Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Kelley on September 15, 2004, 08:08:39 pm
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We are in the market for a spa and are slightly overwhelmed. I am looking for opinions on wood vs metal frames. My husband is convinced that a metal frame is best....This would limit our options so I want to be sure he is right LOL
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I dont think it really matters that much. You will likely move to a new home/sell/upgrade your spa before a wood frame begins to rot. You may be the type to keep appliances/cars/electronics for 20+ years, if you are go metal.
Focus more on the comfort, look, warranty and dealer.
Lastly: DONT FORGET TO WET TEST
HotTubMan
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If this were a vehicle I'd insist on the metal frame. Its a spa and either is fine!!!!!
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All else being equal, it makes sense to go for a metal frame, and if possible surround. But as HotTubMan say’s the most important thing is to wet test and find a good dealer.
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Wood inside a cabinet protected from most of the elements should last ummm.... 50 years? Forget about it. Yeah sure a metal frame is prolly the future of reputable manufacturerers once the weight is under control but unless you are adament about keeping your spa more than 30 years I wouldn't be the least bit concerned. Listen to the good people above (in this thread that is...).
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It makes sense to think that a metal frame would be sturdier than a wooden frame. There are three questions that you have to ask to see if this is truly the case:
(I'm not trying to say one is better than the other, but I *am* trying to say the choice is not as obvious as one might think)
1) Is a metal frame always more secure than a wooden frame?
The answer to that is "sometimes". Many reputable hot tub manufacturers properly coat their metal frames, use the appropriate metals, and provide enough support. Don't rely on a sales pitch for this. Double check on these forums and others. Some do not construct their metal frames with any quality and, from what I read, poorly designed/made frames can begin to rust. A 1/4" rusted metal frame will break alot quicker than a 2x4 piece of pressure treated wood.
Watch the plastic pans on the bottom of metal frames. Some cheap manufacturers rely on these to protect the metal from the weather/rust. The pointy ends of the metal frames on poorly made tubs often crack through the plastic base. Heck my friend with a Sundance cameo has his plastic base pan severely damaged accidentally by the installers when it was installed.
There were some threads a while back on types of steel, coatings to prevent rust, and the amount of framing required. I'd do a search on this and see what you dig up.
2) The other question is what is sufficient and what is overkill?
Pressure treated wood rated for ground contact will last for decades without rotting, while in the ground, exposed to the elements. As such, pressure treated wood sitting on a deck or on a conrete slab should last as long if not longer. And pressure treated wood in a cabinet should last much longer. I seem to remember some dealers (chas?) talking of pickup up hot tubs with unprotected pressure-treated wood bases that have sat for 15 years and seeing *zero* decay or structural problems in the wooden frames. Heck, some people think the plastic pans on the bottom of tubs are just a gimmick and are unnecessary.
Chances are the studs in your house's exterior walls are made of non-pressure treated wood and yet your house will stand on its own for decades. Yes, the inside of a hot tub gets more environmental exposure, but, yes, the wood inside of a spa cabinet should be pressure treated.
I just dropped 15 6x6 pressure treated pieces of wood in the ground as I build my deck. Does that mean I have to dig them up and put steel I-bars in their place? :o
3) Does the natural "flex" of wood actually help things?
I honestly do not know. Seems to me that a completely rigid framework that has little flex would transfer stress (such as walking on, leaning against, slipping and falling on) to the cabinet and shell. A 2x4 has some flex to it, though, which may be a good thing. Of course too much flex is a bad thing. But a pressur etreated 2x4 properly made doesn't have too much flex. If I walk up to those 6x6's in the ground and kick it, it doesn't move and I hurt my foot, but, indeed, the wood has some flex to it.
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I moved into my home 9 years ago and it had a wood frame Cal Spa. It was only 2 years old. The spa served me well for 8 years then developed a leak that I neglected to fix for too long and before I knew it my whole wooden structure rotted away before my eyes. When I bought my new Coleman the dealer literally had to take a big circle saw and cut the old spa into pieces to haul it away as we could not move it without it breaking apart.
Now I have what is called a Galvalume frame by Coleman and it was one of the features I wanted in my new spa. Only time will tell whether this frame will hold out longer than traditional spas but I sure feel better about it. It is also a much lighter spa than the wood ones, making it easier to move if need be one day.
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Metal Frame = gimmick. You will find it hard to weed through the gimmicks in the spa industry. Some features are gimmicks some are worth while features.
Wood is neither better or worse than metal in this situation.
Do NOT let the metal vs. wood framing issue be the deciding factor in your purchase. There are so many more important things to focus on, like 24 hour circ pumps, make sure you have one.
Go with a good brand name, wet test, HP isn't important - powerful jets are, wet test, more jets isn't always better, LED lights get old quickly, TV's in spas? leave that for MTV's Cribs (had one broke in a month and was stupid anyway), wet test, and don't forget to wet test.
Most of the people on this board have only owned one tub so take their heavily biased opinions with a grain of salt.
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Metal Frame = gimmick. You will find it hard to weed through the gimmicks in the spa industry. Some features are gimmicks some are worth while features.
Wood is neither better or worse than metal in this situation.
Do NOT let the metal vs. wood framing issue be the deciding factor in your purchase. There are so many more important things to focus on, like 24 hour circ pumps, make sure you have one.
Go with a good brand name, wet test, HP isn't important - powerful jets are, wet test, more jets isn't always better, LED lights get old quickly, TV's in spas? leave that for MTV's Cribs (had one broke in a month and was stupid anyway), wet test, and don't forget to wet test.
Most of the people on this board have only owned one tub so take their heavily biased opinions with a grain of salt.
D1,
My first inclination was to "blast" your statement on metal frames but decided that I agreed with half of your post and disagreed with half.
Metal frames are not a "gimmick" rather just another way of doing it!
If anyone does wood frames correct it is D1. Their "truss frame" type construction is pretty impressive and incredibly strong but, their are many companies that have gotten pretty cheap on their frames. Before MAXX bought Coleman I used to laugh at their brochure that read "High quality structural 2x2 pine frame"! tell me, what is "structural" about 2x2 pine(Maybe they meant the metal staples)? Regardless the metal frame a definite plus in this case.
From what I know D1 looked at metal frames and didn’t go with them mostly because of the cost involved in changing over.
We have major manufactures that advertise their frame to be 2x4 construction yet when you look in the spa the only 2x4's are in each corner and stapled to 1x4's and 2x2's. I've been in the industry a long time and have probably 20-30 trade in used spas out back of my store, you should see the frames coming apart on many of those!
Consequentially there are dealers doing metal frames that are substandard. They use automotive grade or very cheaply coated thin metal. The frames I’ve seen on MAXX products are pretty substantial, heavier metal and some of the best galvanizing process available, it’s called galvalume.
Finally, I don’t think there is a spa made with a steel frame that comes anywhere near the quality or engineering of a D1 however, that isn’t due to whether or not they have a metal frame!
I also don't think that the philosophical difference between having a circulation pump or not having a circulation pump is worth telling someone that it is a "must" when buying. Circ pumps could be labeled as a "gimmick" by many as well. Keep in mind that I have already stated and truly believe that D1 is by far one of the top brands made (I'm considering a Californian for myself) but it's because of the engineering as whole not for one item over another.
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Definition:
Gimmick: Something that I don't have that others do.
Brewman
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Definition:
Gimmick: Something that I don't have that others do.
Brewman
Thanks buddy! I needed the laugh this A.M.! ;D
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Let's make this simple. Yes metal will last longer, but any house that is more 25-30 years old has no pressure treated wood in the frame and newer houses will only have it where the frame is connected to foundation.
And there are millions of houses out there that are not failing down or apart.
If a spa manufacturer uses wood but it is not exposed to the elements there is no need to treat the wood and it will last the life of the spa and then some.
Gary
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Metal frames are not a "gimmick" rather just another way of doing it!
Metal frames ARE a gimmick IF they use them and market their product as superior because of the material. If they simply use them that's fine, but don't try to tell the customers that the product is superior because of that use. THAT is where the gimmick comes in, not in the use but in the story they spin with it.
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Metal Frame = gimmick. You will find it hard to weed through the gimmicks in the spa industry. Some features are gimmicks some are worth while features.
Wood is neither better or worse than metal in this situation.
Do NOT let the metal vs. wood framing issue be the deciding factor in your purchase. There are so many more important things to focus on, like 24 hour circ pumps, make sure you have one.
Go with a good brand name, wet test, HP isn't important - powerful jets are, wet test, more jets isn't always better, LED lights get old quickly, TV's in spas? leave that for MTV's Cribs (had one broke in a month and was stupid anyway), wet test, and don't forget to wet test.
Most of the people on this board have only owned one tub so take their heavily biased opinions with a grain of salt.
D1,
Metal frames are the technolgy of the future. When Maax switched over from wood to galvalume it made our spa's 40% lighter and 250% stronger. We now offer a lifetime warranty on our frame. With our solid ABS pan bottom and sealed cabinet not only do we seal the cold air out and recapture the equipment heat, our spa's are very quiet and rodent proof.
As far as the 24 hr. circ pump, I help more people with other brands of spas with circ pumps that have water chemistry problems than our Coleman customers so don't assume all circ systems are created equal. We have dealers up here that push the 24hour circ pumps and don't add the ozone system. What did you gain if 24 hours of ozone was the selling point.
Spahappy
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Boy that sounds familiar. You full foamers make a living out of saying full foam is a better way to go than thermo(pain).
Guess thermopane is a gimmick too.
New definition of gimmick:
Any implementation used on a spa that the "full foam junta" does not like because they don't use it.
I'm not a rocket scientist or a metalurgist but if you were to poll people walking down the street, not knowing a thing about spas, and ask them if they had a choice of a metal or wood frame I think 99% of those polled would choose metal. The reason Watkins, et al, do not use metal yet is because production costs would go up and they know they already overcharge the public for the product they make. Thus, they would have to raise the price even more, thus hurting their precious sales.
Just get over it. Thermopane and metal frames are here and aren't going away anytime soon. At least until someone invents the thermo-gravitational force field that will make up the spa of the future. Just think of it, no frame, no shell, no foam, just a blob of water suspended in air to soak in. Privacy issues would have to be addressed of course.
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I object to the house analogy. Yes there are houses still standing that do not have metal or pressure treated frames. Are these houses holding hundred of gallons of water? Do these houses have leaks that expose the framing to the moisture? No that goes down to the concrete foundation.
Dont get me wrong, I was the first in the thread to say it isn't that big a deal. To compare a tub to a house is a weak comparison. Why dont we compare the tubs to cars? They use metal frames that dont last nearly as long as tub frames or house frames. Does that mean that wood is in fact superior or does it mean that the cars metal frame is exposed to different environmental factors?
HTMan
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Boy that sounds familiar. You full foamers make a living out of saying full foam is a better way to go than thermo(pain).
Guess thermopane is a gimmick too.
New definition of gimmick:
Any implementation used on a spa that the "full foam junta" does not like because they don't use it.
I'm not a rocket scientist or a metalurgist but if you were to poll people walking down the street, not knowing a thing about spas, and ask them if they had a choice of a metal or wood frame I think 99% of those polled would choose metal. The reason Watkins, et al, do not use metal yet is because production costs would go up and they know they already overcharge the public for the product they make. Thus, they would have to raise the price even more, thus hurting their precious sales.
Just get over it. Thermopane and metal frames are here and aren't going away anytime soon. At least until someone invents the thermo-gravitational force field that will make up the spa of the future. Just think of it, no frame, no shell, no foam, just a blob of water suspended in air to soak in. Privacy issues would have to be addressed of course.
This has to be two of the most sensible and unbiased postings I have read for months :-)
Well said Rick & Spahappy
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This has to be two of the most sensible and unbiased postings I have read for months :-)
Well said Rick & Spahappy
Thanks, it's good to be back!!
Spahappy
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Hi All,
I'm the husband that Kelley spoke of in the original post.
My concern over wood frames comes from crawling under my house and replacing 2x6 joists under the bathroom. Obviously the shower, sink and tub are not supposed to leak, but they did - and will eventually leak.
I'm nervous in this situation; several hundred gallons of water running through hoses secured with crappy clamps (look at the hose clamps on your car's radiator hoses for an example of a real hose clamp), and the possibility of water flowing out of the tub when it is accidentally overfilled, all of this happening within inches of wood, ready to absorb water into that kiln dried goodness....
Pressure treated wood works, metal frames are just a long term insurance policy. Not stronger, nor will they last longer than the expected life span of a spa. But if an accident happens I know that steel can handle a single, unseen, water exposure better than wood.
I don't own a spa. The frame of the spa I buy might actually be made of wood - but I'll regularly check underneath for any moisture.
The frame is not a deal breaker but it might swing me one way or the other.
Great advice here - although I can smell the salesmen a mile away ;)
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This has to be two of the most sensible and unbiased postings I have read for months :-)
Well said Rick & Spahappy
:o
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Boy that sounds familiar. You full foamers make a living out of saying full foam is a better way to go than thermo(pain).
Guess thermopane is a gimmick too.
New definition of gimmick:
Any implementation used on a spa that the "full foam junta" does not like because they don't use it.
Rick, did a full foam hot tub harrass you and take your lunch money when you were in high school? You've got some serious full foam bigotry in you. :'(
As for the wood versus metal I wouldn't base my argument on "any Joe Schmoe" walking on the street to have any kind of informed opinion unless they have researched it. Presumably, people on these boards *have* researched it. Some here, obviously, haven't.
Pressure treated wood will stand up as well if not better than metal. Why do I say better? To keep costs and weight down some use inferior metal with inferior coatings to keep cost and weight down. When done that way it *is* a gimmik. Improper use of wood rots and threatens structural integrity. Improper use of metal rusts and threatens structural integrity.
And yes, untreated wood under a spa skirt can be a problem. Pressure treated will not be. A quality manufacturer will ensure that it is not an issue, either from use of wood or from use of metal.
But when someone is in the market for a tub and they just post generic questions, you don't know if they are looking at a reputable brand or not and so you do have to address the wool that can be pulled over peoples eyes.
-Ed
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I object to the house analogy. Yes there are houses still standing that do not have metal or pressure treated frames. Are these houses holding hundred of gallons of water? Do these houses have leaks that expose the framing to the moisture? No that goes down to the concrete foundation.
The wood or metal in a hot tub is not exposed to water unless there is a leak in the hot tub just like the wood in your house is not exposed to water unless there is a leak in your tub, pipes in the walls burst, appliances leak, toilets overflow and flood, you live in Florida or New Orleans right now, etc..
The house analogy wasn't to try and justify use of non-pressure treated wood in a hot tub. Your hot tub, most likely is outside and a 1/2" piece of plastic skirting doesn't change that. It will most likely, over the course of its life, experience the outside environment.
A better analogy might be a deck using pressure treated wood which gets *much* more exposure to the environment that the wood inside a hot tub skirt.
Just a quick aside, off topic, Alot of people were using those metal "2x4"s for construction. They are always straight, lighter, and cheaper. In a fire a 2x4 will burn for a good while. In a fire, once the metal hits its melting point *poof* goodbye metal stud. Something to think about if you are paranoid.
-Ed
Just had to edit this in: You need pressure treated wood if it is pine that makes up your tub frame. If you use woods like cedar, rosewood, Douglas Fir (I think..) they do *not* require treatments.
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Far be it for me to toss gas on the fire, but are those metal studs you refer to used as structural support walls, or just for divider walls? In our office here, they use the metal studs to put up divider walls. But I haven't seen any houses built with steel support walls.
As far as price goes, I looked into the steel thing for my latest basement construction project, and while the studs themselves were cheaper than a 2 X 4 stud, by the time you get all the other pieces you need, top and bottom runners, gromet inserts for protectting the electric lines, the prices were too close to be of any issue. So I went wood. One thing nice about the steel studs may be that they are all the same. No having to sort thru the wood pile to find acceptably straight boards.
Gimick count: (aka: arguments that are un-winnable)
Full foam vs thermopane
Circ Pump vs not.
wood frame vs steel
ford vs chevy
my dad can beat up your dad
Brewman
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One of the things to keep in mind with pressure treated is that as it dries out it tends to twist and warp. Now I don't know if that's an issue with the relatively small pieces used in a tub frame, but I would be concerned if the only connectors holding the frame together were staples. Does anybody use screws to build frames?
Along the same lines, if the frame were made of douglas fir, then that frame should be treated with some sort of preservative. Untreated doug fir will rot.
One advantage of metal frames is if you need to bore through the stud to run plumbing or wiring, the metal stud will retain a greater portion of its strength than a wood stud.
Honestly though, I doubt there is any real difference between the two materials in the context of a tub. In home construction, metal studs are generally used for fire retardation or where mold may be an issue (wet basement). In the "sealed" environment of a spa (assuming no leaks or leaks are properly attended to) the mold issue should be minimized. An id case of a fire, well, there are other issues to be dealt with :'(.
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But Brewman! My dad can beat up your dad!
;D
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I agree that pressure treated will be an issue! It's very hard to keep 2x8 joist on a deck from warping, have you ever gone through a pile of them at the lumber yard trying to find a straight one? Now, think about it being a pressure treated 4x4 or 2x2 that’s even worse. I agree with rocket on the Cedar frame probably being the best, every signpost, mailbox post or fence post we put in the ground is cedar. It stays straight and doesn't rot.
Rick, I don't think TP is a gimmick but I also personally prefer FF. I would be interested in your experience with FF that left you so passionate against it! Did you have a bad experience or just a very good salesman for FF!
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I agree that pressure treated will be an issue! It's very hard to keep 2x8 joist on a deck from warping, have you ever gone through a pile of them at the lumber yard trying to find a straight one? Now, think about it being a pressure treated 4x4 or 2x2 that’s even worse.
I'm not sure what the issue will be, but it certainly can be hard to keep a 2x8 joist straight and lumber quaility in a retail yard is terrible.
The bigger the span of lumber the greater the chance of warping, bowing, crowning etc... if you get the chance, take a look at 4x4 and 2x2 pressure treated wood at lengths 8 feet and under and compare their quality to long lengths of 2x8. Compare pressure treated lumber that is incised with lumber that is not incised. Also note what grade all the lumber is; there's a big difference between select structural and No. 2.
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I agree that pressure treated will be an issue!
Who are you agreeing with, and what's the issue? BobRex wasn't sure it is an issue at smaller lengths. The 2x8x12s I bought for my deck were straight.
Again, go back to the house example. If wood twisted and warped so much our decks would resemble a mobius strip by now! Our house walls would be inside out. Every wooden fence in the world would rot out, fall off, and twist itself into pieces.
Please, stop the insanity!
-Ed
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Any one who says metal will last longer than wood is dead wrong. I have gone through 2 babacue grills on the same deck! Water is worse on metal than treated wood. Now if the metal was an inch thick? But thin galvinized will rot faster than good treated wood. Now lets talk rivets ohhh wait don't get me started. Both are good and should not be used as a superiority trait over the other. Comfort in the dealer and the tub on your back side. Oh............ metal is noisy, rivets vibrate loose...ooops sorry I wasn't going to do that!
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Ummm, Tman, I've got a Weber grill that's 7 years old, sits outside, albeit under a roof (can we agree that that's similar to the environment that a tub frame is exposed to?), no cover, and has no rust! I've got a galvanized watering can that always has water in it. Guess what... no rust after 5 years. I can remember having galvanized trash cans that took 10 years to show serious signs of rust.
Now tell me that a tub frame will be in a similar environment (constant contact with water, exposed to the elements, victim to all sorts of "trashy" liquids) and I might agree that galvy might be a bad idea for a frame. But since it's not, I won't. ;D
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Hence the major issue - quality manufacturing is how you prep your materials, not in what materials you use. Either can be made appropriate and "safe". The idea that wood is inherently risky is ridiculous.
My guess is the grill has had scratches in it that went through the protective enamel coating. I had a weber that rusted out after several years (5 or 7 or so), but it got scratched alot. My new Grand Cafe has no scratches and I expect no rust. The doors are stainless steel and the only rust I see is on the inside from the bolts that hold the door on (which is odd that they wouldn't use stainless steel machine screws)
In some metal frames the rivets vibrate over time and this may rub off *cheap* protective coatings. This is why, I believe, you usually see rust around rivets as opposed to just anywhere on the metal frame. I hear some companies coat first, then make the rivet holes afterwards. oops.
Last time I got on a boat the pier was made out of wood, stuck in water all the time, and yet this 30 year old (at least??) structure seemed stable to me! I don't see too many piers made of metal!
-Ed
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I'm not sure what the issue will be, but it certainly can be hard to keep a 2x8 joist straight and lumber quaility in a retail yard is terrible.
The bigger the span of lumber the greater the chance of warping, bowing, crowning etc... if you get the chance, take a look at 4x4 and 2x2 pressure treated wood at lengths 8 feet and under and compare their quality to long lengths of 2x8. Compare pressure treated lumber that is incised with lumber that is not incised. Also note what grade all the lumber is; there's a big difference between select structural and No. 2.
I bought 2x2 in 36 inch lengths for a deck rail and waited 3 weeks before I was able to put it up, 2/3's of all of the pieces were warped. Had a similar experience with a fence and 4x4 pressure treated, 5 foot lengths all warped before getting them up.
I also sold play sets and used premium grade pressure treated for those but dropped the line because of not being able to keep up with all of the replacement pieces on the sets.
So no, I personally don’t believe that it’s a matter of quality, thickness or length. My experience is that it is an inherent flaw in all pressure treated wood to warp if it is not braced and/or bracketed in several places.
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I bought 2x2 in 36 inch lengths for a deck rail and waited 3 weeks before I was able to put it up, 2/3's of all of the pieces were warped. Had a similar experience with a fence and 4x4 pressure treated, 5 foot lengths all warped before getting them up.
I also sold play sets and used premium grade pressure treated for those but dropped the line because of not being able to keep up with all of the replacement pieces on the sets.
So no, I personally don’t believe that it’s a matter of quality, thickness or length. My experience is that it is an inherent flaw in all pressure treated wood to warp if it is not braced and/or bracketed in several places.
I guess you could say it is an "inherent flaw" in all wood to warp if it's not braced and/or bracketed and most importantly not properly stored, especially if the wood wasn't dried properly. Pressure treatment does require additional drying and storage consideration.
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I guess you could say it is an "inherent flaw" in all wood to warp if it's not braced and/or bracketed and most importantly not properly stored, especially if the wood wasn't dried properly. Pressure treatment does require additional drying and storage consideration.
Yes to some degree but I gotta tell you; I still sell play sets and we have very few problems with warping, wanna guess what where using now? Cedar! Oh and some metal also. BTW, I replaced all of the deck spindles and posts with cedar also at the advise of several deck and fence specialists! ;D ;)
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I use cedar for all the railing components, deck boards and rim joists, but cost for joists inhibits the use for the understructure. And the stair risers are made of pressure treated, ever price out a 2x12 cedar?
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Also, cedar doesn't have the same strength per dimention as fir. A cedar 2x12 will not be approved to hold the same load as a fir one.
Brewman
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Yes brewman, but they work fine and are over rated for the use of steps, cedar I mean, and they look great compared to a treated. I liked the brown treated that used to be available, but had a hard time last deck aquiring it and was told it may not be available much more.
Back to this metal versus wood thing. If you think metal is superior to wood and I am not taking sides here, Take a 2x4 that is 3 feet long and a 22 ga. wall stud 3 feet long set the 2 side by side with one end on your step and the other on the ground and jump on them see which stays straight. As far as longevity I think it is a non issue they will both outlast the tub if cared for properly.
My preference would be wood because it is quieter, has a way higher insulating factor and is easier to work with.
The surface of a deck is an enviroment so much harsher than inside the cabinet of a hot tub, yet could you imagine using galvinized material as deck boards and what they would look like after being walked on scratched by rocks in your shoes have all kinds of stuff dropped on it and shovels scraped across them. Or even a snowblowers chains digging into them (I'll never do that again)
Now if we were talking a welded aluminum frame! Or a carbon fiber frame! Or recycled plastics! Or wait, way cool titanium!
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Some of the opinions in this thread are just too funny. Tell ya what--I'll be glad to post pictures of my metal frame next summer--after the tub has been in service for a year on my p.t. deck 8 feet above grade. I live with a view of the Gulf and have salt water canals on both the north and south sides of the house (tub is on the south side of the house.) Then maybe we can put this nonsense to rest?
BTW, the last time my metal frame spoke to me, the voice was no louder than when my p.t. deck last whispered in my ear!
8)
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Well, in my opinion, no other hottub forum even comes close to having as much info on homebuilding, playsets, & barbeque grills. Thanks guys!
That said, I'm looking for a new grill and thought powder coat would last longer than enamel. Anybody know, does Webber use enamel or powder coat? Does the powder coat really perform better over time given the extreme heat/cool cycle of a backyard grill?
I'm looking at a the basic Webber kettle and have been quoted $149. That includes the basic kettle, grates, a starter bag of charcoal, but no cook tools. Should I hold hold out for a tong/spatula set or is it pretty standard not to include those?
temporarily insane,
Stars
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Windsurfdog,
The idea you had - "Tell ya what--I'll be glad to post pictures of my metal frame next summer--after the tub has been in service for a year on my p.t. deck 8 feet above grade. I live with a view of the Gulf and have salt water canals on both the north and south sides of the house (tub is on the south side of the house.) Then maybe we can put this nonsense to rest? " - is a great idea BUT unfortunately it wont work - People will argue what color you should use on the deck to match the tub! ;D
Vinny
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UTS....I love my Weber Performer, the best of both worlds gas and the real charcoal taste. Check it out. The kettle seems to be enamel but the balance is SS.
I'll post pictures of my wood framed tub also but it will be 3 years old soon, last time I looked it was as good as the day I bought it.
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I'll post pictures of my wood framed tub also but it will be 3 years old soon, last time I looked it was as good as the day I bought it.
Exactly, tman. Let's team up on'em and put this ridiculous debate to rest. BTW, how loud was your wood frame when it last spoke to you? ;D
8)
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hey under the stars,
i would hold out for a lid lifter and a set of steps for that kettle. but remember. you definitely don't want a wood frame on your grill.
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How many tubs are retired due to warped wood or rusting metal frames? My guess would be that most tubs that are retired are due to pumps and heaters going bad or leaks at a
point in the tubs life that it wouldn't be worth fixing.
The frame material would probably outlast other issues whether it be wood or metal.
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I would agree, but for 1 thing: A frame that is not manufactured correctly *can* shorten the life of a tub.
Bare wood, like bare pine, *might* rot, especially if you have a leak that goes undetected for a significant amount of time. Some metal frames *might* rust based on the kind of metal used and the kind of coating used.
Wood frames (and metal frames) must be structurally sound. No 1x1 wood holding up the shell and all that water! ;D
There *are* valid structural questions to ask, but *both* can be done right by a *quality* manufacturer.
-Ed
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I would agree, but for 1 thing: A frame that is not manufactured correctly *can* shorten the life of a tub.
Bare wood, like bare pine, *might* rot, especially if you have a leak that goes undetected for a significant amount of time. Some metal frames *might* rust based on the kind of metal used and the kind of coating used.
Wood frames (and metal frames) must be structurally sound. No 1x1 wood holding up the shell and all that water! ;D
There *are* valid structural questions to ask, but *both* can be done right by a *quality* manufacturer.
-Ed
I agree with Ed 1000% This debate is getting silly and out of hand. As Bethstar pointed out other equipment will likely fail long before the frame structure. This debate, like TP v FF, 2-speed v circ, will rage on. Consumers and dealers that purchased one because they were convince the other was better will continue to bash the other.
HTMan
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Many thanks to HotTubMan. For his last post and for one less recent...
Sorry to repeat something from another forum, but no one seems to use the other one.
For those of you that are impressed by tubs with "lifetime warranty/guaratee" on the hot tub shell, I HAVE SOME GREAT OFFERS FOR YOU!
I have cars and trucks with lifetime frame warranties. These cars will last FOREVER!
For the big spenders out there, I also have a few bridges you may be interested in, they also come with lifetime guaratees.
Send money now!
HotTubMan
I think this applies to wood OR metal.
Thank you HotTubMan
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Sure does! I have wood and metal bridges availible. No wood frames on the cars/trucks :(
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