Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Campsalot on April 09, 2005, 10:32:59 am
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I am about to jump in and make a purchase of a new Hot Tub. I'm deciding between the Sundance Maxxus or the Hot Springs Grandee. I am leaning towards the Sundance because it just seems built better. The model I want includes a stereo with the pop-up spakers. The Hot Springs dealer said I have chosen the top two tubs and both are very good however, the Sundance will grow black mold in the pop-up speakers. The mold will then transfer to the water and then then to the users. He said this is a known issue and is why Hot Springs no longer does pop-up speakers. I have seached the net and can find nothing about this. Can anyone comment on this and let me know if this fact or fiction. Personally, I'll just forgo the dang stereo (expensive option) and get a boom box. Please comment :-/
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I have never heard of a mold problem with Sundance's speakers. I think your Hotspring dealer is an idiot for saying that.
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The dealer may not be lying: I mean let's face it, it is entirely possible that a customer or two in your area may have had some sort of problem with mold (or black algae) on the speakers. They may have gone to the HotSpring dealer for help simply because they were closer, or open on Sunday or whatever. Yes, I can see how it might be possible, but I certainly don't know of it being a 'problem' in the sense of a larger issue.
Caldera spas have pop-up speakers...
You are looking at two very good spas, and yes, the stereo options on both are pricey. I am working with Bose speakers from the nearby 'factory outlet' setting up some very nice outdoor systems for much less money. Come to think of it, I suppose even those speakers could get some mold on them if you live in a real damp area....
;)
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I agree with Chris. This HS dealer is desperately trying to make the sale and desperation sometimes is ugly to watch as the BS usually follows.
Who did you really think Chas was going to side with? ::)
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That mold will creep into the baby's crib, and then into the air duct system, and everone will be breathing fermented speaker juice. What to do, what to do? ??? ;D
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I have the Optima with the pop up's and in two years so far no mold.
Brewman
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I think it is a stretch but in some rare set of circumstances maybe could it happen but for the dealer to use that as sales advantage, is someone who is really reaching....
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Create fear in the mind of the buyer to eliminate the competition. Pshycological warefare. Not only Fiction but unethical and lacks integrity.
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save the money and go with a boom box!!
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I agree with Chris. This HS dealer is desperately trying to make the sale and desperation sometimes is ugly to watch as the BS usually follows.
Who did you really think Chas was going to side with? ::)
Actually I thought he was very diplomatic and impartial about it. I would think the issue here would be user maintainence. I would think anything that exist under the tubs cover might have this possability if you don't keep your spa/water properly clean.
Don't base your decision, or opinion of either spa based on this one thing that guy said. My father once owned a Ford sedan. It blew three radiator hoses in 3 weeks. The local dealer replaced the hose again and suggested my Dad keep a spare hose and fluid in the trunik Despite this all Fords are not junk.
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Campsalot,
I own a HS grandee and it is a nice tub. When I was looking, I also saw a maxxus (dry) at the sundance dealer.
I doubt the maxxus is "better built", but if it gave you more confidence in the "kick the tires" department then it is a good tub to have. Both tubs are laid out so differently that I would image aesthetics and usage would be as much of a factor as anything else. I believe, with the maxxus, you can add hooks for water exercise. When I was looking I also believe themaxxus came in only real wood siding???
Do some searching on here for speakers. They are nice, but pricey and maybe not anywhere near as much bang for your buck as a good set of marine speakers. IMO it just isn't worth it, we get tons of enjoyment out of marine speakers and you can get some nice deck-wide surround sound for that $$.
-Ed
ps.This is a good forum! If you can wade through some of the obligatory personal vitriole there is much information afoot. ;D
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Campsalot,
I own a HS grandee and it is a nice tub. When I was looking, I also saw a maxxus (dry) at the sundance dealer.
I doubt the maxxus is "better built", but if it gave you more confidence in the "kick the tires" department then it is a good tub to have. Both tubs are laid out so differently that I would image aesthetics and usage would be as much of a factor as anything else. I believe, with the maxxus, you can add hooks for water exercise. When I was looking I also believe themaxxus came in only real wood siding???
Do some searching on here for speakers. They are nice, but pricey and maybe not anywhere near as much bang for your buck as a good set of marine speakers. IMO it just isn't worth it, we get tons of enjoyment out of marine speakers and you can get some nice deck-wide surround sound for that $$.
-Ed
ps.This is a good forum! If you can wade through some of the obligatory personal vitriole there is much information afoot. ;D
The exercise option is no longer available on the 2005 Maxxus. Three shell colors and three cabinet colors are offered. The new birchwood cabinet color is very sharp. These three cabinet colors all come in synthetic wood.
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Chas,
I knew you were kidding. Great minds think alike.
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My wife and I went to the Sundance dealer yesterday and looked the Maxxus over real closely. I really like this tub! I am pretty much past the mold issue now as I tend to agree with the person who stated in the forum earlier that this was BS dealer mind game anyway. I have had an above ground pool for years that finally just biffed it. Rather than getting another pool my wife suggested a spa because of our short pool season. (3 maybe 4 months) I plan on setting the tub on a 16" octagon concrete pad I poured for the pool. I am going to pass on the Hot Springs tub because of the dealer mentioning the BS speaker mold issue. Also, the Sundance dealer was open to my deal proposal where the other dealer was not. I proposed that we would order a new Maxxus as long as we received a very aggressive price. These things seem so over priced and everything I have read leads me to believe that they have a HUGE amount of mark up! Now nothing is wrong with making a profit but usually this kind of mark up spells depreciation. I also understand that these things will depreciate although I would not want to lose 4g's the first year alone. Therefore I asked him for an aggressive price that includes steps, cover and lift, chemical, and a 30 day wet test deal. The 30 day wet test deal I offered is I get 30 days to test the tub, if I don’t like it he'll come pick it up, and give me all my money back less $250.00 for hard costs! If he meets these criteria, I’m ordering. I'll keep everyone posted here as to how this proceeds and I thank you all for your input. This is great! :)
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Campsalot,
Why are you so concerned about depreciation? Are you planning on trading it in for a new one in a few years? The Maxxus is a great choice. Good Luck!
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If you are worried about depreciation, don't get a spa, period.
Brewman
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You misunderstood what I meant about depreciation. Depreciation is a fact of life! However, like buying a car I want the dealer to know that I know that the large markup leads to more depreciation because of the fluff. I use it as a negotiation point. I am not buying a tub as an investment. What really is driving this is my wife really wants one and the more I look at them I believe I would like it also. Although, I cannot really picture sitting outside in hot water when it is twenty below I guess it is quite the experience.
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You seem to be hung up on the dealer making some $$$ for the privlege of taking care of your needs for the coming years. Your concept of profit margin is off base. Yes he makes money, but don't you? Why don't you offer to pick it up and save the delivery expenses?
You seem to want it all, low price, the ability to change your mind and cancel after 30 days and you probably expect free service in the future years.
If you are concerned about depreciation, it doesn't appear you intend to own this for 15 years or more. If you do, then that makes your concern a non-issue. Get the stereo if you can afford it. The enjoyment you will receive from the ownership of such a product will reward you for the next 15 years or more. What is that worth to you and those you love?
Pay the dealers price and he will be pleased to bend over backwards and make your dreams a reality and enjoy your decision for you and your family for a very long time. :)
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You misunderstood what I meant about depreciation. Depreciation is a fact of life! However, like buying a car I want the dealer to know that I know that the large markup leads to more depreciation because of the fluff. I use it as a negotiation point. I am not buying a tub as an investment. What really is driving this is my wife really wants one and the more I look at them I believe I would like it also. Although, I cannot really picture sitting outside in hot water when it is twenty below I guess it is quite the experience.
I don't think I mis understood your tack on depreciation.
You seem to be like a few others that have come thru this board in the past- consumed by the idea that YOU think you know what something should cost better than the person selling it, and that their prices are excessive. If that was really true, they be out of business by lack of sales. Too excessive for you, maybe, but if the are in business, they must be doing something right.
Go to the Sundance dealer, make your best deal, and get to soaking.
Brewman
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There is nothing wrong with making a profit! In fact if your customer service is outstanding and I mean “OUTSTANDING” then the higher price is justified. I do not think I am being unreasonable here at all with what I have asked the dealer to provide. I think any dealer should offer a “buy and try” deal. How do I know the costs? I have been reviewing this forum and have seen this model tub mentioned at prices as high as 12 and as low as 9g. That is a lot of difference so faced with that knowledge how am I supposed to not negotiate. Also, this dealer is new (3 years old) and he has not been around long enough to establish a track record. I will be asking for references though because I do value customer service.
Yes, I do want to get to soaking! I just dont want to get soaked! ;D
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Campsalot,
Don't take this the wrong way, and I agree attempting to get the best price possible with the range you have seen but you can almost go to far. Even though it is great to make a sale and introduce a new customer to the family, there are many who i wish i never did business with. Some who pry and pry and want the world, are tipically the most difficult to deal with after the sale. Make friends with the dealer and they will bend over backwards for you. 3-5 hunded dollars when talking 9-11 thousand (whats the beef?) if you have that to spend on a luxury item, then who cares. If you don't have it, then don't buy it. It's like someone buying a mercedes SL 500 and complaining to the dealer about a couple grand. The dealer is not the enemy, and it is definitly not a used car lot, although the industry has been treated as such as of late. Just trust them. Dealers want happy customers, and boning someone for 2 thosand dollars is unethical, and if dealers commonly practiced this (word of mouth travels fast), the would not be practicing that for very long. Good luck, and after owning the spa for a week, all other worries will be out the window. ;)
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Camps, with all due respect $250.00 for a 30 day trial is not reasonable. If your dealer agrees, more power to you. If we ever took a spa back after delivery, it would be at a minimum 15% restocking fee. Delivery guys don't work for free. Test soak before you buy.
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Relax, soon you will be in hot water and your going to love it, that spa absolutely rocks. You have the same fear that every shopper has "paying too much".
How can yo evaluate "superior service" until you experience it. Maybe you will be the one that demands it. I make everbody happy some of the time because they buy, I make some of the people happy all of the time because most people are reasonable and understanding, but it is my job to to take care of them and make them happy. BUT, I can not make all of the people happy all of the time. Some people are bi-polar.
You would scare the beejeebies out of me with your "deal" and I would be dissappointed, but I would let you walk. And even then, you would probably think I lost a good customer. It could be a cheap way to rent a spa with liability exposure.
Believe me, there are those kind of people out there and you have no idea what you are asking the dealer to do for you particularly and I am confident that you think your a reasonable guy but how does he know that.
If it is good for you, he should do it for everybody, but not for $250. Borrow a snowmobile trailer and offer to pick it up, I am sure he will knock something off.
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OK folks.........I surrender! I want to clear one thing up! The deal I offered was not to the owner, whom was out of town during my visit, but rather to his service & part time sales guy. Keep in mind that was the deal I offered, not what I required! Should the actual dealer respond with a counter offer then I will be glad to look at it! No, I do not want to pick this thing up because I want the 30 day buy and try deal I spoke of earlier. If $250.00 is too low then $500.00 is what I'll do. I'm not unfair, simply cautious. The real reason I want this is because I'm 6'4" and my wife is 5'3". She thinks she'll drown in the Maxxus. Should this be the case I'd switch to the Optima. I just don't want the restocking fee's issue or run a chance of losing the whole price. If I did deliver it myself, not knowing how to handle something this large I could damage it. Whoever delivers it has to negotiate a 4' X 9'5" gate to the back yard and then roll over a 3' area of crushed rock to the concrete pad. Not something I want. But, like I said! I'll surrender and offer the guy 500 to 750 for the "buy and try option. Thanks everyone for your comments. Let’s keep it going. I'll post again today after I hear from the dealer/owner!
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Campsalot,
I went back and read your posts, and it seems that you have not wet tested either spa yet. (Maxxus - Optima) I'm sure the dealer would be glad to fill both so you and your wife can determine the best fit for both. With that done, no need for 30 day wet test. Just a thought! :)
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I have seen mold (black algae) in pop up speakers, bu these folks had other water quality issues to. Once it happens it is difficult to get clean.
Gary
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The prices that most dealer offered me when I went thru this included delivery. You might want to let the dealer do the delivery and install vs doing it yourself for the very reasons you state in your post.
If you damage the spa yourself, any small savings realized by doing your own delivery will be quickly wiped out.
The Optima weighs close to 900 pounds dry, and the Maxus even more. The delivery crew should have the correct dollies and crew to safely transport your spa and set it in place. If they damage it, they fix it on their own dime.
Cheap insurance if you ask me.
Brewman
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OK folks.........I surrender! I want to clear one thing up! The deal I offered was not to the owner, whom was out of town during my visit, but rather to his service & part time sales guy. Keep in mind that was the deal I offered, not what I required! Should the actual dealer respond with a counter offer then I will be glad to look at it! No, I do not want to pick this thing up because I want the 30 day buy and try deal I spoke of earlier. If $250.00 is too low then $500.00 is what I'll do. I'm not unfair, simply cautious. The real reason I want this is because I'm 6'4" and my wife is 5'3". She thinks she'll drown in the Maxxus. Should this be the case I'd switch to the Optima. I just don't want the restocking fee's issue or run a chance of losing the whole price. If I did deliver it myself, not knowing how to handle something this large I could damage it. Whoever delivers it has to negotiate a 4' X 9'5" gate to the back yard and then roll over a 3' area of crushed rock to the concrete pad. Not something I want. But, like I said! I'll surrender and offer the guy 500 to 750 for the "buy and try option. Thanks everyone for your comments. Let’s keep it going. I'll post again today after I hear from the dealer/owner!
I think some Softtub dealers rent tubs...why don't you try that? Why on earth do you want to drop $500 to $750 on a 'buy and try' option? Why don't you stop the nonsense and educate yourself regarding what you want and don't want in a spa, then wet test the brands you like?
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to the local porsche dealership, where maybe they will let me borrow a 911 for 30 days...
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Relax, I was drawing you out, look at what you are expecting the dealer to go through to confirm your decision. I would be better for him to go throgh the trouble of setting it up for a water test so you can try them both. But again, look at what you are expecting them to do to get your business and you want to negotiate a better "deal".
My suggestion of picking it up just identifies you willingness to be involved or even to help and BTW that spa weighs 1200 pounds and look at what you expect of them. It is not uncommon to use a crane for something this big and heavy.
Like Brewman said "If they damage it, they fix it on their own dime. Cheap insurance if you ask me." And you want to "negotiate the price", get my drift.
Wet test them at the dealers place, buy the one you can afford and do not worry about your indecision.
You are going to own this for a long time and your gonna love either one of them. My wife is 5' and absolutely loves the Maxxus. Keep in mind, you do want a good relationship with the dealer.
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Ok, I have talked with the dealer and we have agreed to wet test the tub. I cannot believe my wife agreed to wet test it because she is really timid. The dealer was very nice to do it after hours. He even is going to fill a Maxus with water, chemical it and warm it up. That I appreciate, that’s good service. So does anyone know why Sundance doesn’t have a step that is designed to fit against its contoured side? Once we wet test I’ll post again! ;D
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As someone looking to buying my first tub as well, I look at it a little differently. We don't have money to burn, but I'm not as concerned about paying a few hundred dollars too much as I am with getting the right tub and the right service. I only have three dealers and four manufacturers to choose from (Sundance, Beachcomber, Catalina and Coast) and you can't wet test every model. I don't want to find three months from now I wished I'd got that lounger, the other jet configuration or the option I didn't think I'd need. Fear of buyer's remorse is my hangup. A week ago, I knew nothing about hot tubs and after several hours on this forum realize how little I still don't know. I want a dealer who I can depend on for good advice, good service and integrity. As for price, I know pretty much the most I'm prepared to spend and that you get what you pay for. That's not to say I want to get stiffed - I'm looking for value for my dollar - but at the end of the day, if two tubs are close, I'm going with the dealer I like and trust the most.
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SJK, I think you hit the nail on the head, "I'm going with the dealer I like and trust the most." It's really not about the money, it is about the realationship.
Campsalot, I should have figured your wife was timid, and I can understand that, who wants to go to a store in a swim suit and soak in a tub.
We all have issues and concerns, some of us want to buy and some of us want to sell. This shouldn't be that hard, but again, "Fear of buyer's remorse is my hangup" focus on the relationship from whom you buy.
IF, he is offering you a bargain that is toooooo goooood to believe say thank you and leave. If you have something good to offer, you don't need pressure to close. If he is unwilling to deal maybe he is honest and gave you the real price first.
It is a hard shot to call and I really wish I could help. But, it is your money and it is your decision. You're looking a good quality, you are going to have it for a long time, you're just afaid of making the wrong decision.
I believe everyone on this forum will agree, you are looking at ONE of the best, IF you want to debate the other choices, we can do that too.
What has you hung up is FEAR. "Fear of buyer's remorse is my hangup"
Focus, Focus, Focus, 1) Quality 2) Value 3) SERVICE
NOW about your deposit, make the check out to...........
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So does anyone know why Sundance doesn’t have a step that is designed to fit against its contoured side?
Have you checked with Sundance or the dealer on this?
Seems to me that one time in our dealers picking up filters and chemicals, I was looking at the Maxus and thought the stairs were contoured against the curved side. I remember thinking how nice those stairs looked.
That was probably for a 2003 or 2004 model.
Brewman
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The stairs were not available until April 1st. So they should be getting to dealers anytime now.
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Stereo speakers in the hot tub? Ahhhh no thanks! I'll save the money and spend it on a set of Bose 252 environmental speakers! (I have 3 sets of these on my deck including two right above the hot tub!) Those Bose will definitely Kick the A$$ out of any other outdoor speakers! (No I don't work for bose) Besides you think the unit driving the speakers in that hot tub is worth anything? Face it for the 500-600 option your not getting good sound! Hopefully you have something nice inside that you can drive your speakers. I'd also recomend a Niles 4 or 6 speaker selector with individual volume controls. I use the 6. But I also installed a remote outdoor Niles volume control for the speakers over the hot tub. That way you can fine tune the volume without getting out of the tub. Of course if you get a radio frequency controlled remote you could handle everything from the tub.
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Stereo's are pricey both for the dealer and the buyer. My first suggestion is to buy a boom box at Sam's and take it to the beach with you in the summer.
That is a lot of money for a specific purpose for a short period of time, and between different manufacturers I don't necessarily think they are all good.
But you know what, when I was asked how many stereo's we sold last year, I was off by greater than 50%.
People like sound. There are many different ways to get it, and they are all good.
If you can afford it, if you gatta have it, if your into the toys, or if your neighbor got, GET IT, otherwise FORGET IT.
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I popped the cash for the built in stereo in our Optima.
Worth every cent. The unit is well constructed, has been reliable, sounds great, and one less thing to lug outside when we use the spa, especially in the winter.
Totally worth it TO ME.
Brewman
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;D Wet test was a major success! My wife loves the tub and I love the price. 10 grand even,Sundance Maxxus with stereo and remote, steps, cover, lift, chemical kit, delivered! The only thing I want is the curved steps to match the contour. Wow 10g's, someone tell me I'm not nuts!
The tub is great, the lounger jets are so strong it pushes you out of the seat. My 5'3" wife did not drown.. But man was that baby hot at 101 degrees. Me thinks I'll cool it down a tad! Sign me happy but nuts! Thanks everyone! Happily waiting for the electrician!
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You're not nuts. Buy the spa, and get to soaking.
Brewman
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I got the Maxxus also..Campsalot,
You're not crazy..I just did the same thing!! ;D I picked the maxxus also.. first tub 10k!! waitng for May 9th...day of delivery..can't wait!!! :D
Rushfan :)
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Congratulations, Campsalot!
You aren't nuts, just a new member of the exclusive Spatopia club! Enjoy that tub!!!
May you always have clean, hot, bubbly water!