Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Max78 on February 12, 2005, 03:32:23 pm
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Is anyone aware of a $45.00 warranty processing fee from Sundance (dealers or owners)? I just went out to add some chemicals to my Optima and the display was flashing between "105" and "OH". Booklet says heater is deactivated. My temp is set at 98. I called my dealer and the service dept. will contact me Monday to set up an appointment. I was asked how I would like to handle the $45.00 warranty processing fee. This took me by surprise. I was told this was something that Sundance started at the beginning of this year. I have had my spa for 5 months. One of the reasons I went with Sundance was because of the warranty and was told there were no charges for work covered under the warranty. This dealer came highly recommended by many people I know and one person in particular who purchased a tub from them 11 years ago and is still very satisfied. Anyone else know of this charge?? I tried to call Sundance but offices are closed til Monday.
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I am not aware of this processing fee. I am guessing this is what most call a per-trip charge.
Mileage to your house is not included in the warranty. Some dealers do charge for this, some do not.
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Unbelievably crappy, in my humble opinion. Shameful customer service. Five months?
Our local Sundance dealer (also sells hot springs) would never charge for warranty work.
Elle
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I am shocked also. This dealer has been in business for 16 years and came highly recommended. I specifically questioned him regarding ANY charges during the warranty period. I was told there would not be any charges during the warranty period and there would be NO mileage charged either. But today they said they would charge the $45.00 warranty processing fee for paperwork which Sundance supposedly implemented this year PLUS they wanted to charge me .30 cents a mile for anything over 20 miles. I live 80-90 miles away! I was told they could waive the mileage since it was their policy but couldn't waive the warranty processing fee since that was imposed by Sundance. I am extremely frustrated and feel I am getting stung big time. I still need to talk to the owner directly plus I am going to speak to Sundance. I feel that part of the price you pay is for the warranty and you should not be charged any extra fees. Otherwise, I could have purchased a cheaper spa, banked the extra money and drew interest on it and used that money for any repairs.
Are there any Sundance dealers on this board who are aware of this new processing fee??? Or is my dealer just trying to make a little extra on warranty work???
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Just curious, when you purchased did you purchase from your closest Sundance dealer? 90 miles seems like a long drive.
I don't think Sundance implemented anything this year (about 99.9999%) sure. I think your dealer is asking you to pay for mileage. You are 90 miles away and if I purchased a spa from a dealer 90 miles away I would expect to be charged for mileage. That is just me.
Just so you are aware, the dealer has the right to charge you, for what he is charging you even if you don't like it.
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Chris,
The closest dealer is 75 miles away. This one was a few miles further but I didn't figure 15 miles was going to make that big of a difference if I was driving 75 to begin with. He has several customers in this area. Like I said previously, I specifically questioned the owner regarding any and all charges I would incur during warranty work. I was told there would NOT be any. I also questioned about mileage charges. He said there would NOT be any during the warranty period. Now, today I am told there will be a $45.00 "Warranty Processing Fee" that was passed on to dealers by Sundance at the beginning of this year PLUS a .30 cent per mile charge for anything over 20 miles that also started at the beginning of this year. They told me they could waive the mileage charge but not the "Warranty Processing Fee" since it was charged by Sundance and not by them. You are right. He has a right to charge whatever he wants but I think it is bad customer service to sell a product and give the impression that there are no charges (mileage or otherwise) for warranty work then turn around 5 months later and decide to change the policy and not let their customers be aware of it until they call for service. I spent 5 months researching and reading this board plus numerous other sites and thought I had found a reputable dealer, which was something that was stressed as very important. I talked to other customers who had purchased spas there and asked the dealer numerous questions (including any charges for warranty work...I was told there would be mileage charges and hourly charges AFTER the warranty expired but none before). So I guess a person can do all of their homework, wet test numerous brands, get references from previous customers, ask the dealer all of the questions you can possibly ask and still end up in a situation like this.
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I feel so badly for you, Max. I'm just thinking about my own warranty issues and they pale in comparison. In my case, I had major warranty work. My dealer was out at my house at least 10 times while the issue was being resolved. Will you be charged the warranty processing fee with each visit, or it is a one shot deal regardless of how many times they have to come out? In my case, I am about 15 miles from my dealer. I could actually understand the milage fee for as far as you are from them...but I certainly do not understand the other fee.
Elle
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A rip-off to be sure for a 5 month old spa, IMHO.
Here's another spa dealer/car dealer comparison, with advance apologies to the few honest dealers in both (I think all the honest ones are on these boards!). When my van had trouble under the extended warranty (full coverage, no deductible), the dealer said no problem. When I went to pick up the car, I was charged $30.85 over and above the warranty amount for "shop fees"! I complained to the warranty company but was told the dealer had a right to charge such fees. I know how you feel! >:(
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I'd call Sundance customer service and ask about thsi "new" policy. I can certainly see a trip charge but that should have been discussed and even put in writing at the time of pruchase.
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Maybe the dealer really isn't that good after all - considering they are willing to gamble your future relationship over 45$ ???
Did your friends who recommended the dealer have any situations arise that 'tested' the metal of the dealer in question over their time owning their tub? If so, how did they handle it?
Jc
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As a Sundance dealer for quite some time, I am not aware of any processing fee charged by Sundance. I will,
although state that if you are 90 miles from my location, I probably would consider a travel fee to difer some of cost for gas. Warrantee service is covered 100% for parts and labor, the dealer has the discretion to charge for travel in extenuating circumstances
Quick question though, 90 miles away? Sundance typically puts dealers in a tighter area than that. I wish I could be of more help, I would contact Sundance also.
Good luck with your dealer. I am sure if you called them to let them know it was never mentioned during the sales presentation, they may wave the charge. If they don't, then send your friends elsewhere to buy. And, let them know that... :-/
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I'm just in the process of shopping for a tub, but when I used the dealer locator for Sundance, our closest dealer is 120 miles away :(. We live in a very rural area in TX. The closest metropolitan area of any size is 120 miles from us. So it's a two hour drive just for me to go shopping for a tub. As far as I can tell from researching the different brands and using the dealer locators on each site, my choices will include Hot Springs, Coleman, Jacuzzi, D-1's, and Sundance. The closest Marquis dealer was 4 hours away and in Oklahoma.
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I am also not aware of any such charge, and I know many Sundance dealers.
I think your dealer figures he has you over a barrel. He doesn't: call the factory. Call the factory and explain, and ask them to either send the other dealer or have it taken care of some other way - for example ask the factory if there is a local repair person they may have used or are willing to use to help you.
A mileage charge is a fact of life for those of us who live in rural parts, sorry. But this other charge sounds trumped up.
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The Sundance warranty says that dealers may impose their own trip charges for warranty work. That's a dealer thing, not a Sundance thing. I bet your dealer's just trying to keep you from being upset at him.
Brwman
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Brewman,
Well, it's not working if that is what he is trying to do. He wanted to charge for mileage AND processing the paperwork which would be approx. $93.00 total. I think that is unreasonable.
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max,
I agree with you, I can see a trip charge, maybe...
But to charge for this processing fee, I don't agree with
that. You should get a call to Sundance about it. It
seems that something there is not right.
Let us know how you make out.
Thanks, and good luck.
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Brewman,
Well, it's not working if that is what he is trying to do. He wanted to charge for mileage AND processing the paperwork which would be approx. $93.00 total. I think that is unreasonable.
Wow! You were "told there would not be any charges during the warranty period and there would be NO mileage charged either" and now they are wanting to charge for both Mileage and a processing fee? (perchance did you get that in writing?)
If that's the case then your dealer is not one to be recommended. As others have said, go directly to Sundance.
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>:(
Isn't it sad that for $93.00, the dealer is willing to lose
credibility AND future sales, without a doubt...
What is god's name are they thinking.
To the dealer: You must reconsider your stance here,
BITE the bullet, take care of your future, and your client.
To the manufacturer: (if this is the case), rethink this
processing fee or at least reach out to your dealer, he
or she needs a talking to about this. :o
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No, like a fool, it was just verbal. My big mistake. I am so disgusted with it all right now that I'm considering selling the darned thing. What is a fair price for a 2004 Optima manufactured in late August '04 and used 5 months? Anyone interested?
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max,
D/C will be on your doorstep in a minute. He's been looking for a great deal on a Sundance Spa.
Seriously, I don't think you need to rid yourself of your spa. I think you need to find a dealer who will stand behind this product regardless of the problems which may occur.
Once resolved, you may not have any additional problems with your spa for the duration of ownership.
Hang in there. ;)
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Max -
I will give you 5000 for it. What do you say?
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Don't think so d/c. Might cut that kind of a deal to a relative but I have a feeling we are not related.
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I'd like to see how this ends up. As many have mentioned, a travel charge isn't unrealistic as dealers don't get paid for long distance travel under warranty work. That being said, we waived any travel charges when service was required in the first 6 months.
If they are referring to this as a "processing fee", then I would be jumping up and down (preferably on the salesman face ;) ). What does it show in your documentation as far as fees? You must have a copy of this right? Tell them to fax you a copy of your invoice where it shows this fee.
This is the sort of service that manufacturer’s must be made aware of to weed out the dealers not interested in customer service. The best thing you can do is not support this dealer financially from this point on.
Steve
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Brewman,
Well, it's not working if that is what he is trying to do. He wanted to charge for mileage AND processing the paperwork which would be approx. $93.00 total. I think that is unreasonable.
I think so too.
Brewman
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This is digusting! Are they going to charge the fee with every seperate warranty issue you may have.
I'd really like to find out if this is a Sundance policy. We have two big home shows comming up and Sundance will be at both shows.
I do not sell my product by cutting down my competition, however if Sundance has implemented this policy I think the potential buyers need to know.
BTW I feel Sundance makes a good spa, but this post and other one that taz posted just goes to show even a long time manufacturer can have service issues. Thats why a good warranty is sooo important.
When a manufacturer puts a five year warranty on parts, plumbing, electrical, and service, that tells me they really don't expect many claims. Think about it, how long is the warranty on you car? If Sundance has this $45.00 warranty processing fee that tells me they may be having higher than average claims to process. IMO.
Spahappy :D
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So far no Sundance sales person, on this board, or over on Dr. Spa's board, has said anything about Sundance charging a processing fee. I'm thinking this is Taz' dealer playing games, and blaming it on Sundance.
In my uneducated opinion, the negative publicity they'd get over such a stunt would cost more than $45 per warranty claim.
If Sundance's pricing actuaries, or whoever, are doing their job, they've already got an adequate cost added in for the warranty coverage they provide.
Brewman
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I called around based on this post, and talked to some dealers in the Cleveland area. This is what I got told:
Hot Springs - 50.00 trip fee for EACH new problem. No charge if same problem, or needs more parts to fix it and not on truck.
Sundance - 75.00 trip charge, plus 1.00 / mile over 30 miles.
Master - 45.00 trip fee after 90 days. No additional charge if same problem.
Now Arctic, Coast, and Cal Spa dealers wouldnt tell me till AFTER I put money down on a spa. Something very shaddy there.
One dealer told me his service area is 20 miles period. If you bought from him and need work and live further away, find another technician.
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Max,
I just got off the phone with Sundance. According to them there is no such document processing fee.
They said the dealer has the right to charge a trip charge and or mileage, but would doubt they would charge both. But thats up to the dealer.
He told me to go back to the dealer and let them know that I talked to Sundance and they definatly DO NOT charge this fee.
Not only should you call this dealers bluff but you should report them to the people at Sundance.
The phone number is 909-606-7733. Dealers like this give this industry poor representation and unfortunatly a few bad apples can sour the whole bunch.
Knowlage is power, and this forum is a great resource.
Spahappy :D
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Now Arctic, Coast, and Cal Spa dealers wouldnt tell me till AFTER I put money down on a spa. Something very shaddy there.
One dealer told me his service area is 20 miles period. If you bought from him and need work and live further away, find another technician.
Wow. These are the kind of things you want to find out while you're shopping.
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Arctic told me before, during, and after that there would be no such processing fee for warrenty work.
This has completely been proven to be the case.
Nothing shady here what-so-ever.
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So it all boils down to the individual dealer, regardless.
Brewman
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I phoned my dealer just now and got the same answer that spahappy gave. Sundance has not issued any such policy or directive.
From what I can see here is that your dealer is simply trying to dig into your pockets after sales. It seems that you have tried your best to explain your discontent to your dealer with no results in good customer management. So, I agree, I would phone Sundance and complain to them and let your dealer know that you are doing this. I would also document everything and send this to Sundance with a request that they do one of several things: 1) have the tub fixed at no charge to you to repair the serious damage that has been done; 2) have Sundance pick up the tub at their cost with a consideration for a reduction in the usage that you have had which should be small given the level of your frustration; 3) pay the charge and trash the dealer at every opportunity but I personally don't think Sundance would let it come to this.
As a Sundance Optima owner I am not only shocked by this but deeply believe that Sundance has to step in and make things right.
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this sounds to very 100% dealer issue.
i am currently negotiating final price right now on a caldera niagra. local dealer, been here for 26 years, has sold hot springs/caldera/tiger river for 19 of those years, and will put it in writing that under warrantee, there is no trip charges, or out of pocket expenses at all.(with in 35 miles)
they even cover shipping of the whole spa back to the factory if local service guys cant repair it.
now its down to the fun part. trying to get the best value.....
wet tested a lot, and have been scouring the net for info and opinions, and i greatly appreciate all the info i have gotten here.
as a side note, i had asked several times about clearwater spas in washington. they make spas for several net brokers, AND as it turns out several Ebay comps also. ironically it was the photos on the ebay website (pinnacle spas)that closed them out for me. the photos of the access panel open, looks like something my kids put together.....
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After finally talking to the owner this is what I was told:
No, the warranty processing fee was not imposed by Sundance. The salesman was mistaken about this. Of course, this was after I told them I had spoken to Sundance and Sundance knew nothing about this new charge. The new $45.00 fee is now store policy.
Yes, when I purchased my spa in September of '04 the store policy was NO charges of any kind for warranty work. And yes, they agreed that is what they told me. But that was the policy then and effective the first of this year, the policy has changed. They are going to charge this processing fee and mileage (although they were going to wave the mileage for this trip).
I feel the terms you sell a spa to a customer under should be honored for the length of the warranty not til you decide to change your mind. I feel I have been deceived. I had a long and heated conversation with the owner and we did not see eye to eye on this one. I told him I felt I had been lied to but he did not see it that way. He blamed it on increased costs that he had no control over. No one has control over those things but you shouldn't tell a customer one thing then not honor that when the time comes to deliver on it. After a long period of time he agreed to also waive the processing fee this time but could not do it in the future.
I know dealers have a right to charge reasonable fees for warranty work. But don't tell a customer when they purchase a spa that there will be no charges for warranty work then change it when they call for service (especially on a 5 month old spa).
Am I being unreasonable when I expected the policy of NO charges during the warranty period to be for the life of the warranty and not just until they decided to change their policy??
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You have a written warranty. It states they can impose a trip charge. It says nothing of the other fee. I would politely let him know that I would not be paying it and that if needed I would get Sundance involved.
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Not sure but I think this "Warranty Processing Fee" is his way of charging a trip charge. Like I said, he can legally charge a fee. My beef is I was told there would be NO fees of any type charged to perform warranty work when I purchased the spa. He agrees I was told that. Now he wants to charge. It's more a matter of etchics.
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HotSpring changed the amount they pay to dealers for warranty work several years ago. They simply kept paying the old fee until all of the tubs which were sold under that agreement finally went out of warranty. New spas, sold after the change date, paid at the new rate. It was that simple. During the change-over time, we had to remember which serial numbers got paid which labor amount.
As a dealer, if I add a surcharge, fuel charge, cost of living increase, trip charge or any other charge, it applies only to those customers who were told about it up front. The rest get the old deal until their warranty is done.
Now, that being said, I have had to ask a customer to wait several days so I could send the technician out once to a distant city instead of twice. Most of our folks understand something like this - but if I was ever pushed on it, I would have to admit that I didn't tell them about it up front and if it was a huge problem for them to wait, I would eat the cost of sending my guy out for two trips. (I don't charge trip charges).
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After talking with the service tech yesterday, he had me try some different things while he was on the phone with me. Had me turn off power, wait a bit, then turn it back on. Had me turn circulation pump duration to zero (although circulation pump continued to run after this and did not shut off even after waiting awhile). Temperature of the water was 103 according to the display and 2 pool thermometers I had put in the water (I had thermostat set at 98 ). I also left the cover off for 7 hours the night before but temperature never dropped at any time. He was puzzled and said he had was not sure what it could be. He had me drain a few inches of water and refill. That did bring the temperature down to about 77 when I powered it back up. I set temp to 98 and set my circulation pump to 24 hours and filter cycles to one hour each (same as I've had them set since I got the tub 5 months ago). Today, everything seems to be running normal. Once the tub came up to 98 last night, it has remained there. Called the service tech today and he is not sure why this happened. He is not sure what drove the temperature up to 103 and kept it there. He said water running through pumps creates friction which in turn generates heat but doesn't think all of that could have been from the circulation pump.
So I hope that is the end of this problem and it doesn't happen again. But the point of this entire thing was the fee I was going to be charged that I was told I wouldn't be charged when I purchased the tub. So far, I haven't been charged anything since everything was done on the phone.
Chas, I wish you had been my dealer. To honor the terms you sold a tub under til the warranty expires is, to me, only good business. To sell someone a tub and tell them there is NO charge for warranty work (trip charge or mileage - which the owner admitted I was told when I purchased the tub) then change your policy 3 months later and expect them to pay charges is extremely bad business.
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Man, that is very poor customer service to change their policy and not honor their agreement with you.
We have a huge service area (all of Northeast Texas and Northwest Louisiana) and we have never charged a trip fee (for warranty work). Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and give a little extra to keep your customers happy.
CEO
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I totally agree, we have been in business 13 years and have never charged a service call for warranty work
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This was an interesting thread!
I have not asked for an explanation yet but the paperwork that the local HS dealer uses states
"All warranty work to be performed on the premises of Lifestyles" I will definitely have to get them to explain this to me.
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I am shocked also. This dealer has been in business for 16 years and came highly recommended. I specifically questioned him regarding ANY charges during the warranty period. I was told there would not be any charges during the warranty period and there would be NO mileage charged either. But today they said they would charge the $45.00 warranty processing fee for paperwork which Sundance supposedly implemented this year PLUS they wanted to charge me .30 cents a mile for anything over 20 miles. I live 80-90 miles away! I was told they could waive the mileage since it was their policy but couldn't waive the warranty processing fee since that was imposed by Sundance. I am extremely frustrated and feel I am getting stung big time. I still need to talk to the owner directly plus I am going to speak to Sundance. I feel that part of the price you pay is for the warranty and you should not be charged any extra fees. Otherwise, I could have purchased a cheaper spa, banked the extra money and drew interest on it and used that money for any repairs.
Are there any Sundance dealers on this board who are aware of this new processing fee??? Or is my dealer just trying to make a little extra on warranty work???
If someone told you there was no cost for warrnaty when you bought it 5 months ago..... Have you talked to THAT specific person? If it was a salesman who is no longer there, then you should talk directly to the owner. The GM is trying to break even at the cost of future business (What are the odds you'll need another spa in less than 5 more years)? Talk to the OWNER ONLY! Point him to this website. Let them know that your comments on here CAN effect his business directly. If all else fails call you local TV channel "action 9" reporter...
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I have talked to the owner directly. We were on the phone for almost an hour the other day because of this. He agrees with me that I was told there would be NO charges for warranty work when I purchased the spa in August of last year. He said that was their policy at that time. However, I was not informed that the policy was going to change on 1/1/05 and he knows I was not told about this. He says that in order to continue giving excellent customer service they now need to charge a processing fee and mileage to do warranty work. IMO, in order to give excellent customer service you should honor the terms that were in effect when you sold the spa.
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Didn't your dealer first claim that this $45 warranty fee was from Sundance? If so, that would make me madder than anything else, trying to shift the blame.
Brewman
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A salesperson claimed it was from Sundance. Later, when I questioned that salesperson again about the fee he said it was from Sundance. I then told him I had spoken with Sundance and they knew nothing about a new fee. After that, the owner called and said the salesperson was mistaken about the fee being from Sundance. The new fee was from their store.
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I bought my Marquis from a dealer 60 miles away. He has been out twice in the last 2 years at no charge to me. Although I'm sure I could by my chemicals from somewhere else cheaper I buy only from him and he ships them to me. I know that he probably looses money coming out for a call but as he has been so helpful I give him all my business and I believe rightly so.
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good for you, Rick. That is what I was talking about. If the dealer is willing to sell you the spa, he better be willing to service it under warrantee at no charge, unless stipulated up front.
;D
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I know for a fact that we do not advocate a "trip or call-out charge" for warranty work performed by dealers on Arctic Spas.
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I know for a fact that we do not advocate a "trip or call-out charge" for warranty work performed by dealers on Arctic Spas.
Are you saying JP that Arctic pays their dealers for warranty service calls an hour or more away from the dealers location? Or is it that you don't advocate the fact that they may have to charge a "travel fee" to recoop some of their cost for this? ???
Steve
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It sounds like JP is willing, based on the sale to forego the additional costs to travel a further distance to do service. I don't think Arctic or any other manufacturer will pay you extra to do the service over and above their warrantee coverage. If I am wrong, please let me know, I want to deal with that manufacturer ;D ;D
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Are you saying JP that Arctic pays their dealers for warranty service calls an hour or more away from the dealers location? Or is it that you don't advocate the fact that they may have to charge a "travel fee" to recoop some of their cost for this? ???
Steve
I am sorry. Perhaps I misunderstood the original comment on a warranty processing fee. I never saw anything that indicated the call was over an hour away from the dealer. My comment was based on the spa being within the immediate dealer trading area.
If the dealer has to travel a significant distance to service the spa, I suppose charging a "travel fee" is reasonable, but the dealer's salesperson should indicate that to the customer at the time of sale. No customer should be surprised by an additional charge.
James
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Thanks for clarifying it James. I agree that everyone should operate as you mentioned and zero fees should applied during service while in the warranty period within ones territory.
Adding charges after the fact is bad business and it's how reputations are developed. I couldn't imagine loosing a referral or future chemical sales over a $50 travel fee and not making it very clear at the time of the sale... ???
Steve