Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: nicker on November 26, 2004, 08:47:49 am
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I am curios as to what people use for test kits. I use a simple just dip and copare test kits, one that just tests Clorine/Alk/PH. I like the ease of use of it but would like somthing that could test more. What is the best one that is still some what easy to use? Some seem that they would be so complicating.....add water then add drops of this and that and stand on one foot and jump around whild doing circles in a clockwise manner!!! ( just kidding of course on this). But what is easy and tests allot of stuff. Such as total disovles, water hardness, cyranic acid etc.
thanks very much
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Alot of the people on this fourm use the Taylor test kit, I and others, use a test kit from Walmart. It test for the same things: ph, alk, calcium, cya, cholrine/bromine. The walmart cost me $15 as compared to the $50 for the Taylors. The tests are not that complicated and it is better to get accurate results for what condition your tub is in than not. I do use the test strips but only as a ballpark figure guide.
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The Taylor test kit will show Free Chlorine (FC) and Total Chlorine (TC) where the Walmart will only show total. If you keep up on the water care, it doesn't really matter.
It only becomes a problem when the combined chlorine (CC) is too high.
The other things that the Taylor 2005 kit will do is test the alkalinity, calcium, PH and stablizer level. I don't know if the Walmart kit will do all those tests.
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I have used Guardex test kits for a couple of decades now. I don't think they are any better or worse than the Taylor kits - but I am familiar with them and I know they work.
The one you want for a home spa is usually the blue one (OTO), the red one (DPD) would be for commercial pool/spas but it also is handy for people who have trouble reading the colors on the typical OTO kit. They also have a "Professional Kit" which adds copper and iron testing ability.
(http://www.guardex.com/image/testkits.jpg) (http://www.guardex.com/testkits.shtml)
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The Taylor test kit will show Free Chlorine (FC) and Total Chlorine (TC) where the Walmart will only show total. If you keep up on the water care, it doesn't really matter.
It only becomes a problem when the combined chlorine (CC) is too high.
The other things that the Taylor 2005 kit will do is test the alkalinity, calcium, PH and stablizer level. I don't know if the Walmart kit will do all those tests.
My Walmart kit tests Alkalinity, Calcium, Ph, and CYA, in addition to the Chlorine or Bromine.
Brewman
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Brewman;
I think Vinny's point was that the Taylor kit checks total and availible sanitizer, where your kit likely only shows availible sanitizer. It is the variance between the two tests that dictates the need for shocking and how much product is needed.
HTM
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I have a problem with Wal-Mart in general but specifically for spa and pool products.
Wal-Mart is a huge downfall of US business in general due to the fact that they seem to care more about cutting cost than bringing in quality so they go overseas for less regulated, cheaper, less quality products. With the mass overseas production that they have they have shut down most of the major US television manufactures in addition to large companies like RubberMaid and others. Most of the products they have sat on a self way to long, don't have the training support to help the customer after the sale and are typically only available seasonal.
Here's the scenario, you buy a test kit from Wal-Mart and save a couple bucks but take the business away from your dealer, then you go to your dealer and have them show you how to use the kit properly and get advice how to adjust the water. After the dealer teaches you water maintenance you think that because you saved a few bucks on the kit then you should be able to buy the chemicals from Wal-Mart cheaper also. The price difference from your dealer takes into account the extra training and support you will get from them so they don't charge a "consulting fee", now they haven't made any money and had to pay for customer support. If this continues the dealer will go away, Wal-Mart will beef up their spa division until they find it doesn't have enough profit when it's done in a "big box" fashion so they decide to no longer carry spas, chemicals and accessories. Now you have no dealer, no place to by products so owning a spa becomes a hassle.
Don’t let our American industry be crippled by supporting Wal-mart! Demand better service and support then pay what’s fair from a professional in the industry. Every time you buy from Wal-Mart you cripple American jobs and support industry growth in china.
Sorry to go off on a tangent but this is a huge sore spot for me……
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The one I have says: "Your test kit will indicate both free and combined chlorine. The free chlorine reading is indicated in the first part of the test, and total chlorine (free and combined) in the second part. Subtract the free chlorine reading from the total chlorine reading to obtain the combined chlorine reading."
The kit is made by Aqua Chem.
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Interesting, Walmart here in Jersey sells HTH kits and Kmart sells Aqua Chem. The HTH kits don't test one of the parameters (I don't remember which one).
As far as the Aqua Chem (I used this before the Taylor), the ones here are the OTO kits, which can't differentiate between FC and TC. Although I did use it for 2 years for my pool, I found the Taylor is just as easy and seems to give me readings where the Aqua Chem didn't (calcium).
Stuart, if I buy something at Walmart or Kmart, I wouldn't think of asking a dealer to show me how to use it. Also, I will say that the information given by some dealers is worthless. I went to my local pool and spa place when I was a newbie pool owner for info about the stabilizer level in my pool (it was about 100 PPM) and was told that it's not at all too high, don't worry about it.
I agree on your feelings about Walmart vs the small business but we all need to economize when applicable. I went to that same store and bought algaecide and paid $24 for a quart and went to Walmart and bought the HTH brand for $13. Now I will say that I typically buy my pool chems at Leslie's Pool Supply (their local store - not internet). My tub dealer is about 30 minutes away (a little too far for a chem run) and I don't know about her chemical prices but I was planning on supporting Doc when buying my chemicals - he may not be local but he has great prices on a lot of items and I would be supporting a business that I've "used" (his website).
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Vinny,
Wal-mart does buy at a much bigger volume than any dealer in the country and can get a better price on something’s however they cannot buy many specialty products as they are proprietary to dealers.
Algaecide is one of the chemicals that I would not buy from them only because in our area they store all of their chemicals outside in the garden area where they are susceptible to freezing and overheating. This can render many chemicals less effective or useless. I do agree with you however that we need to raise the bar for knowledge level and customer service at many dealers across the country. You reap what you sow and if you give good customer service you get good customers in return.......
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The local dealers in my area are trying to get together a buying group so we can buy direct from the manufacturer and split the shipment up amongst our stores. We have been talking about his for a long time - but every time we get to the part where we all have to write the check, somebody gets cold feet.
Any dealers outside of SoCal interested?
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Along with what Stu said, don't mass merchant chemical products have alot of fillers in them and you have to use more to get the same job done?
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Don’t let our American industry be crippled by supporting Wal-mart! Demand better service and support then pay what’s fair from a professional in the industry. Every time you buy from Wal-Mart you cripple American jobs and support industry growth in china.
Sorry to go off on a tangent but this is a huge sore spot for me……
I feel your pain stuart (as I'm sure most others do).
It's hard for folks to spend that extra 15 to 100% to support the local businessman. Unfortunately Wal-mart is only one small piece of the problem. "American industry" is thriving as a result of "big-box" stores, internet stores, offshore manufacturing and offshore labor - this has become our nation's "new capitalism" Other examples: Security... nowadays it's an American owned company with digital cameras made overseas connected to the internet and watched 24hours a day by many overseas employees. Tech industry... has seen a mass exodus of helpdesk, tech-support, quality assurance and even development to newfound offices opened in India... the list goes on...
American Industry continues to thrive at the expense of American jobs. I imagine it won't be long before it's cost effective to completely manufacture spas and chemicals overseas. Soon the American workforce will consist of only 3 job titles... executive, laborer or unemployed.
Sorry to add to the tangent but it poked a festering wound. :-/
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Today I went to my local mom and pop hardware store and found the same test kit that walmart sells for $15.00 on their shelf for $13.00. I was more than happy to purchase this kit from my local small business. Now, if I could only figure out how to actually read the results. rOFL
Elle
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I think a lot of the Walmart phenomenon has to do with today's society. We are all in a hurry and it is the easy way out. Plus, I don't mind a small premium, but I'm not going to pay double. Sorry, not going to happen, and I think you will find most feel that way (or else, Walmart would already be out of business). But I would never have the gall to ask a dealer how to use something I bought there.
I do a lot of internet shopping for the very reasons above. It is just evolution of the business model. You can step in front of the train if you want, but it will just run you over.
As far as TV's, it wasn't Walmart, as TV's have been overseas items for a long time. It was no regulation and shoddy workmanship, IMHO. Cars are another example. Detroit nearly got it's doors blown off by the Japanese until they wised up (but I think they are getting complacent again).
I think it comes down to fair competition and competent service at a fair price. Give me that, and I'll buy from you.
(Wooo baby, did this thread lose focus! Sorry)
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Stuart,
We are a non-Walmart family here for many reasons, #1 is customer service. I hate to shop, but when I do, please be able to answer some questions and save me a trip back because I may not have bought the right stuff. This morning we went out to buy a few presents and it was pretty sad to go to a strip mall in NH where there were 5 empty store fronts with a Walmart! After that we did drive the 10 miles out of our way to our spa store to pick up chemicals and it was nice to be able to ask about what filter cleaner to use and if the strips we were using were okay.
A great book to read is Nickel and Dimed in America and it is about a woman trying to live on minimum wage jobs, the part where she works at Walmart is a hoot, b/c she keeps talking to other employees about UNIONS! Which is not allowed, ;)
But back to the topic, we use a 4 way test strip from bioguard which tests for total bromine ( which we don't need), free chlorine, ph and total alkalinity. The spa has been great and we test once a week, and that is working fine for us.
Jan
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I read an article about how shopping trends have changed in the past few years. The author was convinced that more and more of us do our research online, choose the item we think will best serve our need, and then go to a brick and mortar store to purchase it, after making sure that it is the same IRL as we expected. Often, we take a printout of the web site or info page with us, with the price on it of course, to see if the megastore in our town will match the price of the online superstore.
This is exactly what I do for most things, and I was amazed at how he nailed it. So - if the best price for something I have searched out happens to be at Best Buy, but that's too far to drive, I just go to Circuit City and ask the manager to price match. They usually do. I haven't been to WalMart in years. Note: I didn't say I look for the lowest price first. I look for the particular item that will meet my needs best. Then once I have chosen which thingamabob I'm going to shop for, I go in search of the best price for that particular brand and model.
But since I happen to sell something that can't be price shopped the way a digital camera or cellular phone can be, I decided that my customers were going to get exceptional service - from the moment they walk into the door to the warranty service they hopefully won't need.
From that point on, I told all my sales staff about the article, and encouraged them to be sure that our customers feel that they are in the right place, looking at the right thing at the right time. I know they would love it if there was another HotSpring dealer a block over so they could beat my kids' college money out of me, but there's not. So I try to make it up to them by offering what I hope will be exceptional service. And we have a lot of fun at it too.... ;)
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I got the test kit from Walmart due to price, I'll admit it. I do not though get my chems from there. I cannot get them from my dealer as they are over an hour away. I do try to use Docs site for my chems but on the occasion that I need something fast I do go to a local spa dealer in my town (they sell another brand of tub). We due try to support the local mom and pop stores instead of the walmarts, but on some paychecks it is alittle hard.
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I got the test kit from Walmart due to price, I'll admit it. I do not though get my chems from there. I cannot get them from my dealer as they are over an hour away. I do try to use Docs site for my chems ...
That's very important - it allows him to have more cash with which to buy us all dinner in Vegas this week.
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First, I will say that I believe that ALL the professionals here are a cut above most dealers that I went to to shop for my tub. I wish I was able to support your businesses.
What Stuart and Chas said is correct, give excellent customer service and correct advise and you'll have happy customers and repeat customers.
In my example of the algaecide, 60% polyquat is 60% polyquat, the only difference is the dealer sold Bioguard and Walmart sold HTH - it probably is true that due to Walmart's storing of the product the HTH was less effective than the Bioguard. But all things being equal they will work the same. But if all things are equal why pay $24 vs $13. If it was $18, I might not have been as upset.
What Chas said about getting together with other retailers was something I was going to mention - retailers are doing that here.
Business models have changed and the 1970's mall has been replaced by the 1990's strip mall and the Walmart's and big box store. Sometimes you get what you pay for and sometimes you get bargains. When I build my deck in the spring, I am going to a lumber yard to get the best quality wood and the best advice I can get - Home Depot and Lowes just won't cut it - I will pay a premium for the service and quality that I want.
But maybe retailers can find alternate sources for their products to help them compete price wise. You may sell a certain brand of tub - but what about the chems, Bioguard (my example) may be a premium product but is it that much better than all the other products - probably not. Doc sells a dichlor on his website that has 62% available dichlor - haven't found another dichlor (internet shopping) that matches it. I've seen 52%, 55% and 56%, if the price is the same (actually Doc's is better) - why not purchase it.
I know this post is way off track so to bring it back...
... it sounds like it all depends on what you want in a test kit; Taylor uses the DPD test method and can test for FC and TC, the OTO test kits test for TC and if the water isn't too full of chloramines then it will work fine and some people like the test strips and find that their accurate enough.
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Vin,
That was a great post, and loved how you got us back on topic at the end. I agreed with the whole thing, except one item: Don't use WOOD man!! Are you nuts? The stuff is so 'last year!!' Go with anything but wood!!
;)
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Chas,
The decking is going to be composite either Timbertech or Trex (depends on the what the wife likes!) - I was referring to the structure - I've seen and gone through tons of the HD wood.
Vinny
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PHEW!!
Ok then.
Wow,
that was close.
;)
Go here for a cool online deck design tool:
DIY (http://www.hotspring.com/Spa_Notes_Hot_Tub/backyard_spa_deck_designer.html)