Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Michigander on March 13, 2005, 11:40:29 pm
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So I have been searching (endlessly) for the best spa. I enjoyed the recommendation of wet testing the spas. I have to say that time and space change everything. Can you really tell if one feels that much better than the other traveling between stores on different weekends? I digress.
I thought we had our choice narrowed down to HotSprings and Sundance (we liked those dealers best). We have yet to decide on a model. Then I read a post about Chas picking up Caldera (then of course more internet research) and our local Caldera dealer says they can provide the best price and service.
What is the difference between the Caldera's and the HotSprings both manufactured by Watkins?
The interiors of the tubs look very similar. The website for HotSprings is nicer than Caldera's. The color choices are different between the two. ???
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This is in regard to your question (your digression ;) about wet testing)!
Take a pad and pen with you. Write down your experiences, how the jets feel, if you floated, how it made you feel, workings, etc. Bascially, what you feel is important while testing the tub. This will help you comparet the wet tests, if they are that far apart. Also, when you get it narrowed down to the last 2 or 3, then wet test again. You will be amazed, even after writing down your thoughts, how different they will feel the second, or even third time to test soak!
Good luck!!!
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What is the difference between the Caldera's and the HotSprings both manufactured by Watkins?
I guess I had better create a file for answering this question - as I have for so many others...
I'm afraid I have to admit to a certain level of ignorance about Caldera. I have only worked on a few of them, and when you go to the factory, you only see the part of the plant pertaining to the line you are involved with. I plan to arrange to go through sales training all over again with Caldera dealers and technicians.
Let me tell you what I know for sure at this point: Caldera was bought by Watkins a number of years ago. Watkins MFG, the company behind all of these brands, began to pour money and talent into the Caldera tubs. They were a good line of tubs to begin with, and in my opinion became a great line of tubs. I always feared the day when there might be a Caldera dealer in my territory. Having just signed contracts to become one myself, I will now 'compete' against myself.
Caldera has a plant of it's own where the shells are pulled and then fiberglassed. Yes, I said fiberglassed. Unlike all other Watkins products, these shells are backed with fiberglass. So once those steps are finished and the cabinets are put together, the tubs are shipped to the Watkins MFG plant in Vista CA to be finished. They do not yet run anywhere near the volume of the rest of the Watkins tubs, so they have a small corner of the plant to themselves, and it takes many days longer for a dealer to get a tub - I can have most any HS model ready to ship in 48 hours. They have said anywhere from a week to two weeks during the heat of the season for Caldera. I haven't ordered my first load yet, still waiting for painters and contractors to take more of my money on the new showroom.
As to the spas themselves: Caldera has different levels or lines of tubs. They have several shells which appear in each of the lines with different levels of features. If you like the Tahitian, you can get it in the Utopia series or the Paradise series - with fewer of the little extras.
You can also look at a very similar layout with more room and all sorts of luxury features: the Geneva.
The Caldera line is fully conformed to ISO 9001, just as are all the other tubs from Watkins. They are well backed by a solid warranty, and the dealers have been getting a sort of 'realignment' to offer the type of customer service HotSpring expects, or offer somebody else's tubs.
As a result, I am looking forward to learing about these tubs - I am trying to figure out which one we want in our backyard since I STILL haven't replaced my Vista.
Above all: wet test.
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My input to the time and space issue would be if they don't generate a difference that is significant enough to place one above the other, then you probably won't make a bad decision regarding performance...Now it's the quality, service, etc., that needs to be assessed!
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I had a Caldera Geneva Utopia for about a year, sold the house and the tub was part of the sale. Due to a delivery glitch another Caldera could not be installed when the new home builder needed it. Hence I now have a HotSpring Envoy. Both tubs look quite similar and are very close in size. Both are top quality tubs.
You need to wet test them, however, as they really feel quite different. Overall, I would still pick the Geneva over the Envoy, but that is me, my preferences, my physiology. The Envoy is excellent, and I am very happy with it. Both are good products. You really need to try some different top level tubs to see what suits you the best.
Regards,
Bill
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Speaking as a fellow new spa shopper:
Most if not all the Calderas have a center raised foot area molded into the middle of the spas, to brace yourself if you tend to be pushed out of the seats at high-pressure settings. None of the HS units have this.
This feature may or may not be a "plus" for you.
We so far have visited local area dealers of both (which happened to be same dealer at different locations), along with Jacuzzi and others.
We wet tested the HS Vanguard, but not the Calderas yet. The Vanguard, which was slightly overfilled, made my wife float out of the seats on high settings.
We have also wet tested a Jacuzzi J-365, which is their only model with the same footrest type feature. We, at present, prefer it over the HS, but are still going to wet test the Calderas also.
There are other differences between the two, ask your dealers. And don't feel bad about inquiring their opinions of the other competing brands vs theirs.
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Chas I would recommend putting a Utopia Series Geneva or an Elation in your backyard. Coastal Grey Cabinet with either Champagne Opal or Silver Pearl Shell color :D
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Thanks for the tip - I have the brochure handy, I'll talk it over with the spousal unit.
;)
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Speaking as a fellow new spa shopper:
Most if not all the Calderas have a center raised foot area molded into the middle of the spas, to brace yourself if you tend to be pushed out of the seats at high-pressure settings. None of the HS units have this.
This feature may or may not be a "plus" for you.
We so far have visited local area dealers of both (which happened to be same dealer at different locations), along with Jacuzzi and others.
We wet tested the HS Vanguard, but not the Calderas yet. The Vanguard, which was slightly overfilled, made my wife float out of the seats on high settings.
We have also wet tested a Jacuzzi J-365, which is their only model with the same footrest type feature. We, at present, prefer it over the HS, but are still going to wet test the Calderas also.
There are other differences between the two, ask your dealers. And don't feel bad about inquiring their opinions of the other competing brands vs theirs.
we wet tested along the same lines as you did. did like the 365 with the foot dome. the 385 for some reason did not have it. on a crisp saturday morning we went from the 365 wet test, right down the street, and with in 30 min's got in the caldera niagra. i really think you will like that line. the foloowing weekend hit the marquis sa euphoria, and did the caldera again. still prefered caldera.......
good luck, and wet test multiple times if you feel the need. wound up buying the caldera niagra, and for $8k we wanted to be absolutely sure we got what we wanted
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Chas make sure you wet test before putting the Caldera in your back yard. ;D
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on a crisp saturday morning we went from the 365 wet test, right down the street, and with in 30 min's got in the caldera niagra.
Funny, one of our local dealers told us that we "shouldn't wet test more than one tub a day, because we would already be relaxed"
Maybe because it would be more like apples to apples? ;)
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would have to agree, apples to apples. when goig from the 365 to the naigra, right away a few differences stood out. we only spent approx 15-20 mins in the spas each. you would think that the first wet test would relax you and the second would not seem as good as first, as your already relaxed. this is strictly a personal opinion, but i think the closer together your wet tests are, the more detailed the differences will appear.
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Chas make sure you wet test before putting the Caldera in your back yard. ;D
All right smarty pants.... ;D
Actually, that's not bad idea. Those of you who remember I was looking at Santa Barbara spas, and we did put one in the back yard. I must say without a doubt: we wouldn't have put one there if we had wet tested first.
So I think I'll take your advice and wait a while. I'll have four or five of them running in my showroom once the dust settles - I'll wait and wet test !!
Good advice !!
thanks...
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O.K. I have a question... I have just roped my husband into letting me have a spa and we're talking a used spa, I found an older 98 Caldera Geneva for sale cheap Under $1500, have not seen it yet, so please bare with me. I just want to know if anyone has any idea of the difference between the old and the newer ones? I am not interested in buying a NEW one at this time so no sales pitches please ;)
Second issue the people selling have disconnected it and have it on a skid somewhere laying it on it's side. How can we determine whether or not they blew the water out. We can ask but they can lie so is there a way to check when we go see it?
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I wouldn't buy a spa used without seeing it run.
If they won't put it flat somewhere (in the garage, out on the driveway - wherever) then make arrangements to pay after it is running in your backyard. Or hold back 50% or something.
Or shop elsewhere....
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I wouldn't buy a spa used without seeing it run.
If they won't put it flat somewhere (in the garage, out on the driveway - wherever) then make arrangements to pay after it is running in your backyard. Or hold back 50% or something.
Or shop elsewhere....
I agree 100%. If the spa can't be seen running, then you should be the one running, away from this deal. Even if they set it down for you to inspect there is no way for you to fully determine if its in working order. If they wanted to get rid of it why wouldn't they leave it running so people could confirm it is in good working order as that would sell it much quicker and they could get more for it by doing so?
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Well the story is they are moving. He did tell me if I paid the day I took it he would work on the price, my husband was thinking $1000.00. Now if some parts were not in working order and needed to be replaced do you not think it is still a good deal. I know what you are saying about it not running, but if I were moving I may have disassembled it too? But on the other hand I purchased a used 72 galon fish tank and I was happy to see it full of water to feel for leaks, ::) Etc. I feel you are right, and maybe the "Deal" is clouding my judgement.
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Well the story is they are moving.
So they won't be around possibly if you have issues right off the bat and are unhappy? I'm sorry, but if I had a good spa in working order and I was moving I'd put an ad in the paper while it was still running and I'd be able to sell it quickly because people have interest in working spas sold at a reasonable price. It's much more difficult to sell a spas sitting on the side of the house unconnected as people question it as I'm doing. I personally would offer them $500 and write up a simple contract that you will pay the $900 balance within 1 month of you getting it running minus any cost you incur to get it up and running.
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Chas I would recommend putting a Utopia Series Geneva in your backyard. Coastal Grey Cabinet with Silver Pearl Shell color :D
Hey - thats what I have - Chas I highly recomend Poolboys choice !!! ;)
As for the difference - our dealer sold both in the same store - we wet tested the Geneva and Tahitian in the caldera line and the Vista and the Grandee in the Hot Springs line. We chose the Geneva based on the raised footwell as mentioned earlier and the comfort of the seating - the Escta Seat is amazing and I lover the lounger.
But - make sure you wet test - cant go wrong with either product.
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We are still going to see the Hot tub on skid Sunday but , I have also contacted a dealer who sells refurbished Hot Spring spas, we're going there first! But I am amazed they are still looking for roughly $2400-2500 for 1990's. I should not say that because I see with New stuff people paid 8-12K. I realize they have been checked out and in the long run that may be "The deal" in itself. It is our first tub and I almost have to prove to my husband that it will be used and taken care of and ultimately a worthwhile investment. He just doesn't love it (water) like I do!
I appreciate your quick feedback, thanks to you all. Joanne
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It is our first tub and I almost have to prove to my husband that it will be used and taken care of and ultimately a worthwhile investment. He just doesn't love it (water) like I do!
I appreciate your quick feedback, thanks to you all. Joanne
See...my hubby was the same way. I insisted that I wanted the tub, and now that I have my peace of heaven in my backyard, he is the first to say "Honey, don't you want to take a soak?" He rarely gets in, usually when I turn it down during the summer. But he knows that I am a much happier wife after having my soak! He also knows, if I don't get a soak for a couple of days, I tend to get cranky! If it makes me happy, he is happy! ;)
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would have to agree, apples to apples. when going from the 365 to the naigraquote]
We wet tested the Calderas today, and I have to say they "feel" more like the Jacuzzis than the Hot Springs. Very strong jets.
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Twice I have seen people refer to "investment" when talking about hot tubs. Isn't this like calling a Timeshare and investment?
Or are we talking about investment in relaxation.
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Or are we talking about investment in relaxation.
Now you're talking.
Our spa is typically a family thing but sometimes my wife will feel a little run down or stressed and proclaim to the kids that she's going in the spa ALONE to read. Every time this happens she returns noticeably refreshed and I've peeked out the window to rule out her meeting the milkman out there so I knows that's not what's relaxing her. I'll invest in anything that makes her happier as it rubs off when she's content! ;D
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like the saying goes... happy wife, happy life!
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like the saying goes... happy wife, happy life!
Isn't that what I said above?
:-/ :D ;) ;D