Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Drewski on May 24, 2005, 11:22:19 am

Title: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: Drewski on May 24, 2005, 11:22:19 am
Hi All:

I've been reading lately about how to increase the maximum temperature for tubs (beyond 104) in numerous posts on this forum. Hot Springs obviously has a solution, I know that Jacuzzi tubs allow for "jumper" position changes that can be used to by-pass the limits and, as in my case, you can always pull back the on the temperature probe to “fool” the spa controller.

On spas such as mine, with Gecko control packs, there's no real way to by-pass the 104 limit (even Bubba Stu couldn't figure out how, and THAT'S saying something...) other than backing out the probe. Doing this will get you up to 110 as long as just the circ pump and heater is on, BUT, when the pumps come on, the "real" temp gets read by the probe and the heater kicks off. As a result, the higher temperature can’t be maintained (especially in the winter) and drops to the cooler range.

So, I was sitting in my tub last night contemplating this problem and I came up with an idea (I knew I smelled something burning). Hot tub temps are measured using solid metal probes mounted in the shell and outside the heater. The spa controller monitors each temperature and adjusts the heater, along with shutting down the system if things get too hot (High Limit) or if the temperature readings don't match closely enough (Temp Probe error).

Now, I'm thinking that to measure the temperature with these probes, a weak electrical current is passed through them with the increase in resistance caused by heating of the metal probe used to calculate temperature (someone please correct me if this assumption is WRONG). The return current is weaker, so the spa controller can calculate the temperature using changes in the resistance values.

OK, so let's try this. Build a board with a digital readout and 4 pairs of connectors. The "top" connectors are the wires from the probes, the "bottom" connectors go the spa pack. The board input is from the probes. It senses the "real" resistance values and knows what the "real" temperature is. This value is displayed on the readout. The board also allows the user to "choose" a temperature setting (say up to 110 F), also displayed on the readout. The board output is to the spa pack, using the original probe leads. The board is wired between the probes and the spa pack.

Now, here's the trick. When the “real” temperature is less than the board setting, the board "returns" a resistance value of 80 F to the spa controller using the output connectors. The spa controller then turns the heater on because it reads a "low" temperature. Once the chosen board temperature is reached, the board "returns" a resistance value of 105 F, causing the spa controller to shut the heater off. In essence, the board "bypasses" the temperature sensing capability of the spa controller and allows the user to exceed maximum temperature limits.

I'm thinking such a device could be fairly small, powered by batteries? I know that in my tub, it would be very easy to run the probe wires to this "box" anywhere near the spa control pack.

AND, I know, I know, "it would create all kinds of liability if you made it or sold it." Hmmmm, let's see now, how may "hot rod shops" are held liable for all those aftermarket car parts that create engines with 400 HP in Honda Civics and probably result in hundreds of accidents per year?

OK you guys that are EE's or Biomedical Engineers (VINNY!), any ideas?

Thanks...

Drewski

;D  
Title: Re: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: windsurfdog on May 24, 2005, 02:32:49 pm
Duuude,

Back off the 110 degree stuff, man....you don' wan' no stinkin' heart attack.... ;)

BTW--just "summerized" my tub by backing it down to 97.... 8)
Title: Re: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: txwillie on May 24, 2005, 03:04:58 pm
Guess being from Texas, I just don't get it. When I first got my tub I set it to 102. Plenty hot. Ran it up to the max of 104, just to see. Too hot. In our mild winters, 101-102 is about right for me.

I've set mine back to 95F, but we've had a little heat wave, air temps over 100F and the spa temp has yet to fall below 98F. Plan to change the water this weekend because it is time, but also to get the temp down.

txwillie
Title: Re: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: JcDenton on May 24, 2005, 03:48:47 pm
Quote
I've set mine back to 95F, but we've had a little heat wave, air temps over 100F and the spa temp has yet to fall below 98F. Plan to change the water this weekend because it is time, but also to get the temp down.


Maybe you should move to where the temperature inside the tub is warmer than the air outside of it. ;D

(http://img258.echo.cx/img258/1003/1212142compressed3ez.jpg) (http://www.imageshack.us)


This is how we do it in the Great White North. ;D

Jc
Title: Re: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: jcmsrv on May 24, 2005, 03:49:46 pm
Hi Drewski
I also have piper glen, (new this may first). I found out that if I run 3 to 4 pumps two to three cycles the water will over-heat to 106 or 107. I know my controls work fine because each morning when I check the water it's right on 104. we found 107 too hot, but 105/106 on cool night ok. Have you tried this???
john
Title: Re: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: txwillie on May 24, 2005, 03:55:46 pm
Guess it's what you are acclimated to. I'll take 100 over below freezing any day.

BTW, doesn't your backside freeze to the edge of the spa on the way in/out?

txwillie
Title: Re: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: JcDenton on May 24, 2005, 04:21:19 pm
Actually no - we have big fuzzy robes that keep us warm!

This is what a hottub is meant for. It is unbelievable. We love it.



Jc
Title: Re: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: Steve on May 24, 2005, 04:25:20 pm
There's certainly an art to entry and exit at minus 20 or 30! ;)

Here in central Alberta, 104 is plenty hot enough during the winter months for me. I guess if you're only in the tub for 5 or 6 minutes, 107+ is fine... ;D

If you're in any longer, I highly doubt that any spa could maintain 107 degrees or more at -30 with the cover off for 30 minutes. :-/

Steve
Title: Re: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: Drewski on May 25, 2005, 10:37:34 am
Quote
Duuude,

Back off the 110 degree stuff, man....you don' wan' no stinkin' heart attack.... ;)

BTW--just "summerized" my tub by backing it down to 97.... 8)


WSD! 97! Geez, I'd be COLD! That's a swimming pool! Never less than 102 even on 90F days and 85% Virginia humidity. The secret is COLD Corona...

Really bud, you need to TRY and acclimate to higher temperature water. It's called a HOT tub, ya know...

;)

Drewski
Title: Re: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: windsurfdog on May 26, 2005, 09:10:07 am
Quote

WSD! 97! Geez, I'd be COLD! That's a swimming pool! Never less than 102 even on 90F days and 85% Virginia humidity. The secret is COLD Corona...
 
Really bud, you need to TRY and acclimate to higher temperature water. It's called a HOT tub, ya know...

 ;)

Drewski

It's only because I'm so hot....... ;D
Title: Re: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: Drewski on May 26, 2005, 09:12:42 am
P, bro, you're KILLING me here...

A
Title: Re: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: Lori on May 26, 2005, 02:06:58 pm
Quote
It's only because I'm so hot....... ;D


You got that right!!!   ;) :-*
Title: Re: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: windsurfdog on May 27, 2005, 07:30:09 am
oooOOOOooo, Lori......

(in his best "Gone With the Wind" voice)

Ah think Ah have the vapuhs.......

(fanning face profusely)

;)
Title: Re: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: Chas on May 27, 2005, 09:16:40 am
Quote
This is what a hottub is meant for. It is unbelievable. We love it.  Jc
Brrr! Look, I'm tryin' to drink a cup of coffee and get my day goin' here and you have to go and put up a picture of snow and ice, and then make a crazy statement like that?? YUK!! What is wrong with you people?

Hot Tubs were clearly meant for looking at things like this:
(http://www.ci.ventura.ca.us/images/photo_162/162_Pier_Sunset2.jpg)
;)
;D
Title: Re: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: JcDenton on May 27, 2005, 09:24:03 am
You just may be right.





Jc
Title: Re: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: Lori on May 27, 2005, 12:56:13 pm
Jc and Chas,

I think you are both right!!!
Title: Re: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: stuart on May 27, 2005, 03:23:18 pm
Here's an idea for you, make a Bloody Mary with this stuff and you will enjoy your tub at 97 degrees. In fact you will insist on it!

(http://store1.yimg.com/I/hotsauceworld_1847_21256881)
Title: Re: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: JcDenton on May 27, 2005, 05:24:19 pm
I think if I were to use that stuff I'd be needin' to sit on a different kind of tub. :)
Title: Re: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: windsurfdog on May 28, 2005, 08:57:15 am
Quote
I think if I were to use that stuff I'd be needin' to sit on a different kind of tub. :)

whooOOOaaa......FIRE IN DA HOLE[/red]......
Title: Re: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: Chas on May 28, 2005, 09:25:30 am
I use that stuff for toothpaste. Bring it on.

















Kidding...  :o :o :o :o :o ::)
Title: Re: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: windsurfdog on May 29, 2005, 08:13:34 am
Quote
I use that stuff for toothpaste. Bring it on.:)

Just don't mistake it for your Preparation H........ ;D
Title: Re: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: Chas on May 29, 2005, 09:32:03 am
(http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/a/j/ajs402/stuff/graphics/GerberPicanteSauce.jpg)
Title: Re: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: Ruby on May 30, 2005, 12:10:43 am
LOL!  That's Funny!!! ;D
Title: Re: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: hot toddy on November 21, 2014, 08:40:53 pm
Hi All:

I've been reading lately about how to increase the maximum temperature for tubs (beyond 104) in numerous posts on this forum. Hot Springs obviously has a solution, I know that Jacuzzi tubs allow for "jumper" position changes that can be used to by-pass the limits and, as in my case, you can always pull back the on the temperature probe to “fool” the spa controller.

On spas such as mine, with Gecko control packs, there's no real way to by-pass the 104 limit (even Bubba Stu couldn't figure out how, and THAT'S saying something...) other than backing out the probe. Doing this will get you up to 110 as long as just the circ pump and heater is on, BUT, when the pumps come on, the "real" temp gets read by the probe and the heater kicks off. As a result, the higher temperature can’t be maintained (especially in the winter) and drops to the cooler range.

So, I was sitting in my tub last night contemplating this problem and I came up with an idea (I knew I smelled something burning). Hot tub temps are measured using solid metal probes mounted in the shell and outside the heater. The spa controller monitors each temperature and adjusts the heater, along with shutting down the system if things get too hot (High Limit) or if the temperature readings don't match closely enough (Temp Probe error).

Now, I'm thinking that to measure the temperature with these probes, a weak electrical current is passed through them with the increase in resistance caused by heating of the metal probe used to calculate temperature (someone please correct me if this assumption is WRONG). The return current is weaker, so the spa controller can calculate the temperature using changes in the resistance values.

OK, so let's try this. Build a board with a digital readout and 4 pairs of connectors. The "top" connectors are the wires from the probes, the "bottom" connectors go the spa pack. The board input is from the probes. It senses the "real" resistance values and knows what the "real" temperature is. This value is displayed on the readout. The board also allows the user to "choose" a temperature setting (say up to 110 F), also displayed on the readout. The board output is to the spa pack, using the original probe leads. The board is wired between the probes and the spa pack.

Now, here's the trick. When the “real” temperature is less than the board setting, the board "returns" a resistance value of 80 F to the spa controller using the output connectors. The spa controller then turns the heater on because it reads a "low" temperature. Once the chosen board temperature is reached, the board "returns" a resistance value of 105 F, causing the spa controller to shut the heater off. In essence, the board "bypasses" the temperature sensing capability of the spa controller and allows the user to exceed maximum temperature limits.

I'm thinking such a device could be fairly small, powered by batteries? I know that in my tub, it would be very easy to run the probe wires to this "box" anywhere near the spa control pack.

AND, I know, I know, "it would create all kinds of liability if you made it or sold it." Hmmmm, let's see now, how may "hot rod shops" are held liable for all those aftermarket car parts that create engines with 400 HP in Honda Civics and probably result in hundreds of accidents per year?

OK you guys that are EE's or Biomedical Engineers (VINNY!), any ideas?

Thanks...

Drewski

 ;D  


Drew-

great thinking....i own a Coast Spas TV-80 model...super nice tub, with a Gecko TSPA-1 Spa Pack....would love to be able to increase the temperature to 108-112 or so.

can you email me an update on what you wound up doing and what additional thoughts you might have now?

thanks much

Todd
Title: Re: Idea for MORE than 104 F Degrees
Post by: Chashoagie on September 07, 2021, 09:51:47 am
What about adding a 1 k resistor in series with the sensing thermistor?  Thermistors decrease resistance with increasing temperature so this will makethe system think it is cooler so you can bypass the 104 limit.thinking