive attitudes of self centered and untrusting individuals. WOW.
Dealers are vilified by shopping consumers here on this board and new shopping consumers are led to believe this is the natural way of doing business.
No wonder so many of the dealers come in and go out of business as they do while manufacturers threaten them with extinction and termination unless they get their marketshare. I guess that makes this a dog eat dog type of business that has little respect for each other.
I wish I could make it different, but how could that be done? ???
I don't understand the issue here J_McD. Are you frustrated because consumers want to test the product? I'm confused because the dealer mantra on these boards are "Wet test Wet test, Wet Test". ? Do you think otherwise?
Yes, consumers want to get the deal possible. They want to shop around and do price comparisions. Something that is more difficult to do in the Spa industry than in other markets. Do you not understand this desire? Do you think it's unjustified?
Chasitizing owners? Here's a comment that I belilve is directly poised at me. I don't belive I chastized a dealer. I did however post my frustration with the dealer, and I belive done so fairly. I did so as many dealers read these posts and wanted to know if they felt I was out of line.
As a dealer do you think my thread was out of line. If you were the dealer in question, what would you have done? What do you honestly think of that thread?
What do you think the purpose of this board is?
I find it to be open exchange of hot tub topics that includes both consumers, and dealers, owners and owners to be. Almost everything is fair game. This board is a gold mine for both consumers to educated themselves and learn about the product and compare prices and services offered. The dynamics of this board are process, not an answer. Some of the info is great, some of the issues are straight forward. But there is a lot of signal vs Noise here. But that's the nature of these boards.
As a dealer I think you would be drooling over the info and read between the lines here. You're getting honest straignt forward info from the comsumer. Some corporations pay analysist huge money to get info like this.
However, the trick is to figure out how you as a dealer can best meet the wants and desires of the marketplace.
Several times though out this board you've asked "What do you want?" I've answered that and many other posters have too. YOu come back and reply "Well I can't do all that." Ok. But you asked.
???
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drewstar, I agree with every word of your post. "Wet test" seems to be the working motto of this board so when someone complains about having to fill a tub........it sounds like somebody needs to spend some serious time IN the tub. If I went to a car dealership and the dealer told me to test drive a different car than the one I was looking at saying "Don't worry, it drives the same as the one you want", I would just walk away and purposely spread negative bad word of mouth. Sometimes making a living by way of customer service isn't easy.......but is it really that difficult to fill a tub with water???
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I can understand how it's not easy or cost effective to have every single tub available, but if i was a dealer, I'd work hard to keep the most popular tubs available pluys maybe a small rotation of lesser tubs. and work with a customer. IF the tub they wanted wasn't filled, I could direct them to another tub (salesman ship), or work with them to have them come back and have the tub ready.
I bet many customers don't come back to JMcD if the tub wasn't ready, because maybe they are picking up from you that you think it's a pain in the butt?
Hell, find a way to make em come back for the wet test and get them be excited by it. find a way to get the customer committed to you and your shop. I mean for crying out loud, isn't that the art of the deal? Finding out how to balance all that, delight the customer and make a profit is the goal.
I almost get from J_McD this kind of thing "You know the spa buisness would be ok if it wasn't for all theses damn customers"
In all honestly J_McD,. that's the impression I get from you and your post in the forum. I sincerly Don't mean to offend, but thats the truth. Take it for what its worth. just my opinon.
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Ok�back to the spa issue ;D
Again, thanks so much to everyone who helped with my confusion. I will still continue reading this forum but this time for other spa related info like water chemicals, water temps and of course where to find the rubber duckies. ;)
... my spa won't be delivered till July 14
Congratulations! I'm sure you will love your new tub, I know the waiting can be hard.
May you soak long and prosper!
;D
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I have to keep in mind that many dealers say 3% or less ever even ask to wet test.
I doubt that dealers have to deal with the "lookey-lous" that real Estate agents do on Open House Day.
I never wet tested, because I thought I'd been in several tubs and knew what I wanted. I ended up with a tub that is great for us, but when we go to replace it I will definitely wet test.
The one thing I don't like to hear that people have said dealers will say is, you can wet test this tub, its close enough. (WRONG!)
I've heard of "This is the same model with out the lounger"
Or This is the same model, but the 8' one instead of the 7' one.
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J MCD why the bad feelings toward customers who want to make a informed decision. I know the spa business is a tough business maybe it is time to change careers. You may find other careers have many different things you dislike also. Thats why it is called work!!
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J MCD why the bad feelings toward customers who want to make a informed decision.
I know I tend to post when having a bad day ;)
I know the next time I buy, and wet test, I'll take all points into consideration. If I buy (no intentions right now) my dealer will know I'm serious and will fill any tub I want. If I go to a different dealer, I'll work with them as I know as much as I love having a spa, I could go a week or more without one if needed. I'd be sure they knew I was a serious buyer. If they didn't have the model I wanted available, I'd say, call me when you do. This cost Masterspa a sale as they didn't ever call me back.
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So as to not be misunderstood, especially by new posters, as you become familiar with this board, you will find a wealth of knowledge freely given by all to be extremely useful to aid you in your shopping ventures. Some information and tips that are good, some very good, some not so good, some off the wall and some from far out in left field, even some that are bald face mis-leading.
The only thing at risk here is money and not your life, well maybe. The reason I say this is because, I am a touring motorcycle enthusiast and recently read an article detailing an accident report of someone where both riders were killed, a husband and wife whom we had met during our travels. The accident reports confirmed the specific cause of the accident specifically lead to “mis-matched” front and back tires, one radial bias and the other a glass bias tire of a different manufacturer that led to the instability of the cycle under certain road conditions which directly contrributed to the accident of the lone cycle. The tires were recently put on the cycle by a dealer. The article continued to explain, the tires were put on by the installer at the instance of the customer, who’s information was predicated upon research the cyclist had gleaned from the internet. The dealer actually tried to dissuade him, but his warning was not heeded. The cyclist was firmly convinced by his research and the dealer was being sued. The article just makes you think.
We can all be smart and shrewd, but the information that we collect and rely on can be misleading and screw up our decision making prowess. Buying a spa IS a serious venture as it includes SERIOUS AMOUNTS OF MONEY representing a one time expenditure that is going to last 15 to 20 years. It amazes me some people buy 240 volt spas that are NOT even certified to be electrically safe or that have burned the back of the house down. I will leave that for another thread.
I am not opposed to wet testing in any remote way. We encourage it. And, I have kissed enough customers where the sun does not shine over my 22 years in this business. We didn’t have the internet back then, but today, it is the information hi-way.
IMOHO, the single most important resource of information that you can glean information from is the dealer, and in the end, he is the most important thing you pay for. I see the dealer to be one of the most important measurement of analysis. However, all of the focus and all of the analysis during the shopping process seems to relate to product, price and the fear of making the wrong decision.
The best advice given here on this board is to WET TEST and dealers are not trusted. While it is very important how it fits, whether you float, and obtaining the desired results, which can be best evaluated during a water test. The wet test is important, but, is it 10% or 20% of the decision making process, or is it 80% of the decision making process or, is it manufacturer, or price point?
In a best case scenario, dealers should have all of their models represented, one dry to sit in and there should be 16 private environments to wet test. We have long desired to do that for the benefit of the shopper. We would have to double the size of the store, increase our electric consumption by $20 to $30 a month by 14 more spas and have a parade of bodies passing through some of which would actually increase sales. But, what comes first, the chicken or the egg? Or in this case, the money to afford expansion or relocation and the increased cost of business and yet, still maintain quality products, superior and excellent service and low prices that are never low enough for the consumer who is compelled to walk out the door to shop and wet test others until they have been beaten into submission. How many will you wet test?
As you can imagine, trying to please ALL of the people, ALL OF THE TIME is virtually impossible. it is important to have a comprehensive understanding of ALL of the factors related to the decision and their respective level or degree of importance. Would anyone care to prepare a list of priorities from MOST important to least important but still very important.
Now, if you will excuse me, I need to call JA for a good Dr. and get some new meds. ;D ;D ;D
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This may sound completey stupid, but In the spirit of brain storming, and not being afraid to be called an idoit....
Wet testing tubs....what's the big deal about this? Is it the trouble to set the tub up, the cost of the water? Heating it?
IF that's the case, I could image a hot tub dealer having oh a 500 gallon tank of balanced, heated water available with a high speed pump always ready.
YOu want to wet test that one? Ok, give me 10 minutes. "hey jimbo, fill tub #5. Any tub at any time could be ready to go in minutes.
After the test, end of the day. pump back to the holding tank.
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I think that is a great idea and one that has been considered.
However, I too am controlled by my better half, or should I say my good conscience control. In Her Opinion, people would consider them "used spas" and want them to be discounted, and she raises the issues of liability of which I can not explain away to her satisfaction.
Well, yes, of course we are insured, and we are competent in what we do as well, but there have been some very serious health issues not to mention the health department and dealing with the "public consumer" in a retail setting and not a public bathing business.
Drew, how would you like me to dump the community 500 gallon water tank into the spa for you and your wife to wet test? :-/
This is not really a simple issue as shoppers may perceive it to be. There were several deaths attributed to legionnaires disease at a tent sale in the Carolina's and another unfortunate experience in the Netherlands attributed to improper sanitation in Hot Tubs. I would feel compelled to be there all hours to cover my backside to be sure stringent guidlines were adhered to.
Remember, we are dealing with sanitary conditions in a selling environment. Will all sellers pay stringent attention to the water or the sales. Somebody better be paying attention to proper water chemistry and proper sanitation as required by the health department.
I think the 3% of water testers mentioned is manageable, even if it was 10 to 15% but, to what limit should we really encourage the expansion to what point before we start reading the headlines again. :-/
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i wont quote the whole post from j._mcd -to much space...
in a nut shell heres my view....
i think the wet test is 50-70% of the decision. the tub will be the tub you have for the next 10-15 years. dealers may come and go, hell, the manufacturer could go out of business, but you still have the tub. does it fit me and my needs? thats the most important decision. i think thats why there are so many boards like this.
price and dealer IMHO roughly tie. the dealer is very important, and can be a wealth of info both at the point of sale and during ownership, BUT if i cant afford the $9k tub, then its all a mute point. i personally bought from a dealer that has carried watkins products for 19 years, been in biz for over 26 yrs themselves, and they have 4 stores with in 100 miles (2 local).
what dd/do i want to see in a dealer? i was in several good ones. the going theme seemed to be anywhere from 10-25 tubs on display, with a few of the most popular filled. jaccuzzi, caqldera, HS, marquis, and sundance all offered to fill any spa they had with in a day or two and set up appts with the wife and i to come back and test the tub in question. even outside normal hrs. i would never expect any dealer to keep ALL tubs filled, thats a waste of time and chems.
i dont expect any one to kiss my #$#% either. give me info that will help me make a decision, and answer my questions.
i dont agree than the general theme of this board is that dealers are not to be trusted. most info says wet test and find a dealer you feel good about,i.e. polite, knowledgable, helpful, etc most of the posts from new shoppers say something like i was quoted $"x" for "x" spa. is this a good price, good tub, etc?.
if i went shopping for a fur coat today, i dont know squat about fur coat prices. is $10k the going rate? $50k? i would ask the same type of questions on a whats-the-best-fur-coat site(is there such a site?? ;D ;D)
you seem to be a little high stressed and very defensive about your profession. do you get a lot of customers that feel they are paying to much?? am i out of the norm? how do the #;s break down, roughly. are most peolpe coming in the door wasting time, or serious shoppers?80% / 20%..... 60% / 40%?
there are some real "winners" in the sales profession in most industries. most of the one i met in the spa biz were very nice and helpful. only had a couple bad times, and 1 of those was even funny.
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TO answer the specific question of what was important to me/priority
1) Price. I had a certain budget set and would not exceed that. No deal if I went over my budget. The tub salesman could be Jesus H. Christ and have features that rivaled several adult movies I've seen, but if it was over my budget I wasn't going to buy.
2) of equal importance was quality. If I couldn't get a quality product that also offered superor electrical and heating costs I wasn't going to buy.
3) Dealer. Meeting the above criteria we visited dealers who had tubs that met our needs. Dealer integrity, and service was measured. this brought us to 2 dealers, each with a few tubs that met our needs.
4) Given we could meet the above criteria, the next was most tub for the money. I had no size or space restrictions and wanted to have the best entertaining tub I could get for the dollar. It's here that we do trade offs of # of jets, water falls, seating size, bells & whistles and investigated the indvidual dealers reputations, product ratings and wieghed servive and conveince between the tubs that made it to this stage.
5) This brought us to 2 or 3 tubs. Wet tested for comfort .
So yea, J-McD is right (assuming a dedicated buyer, not a lookie-loo) the wet test was at the end of our process. After all I wasn't going to wet test a tub I couldn't afford, or didn't think was a quality product.
Price
Quality
Dealer
Features
Wet Test.
However, this doesn't cover final negotiations on price and signing the deal. that's a diiferent topic. The above is only what brought me to the tub i chose.
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Good day to everyone.
Reading the posts within this thread is bringing back memories of a recent auto purchase. I was in the market for an exotic car. Since the car is very high $$$ the dealer nearest my house would not let me test-drive the actual model I wanted. He had the non-turbo model for test drive but not the actual car. Of course I drove the extra 50 miles to another dealer who would allow me to test-drive the model I wanted. After driving the car a few miles I knew it was the model I would purchase. The essence of this little story is that part of running a successful business is not only to know what the consumer wants but also a little common sense. Perhaps a spa is not the same $$$ as a vehicle but it is in essence a possession for therapeutic reasoning or merely another toy. Whatever the case may be the consumer has full right not only to be selective but also to purchase at a fair market value. For this reasoning we have free enterprise in the U.S.
My burning question for the day is why would a consumer be a “spa lookey-lous”. Does a spa dealer or sales staff really think a consumer does the ‘spa dealership tour’ just to have a free soak in a spa? I would hope to think 99.9% of wet-test consumers are in the market to purchase and NOT because they are bored with nothing else better to do.
It is written by a user in this thread, “the dealer, and in the end, he is the most important thing you pay for. I see the dealer to be one of the most important measurement of analysis”. Unfortunately, I strongly disagree with this thought simply because a specific spa manufacture and its sales staff are representing their line of product to sell. Why would a SunDance salesperson give me positive information on HotSprings or vise versa? Unfortunately, it is the consumer’s responsibility to do their homework then attempt the quest for their given selection(s).
Wet-testing is a definite “MUST”. Although some sales staff will believe sitting in a dry spa will give you the feel for the design and function it is not the entire feel for the model. My sales rep told me the 385 might be a little to long for me but was not upset when I requested the wet-test. After prepping the unit she told me how to benefit from the jets and their proximately. In essence she allowed the quality of the spa to sell itself. Excellent sells strategy!
Nevertheless, in order of significance the most important factors in my spa search were:
1. Performance
2. Quality
3. Wet-Test
4. Price
5. How many rubber-duckies were included in the package! ;D :D ;D
Until later
p.s…..13 days till delivery and counting the hours ! 8)
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i wont quote the whole post from j._mcd -to much space...
in a nut shell heres my view....
you seem to be a little high stressed and very defensive about your profession. do you get a lot of customers that feel they are paying to much?? am i out of the norm? how do the #;s break down, roughly. are most peolpe coming in the door wasting time, or serious shoppers?80% / 20%..... 60% / 40%?
there are some real "winners" in the sales profession in most industries. most of the one i met in the spa biz were very nice and helpful. only had a couple bad times, and 1 of those was even funny.
I am a little more stressed about mis-leading or mis-information that people rely on from the internet.
I sell in the upper price range of quality represented in the industry and we deal with a lot of people who get sticker shock :o when they realize spa cost more than 3 to 4 thousand dollars that they saw at Sam's or other big box stores. Then there is also the warehouse or want ad seller selling $9,000 spas for $4,795 that they bought for $2,000.
People just don't know what to expect or who to trust. We deal with it every day. From a dealers perspective, the internet and big boxes set the expectation of the shopping consumer who want to "negotiate" what he thinks he should pay and the sellers deal with their dissappointment when they come in and judge us as "overpriced".
You get what you pay for, and everybody still tries to get it cheaper, it's human nature.
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"You get what you pay for, and everybody still tries to get it cheaper, it's human nature."
i couldn't agree more. that was the whole point of my TV comparison. $250-600 is a large spread. for more $ you get more features, better picture quality, etc....
just like a spa.....
they run from $4k up to $12k (even a little more) and the differences are the same..more features, better quality, etc
i stated my search for a replacement tub with a common thought.... saw them at sams for $3-5k. took me about a month to go to 5-7k range, and wound up spending 8k.
i wanted high quality and dealer support. after looking at several dealers, i realized that to get what i wanted was going to be more than $3500.
you cant buy a new bmw for 14k either, but you can get a cavalier, or a hundai, etc, for that price. you do get what you pay for....
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If a consumer wants to compare or wants to believe a Costco, Sam's or Home Depot spa are equal to SunDance, Jacuzzi or ? then.... :-[ wow. Someone needs higher education! Not only is there a huge lack of quality and huge difference in price but try calling their 800 number when in time of service needs.
And, for those consumers that respond to the newspaper ad for a $10,549 spa marked down to 2899.00 ? Sometime I really wonder :o
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Well, I, at least, *know* I'm going to spend in the neighborhood of $10,000 for a SD Max with the options I want, and I know what to look for to verify that the construction is as I expect it to be as I've heard here, and I know what to ask about about the options and installation and what's included, etc. Such are the benefits of these boards!
And I know the dealer I hope to be handling my area soon has the Max ready for wet testing; but I can see in some areas some dealers would get a lot of lookie-loos... I dunno about if that's true in the Metro Washington area or not.
But, the more data you have is good to show the dealer that you *are* serious and just didn't see the sign on the way by and stop in for a hot soak! :)
I can also see how it would be a crap shoot sometimes to have the right spas ready to go for wet test from the dealer's point of view, and perhaps you would need an advance appt to get 'that one' filled for you. I also would expect *any* floor model, wet tested or not, to be sold as a floor model, since you've had all sorts of people clomping around in it. (Heck, I'd rather have one that's been full of water, than one that's been constantly walked around in with you hope only socks/bare feet on! :) )
As in all things, retail sales is a, um, hard thing.
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to read what J.McD has posted I can some what relate I am Self employed as an mortgage broker. To say to a coustomer oh a 3/1 adjustable is the same as a 15 year year fixed is 1 lazy 2. dis honest and showes poor coustomer care. I have some times worked days weeks and months to make coustomers happy. why Because they are making the biggest investment of a life time. To fill a spa with water and balance it with chems. to get a maybe purchace is a small investment. the dealer I bought my spa from told me sorry I don't have that modle in to wet test it. "But I made a call to another dealer if you want to wet test it. If you end up buying from him I understand" My family drove a hour one way to wet test and you know what I bought that model from the dealer that sent us there not the one who let us wet test. it boils down to coustomer satifaction period. Also IMOHO i will test drive cars to make sure its right for me and I will wet test spas to make sure its right for me. any one who will not let me see ya.