Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Guttboy on January 24, 2005, 07:23:32 pm
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Hi everyone!
I am moving to San Antonio in a couple of months and am having a house built there. I am considering purchasing a spa. I would most likely have it placed on the concrete patio I have yet to design in the back yard.
I am curious....what should I look for in a spa? I dont think I would need a 7 person spa but perhaps one that would include 4 people.
My friend out here in New Mexico has a Hot Spring's spa but unsure on the model and he really likes it.
I am looking at price, features, quality....etc.....
Been doing some reading here and find that there are many opinions.....thanks for all the help and anyone that lives in the San Antonio area and can recommend places to look please let me know. I will be there in March...move into the new home in June.
Thanks again everyone...glad I stumbled in here!
Regards :)
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My wife and I just purchased a Caldera Elation and just love it. We looked at a couple of other spas but the Hot Springs/Caldera seemed to be very high quality. We looked at the Thermaspa but we experienced terrible customer service and quickly marked that one off the list. I asked a number of questions on this web page and was given excellent advice which led to our purchase. We've only had ours for about two weeks but if I had to do over I may have purchased a slightly larger model. One other thing. Be very "picky" where you put the hot tub. I don't imagine it gets real cold in San Antonio but I have my tub very close to my back door. It really helps when it gets very cold....not far to run. Some of my friends have their tubs farther away from thier back doors and it seems they don't use it as much. Don't know if that's the reason but once it's wired in you really can't move it without alot of pain. Anyway, good luck with your choice. Continue to ask questions on this web site and you won't go wrong. Good Luck.
TC
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Guttboy...Love the name...
Make sure you wet test every spa on your list. One of the worst calls a dealer gets is when your spa doesn't fit you, or you float, or sit too high, too low ect.
Keep in mind you may float in one model and not another, even within the same spa manufacturer.
I think it's another good way to see your dealer's attitude and temperment. The relationship you have wih your dealer will be ongoing.
Spend some time learning the functions of each tub. And if your testing quite a few spas, take notes.
Goodluck and happy hunting!
Spahappy :D
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Be very "picky" where you put the hot tub. I don't imagine it gets real cold in San Antonio but I have my tub very close to my back door. It really helps when it gets very cold....not far to run. Some of my friends have their tubs farther away from thier back doors and it seems they don't use it as much.
I always preach the same thing.
Guttboy,
If you go to the websites of the major manufacturers you typically will find a website that allows you to enter your zip code to see where their nearest dealer is. Everyone has their favorite spa manufacturers but for Quality and Service reasons my list is in no particular order: D1, Hot Spring, Caldera, Marquis, Sundance and Jacuzzi (others have their favorites such as Master, Dynasty, Coleman, etc.). Use the websites to see who is close by, visit as many as you can, get a feel for how well you think they'll take care of you both before and after the sale, wet test your favorite 2 or 3 and purchase that which seems best for you.
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Great advice everyone!
I am not really sure on price ranges for spa's....I see advertised ones from 2000 up to 10000 and more I guess.
It is just me and the lady who will use it primarily....perhaps a guest or two but just two people for the most part.
What are some common "newbie" things to avoid when walking into the dealer and asking questions....are there scams to be aware of...not saying that hot tub salespeople are bad mind you but for someone new going into this big purchase there may be things to look out for such as when buying a car!
When you figure out which one you really like....then how long from when you order it can a dealer usually get one to you? Its not like months is it?
Can they also set it up for you? My reasoning is that I have absolutely NO way to move such a massive thing to my house and I honestly dont know how anyone could move it over or between the fence (standard opening about 3' wide to the backyard.)
Got tons of questions but will leave it at that for now....by the way how long do you usually research these things? Months? Are there any good websites besides this and the dealer ones to go to? Are there brands to avoid......Right now the HotSpring's Envoy looks to be the one I like so far from the pictures/features.
Thanks again for the nice welcome! And I will be sure to pick a nice location for it as we still havent even built the house or the patio yet...still in the blueprint stages....I would like to be able to look up at the stars while in the tub!!!!!
Regards!
Mike :)
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Most dealers I went to said they would set up a spa but wouldn't lift it over a fence. The dealer I bought from said the need a 42" opening (I have a 41" and they said it's ok) and they will place a spa on a deck up to 48" tall. Anything above that they would use a crane - that would be $$$. Also my dealer will come back after they deliver the spa and the electric is installed to give me an orientation. This may be true of a lot of dealers - just ask.
As for delivery time - it seems it all depends on the dealer and the inventory that they carry. My tub will take about 6 weeks from ordering to receive but reading here some people get theirs delivered next day IF the dealer has it in stock.
As far as price range Hot Springs tend to be a little more costly than other tubs. I looked at a 2004 Vanguard for about $7,400 with ozone, lifter and steps to give you a reference. I was told by all the dealers I went to that the 2005 prices will be more due to petroleum prices.
As far as researching ... I have been researching for years, dreaming of the day I could afford a tub - LOL and I have a friend who went out and bought a tub in one day. There's no set rule!
Good Luck and Enjoy!
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Thanks for the info Vinny.....
Is setup something that should be negotiated with the dealer?
It seems as though from the reading here that its kind of a bargaining process with the dealer for the best deal you can get whether it be accessories or price or whatever....
Regards,
Mike
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Hi Mike,
I bought my tub in 2003 (HotSpring Vanguard) and I love it.
Ok, that being said, my advice would be: WET TEST, WET TEST, and WET TEST! (In no particular order!)
I had a crane delivery, long story, but I didn't check the clearance before I bought, but in my area it ended up being very affordable.
Good luck!
You might try a search on ZZ Top's posts, I think he had a great posting about this very subject!
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Guttboy,
I believe that you will make the right decision on your spa purchase once you do the following;
A.. Visit with 3 to 4 local dealers, get some insight on what they have, how long they have been dealing with the particular brand they are offering, who is doing their follow up service, if needed. I feel that this is the MOST important step in your purchasing process. Service is key, I don't care how much you spend, but if you cannot get it service is is useless.
B.. Look for something that is within your means, don't overspend if you don't have to. Not everyone drives a Mercedes...
C.. There are alot of good brands out there, it can become very confusing, take your time and select one that you feel comfortable with. Not only the spa, but the dealer as well.
D. CRUCIAL..., WET TEST... Make sure you wet test the models that you have interest in. It may look like a great spa for your needs, but you may not fit comfortably in it. You must WET TEST before you buy.
I am sure there are more issues to purchasing a spa, but these are the ones that I feel won't get you in trouble.
Good Luck in your search... ;)
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Guttboy,
What Lori and hottuber said is true.
In my area (NJ) crane delivery is expensive, in other areas it may not be. Also, as hottubber said look into your pocket also. If you can afford and want a 9,000 tub for example then by all means buy it, but there are alternitives.
In my case I started at $5,000 and wasn't finding anything that I liked. I upped it to $6,000 and saw some and upped it again to $7,000 and found my tub. It wasn't the cheapest that I looked at but it worked for me.
In my search, I probably went to see 12 or so tubs and dealers, Some were OK , some were awful and some were great. Some dealers work on their own equipment and some don't. My dealer told me that they give preferential treatment to their customers when the tub needs service.
As far as negotiating the setup, most dealers said they would deliver and set up (none said they would hook up the electric and I wouldn't expect them to). Quite frankly, I didn't negotiate anything for my tub - I walked in and talked to the dealer, she gave me a price and I thought it was fair, so I bought it.
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Go with you gut, Boy..... ;D
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LOL thanks.....
What do you look for in a Dry test and in a Wet test...
I totally uncerstand a wet test is how it is going to feel but on a dry test....?????
Regards,
:)
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When I read the original post my first thought was of the consistency of this question. I know I posed it when I first started looking for a tub.
I remebered some excellent posts (ZZTop especially but not exclusively) at having put together an excellent compilation of what to look for in a hot tub, what to ask dealers when shopping, some tricks like writing down information about likes and dislikes (Lori) and many many others.
I wonder if it would be appropriate to have something like that put together. Kinda like a an FAQ or top 10 questions asked. Seems to me that a lot of repetition is made whenever this and other frequently asked questions are posted.
I like seeing the answers and it does add a great personal touch when we all chime in to answer, but it may also provide a great resource to the WWW if some of these were put into some greater form.
McCall you mentioned that there was some thought of looking at the forum's structure and maybe re-designing some parts of it. I thought first of sending this via PM but then thought open to all may bring about a discussion about others ideas about this forum and what would be seen as improving an already excellent information resource IMHO.
I wont be offended if this post is removed as it is not really spa related.
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Doodoo,
I would consider it on topic. You are just trying to direct him to valuable posts. And in the process, you are giving great insight!
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Hmmm....I agree....but however I find it hard to search in here.....only limited to a small range.....and when ever I type in ZZtop.....I get ....other things in the search.....
Any advice would be appreciated...thanks
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I'll see if I can't find it!
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This is a repost of ZZTop's post of May, 2004, which was titled "How To negotiate buying a hot tub" (or something close to that)! Sorry if I quoted wrong! ;D
One of the most often asked subjects on the board.
Hot tubs are more difficult to buy than a car or a house as a tremendous amount of research and knowledge is required before one can make an informed and intelligent choice.
Prior to purchasing a Hot Tub if you have Tendonitis, Arthritis, soft tissue injuries etc get a prescription from your Doctor for Hydro Therapy ( A Hot Tub). In most jurisdictions you can write off the entire Purchase or at least the taxes. Check with your accountant.
Of course in negotiating to just get a deal on the tub is not enough. There are a large number of costly extras, which are must haves which one has to buy anyway, and you do not want to pay on the nose for after the sale.
Here is a list of Hot Tub features you may want to consider:
For example in purchasing our Beachcomber 550X Hot Tub: the Protect Feature, (easier access, much quieter operation, ( You can have a conversation in the tub while the pump is on high speed), the tub is fully insulated on all four sides, gives you a step to get into the tub) I am convinced this is the most energy efficient design, 24 hour silent hush pump (the most energy efficient and cost effective filtration system), ozone system, either UV or CD, ( helps use less chemicals and can save on chemical costs), LED Lighting, really Cool at night, Reflex Foot massage, a must have, a really great option, A choice of jets which are interchangeable, (Note you can totally change the personality of a tub by changing the jets), A hand held jet, (great for hitting that special place the other jets never quite get.), Everwood exterior, totally maintenance free, unlike cedar, A suite of chemicals, Chemical test Kit, an extra filter, filter cleaner canister, Upgraded power smart Cover, a Spa Blanket, ( a Spa blanket will insulate the surface of the water where the greatest heat loss occurs, it protects the cover from absorbing moisture and from chemical damage both of which contribute to premature wear), A Cover lift, a 5.5 kw heater for fast reheating, a Five year Premium Guarantee all at 50% of their advertised retail price. Delivery and set up usually costs around $200 - 250.00 Which still leaves foundation and Electrical including GFI .
Now have I missed anything?
Oh yes the tub must have a floor drain. As a tub's water should be changed every 3 months and you do not want to have to bail the last 6 inches of water out of the tub before you can refill it.
And one other subject comes to mind. Color of the Tub. The white colors reflect the light at night best however shows the most dirt, A Tub with a rough textured surface does not show scratches, smooth surfaces will show scratches, the darker colors wear well, your choice.
One must not forget that the greatest benefit of a hot tub is HYDROTHERAPY, that is WARM WATER.
Then comes COMFORT.
Do you want a lounger?, how many seats? Check the water depth. Many Spas are quite shallow. Look for a depth of 38 inches, a reasonable size foot well and a water capacity of 350 gallons or more.
The Jet therapy is secondary and totally subjective to the individual. That is why the number of jets, number of pumps, horsepower etc can be very misleading.
The best advice WET TEST!
The more Pumps and features the greater the cost of operation and maintenance in the long term. Unless absolutely necessary do not get a 110 Volt tub, the 230-240 volts are much more efficient.
Be aware of all the GIMMICKS, like Water Falls, Misters, Head Pillows, Stereo systems, TV's, Ice Wells, Beer dispensers, Towel Warmers, Lighting systems, (Although the LED lighting at night is really cool), Sperm Skimmers, Aroma therapy, Air pumps, Thermopane, Microban, etc.
Buy Quality! This is an investment which should last you a long time and have easy maintenance and trouble free operation for many years to come.
Choose a Dealer with a good track record, who has been in business for a long time and treats you right as you may need to rely on him/her after the sale for service.
Consider the top six Manufacturers however it should be mentioned that there are many manufactuers who build quality products.
Read all the threads on this Board. (http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/) It is filled with a wealth of tips and information posted by my fellow posters. Also have a look at these sites:
www.poolandSpa.com:8080/~2/login
www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/bbs/config.pl
I hope this will serve as a basic guide to what to look for and negotiate when entering the world of SpaTopia.
Top Six Hot Tub Manufactures:
Beachcomber
Marquis Spas
Dimension One
Caldera Spas
Jacuzzi
Sundance Spas
Watkins Manufacturing
Hotspring
Caldera
There are many other manufacturers who build great products. The above manufacturers come up on this board most often. After reading all the threads you can get a feel for what is quality and what is not. What features are important and what is fluff. Watch out for the gimmicks which can take the focus off of what is quality.
Regards, ZzTop (John B.)
04/27/04
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Wow great info!!! thanks for the repost of that Lori.....very helpful!
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I thought it might be! ;D
And I sure couldn't have said it any better!!! ;)
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Thank you so much for the repost on buying a spa! I discovered this forum recently while doing some research for our first spa purchase. The posts here have helped me ask far more informed questions of the dealers to whom I've talked. Thank you all.
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Don't be sold on horsepower and/or # of jets. This is a common sales technique.
Spas are designed to produce gallons per minute per jet. The horsepower required depends on the number of jets. Too many jets leave you feeling like your sitting in a blender. Look for variety, fit to your muscle groups as well as comfort control at each seat.
A cool down area is important (to me). I also like elbow rests. And if you have injuries or concern about slipping-don't get a smooth surface.
The dealer who attempts to find out as much as she/he can in regards to how you intend to use your spa, what your requirements are, if you have children, injuries, any issues electrically, etc. should go to the top of the list.
Test soak, test soak, test soak- my only rules are no thongs, no speedos and recently added no nudity. ::)
;
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Here are a few things i think people should think about when buying a spa. First, make sure you buy from a good company that is well established in your area. Second, spas are like everything else you and I buy ( i.e. cars, carpet, washing machine) You get what you pay for. I love my Hotspring Prodigy and I wish you luck on your hot tub search.
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ZZTOP wrote
"Be aware of all the GIMMICKS, like Water Falls, Misters, Head Pillows, Stereo systems, TV's, Ice Wells, Beer dispensers, Towel Warmers, Lighting systems, (Although the LED lighting at night is really cool), Sperm Skimmers, Aroma therapy, Air pumps, Thermopane, Microban, etc."
Granted, some of these items listed are just gimmicks that seem appealing but add no real value, but ZZTOP is also a full foam advocate and when he states that Thermopane is a gimmick, I have to protest.
There are some companies that have introduced a different way of insulating their spas, called Thermopane, and it is a contentious point of debate on this forum. Don't let the fact that a spa is thermopane designed turn you away from their product.
I am a Coleman owner and it was their thermopane design as well as their metal frame that turned me onto them. You will find much info on this website regarding the 2 different insulations types, "full foam and thermopane".
Now on the other hand, any spa that has a beer dispenser should certainly not be called a gimmick. I would call this a "must have"! Provided I don't have to replenish the dispencer myself. :)
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The Buyers Guide section has lots of great advice too and should be overlooked:
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/guide.shtml
Other than that, lots of great advice above, but I tend to agree with Rick that many parts of ZZ's post is catered to the product he purchased (Beachcomber).
As a former dealer of Beachcomber I recognize alot of what ZZ wrote as staples of the Beachcomber sales presentation/tactics......not that there is anything wrong with that.
Peolple will advise you to buy the way they did for 2 reasons:
1)They are happy and satisfied.
That does not mean what is right for them is right for you.
2)They feel the need (subconsciously) to justify there decision.
HTM
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Sperm Skimmers? What is a Sperm Skimmer? Now hot tubs are used for birth control.
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Hey the Jacuzzi Premium has a sperm skimmer at the filter and a spa condom on the intakes.
I don't think I'd rely on this for birth control though. ::)
Spahappy :D
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Hi,
Im going through the motions of buying a spa room too. alot of good answers have come out in this thread, particularly does jets matter. I unfortunately am attracted to a few of the gimmicks that ZZ's post mentioned. I like the idea of an audio/visual system in a tub. I understand its not everyone's cup of tea though too. What I am curiously interested in though, are the manufacturers whom I should avoid like the plague. Dealers that sell notoriously faulty goods or overpriced for the quality. Also, is there an industry "average" pricing guide on stuff like: with X types of jets, and Y features you should expect to pay somewhere around Z.
Ive only been to a couple of dealers in my area and Ive seen tubs range from $2,000 to as much as $16,000. The wet test sounds very important, and I'll be sure to try out a tub that I am very interested in before buying, but cmon, when you are soaking in hot water and jets are hitting you, its kind of hard to say this doesnt feel good! :)
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It is highly possible to purchase a spa that not only fits your hydro-therapy needs but also fills your desires for audio/visual stimulation. You might want to check out the Utopia and aquatic melodies series by Caldera Spas, the Newly redesigned 2005 Calofornian by Dimension One Spas, the Vista and Envoy by Hot Spring Spas, the euphoria & reward by marquis spas just to name a few.
Jason,
Store manager for a D-1 & Caldera Spas Dealer
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Buy the hot tub you like the most and buy a hot tub you can maintain. Wait, can you do that?
P.S. Does this list include six manufacturers, nine manufacturers, four manufacturers, or...?
"Top Six Hot Tub Manufactures:
Beachcomber
Marquis Spas
Dimension One
Caldera Spas
Jacuzzi
Sundance Spas
Watkins Manufacturing
Hotspring
Caldera"
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Watkins Manufacturing produces the following:
HotSpring Portable Spas
Tiger River Spas
Solana Spas
Hot Spot Spas
Caldera Spas.
Jacuzzi and Sundance are owned by the same company, and also make a few others such as Gatsby and Sweetwater spas.
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Yes, sitting in hot water with jets going, it does feel great in any tub. Wet testing is really important for a few reasons, you will find out if you have a tendency to float (if I had bought because of price alone, I would be floating in a Jacuzzi, personally), or if seats are too deep (or too shallow, if you are tall, I am vertically challenged), if the jets hit the right spots, and I could go on, but I won't.
It was the second wet test I did which confirmed my choice. I was the most comfortable in my Vanguard, than any of the other tubs I tested. But that is my experience! Others have different spas they chose, but the wet tests confirmed the choice.
Good luck!