Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: HotTubMan on September 12, 2004, 05:08:54 pm
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If microban is such a great producty, why is it that none of the "top five" use it?
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If microban is such a great producty, why is it that none of the "top five" use it?
What does D1 have the other top spas don't?
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Marquis has made it standard on thier "granite type finishes"....
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If microban is such a great producty, why is it that none of the "top five" use it?
I guess that depends on what you call the top five? I think its more a choice of who the Manufactures go through for acrylic, if your Manufacture uses Lucite it's available to them.
You would be surprised at all of the things it is used in that you come into contact with everyday! Take a look for yourself http://www.microban.com/.
Now, my personal opinion is that if the filtration system is over engineered for the tub MicroBan might be overkill but it certainly can't hurt!
As far as why don't some of the bigger companies use it, many like D1 and HotSpring use a proprietary material that it would not make sense for the expense of adding another skew option to make the change.
The reality is if shoppers hot buttons were more oriented towards filtration and bacteria control instead of jets, motors, waterfalls and lights than I'm sure you would see the whole industry looking at a microbe control material. No matter what anyone says, spas are an emotional purchase and the more things you add that stimulate the emotional receptors the more attention you will get.
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We sell both and the customer likes the look of Microban over the standard granites
beyond any potential other benefits.
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Master Spas....
1. Hot springs
2. Sundance
3. Master spas..
Oh look there they are # 3 on the list! They use Microban. I guess you were looking at some other top 5 list? As for it's benefits? It was a major point in buying the master but, what the heck, throw it in too!
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Interesting to see just how many spa companies use this it. I know we do and of course it's excepted as a benefit for the consumer. It's not a major selling feature an often I don't even promote it as such but as Stuart mentioned...it can't hurt!
I do remember hearing years ago that it couldn't be sold as a product that kills bacteria but rather a product that prevents the growth of it on the acrylic surface.
Anyone with good information on this topic could maybe elaborate...
Steve
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Drifter, I understand that you are very happy with your spa. and all of us are glad to know that you are having a great ownership experience with no troubles. But let's be honest here, those of us in the industry all know that master spas is NOT in the top 3 or top 5 or whatever lists we may come up with for production of spas. It's failry well known that world wide Watkins manufacturing, Sundance, and Dimension One are three of top companies in the industry in terms of sales. Master Spas makes a good product, but let's not confuse sales marketing mumbo jumbo with the real big picture here. As for the microban.............as far as i know Lucite uses this in their acrylic shells. We happen to sell hawkeye spas, which utilizes Lucite for it's spa shells. Having talked with our rep, he confirmed that microban cannot be marketed as a bacteria KILLER. it can however be marketed as a bacteria inhibitor, meaning that it can prevent bacteria from growing on the spa shell. he also said that because of the microban in the acrylics Lucite is able to offer richer looking colors in their shells. Now THAT is a good sellling point as it gives the consumer more color options to choose from.
Jason
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Drifter,
Master may be in the top three of the arjuna list but they would have to add alot more than microban to even make the top ten. I'm really happy yours is working out for you and I wish you the best!
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Drifter,
Master may be in the top three of the arjuna list but they would have to add alot more than microban to even make the top ten. I'm really happy yours is working out for you and I wish you the best!
MasterBashers Unite!
8)
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MasterBashers Unite!
8)
This sounds like a very cool club! I want to join, I have no love for their sleazy marketing or poor quality. Have you guys ever looked at how cheap those side panels are made?
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How much of a problem is bacteria growing on the shell?
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This sounds like a very cool club! I want to join, I have no love for their sleazy marketing or poor quality. Have you guys ever looked at how cheap those side panels are made?
LOL! You sound like a perfect prospect!
8)
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Hmm, sleazy / cheap panels? I guess those would be the Masterwood panels that customers asked for. The regular panels are the duramaster panels.
I bet half the folks who bash Master have never been in one, other than the few dealers who frequent here.
Proud MS owner.
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I bet half the folks who bash Master have never been in one, other than the few dealers who frequent here.
Proud MS owner.
I could have been a MS owner, but our dealer here wasn't too great. I had a friend with an LX-1050 that I had been in . We were looking at a model and wanted an 8 footer, they only had a similar 7 footer on the floor. They told me the 8 footer would be in stock within 10 days and they would set it up for us for a test. 2 years later I am still waiting for that call.
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I could have been a MS owner, but our dealer here wasn't too great. I had a friend with an LX-1050 that I had been in . We were looking at a model and wanted an 8 footer, they only had a similar 7 footer on the floor. They told me the 8 footer would be in stock within 10 days and they would set it up for us for a test. 2 years later I am still waiting for that call.
I'm sorry you were treated that way, wmccall. Thank goodness all MS dealers are not like that......
8)
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I'm sorry you were treated that way, wmccall. Thank goodness all MS dealers are not like that......
8)
I'm sure they are not, and you will probably find one bad dealer selling most brands at one time or another. I did only tell part of the story. I could have called and said, "Is that tub in yet?" But I didn't. After our first visit I visited their website and emailed them a question about the model I was looking at. I got this really irate email back about not selling over the internet and supporting your local dealer. (the message really was nasty) I reread my original message and concluded his reading comphrension was too poor and didn't ever want to speak to him again. (For anyone in Columbus, they drive pink trucks.)
Thinking back to that incident, I checked out thier website http://www.hot-tubs.com/ and see now that I think it is the only hot tub dealer's website I have ever known that never mentions what brands they carry. When I visited their store they were a Master Spa only store. Maybe I'll stop in again and see if that is still true. They carry Leisure Time, which seems like an affordable chemical line. Oh, and oddly enough, they sell these chemicals over the internet. Support your local dealer as long as it is them I guess! :o
Ok, going back down memory lane I just got reminded another reason I didn't buy from Masterspa. There is one minor thing that as far as I know, only Master Spa has in common with Thermospa (I really don't have any reason to dislike the spa) After being mad at this dealer, I went to Masterspas website and the only way you can get a name of a local dealer is to fill out a form and have them call you. That is a definite sale buster for me.
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When I bought my Master Spa, I just called customer service to find out who the local dealer was. No need to fill out any form via website.
When I looked at Beachcomber and Marquis both I had to fill out a form on their site to find out who was local. No dealer called me, but I did get a lot of pretty junk mail in my box a few days later.
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How long ago did you look at Marquis....I know for at least the last year that you just put in your zip code to find your local dealer...no form to fill out..... http://www.marquisspas.com/locator.asp
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Opinions, opinions, opinions. Why cant we all just get along.
(http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/101538.gif)
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For the one’s who don’t believe tazman on how cheap the side panels on the Master really are, I would recommend you to go to your local Master Spa dealer and knock on each spas cabinet. Then go to your local Hotspring dealer and do the same thing.
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Oh, man! I couldn't imagine siting in a hot tub that makes a funny sound when you knock on the cabinet. Pull your heads out of your a$$e$ people!
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Pull your head out of it. Do you want one that will crack in two years or one that will last for 10?
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When I bought my Master Spa, I just called customer service to find out who the local dealer was. No need to fill out any form via website.
When I looked at Beachcomber and Marquis both I had to fill out a form on their site to find out who was local. No dealer called me, but I did get a lot of pretty junk mail in my box a few days later.
I will echo Mendo on this one. Beachcomber has had their dealer locator up for quite a while now as well.
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For the record:
My Master Spas LSX was delivered on 7/11/04. I'll be glad to report to the group here when my "cheap" side panels deteriorate into nothingness. For now, I'm a happy camper--"cheap" side panels, "sleazy" advertising and all! Gotta keep these MasterBashers busy!
8)
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I will echo Mendo on this one. Beachcomber has had their dealer locator up for quite a while now as well.
Since you mentioned it, they have had it up, but it was pretty outdated for a long time. I never heard of Beachcomber till after my purchase. When several people here mentioned their satisfaction with them I checked the site and was told the nearest dealer was 250 miles away. But then I found two users here who bought from dealers much closer (50 and 75 miles) Both were in business awhile. Took another 6 months before they showed up on thier site.
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Since you mentioned it, they have had it up, but it was pretty outdated for a long time. I never heard of Beachcomber till after my purchase. When several people here mentioned their satisfaction with them I checked the site and was told the nearest dealer was 250 miles away. But then I found two users here who bought from dealers much closer (50 and 75 miles) Both were in business awhile. Took another 6 months before they showed up on thier site.
Wow, I didn't know that. I would have been screaming if my store wasn't showing up on the dealer locator, especially for such a long time!!!
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Opinions, opinions, opinions. Why cant we all just get along.
(http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/101538.gif)
Huh,
That cartoon is a so funny. I think thats what would happen if we all worked a show or fair together. Especialy if Stuart and I were into the tequilla.
Spahappy
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Just here to make ya smile ;D
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Huh,
That cartoon is a so funny. I think thats what would happen if we all worked a show or fair together. Especialy if Stuart and I were into the tequilla.
Spahappy
No if we were into the tequila we would be much bigger and more indestructible than those two! :P
It has to be one of the better animations I've seen though! I'm like a little kid showing it to everyone!
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More Truths About Microban(r) and Anti-Microbial Agents in Acrylic Sheet
Microban(r) is a pesticide that an acrylic sheet producer has added to its product for bath and hot tub surfaces. The company is insinuating and implying health and cleaning benefits that haven't been proven. In fact, new scientific evidence indicates that there is no difference between untreated acrylic sheet and acrylic sheet made with Microban in killing or inhibiting the growth of bacteria on the respective surfaces.
What is Microban?
Microban is a registered pesticide made by the Microban Products Company of Huntersville, N.C. Its primary ingredient is a chemical called triclosan, which, in its liquid form, has been used as a disinfectant in hospitals for over 25 years. In 1980, three biochemical engineers invented a process to imbed the pesticide into the structure of plastics. This became the technology upon which Microban would be based, and in 1990, the Microban Products Company was formed. Since that time, Microban additives have been incorporated into a variety of consumer and commercial products.
Does Microban kill or slow the growth of bacteria when used in acrylic sheet?
No. A new study was recently conducted by SGS U. S. Testing Company Inc., an independent laboratory in Fairfield, N. J. Completed in January of this year, the tests indicate that there is no difference between untreated acrylic sheet and acrylic sheet made with Microban in killing or slowing the growth of bacteria on the respective surfaces.
How was the new study conducted?
Samples of manufactured bathtubs that contain both the untreated and treated acrylic sheets were purchased from retail establishments and cut into samples. Each sample was exposed to strains of bacteria, including Escherichia coli (E. coli), Staphylococcus aureus (S. aureus), and Streptococcus faecalis (S. faecalis). The acrylic samples sat for periods of 0, 4 and 24 hours. The bacteria were then removed from the acrylic surfaces and measured and counted according to standard protocol.
What are the results of the study?
Specifically, SGS U. S. Testing Company concluded that the samples of untreated and treated acrylic sheets "did not show any anti-microbial activity (0% bacterial reduction) at 4 or 24 hours against" E. coli, S. aureus, and S. faecalis.
Is a bath or hot tub made with Microban "healthier?"
Absolutely not. In fact, manufacturers of Microban-treated acrylic sheet are not allowed by law to even imply that they are. The United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) will not allow Microban Products Company, or any of its customers, to make claims regarding health benefits, such as protection from germs or disease prevention. Why? Because there is no specific evidence that any of the products treated with Microban are effective in preventing the spread of bacteria or disease.
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Do hot tubs and baths treated with Microban need to be cleaned?
Absolutely. Materials with Microban still need normal and frequent cleaning and disinfecting. Microban does not protect against hard water film buildup or stains, or soap scum residue. Also, the presence of Microban does not reduce the need or amount of sanitizers needed in a hot tub's water.
In fact, a hot tub or bath treated with Microban needs exactly the same level of maintenance and cleaning as one that is not treated with Microban.
Does Microban make acrylic easier to clean, last longer, or look newer longer?
There is no published evidence that shows Microban makes acrylic sheet easier to clean, last longer, or look newer longer.
Why? Because acrylic sheet is already one of the most durable, long-lasting, and beautiful materials used in the hot tub and bath markets.
What benefit does Microban add to acrylic hot tubs and baths?
Strictly speaking, acrylic sheet treated with Microban offers customers and consumers no benefits that are not inherently part of the acrylic material. There is no proof that anti-microbial agents incorporated into acrylic sheet products provide any health benefits whatsoever. And now, there is specific scientific evidence that indeed Microban does not provide any antibacterial benefit when used in acrylic sheet.
What do expert scientists say about adding Microban to consumer goods?
Several noted microbiologists have said that adding Microban to many consumer goods is unnecessary, and some have even called it a "marketing gimmick."
Not only have experts said that the benefits of Microban are questionable, but many are also concerned that the wide-spread use of these substances may cause a major public health problem. Researchers are concerned that repeated use of products containing triclosan could be breeding resistant bacteria, or "superbugs." A 1998 Tufts University study showed that over-exposure created five different triclosan-resistant strains of E. coli. According to Tufts' Dr. Stuart Levy, "If the idea is to sterilize surfaces, it is misguided. You can't sterilize surfaces that are open to the air. You will not eliminate bacteria, but rather replace them with other micro-organisms which could be potentially harmful."
The truth is...
Continuous cast acrylic has served as the premier surface for millions of hot tubs and baths sold in North America over the past 20 years. Acrylic has a proven track record of retaining its beauty and high-gloss shine through years of everyday use. Acrylic is extremely hard and non-porous by nature. So, dirt, soapy film, and germs can't easily penetrate. Untreated, it is the material of choice for quality baths and hot tubs.
For any questions or a copy of "More Truth About Microban(r) and Anti-Microbial Agents in Acrylic Sheet", call Aristech Acrylics LLC at 1-800-354-9858.