Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: iggman on September 05, 2004, 08:31:57 pm
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Just another question---- We have a catalina dealer here, and my wife was very taken with the options on the spas such as the lights, stereo, and misters. They do make a large spa, which we are in the market for. (CL600). However, when we read about them on the internet and forums, we are concerned with warranty and reliability. At this point, our focus has turned to hotsprings, D1, and Sundance, do you think we should reconsider catalina?
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No on Catalina for the reasons stated.
You're considering 3 of the top 4 in the industry. Marquis being in that group. You may spend a little mor today bu will sae in the years to come.
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We passed on Catalina for the same reasons you stated as well as the dealer not allowing a wettest after spending 45 minutes trying to get a saleman to wait on us.
In the end we chose L.A. Spas and are very happy with our decision thus far had the tub a little over a week and a half now no major problems noted and fingers are crossed.
We opted for the LED light and the 4 speaker cd stereo ; not a muct have but as overpriced as it was we enjoy its benefits and are glad we splurged. the LED light is a must have (and not necessarily needed to be purchased with the tub) ours plugged into the regular light you get with the base model spa ; they cost about 89-150 depending on who sells it to you.
Good Luck , out of those mentioned we liked sundance the best but again the dealer ruined that for us as well.
Happy Tubbin'!!!
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Catalina is one of the larger spa manufacturers in the world selling spas in 32 countries (at last count). Where are the negative articles about their reliability published?
I have a Catalina and am very satisfied with their type of warranty. I did not have to pay $2000+ extra to get a non-prorated type warranty, and having owned the spa for over 5 years with absolutely no problems, I think it's well made. I have owned several other more highly advertised "name" brand spas over the last 25 years with mixed results, including major problems with a Sundance and its dealer and his inferior factory support. Their warranty was not worth the paper on which it was printed.
Therapy-wise, I favor the Catalina over all other spas I've owned or wet tested. The only other spa that came close was a Saratoga, which had a non-prorated type warranty, but the spa was priced $2200 more than the larger Catalina I bought.
The spa I like the least is Marquis and its "zone" concept. I believe in good therapy in all spa seating simultaneously, and cannot fathom today's spas having high horsepower pumps and still needing diverter valves.
Sorry for rambling on so much.
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Mavrick you wrote..."When we wet tested the D1 Chairman II, for example, The salesman had to set the diverters to the mid position just for us to get nearly adequate pressure in every seat. In the Marquis wet tests, having to get up and adjust the diverters from zone to zone drove us out the door.
The Hot Spring testing was the worst of all for me, but my wife did like the moto massage seat. ......this is from the thread noisy diverter values....
I was wondering why do you feel the need to bash others spas just because you did not care for them.....the company's you mention all have great reputations for building a very good product and for taking care of their customers after the sale.....it is great that you like your Catalina as well as your Toyota.....but they are not for everybody....
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I may be wrong, but I perceive one of the purposes of this forum is for spa testers and owners to discuss their experiences, good and bad. If we left out brand names of what value would be the posts?
Many of the other posters in here are dealers or tub repairers and show their biases in nearly all of their posts.
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That is a fair assement....and I guess you can use it to excuse lack tach or any common courtesy but I have a question....you mention that your spa that you are extremely pleased with is 5 years old....and that you feel it is the best for therapy.....which is all fine and wonderful.....but do you make it habit to go and wet test spas in your free time or were these the tests that you did 5 years ago when you bought your spa.....I did notice that you mention"spa testers"....is that what you are..or do....it is very intresting.....I have never heard of anyone who does this....if so, it must be fun.... :D
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Actually, I am an English teacher. In my spare time, I do consumer product evaluations and write articles for various magazines and trade journals.
I do use tact when I'm not attacked, and all my Toyotas had Tachs.
A year ago I bought my son and grandaughters a 92" X 92" Catalina El Cortez for $6300 including tax.
I might have bought an Emerald spa, but there is no dealership within 500 miles of us.
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Actually, I am an English teacher. In my spare time, I write articles for various magazines and trade journals.
I do use tact when I'm not attacked, and my Toyotas all have Tachs.
Any of those trade magazines in the spa industry?
I'd like to throw my 2 cents into the mix here. Catalina has come a long way from where they where and you have to give Boyd (owner of the factory) kudos for his drive and ambition but they don't, in my opinion, qualify as one of the higher end quality brands. I worked with them clear back in the Curtis and Caribbean spas days. They where the spa on "The Price Is Right", they where unique and flashy but very cheaply made and inexpensive to buy. If you visited their factory you might have a different opinion of them, everything is fairly old and dirty, you will see some old guy gluing plumbing fittings on the dirty floor and things are fairly strewn about. I think they have more Automobiles and junk in the factory than actual spas. Last time I visited no one seemed very happy to be there. It was a far cry from the sheer technological glow of the HotSpring and D1 factories or even many others for that matter; when I visited the Marquis factory they two where in an older facility and had kind of an archaic feel but in contrast you could eat off of the floor, everything was in perfect order and everyone seemed thrilled to be there. I was very surprised by the efficiency of the whole operation especially compared to Catalina.
As far as I know Catalina doesn't even have a research and development department. Boyd just decides what he wants to add or take away from the spas and they do it. I would say that HotSpring’s R & D department probably costs a lot more to operate than Catalina’s entire factory.
Now, having said all of that I do know several very happy Catalina owners (many whom I sold) to this day. My overall biggest concern with the product is I believe Boyd goes through an outside insurance company for his warranty and it is not handled by the factory.
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Well said Stuart and absolutely right. That said, the insight and experience of we sales people, dealers and service techs adds to the overall value of this forum in our efforts to help people.
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Thanks,
I just recently started seeing your posts so incase it hasn't been said - welcome to the forum!
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Thank you for Maverick for answering that about wet testing, so it was a year ago that you tested....I hope your children are enjoying the spa....it is a wonderful gift......I am sure it will give them many years of enjoyment....
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Stuart:
1) I'm curious as to how recent are your latest Catalina on site observations;
2) Do you know a Catalina employee by the name of Oscar ?;
3) What other brands offer a spa with 40" or greater depth providing very comfortable seating for very tall people, and come with a beautiful mahogany skirt?
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Stuart:
1) I'm curious as to how recent are your latest Catalina on site observations;
2) Do you know a Catalina employee by the name of Oscar ?;
I do I do! He works in the technical support department at the Catalina factory. A good and knowledgable guy.
3) What other brands offer a spa with 40" or greater depth providing very comfortable seating for very tall people, and come with a beautiful mahogany skirt?
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You know what really bugs me about this forum? (I know most of you are saying "No, and we don't care either!" ) Whenever a newbie like me asks " So what do you think about "Brand X" Spa's - everyone that has had a problem comes out of the woodwork and says that brand sucks !
Isn't it true that just like cars, you can get a "lemon" every once in a while? I mean I have been reading this forum for almost 2 months now because I figured that I would get some useful information about different manufacturers and models, but based on what I have read, I shouldn't buy ANY brand because someone has something negative to say about all of them !
Ok................enough of my yap............I'll just buy the one I like the best, with the best warranty, sales rep, and fits in my budget !
Thanks.........................................I think !
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Go for it, just don’t come back here complaining.
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Wouldn't think of it !
And I'm not complaining now...........I just don't understand why someone here couldn't simply post something like : In the $15K range the best is.........and in the $10K range the best is.................. etc.
My point is that people are actually going to spend this kind of money based on what someone here might say.
Don't get me wrong.....if a tub is bad then by all means say it is bad ! But it seems like a "tug-o-war" sometime with half of you saying a tub is good and the other half saying stay away from them !
That's all I am saying. Not trying piss anyone off.
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Shoe,
In my experience, there are basically 3 types of opinions when it comes to which spas to buy,
1) Brands A, B, C, D are those top 4 (or so) you would consider the best (which always includes the one you own/sell),
2) Brands W, X, Y, Z are those that for one reason or another you wouldn't buy with confederate money (IMO Cal Spas, Adventure Spas, Thermospas, Haven spas, etc.),
3) All others.
I don't think the opinions in this thread are that Catalina is in the 2nd category. That's really the one you want to avoid. I think what some are saying is Catalina simply doesn't make their "A" list but that doesn't mean they think you need to avoid them at all costs. Sometimes its more important who you DON'T buy from than necessarily who you do buy from. If you are sold on Catalina, go for it. However, if you come in here asking for an opinion you have to be prepared to find that others are going to give you THEIR OPINION.
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Hey Spatech.................thanks for the info and the opinion.
You're right. I guess if we ask, then we should expect to hear what we "don't" want to hear. :)
I really am glad that I signed up here though because before I started reading I was "Sold" on a (don't puke) Thermo-Spa ! I got their info and video and the 20 or so follow-up calls asking "When" I was going to buy one. Now I know to avoid them like the plague !!
I guess my frustration comes from learning that Thermo-Spa's were REALLY bad, then I thought I would look at the Sundance CAMEO because it had the features that I liked - but then someone said they didn't like Sundance. Then I looked at the Catalina "Manhattan" and really liked that one but now people here are saying "no, no, no"........................so it's easy to get confused. And I certainly don't want to just through $8K or $10K away !
Anyway.....thanks again for the good post and I'll keep reading and looking !
;) ;D
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I think Catalina makes a nice spa and certainly has its share of happy owners....I only brought up why some feel the need to for lack of better word "bash" others spas as some seem to do....I am someone who has more of a problem with the way certain manufactures sell their product....and with those who feel the need to put down others product with out a credible reason.......Stuart is great about presenting reasons why he has the opinions about some of the makers that he does…. And there are times when a person will make statement, that is simply false and inaccurate And those who have more experience with certain lines, they know that it is not a factual statement...I appreciated what Chris H said on another thread about Jacuzzi....in that he stated he was not a fan but these are the real differences between them and Sundance....now for some the cost savings of the Jacuzzi out weighed the added features of the Sundance that Chris believes add reasonable value....I am not endorsing one or the other but giving Chris credit for being up front and sharing why he felt that way.....I just wish people would give a credible reason if they feel the need to put down another product….
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Stuart:
1) I'm curious as to how recent are your latest Catalina on site observations;
2) Do you know a Catalina employee by the name of Oscar ?;
3) What other brands offer a spa with 40" or greater depth providing very comfortable seating for very tall people, and come with a beautiful mahogany skirt?
Looked at them at a fair last week! Funny they had the TV propped up with foam blocks because it wouldn't stay up!
Yes I know Oscar.
Many brands make a spa that fits tall people and have been able to do it in even a 36-inch spa by engineering the seating. I have a friend that is 6'7" that bought a Honda element after looking at a hummer H2 because he had more head and legroom in addition to the fact that the Honda was rated higher for engineering than the H2.
As far as the "mahogany skirt" goes it is a Philippine mahogany that is fairly inexpensive to buy. Many companies have tried it with poor results in fact, many of the hardwood pallets out today are made out of it because it is a little to unstable for finish wood with the long, twisted grain of the wood.
BTW, before this gets into a heated debate as to the quality of Catalina I wanted to let know that you have my highest regards as an English teacher! You do what I would love to do for a living but (no offense intended here) I didn’t feel that I could make a very good income as a teacher because we don’t pay our public educators what they are worth.
I am confused by several of your posts though and perhaps you can set me straight. Here are some of your past quotes
on: Sep 7th, 2004, 9:18pm you said
A year ago I bought my son and grandaughters a 92" X 92" Catalina El Cortez for $6300 including tax.
on: Sep 1st, 2004, 6:44pm you said
I am now going on 3 years with the original filters. Could it be the Eco One?
Your going on 3 years with filters in a spa you bought a year ago?
on: Jul 10th, 2004, 12:13pm you said
Thus, I feel that it is even more important to have a relationship with the factory people behind the dealer. If my Catalina dealer moved on and was replaced with another person, or that sales outlet shut down, I wouldn't care less. Why? Because I established a relationship with some key people in the Catalina factory/headquarters before and immediately after buying my spa.
Did you buy the spa from a dealer, the factory or your son?
on:Sep 2nd, 2004, 7:47pm you said
Marquis is the worst spa we wet tested.
on: Jul 10th, 2004, 11:44am you said
The Hot Spring testing was the worst of all for me
I think you mentioned a couple of others that were the “worst”. Sounds like all spas are horrible except Catalina?
on: Sep 1st, 2004, 6:44pm you said
P.S. I also do a drain/water change only every 6 months, and a 2 pound container of dichlor lasts a year.
on: May 9th, 2004, 12:35am you said
I use Eco One, dichlor, a little Sea Klear 4 in1 once a week and NO MPS. Water is perfect with a change every 4 months.
Are you sure of your maintenance?
on: Jul 10th, 2004, 11:44am you said
My Catalina Spa does have 2 diverter valves, one for the whirlpool jet on the primary pump and the other on the secondary pump for the geyser jet. Both of these are very large jets with massive water flow.
on: Sep 2nd, 2004, 7:47pm you said
We bought a spa with no diverter valves and 7 of our family or friends can enjoy excellent therapy AT THE SAME TIME.
Does it or doesn’t it have diverters?
on: Apr 30th, 2004, 3:09am you said
Having been a D1 dealer, I do not agree with Gary that D1 is a better made tub, but the Catalina warranty features pro-rated coverage from the date of shipment from the factory, which can be a minus. Catalina also offers full-foam insulation if you desire.
on: Sep 7th, 2004, 9:18pm you said
Actually, I am an English teacher. In my spare time, I do consumer product evaluations and write articles for various magazines and trade journals.
So you where a D1 dealer, a writer, consumer advocate and now teacher? You sound like a very busy man! With school having just started and your other ventures I’m amazed that you have all of the time you do to challenge every brand but Catalina on this forum.
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OoooooKaayyy !!
Stuart........you have MY attention..........what are your suggestions?
Please keep in mind that for the most part it will just be my wife and me in the tub. Yeah, from time to time we will have friends over, but mostly just the 2 of us. I have a somewhat suspect back and I would like a lounger if possible. I'd also like to keep it to around $8K if possible.
What would you say is good fit?
Thanks for your help.
Shoe.
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There are several brands to look at Marquis, D1, Hotspring, Coleman and Caldera. I have a Marquis and love it but am looking at both that and D1 to replace it. I would do a 7 ft like the Marquis Reward, D1 Aurora II or a Hotspring Vangaurd. All of those should fall within your price range.
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shoemaker! I also have been following this form for three/four months and have received a lot of info. yes, people protect their brands, thats ok, it like a chevy/ford form and I'm a mopar guy. this form has helped me choose a jacuzzi tub that I love. There are many others with more bells and other goodies on them, but this form showed me to stay with the priven brands. If fact someoen from advanced spas called tonight, i told them that I would never consider a hot tub that did not have a local dealer to support it. good luck finding the right tub!!!!!!!!!! :)
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Maybe I am just a noobie in the industry (3years) but I think it reflects poorly on a manufacturer when the allow a distributor to purchase their tubs for 3% less and give no mannufacturer warranty.
Now that I have your attention, I only know of one geographical area this is true. It is in North America. Catalina sells to a distributor who in turn warrants the product. This distributor is ruining the reputation of the brand in the state/province in question. It would be all well and good if the distributor did stand behind the product, but he does not.
I am sure many are skeptical of my statement, but I know this to be a fact. I cannot ethically disclose anything more specifics.
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Are you going shopping this weekend Shoeman?
I was kind of hoping for an answer from Marverick on the confusion in all of his past posts.
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Stuart: Your snippets from my posts are out of context. I'll try to clear up some things.
My family owns 2 spas, I have a 5-year old Catalina and my Son's Catalina is a year old.
The ONLY water diverter valves on our Catalinas are for the whirlpool and the geyser jets - one on each pump. Many spas have or need water diverter valves to get adequate pressure to various seating positions in their spas. e.g. D1, Hot Spring and Marquis with its "zone" concept.
I did help a friend out part-time in the summer of 2003(no school) when he opened a spa dealership selling D1. Along with trying to help him sell spas, I wet tested the D1 Chairman II, Diplomat, and Nautilus which I felt were ok spas but very pricey.
A year ago when my son was looking for a spa, his mother and I wet tested several (some with him). He is also 6' 6" and like us, likes deep spas.
We did not like the Hot Spring Sovereign because we had to use diverter valves and it overflowed with just my wife and I wet testing it when we diverted the pressure to the non-lounger side of the tub. She liked the moto massage, I thought all the jets had inadequate pressure. The dealer arranged for us to wet test a Caldera Geneva Utopia which we did with pretty good results except I got wedged under the collar in the corner seat and we felt that the base price was outrageous. This was before the dealer said it would be only $200 more without the collar.
The 3 of us wet tested two Marquis spas. In the Euphoria we tall guys had to sit on the floor to have the water up to the top of our chests. We thought the floor seat was good. The Reward we all felt was just too small and getting up repeatedly to change the diverters was very annoying.
Our first spa purchased in 1976 was made of fiberglass and had a lounger, seating for 6 and an air pump pumping air into a sub floor chamber and up through a hundred or so holes in the floor. We sold it with the house when we moved. None of the subsequently purchased spas was really any more satisfying than this one until we bought our first Catalina.
I have changed my sanitation regimen to include MPS and less dichlor as per Eco One instructions. Prior to using Eco One I had only used dichlor. As many of us know a lot depends on the source water. Ours is somewhat hard and I fill with 3/4 hard and 1/4 soft from the house water heater. I change the water every 4 - 6 months depending on usage. I have a Taylor test kit which I now feel is superfluous because the Eco One keeps everything in balance, and the strips agree with Ms. Taylor.
Regarding income, I became a teacher after I retired from the business world at age 53. I had done the obvious -- invested in rental real estate, and no longer had to work for a living. I teach part time because I can, and it is fun.
Permit me a brief English lesson: in your posts I believe that you are using the words "were" and "where" as if they are the same word. I surely hope that pointing this out does not make you feel bashed.
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The ONLY diverter valves on our Catalinas are for the whirlpool and the geyser jets - one on each pump. Many spas have or need diverter valves to get adequate pressure to various seating positions in their spas. e.g. Marquis with its "zone concept" therapy.
The ONLY diverter valves in the Marquis Euphoria are for the whirlpool and the post jets - one set on each pump. A little objectivity and less prejudice can lead to a better understanding... Or... you can mold your subjectivity to suit any claim.
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What's a "post jet"? BTW, I think the Euphoria is an excellent tub. It just was not comfortable for us freaks in any seat but on the floor, whereas the Catalina is comfortable for tall people in every seat. (Catalina also makes average depth tubs for normal-sized people).
A word or two about therapy: I have seen many posts (some from professionals) that bash whirlpool and volcano jets as worthless gimmicks. I disagree. I am nearly 70 years old and still play golf walking. My legs and lower back usually are sore after a round. I crawl into the spa and get my greatest relief from the whirlpool and geyser jets turned on halfway. The whirlpool is great for foot, upper and lower back massaging, and the geyser (or volcano) jet does a superb job on my thighs and calves.
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Are you going shopping this weekend Shoeman?
I was kind of hoping for an answer from Marverick on the confusion in all of his past posts.
Hey Stu, (is it ok to call you Stu? )
My wife and I just got back from out "local" (about 40 minutes away) Sundance Dealer. I gotta tell you that there is a HUGE difference between the Sundance Spa's and the Catalina Spa's. Hands down the Sundance is a MUCH better tub. We looked at several (6 I think) different models and we liked the Cameo the best. Too bad for us it was DRY so we could not wet test it. But the sales person said if we called ahead and scheduled it that she would fill it and get it ready for us to wet test. Maybe next weekend.
Anyway, I just wanted to let everyone know that the Catalina we looked at was about $900.00 less than that Cameo, but in MHO the Sundance was well worth the extra cash !!
We might go look at the D1 tubs tomorrow ! I'll keep you posted. But for now, the Catalina's are out.
;)
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Iggman,
Where are you in this discussion?
What spa are you leaning to after starting such a healthy discussion concerning Catalina?
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Hey Maverick,
Thanks for clearing up the confusion! Still confused as to whether you were a D1 dealer or a salesman but it really doesn't matter, I'm glad you have had a great experience with your spa and are passionate about it! It's much better for all of us than someone that has had a bad spa experience telling everyone that spas are a nightmare and they shouldn't buy one.
Everybody seems to fit in a spa differently! An example is that I too have a "size" problem, years of boxing and competitive strength sports left me built odd. At only 5'9" I wear a size 52 jacket more for my chest and arm size than shoulders. Needless to say there are no "Big and Short" stores! I like a 7 ft spa that I can reach the foot jets with my short legs but need a deep seat for my long torso. Marquis fits me well (wish I could find a jacket that did!).
Also, thanks for "grading" my post! I, like so many others, depend way to much on spell check and grammar check! BTW, what is the rule for were and where? It's been an awfully long time since I was in school.
Shoemaker,
You certainly may call me Stu everyone has my whole life! Glad to see you doing some competitive shopping. Let me know how it goes and if I can be of assistance.
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Stuart: "Were" is a verb referring to the past tense. Often, it is used as the plural form of "was". "Where" is an adverb normally referring to a location.
For example, where were you yesterday? I was here. You were not. You were somewhere. Where? Some of the people I know were here, some were there.
Regarding the D1 dealership, because I was then a major investor, I considered myself as a co-owner/silent partner with the "dealer" whose background was in spa repair.
He has done quite well in spite of considerable (some of it healthy) competition from some of the other "name" brands.
By the way, one reason we were able to land a D1 dealership was that the nearest D1 dealer is located about 45 miles from here and he was pushing D1 to get a dealership here because he was straining to keep up with warranty repairs on his installed D1s. (Can't resist bashing....bad habit).
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Mav,
You got to stop "bashing" the big boys! You’re starting to sound as myopic as JA. I said before that I have done this for over 1/3 of my life and I just gotta tell you - other than Master Spas (and I think Master even has a better warranty then Catalina) I had more service nightmares with Catalina than any other spa I've ever dealt with (actually Sunrise was the worst "Per Capita" 9 sales, 22 service calls) and I do a very good job of tracking service history!
Yes I had some service issues with D1 in the early years but dealing with them for warranty was a cakewalk compared to trying to deal with Catalina.
As I stated before, it's great that you had a good experience with one or even two Catalina’s but I've had trouble with well over 20 times that many units from the same manufacture.
BTW, I really do appreciate the grammatical lesson, in that realm you do really sound like your the expert!
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Thank you all for your responses, I read them all carefully. After reading and researching, I am deciding between D1 and Sundance for the most part. We still may test hot springs too. thanks again.