Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: shoemaker on October 22, 2004, 07:30:28 am

Title: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: shoemaker on October 22, 2004, 07:30:28 am: Well, our Sundance Cameo is being delivered today. We can't wait. I'll post some pix after it's here and once the water is in it next week sometime.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: ttodd1 on October 22, 2004, 08:53:15 am: Congrats. It's nice to see a fellow Cameo owner. What color did you get it in?
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: windsurfdog on October 22, 2004, 08:57:51 am: Congrats! Great tub, too. May the goddess of Spatopia bless you with crystal water..........
8)
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: shoemaker on October 22, 2004, 09:18:56 am: Quote
Congrats. It's nice to see a fellow Cameo owner. What color did you get it in?

We got the Onyx shell with the Grey Resin cabinet. It was a very nice combo.
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: shoemaker on October 22, 2004, 09:19:42 am: Quote
Congrats! Great tub, too. May the goddess of Spatopia bless you with crystal water..........
8)

Thanks ! I'm not sure who she is, but I sure hope she shows up !

LOL
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: Brewman on October 22, 2004, 01:59:49 pm: Quote

Thanks ! I'm not sure who she is, but I sure hope she shows up !

LOL

Goddess of Spatopia? Easy. That would be Lori! ;)
Brewman
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: Chas on October 22, 2004, 02:17:15 pm: Quote
Goddess of Spatopia? Easy. That would be Lori! ;)
Brewman

Yes - Phew! For a second I was thinking it was Sandy. ::)
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: windsurfdog on October 22, 2004, 02:20:39 pm: Quote
Thanks ! I'm not sure who she is, but I sure hope she shows up ! LOL

I think she's Lady Godiva's sister--she doesn't make any foam! ;)
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: shoemaker on October 29, 2004, 01:41:39 pm: Well, no Cameo for me.............

Without going into details, we had a very bad experience at the time of delivery and we refused to take the tub. >:(

We are now looking at either Hot Springs or Dimension One tubs.

:'( :-/ :'(
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: stuart on October 29, 2004, 01:44:38 pm: Quote
Well, no Cameo for me.............

Without going into details, we had a very bad experience at the time of delivery and we refused to take the tub. >:(

We are now looking at either Hot Springs or Dimension One tubs.

:'( :-/ :'(

Sorry to hear that Shoe, I know you were very excited. If I can help in the shopping again let me know.
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: shoemaker on October 29, 2004, 01:49:39 pm: Quote
Sorry to hear that Shoe, I know you were very excited. If I can help in the shopping again let me know.

Thanks Stuart.
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: salesdvl on October 29, 2004, 02:39:43 pm: GET OUTTA HERE. Thats so dissapointing. sorry.

Since you back in the hunt, I would also say look at the Artesian Onyx model. It is the exact layout as the Cameo and has 3 jet pumps instead of 2 and should be the same price. ( yet another shameless plug sorry )

Go gettum Tiger.
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: windsurfdog on October 29, 2004, 02:47:50 pm: MAJOR BUMMER!! :'( :'(

Just let me know who your dealer was and I'll ask the goddess to smite them with spas falling from forklifts and customers impossible to please........

Seriously, I hate it for you.....please feel free to come over any time for a soak and a martini......
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: salesdvl on October 29, 2004, 02:53:19 pm: Yea, but you have a MasterSpa. Why would he want to sit in that? Ohhhhhhhhhhhh... a low undercut. Sorry, you set me up and would have been dissappointed if I passed it up. ;)
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: windsurfdog on October 29, 2004, 02:56:46 pm: Quote
Yea, but you have a MasterSpa. Why would he want to sit in that? Ohhhhhhhhhhhh... a low undercut. Sorry, you set me up and would have been dissappointed if I passed it up. ;)

Yeah....but the martinis make up for it.... ;)
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: stuart on October 29, 2004, 02:56:54 pm: Quote
Yea, but you have a MasterSpa. Why would he want to sit in that? Ohhhhhhhhhhhh... a low undercut. Sorry, you set me up and would have been dissappointed if I passed it up. ;)

Hence the martini...... 8) salesdvl, it was either you or I but your right, couldn't just let it set there...
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: salesdvl on October 29, 2004, 02:57:59 pm: shaken....not stirred. "Dog, Windsurf Dog"
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: windsurfdog on October 29, 2004, 03:06:13 pm: Quote
Hence the martini...... 8) salesdvl, it was either you or I but your right, couldn't just let it set there...

Hell....after 2 or 3 martinis even a Thermospa starts lookin' good......

And salesdvl said:
Quote
shaken....not stirred "Dog, Windsurf Dog"

No, actually we don't shake or stir.....we massage the martini so as not to brrrrruise the gin.....And that would be Mr. Dog, thank you.......
8)
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: salesdvl on October 29, 2004, 03:22:23 pm: Thank you sir may I have another
Thank you sir may I have another...
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: windsurfdog on October 29, 2004, 03:54:27 pm: Quote
Thank you sir may I have another
Thank you sir may I have another...

ROFLMAO.....I'm laughing so hard, I'm about to gag....... ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: shoemaker on October 29, 2004, 04:45:52 pm: Quote
GET OUTTA HERE. Thats so dissapointing. sorry.

Since you back in the hunt, I would also say look at the Artesian Onyx model. It is the exact layout as the Cameo and has 3 jet pumps instead of 2 and should be the same price. ( yet another shameless plug sorry )

Go gettum Tiger.

Yeah, I saw that one on line and have a dealer sending me information. The only problem is that the dealer is about 2 hours away and I am leary (sp) of service fees and delays because of the distance. They already told me that they would have to charge me for delivery because we were so far away.

:(

(Nice try on the plug though !) ;D
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: Tubber on October 29, 2004, 06:08:52 pm: Quote
Well, no Cameo for me.............

Without going into details, we had a very bad experience at the time of delivery and we refused to take the tub. >:(

We are now looking at either Hot Springs or Dimension One tubs.

:'( :-/ :'(

I'll just fill in some brief details here. Since I am the one who sold the spa, and was present when the delivery was refused.

The spa bought was a floor model out of my showroom. The price was discounted as it was a floor model. Shoemaker never did see the actual spa. He went on my word that the spa was fine. The spa was fine when it was in my showroom. I don't know what happened but the cabinet got beat up along the way.

The first solution to the problem offered onsite at the time was to replace the cabinet with all new panels. Not good enough.

A few phone calls by myself and Shoemakers getting a brand new spa ordered in the exact same colors for the same FLOOR MODEL price.

This as well is not good enough. The bottom line is, as a consumer, I would have rejected the spa as well. However, as a retailer, my job is to satisfy the customer and make him whole. The offer that was proposed would have certainly done that. He would have received a brand new spa, ordered to his liking, for the same price of a floor model. A floor model that I went out of my way to make available to him. So why wouldn't he want to go into the details if his experience was VERY bad.

As a result, the ONLY solution that would satisfy Shoemaker was to include with his BRAND NEW spa, a $1000 stereo. You have to understand, this was an offer that was impossible for me to make. I fail to see how we made this a very bad experience. I can understand being disappointed that the first spa was not in good condition. However, we tried to correct the situation within 2 hours.

I have no problem telling you my name is Chris and I am a sales supervisor for American Leisure.
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: salesdvl on October 29, 2004, 06:16:56 pm: Chris, Very nice that you stepped out to explain your side.
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: shoemaker on October 30, 2004, 07:53:14 am: This post is too big for one posting so I am breaking it up into several.

Well Chris, I had no plans on going into the details and I had no plans to disgrace you, your company, or your tubs. But for some reason you felt it necessary to make me, the CUSTOMER, out to be the bad guy. This is just not true. Let me explain.

1. When we first looked at your tubs we were told that we could not have the tub that was on the floor in West Springfield because your company "doesn't" sell floor models. (Deception #1 as you sent me a floor model.)

2. We were also told that you do not display at the Big E because your showroom is so close to it that people stop in as they go by. (Deception #2 as you told me later that you do have a booth at the Big E)

3. A few days later we get a call from your sales person saying she has a tub that is not exactly what we want but is available for immedeate delivery. (Get the sale I guess)

4. I start talking to you in PM's here on this forum (which I have saved all of), and you tell me that you do sell floor models at a $200 discount but you don't have what I am looking for. (Deception # 3 as you did have my tub on your floor in Avon)

5. A few day later you tell me that you have a tub in Avon that is exactly what I want and that you talked to the VP and he was willing to sell it to me as a floor model with the discount. (Deception # 4 as you knew you had this tub, and you knew it was a floor model. But telling me what I wanted to hear would make me feel like you were doing me some great favor)

SIDE NOTE: Do all salespeople in the Hot Tub business play the "let me talk to the VP" game? Like car dealers do?
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: shoemaker on October 30, 2004, 07:53:48 am: 6. We agree to purchase this tub without actually seeing it. We believed it was an unused "display" model and in good condition - based on trusting you. (Deception # 5 as I believe you knew what condition the tub was in and that it had been used for wet testing etc..)

7. We close the deal and wait for the tub. This went smoothly.

8. The morning of the delivery you send me a PM saying that you would like to watch the delivery because you "have never seen an actual delivery". I thought this was a bit odd, but since you live in the next town I agreed to this and gave you my address. (Deception # 6 as I believe you knew I wasn't going to be happy with what I was about to recieve and you could smooth things over if you were there.)

SIDE NOTE: How many of you other dealers go out to watch deliveries? Just curious.
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: shoemaker on October 30, 2004, 07:54:13 am: 9. You show up and while we are talking you tell me that you would never buy a tub that already had water in it and was used for wet testing. (Deception # 7 as I was about to receive just such a tub)

10. The tub arrives on a flatbed truck with no protection from damage to the cabinet. It is completely exposed except for some saran wrap that someone put around the shell top. The cover is in two boxes that have hastily been taped together and open on both ends. I believe that this was the cover that was on the tub in the showroom and not a new one. The cabinet on the tub was broken (bottom of panel was split to the point where a piece was about to just fall off.), there was a rather large black greese stain on the same panel. One of the front door panels was warped and bowed out about 1/2 an inch in the middle, and there were several nicks, dings, scratches, and "indents" in the plastic cabinet. Also there was this "white" residue that was on the cabinet which seemed to gather in corners and along some of the seems. It looked to me like it was a chemical residue. Possibly from being in the showroom with water in it that spilled over when people got in it to wet test maybe? The delivery person said it was "Packing Powder" !

SIDE NOTE: How many of you other dealers pack you tubs in powder?

I didn't even get to look at the inside of the tub. (Deception # 8 ......Just plain old wrong)

11. The first thing out of your mouth when you knew I was upset was "what do I have to throw at you to make this right"? Those were your exact words. Like I should just accept the tub and you would give me some "freebie" to make it all better. "What do I have to "throw" at you to make this right"? I almost couldn't believe you said it. I said "nothing" and that I didn't want that tub. I asked if you would accept it the way it was and you said no. (Deception # 9 as I believe you figured you could slip one by us and we would just take the "freebie" and be done with it)
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: shoemaker on October 30, 2004, 07:55:11 am: 12. While Chris is looking at the other side of the tub the driver tells me that the paperwork he has says that the tub was sold "AS IS". Of course this really pisses me off because I never saw the tub until the day it was delivered. (Deception # 10 - "AS IS" - what's up with that?)

13. You go back to West Springfield while I listen to my wife tell me how stupid we were to believe the salesman and how the people I have been talking to here are mostly dealers and they will telll you anything to make a sale.

14. You call back with the offer to give us the tub in West Springfield or get me a new tub for the same price. So we figure that because of the aggravation we just went through, the fact that we would have to wait another 3-4 weeks for a new one, the fact that you are willing to "throw" something at us, and the fact that you said you wanted to "make things right" and "satisfy our customers", that we would push the deal and ask for the stereo. This was something that you yourself said might be workable but that we might not get the entire accessories package. Again those were your exact words.
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: shoemaker on October 30, 2004, 07:55:40 am: 15. You called back and said we could have a new tub with the accessories for the same price. When I asked about the sound syatem, you said that there was "no way" they were going to add the stereo at that price. (Deception # 11? Maybe because I don't believe that you even asked anyone about the stereo. Especially since I recieved a letter from your VP saying that he was sorry that we wouldn't except your offer to repair the tub or replace it with a new one. No mention of not being able to add the stereo at the same price.)

16. We cancelled the sale and asked for our money back.

So that is my side of the story. I really didn't think you would want everyone else here knowing the details but I guess I was wrong.

My question to the other dealers and to the people that are here looking for information from the dealers: Was I wrong to say we had a "VERY BAD" experience at the time of delivery? I think not.

And on a personal note, I would like to remind everyone that WE are the CUSTOMER. We are the people that buy your products and keep your businness going. I think sometime sales people (and I am a salesman too but not selling hot tubs) get caught up in the numbers game. How many can we sell this month or quarter. What will my commission be like if I can sell one more or 2 more of whatever we are selling. And we lose sight of the customer at the other end of the sale who only wanted to be treated fairly and get a good product at a fair price.

Sorry for being so long winded, but I had to give my side of the story. We are not bad people and are not unwilling to except a mistake. But in this case there were just too many bad things to overlook.

Frank.
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: windsurfdog on October 30, 2004, 08:53:12 am: WHOOOAAAA.......The goddess is lifting her curse......too much controversy......the goddess doesn't involve herself in controversy......
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: shoemaker on October 30, 2004, 08:58:59 am: After re-reading my posts, I made a slight mistake. It has to do with the terms "Floor Model" and "Display" model.

Display is new never filled with water and wet tested.

Floor Model is used for wet testing.

We were told that they don't sell Display models, and Chris got the OK from the VP to sell us his Display model at the Floor Model discount.

I stand corrected.

Frank.
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: Chas on October 30, 2004, 11:16:48 am: Wow.
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: salesdvl on October 30, 2004, 11:28:50 am: This is better than an old Dynasty rerun.

Shoe, as a dealer I can tell you that no we do not all do the things that happened to you.

The Sundance dealer in my area is known to do some shady things. ( Not a slam on every SD dealer )
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: Warkovision on October 30, 2004, 06:36:12 pm: Man, that's a bummer. Sorry. :(
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: stuart on October 30, 2004, 07:05:38 pm: Here's an idea, if the situation has deteriorated to the point where one side or the other has no desire to work with the other then so be it but, how about laying this out to the general membership with both sides presenting there view and thoughts and see what everyone thinks.

This could be more damaging to the dealer then the consumer so I understand it they don't wish to do it but I believe that we have a good enough cross section of both dealers and consumers here to at least suggest a good solution.

Then again, it may be better to just leave well enough alone and let it be written off as a bad situation.......

Otherwise I could think of nothing to say other then what Chas has already said.... Wow...
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: Lori on October 31, 2004, 11:04:50 am: Quote

Goddess of Spatopia? Easy. That would be Lori! ;)
Brewman

:-*

Thanks Brewman! I was on vacation last week and away from my computer! Just got back today!

Thanks!
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: NightOne on October 31, 2004, 01:53:48 pm: Here's my 2 cents...

Bottom Line: I think shoe is entitled to a brand new tub at the quoted price as well as some additional compensation for his time and aggravation in the form of an additional discount on the tub price. However, I feel that the $1000 stereo is a too much. More along the lines of $500.

Couple of notes:

shoe: some of your deceptions are your perception of what someone was thinking - unless you are a certified mind reader, you can't state those as facts of deception but rather perceived deceptions

tubber: this has the potential to cost you some serious business - If losing a few bucks on one spa keeps you in the running for 50 more ... well you know - also understand your offer of a brand new tub was reasonable, but you have to factor in the customer is going to have to wait another 3-4 weeks - I'm sure their expectations were high and you guys have totally deflated them

again...just my 2 cents
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: shoemaker on October 31, 2004, 06:00:34 pm: This is no longer an issue as we bought a Hot Springs Envoy yesterday.

Everyone can drop it now.

8)
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: Chas on October 31, 2004, 07:09:06 pm: Quote
This is no longer an issue as we bought a Hot Springs Envoy yesterday.

Everyone can drop it now.

8)

Congratulations!!! I have dropped an Envoy, and it didn't hurt anything but my pride - however I still don't recommend doing so.

Enjoy your Envoy!!!

Let us know how the delivery goes - in fact, if you PM the dealer's name, or just tell me what city your are in I'll be sure to put a bug in his ear about taking good care of you!!!
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: shoemaker on October 31, 2004, 07:15:35 pm: Quote
Congratulations!!! I have dropped an Envoy, and it didn't hurt anything but my pride - however I still don't recommend doing so.

Enjoy your Envoy!!!

Let us know how the delivery goes - in fact, if you PM the dealer's name, or just tell me what city your are in I'll be sure to put a bug in his ear about taking good care of you!!!

PM sent your way !
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: stuart on October 31, 2004, 11:20:16 pm: Good job shoe, thats a great spa! Can't wait for the feedback once you've sat in it!
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: windsurfdog on November 01, 2004, 09:56:50 am: YYEEEAAAAAAA! Whew, to quote The Dead, "...what a long, hard road it's been..."
The goddess extends her original blessings to your new Envoy..... 8)
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: Perk1 on November 01, 2004, 10:04:53 am: Quote
YYEEEAAAAAAA! Whew, to quote The Dead, "...what a long, hard road it's been..."
The goddess extends her original blessings to your new Envoy..... 8)

Ummmm...WSD...I hate to do this to you buddy but I think you were trying to use this quote....'What a long strange trip its been'....you were close though...8)
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: Warkovision on November 01, 2004, 10:13:32 am: I think you'll be really happy with your Envoy. Though we finally ended up with a Vista, the Envoy wet test sold us on HotSprings. Conrats, enjoy!
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: shoemaker on November 01, 2004, 10:21:57 am: Quote
I think you'll be really happy with your Envoy. Though we finally ended up with a Vista, the Envoy wet test sold us on HotSprings. Conrats, enjoy!

Thanks, we wet tested 4 of their tubs and we liked this one the best. It is supposed to be delivered this week !!

;D :D ;D
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: windsurfdog on November 01, 2004, 03:35:45 pm: Quote

Ummmm...WSD...I hate to do this to you buddy but I think you were trying to use this quote....'What a long strange trip its been'....you were close though...8)

LOL.......you know, memory is the first thing to go......and I can't remember what the second thing is......
8)
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: Chas on November 01, 2004, 05:37:52 pm: Quote
LOL.......you know, memory is the first thing to go......and I can't remember what the second thing is......
8)

You know, there are three things I can never remember:
...

...

...

Hmm.

I guess that would be four then.
::)
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: shoemaker on November 02, 2004, 09:10:16 am: Hey Chas did you get my PM?

Or did you forget that you had that option?

LOL ;D
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: tonyp on November 02, 2004, 09:33:02 am: You know, of course, that when you get old the memory is the 3rd thing to go!
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: shoemaker on November 02, 2004, 12:47:47 pm: Quote
You know, of course, that when you get old the memory is the 3rd thing to go!

You're right. But to tell you the truth, I can't remember what the first 2 things are !

;D
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: Chas on November 02, 2004, 01:58:46 pm: Quote
Hey Chas did you get my PM?

Or did you forget that you had that option?

LOL ;D
Yup, had a nice chat with Jerry this morning. Seems like a nice guy.
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: shoemaker on November 02, 2004, 02:30:59 pm: Quote
Yup, had a nice chat with Jerry this morning. Seems like a nice guy.

Thanks for that ! ;)
Title: Re: Cameo being delivered today !
Post by: Chas on November 02, 2004, 06:15:57 pm: No charge. ;D ;D ;D