Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: zog130 on May 27, 2017, 09:03:06 pm
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Bullfrog A6L gave me a quote for $8000 OTD cash. What is the equivalent Hotspring model? HotSpring is offering free salt water integration for this weekend. How is salt systems? Would you get a Bullfrog or HotSpring? Please advise?
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Bullfrog A6L gave me a quote for $8000 OTD cash. What is the equivalent Hotspring model? HotSpring is offering free salt water integration for this weekend. How is salt systems? Would you get a Bullfrog or HotSpring? Please advise?
Both spas you are considering are good options so I can guarantee 3 responses to this question in this early stage of shopping; some will prefer option A, some will prefer option B and some will want you to consider option C. There is no "better choice" for you at this point until you dig in a little deeper. What you really need to do is to visit the dealers and to see what they have to offer and plan on a wet test. After which you can be specific about what you are seeing, feeling, thinking and get feedback from others of may have been in your shoes and/or are know the products well.
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Should I be concerned about Bullfrog A6L only having 1 pump?
Is the HotSpring Vanguard NXT or Sovereign equivalent to Bullfrog A6L?
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Should I be concerned about Bullfrog A6L only having 1 pump?
Is the HotSpring Vanguard NXT or Sovereign equivalent to Bullfrog A6L?
the A6L would fall somewhere between the 'Prodigy' & 'Sovereign' models from Hot Spring based on size and the fact all of those models mentioned are a single pump, the comparison to a Vanguard would be the model 'A7' from Bullfrog
Because of the less plumbing design the single pump in an A6L isn't a concern, more on the Bullfrog design here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY) If you do think it is a concern than take a look at the dual pump models like the R7 or the above mentioned A7
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can someone recommend what type of jets I should order?
The dealer added the WellSpring Circulating Filtration Pump.
How important is the WellSpring Ozone Purifier System?
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Should I be concerned about Bullfrog A6L only having 1 pump?
Is the HotSpring Vanguard NXT or Sovereign equivalent to Bullfrog A6L?
Sovereign would be a better comp
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Because of the less plumbing design the single pump in an A6L isn't a concern, more on the Bullfrog design here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY) If you do think it is a concern than take a look at the dual pump models like the R7 or the above mentioned A7
Keep in mind the sales pitch video here has ABSOLUTELY nothing in it to help you compare what your looking at.
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can someone recommend what type of jets I should order?
The dealer added the WellSpring Circulating Filtration Pump.
How important is the WellSpring Ozone Purifier System?
JetPaks are subjective of course but my personal favs/best sellers are: Oscillator, NeckMasseuse, Deep Relief, Versa, Rainshower, Pulsator, Wellness, personally if I was buying an A6/A6L I would get: Oscillator/Wellness/NeckMassuese/Rainshower, just my .02 cents. The WellSpring circ pump isn't required, we actually don't sell too many of them, ozone is very subjective, most of our tubs get the salt water system so we don't sell many ozone's either. Good Luck!
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Keep in mind Tman ABSOLUTELY has a weird bias against bullfrog
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Keep in mind Tman ABSOLUTELY has a weird bias against bullfrog
Keep in mind BF has a whole bunch of B*** S*** in their sales pitch. They won't answer hard questions about their BS. But they continue to spew it and sway customers into believing that using their knife to slice bread makes the bread better.
The kool aid they are passing out is so strong that the sales mans jackets turn plaid and the customers can't see anymore.
Any one of you want to have a real debate about why BF IS NOT better PM me. A lot of you have and I am still available to tell you why. They continue to advertise with all out lies and deceit.
Got anymore Sam? I would love to discuss this with facts with you or anyone. But if you are going to continue and call the truth bias I dout you want to.
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Keep in mind Tman ABSOLUTELY has a weird bias against bullfrog
OK Sam, how about you answer some real simple questions about that video. You know the one that was just posted here to "help" the OP, the one filled with untruths, half truths and BS.
Instead of making stuff up (like in the video) and saying that I am biased and then insult me (which is always the next move) even though I never said anything bad about BF EVER!!
Just answer some simple questions. Whenever a bunch of BF salesman come here and try and sell their product on a bunch of BS. Then they get called on it and go hide. Just answer a couple questions that WILL help the OP.
And remember I don't sell BF, or any brand. I am just a dumb plumber.
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Keep in mind Tman ABSOLUTELY has a weird bias against bullfrog
maybe he was traumatized by a bullfrog as a small child? ;D ;D I don't pay attention anymore, It's busy season so I barely have time to post on here anymore let alone follow what some hater is going on about lol
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Keep in mind Tman ABSOLUTELY has a weird bias against bullfrog
maybe he was traumatized by a bullfrog as a small child? ;D ;D I don't pay attention anymore, It's busy season so I barely have time to post on here anymore let alone follow what some hater is going on about lol
Hater of what?
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Keep in mind Tman ABSOLUTELY has a weird bias against bullfrog
Keep in mind BF has a whole bunch of B*** S*** in their sales pitch. They won't answer hard questions about their BS. But they continue to spew it and sway customers into believing that using their knife to slice bread makes the bread better.
The kool aid they are passing out is so strong that the sales mans jackets turn plaid and the customers can't see anymore.
Any one of you want to have a real debate about why BF IS NOT better PM me. A lot of you have and I am still available to tell you why. They continue to advertise with all out lies and deceit.
Got anymore Sam? I would love to discuss this with facts with you or anyone. But if you are going to continue and call the truth bias I dout you want to.
Not sure what BS Tman keeps talking about. I purchased a Bullfrog A7 about 2 years ago and everything the website, brochure, and dealer told me before the purchase have proven to be true. It's in use almost every night and has never had a single issue. Still enjoying the jetpaks, still enjoying the ability to adjust jet power at each seat individually, still enjoying the build quality, etc.
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Not sure what BS Tman keeps talking about. I purchased a Bullfrog A7 about 2 years ago and everything the website, brochure, and dealer told me before the purchase have proven to be true. It's in use almost every night and has never had a single issue. Still enjoying the jetpaks, still enjoying the ability to adjust jet power at each seat individually, still enjoying the build quality, etc.
Here let me help you bporter22
What tub is BF using in the video posted above to substantiate the claim of "90 percent less plumbing than most spas"
If your going to sell tubs with lies you loose, and put yourself in a plaid jacket club.
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Not sure what BS Tman keeps talking about. I purchased a Bullfrog A7 about 2 years ago and everything the website, brochure, and dealer told me before the purchase have proven to be true. It's in use almost every night and has never had a single issue. Still enjoying the jetpaks, still enjoying the ability to adjust jet power at each seat individually, still enjoying the build quality, etc.
Here let me help you bporter22
What tub is BF using in the video posted above to substantiate the claim of "90 percent less plumbing than most spas"
If your going to sell tubs with lies you loose, and put yourself in a plaid jacket club.
I couldn't care less which specific tub they used in the video because I looked inside many different tubs when I was researching and they all had plumbing going everywhere. Then I looked inside a Bullfrog and indeed there was significantly less plumbing. So whether or not it was exactly 90% less was irrelevant to me since I could see with my own eyes that the marketing pitch was essentially correct.
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does anyone have feedback on the actual question Bullfrog vs HotSpring?
I have seen some bad reviews lately on Hot Spring. I just saw a Bullfrog wasn't overly impressed with the sales pitch.
Basically said: less plumbing, made of plastic (which is better for LI person), and customize the higher end version. but didn't really explain much.
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does anyone have feedback on the actual question Bullfrog vs HotSpring?
I have seen some bad reviews lately on Hot Spring. I just saw a Bullfrog wasn't overly impressed with the sales pitch.
Basically said: less plumbing, made of plastic (which is better for LI person), and customize the higher end version. but didn't really explain much.
Both are great brands. Wet test if you can and pick the one that suits you best. Make sure you are comfortable with the dealer, the price, etc. Either brand is an excellent choice.
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Could one of the resident BF reps contact corporate and ask them to replace "90% less plumbing" with "butt-load less plumbing"?
Maybe that would keep Tman from ranting anytime someone says something positive about BF.
My A7L has 98 jets, 76 are contained within the jetpacks, that calculates to exactly a ship-load better odds of not having a shell leak.
BTW - there is also a ship-ton of power at ALL seats at ALL times, try that with most other brands....
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does anyone have feedback on the actual question Bullfrog vs HotSpring?
I have seen some bad reviews lately on Hot Spring. I just saw a Bullfrog wasn't overly impressed with the sales pitch.
Basically said: less plumbing, made of plastic (which is better for LI person), and customize the higher end version. but didn't really explain much.
Both good tubs that I would consider premium lines. Where did you see bad reviews of Hot Spring? I do know Watkins does a good job of standing behind there product. I'm a Caldera and Marquis dealer so on the Caldera side and I deal with Watkins factory a lot. Bullfrog I would classify as different not better just different
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I found out I have marquis in my area, how does that rank?
Regarding hot springs in random places. However the dealer near me got raving reviews. And tons of reviews.
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Could one of the resident BF reps contact corporate and ask them to replace "90% less plumbing" with "butt-load less plumbing"?
Maybe that would keep Tman from ranting anytime someone says something positive about BF.
My A7L has 98 jets, 76 are contained within the jetpacks, that calculates to exactly a ship-load better odds of not having a shell leak.
BTW - there is also a ship-ton of power at ALL seats at ALL times, try that with most other brands....
There's more questions from me contained in that BS video. But I can't even get an answer to that one.
Here's another. By putting the manifold (the noisiest part of any tub) inside the vessel closer to your ears in the form of a "jet pac"would that not make it noisier closer to your ears?
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Could one of the resident BF reps contact corporate and ask them to replace "90% less plumbing" with "butt-load less plumbing"?
Maybe that would keep Tman from ranting anytime someone says something positive about BF.
My A7L has 98 jets, 76 are contained within the jetpacks, that calculates to exactly a ship-load better odds of not having a shell leak.
BTW - there is also a ship-ton of power at ALL seats at ALL times, try that with most other brands....
There's more questions from me contained in that BS video. But I can't even get an answer to that one.
Here's another. By putting the manifold (the noisiest part of any tub) inside the vessel closer to your ears in the form of a "jet pac"would that not make it noisier closer to your ears?
You truly have no clue about bullfrog spa's! You think you do being a plumber and all, but you really don't.
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Marquis makes a very good product, especially their Signature series. In my opinion you are looking at the 3 best manufacturers. Research your dealer because they can be as important as the spa you choose. Then try out some spas and get whats best for you.
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Could one of the resident BF reps contact corporate and ask them to replace "90% less plumbing" with "butt-load less plumbing"?
Maybe that would keep Tman from ranting anytime someone says something positive about BF.
My A7L has 98 jets, 76 are contained within the jetpacks, that calculates to exactly a ship-load better odds of not having a shell leak.
BTW - there is also a ship-ton of power at ALL seats at ALL times, try that with most other brands....
There's more questions from me contained in that BS video. But I can't even get an answer to that one.
Here's another. By putting the manifold (the noisiest part of any tub) inside the vessel closer to your ears in the form of a "jet pac"would that not make it noisier closer to your ears?
You truly have no clue about bullfrog spa's! You think you do being a plumber and all, but you really don't.
Educate me. Tell me how less plumbing relates to a better feel? Better longevity? Better efficiency?
I will give you this, less chance for a leak. But if 98% of the leaks I fix are in the equipment bay, how much has bf improved that for this dumb plumber?
I have no clue.
If a loaf of bread is sliced in two different directions it tastes the same.
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I have a neck blaster pack which makes a lot of surface water noise, if the waterfall is on the sound level is higher yet. No unusual sounds other than relaxing water noise.
I normally watch baseball or hockey with the sound off while soaking.
I get what you're saying about advertising but all brands do it to pump features like salt systems, inline feeders and magic bubbles. BF attaches a 90% claim on theirs and they probably should not as it implies specific comparisons between 2 spas without definition of the spas.
I doubt that the less plumbing affects the feel or longevity but it definitely effects efficiency as the 2 pumps blow a bunch of water out of the 98 jets simultaneously.
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I have a neck blaster pack which makes a lot of surface water noise, if the waterfall is on the sound level is higher yet. No unusual sounds other than relaxing water noise.
I normally watch baseball or hockey with the sound off while soaking.
I get what you're saying about advertising but all brands do it to pump features like salt systems, inline feeders and magic bubbles. BF attaches a 90% claim on theirs and they probably should not as it implies specific comparisons between 2 spas without definition of the spas.
I doubt that the less plumbing affects the feel or longevity but it definitely effects efficiency as the 2 pumps blow a bunch of water out of the 98 jets simultaneously.
And I don't hold bias to any brand that uses BS to sell tubs. All manufacturers do it. As I've said before BF does not hold an exclusive to BS sales practices and I have called plenty of others out over the years.
Just seems like BF is the latest manufacturer to bomb the PUBLIC boards with videos and bull about how there knife makes the bread taste better.
No diverter valves, full power at all the jets. If you wanted to break this down you could say by putting a diverter on each jet pac you are actually increasing the chance of a problem with a diverter, or putting stress on the pumps that will reduce their longevity. Even though we all are smart enough to figure out that if you divert water to one jet pac then divert to another hooked to the same pump. The water flow WILL be reduced, unless there is a pump for each pac.
All I am saying, and I have warned BF sales before. If I see this or any BS video from BF or any manufacturer used to try and sell tubs on a public forum that has UNBIASED semi educated people as members also, I will call it out. Every time.
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I have a neck blaster pack which makes a lot of surface water noise, if the waterfall is on the sound level is higher yet. No unusual sounds other than relaxing water noise.
I normally watch baseball or hockey with the sound off while soaking.
I get what you're saying about advertising but all brands do it to pump features like salt systems, inline feeders and magic bubbles. BF attaches a 90% claim on theirs and they probably should not as it implies specific comparisons between 2 spas without definition of the spas.
I doubt that the less plumbing affects the feel or longevity but it definitely effects efficiency as the 2 pumps blow a bunch of water out of the 98 jets simultaneously.
And I don't hold bias to any brand that uses BS to sell tubs. All manufacturers do it. As I've said before BF does not hold an exclusive to BS sales practices and I have called plenty of others out over the years.
Just seems like BF is the latest manufacturer to bomb the PUBLIC boards with videos and bull about how there knife makes the bread taste better.
No diverter valves, full power at all the jets. If you wanted to break this down you could say by putting a diverter on each jet pac you are actually increasing the chance of a problem with a diverter, or putting stress on the pumps that will reduce their longevity. Even though we all are smart enough to figure out that if you divert water to one jet pac then divert to another hooked to the same pump. The water flow WILL be reduced, unless there is a pump for each pac.
All I am saying, and I have warned BF sales before. If I see this or any BS video from BF or any manufacturer used to try and sell tubs on a public forum that has UNBIASED semi educated people as members also, I will call it out. Every time.
And I am sure that will have a huge impact on Bullfrogs sales numbers. ::)
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I know there is all this debate regarding the brands. I like both Hot Spring and BF, and have the privilege of selling both.
In the last 2-3 years of doing so, I can say the warranty redemption rate of either brand is roughly around 2-3% in my store. They are both relatively easy for us to deal with, although Bullfrog is less organized and pays worse for warranty reimbursements, but a good dealer should easily cover up those issues.
One brand isn't better than the other, it does come down to personal preference and dealer support. No comment on Marquis, my experience is very limited with them.
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I know there is all this debate regarding the brands. I like both Hot Spring and BF, and have the privilege of selling both.
I don't sell them but also like both brands.
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I know there is all this debate regarding the brands. I like both Hot Spring and BF, and have the privilege of selling both.
I don't sell them but also like both brands.
???
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I found out I have marquis in my area, how does that rank?
Regarding hot springs in random places. However the dealer near me got raving reviews. And tons of reviews.
Marquis is a fine brand. You'd be remiss if you didn't give them a chance.
All three brands tend to be viewed in a more favorable light than many other manufacturers in the industry by hot tub insiders so you know you're in the realm of quality.
But who cares what anyone says (including me!)- You're the one buying. Find a few units that feel good to you: Both jet pressure and ergonomically, and be sure the local dealer is of quality. Find a price point that works and pare down from there. Those are the most important aspects. There is indeed a lot of salesmanship in this industry- because there is so few ways to differentiate brands and products. Thus- You get people mired in things that are ancillary. I once saw a Master Spas salesman put a cell phone on the tub's shell and say "look at how the tub doesn't vibrate when its running at full speed." Thats not a knock at all on Master Spas. It's just to show how far people will go to present their product in a different aspect, or to change the narrative to suit their product.
Don't bury the lede.
The lede is: What is comfortable, what feels good, and who are you buying from.
Get that squared, then visit the details.
Good luck moving forward.
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Thank you! Created a spreadsheet will start my search this weekend! Love how people are so helpful
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does anyone have feedback on the actual question Bullfrog vs HotSpring?
I have seen some bad reviews lately on Hot Spring. I just saw a Bullfrog wasn't overly impressed with the sales pitch.
Basically said: less plumbing, made of plastic (which is better for LI person), and customize the higher end version. but didn't really explain much.
I tested multiple models from both brands. I also tested an Artesian.
For me and my wife, it came down to what felt the best. She was prepared to drop over 17k on a HotSpring Grandee, but we ended up getting a Bullfrog A8L for 13.5k because it just felt better. No gimmicks, no promises, no BS.
If you are looking for a good tub, stick with the major players and you really can't go wrong.
Who knows, maybe a wet test ends up saving you a bunch of money. ;)
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does anyone have feedback on the actual question Bullfrog vs HotSpring?
I have seen some bad reviews lately on Hot Spring. I just saw a Bullfrog wasn't overly impressed with the sales pitch.
Basically said: less plumbing, made of plastic (which is better for LI person), and customize the higher end version. but didn't really explain much.
I tested multiple models from both brands. I also tested an Artesian.
For me and my wife, it came down to what felt the best. She was prepared to drop over 17k on a HotSpring Grandee, but we ended up getting a Bullfrog A8L for 13.5k because it just felt better. No gimmicks, no promises, no BS.
If you are looking for a good tub, stick with the major players and you really can't go wrong.
Who knows, maybe a wet test ends up saving you a bunch of money. ;)
Congrats!
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Nice! Congrats on a great hot tub. Please report back in awhile after you've had a chance to use it a bit.
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does anyone have feedback on the actual question Bullfrog vs HotSpring?
I have seen some bad reviews lately on Hot Spring. I just saw a Bullfrog wasn't overly impressed with the sales pitch.
Basically said: less plumbing, made of plastic (which is better for LI person), and customize the higher end version. but didn't really explain much.
I tested multiple models from both brands. I also tested an Artesian.
For me and my wife, it came down to what felt the best. She was prepared to drop over 17k on a HotSpring Grandee, but we ended up getting a Bullfrog A8L for 13.5k because it just felt better. No gimmicks, no promises, no BS.
If you are looking for a good tub, stick with the major players and you really can't go wrong.
Who knows, maybe a wet test ends up saving you a bunch of money. ;)
Good Choice! I'm sure you'll enjoy it for years to come
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I have owned both and I would buy a HotSprings spa hands down over the Bull frog. we have had our bull frog for a little over a year and have had nothing but problems, no lemon law on spas... we had our Hotsprings over 20 years and had no mechanical issues what so ever except at about 18 years had to have the ozone part replaced. We moved and had to leave the HotSprings Spa as part of the sale of our house. Onte thing with the hotsprings is that the sterio was not a good idea... Electronics and water are not a good thing. The bells and whistles of the exchangeable jet packs are what attracted us to bull frog and to be honest once we found the seats and packs we liked we have not moved them.
DONT BUY A BULL FROG
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I choose the marquis V94l based on comfort a nd price did everything the hot springs did for 4k less. My local Bullfrog dealer prices everything at full retail 15500 for 8L so they were a non starter.
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I have owned both and I would buy a HotSprings spa hands down over the Bull frog. we have had our bull frog for a little over a year and have had nothing but problems, no lemon law on spas... we had our Hotsprings over 20 years and had no mechanical issues what so ever except at about 18 years had to have the ozone part replaced. We moved and had to leave the HotSprings Spa as part of the sale of our house. Onte thing with the hotsprings is that the sterio was not a good idea... Electronics and water are not a good thing. The bells and whistles of the exchangeable jet packs are what attracted us to bull frog and to be honest once we found the seats and packs we liked we have not moved them.
DONT BUY A BULL FROG
What kind of problems?
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I have owned both and I would buy a HotSprings spa hands down over the Bull frog. we have had our bull frog for a little over a year and have had nothing but problems, no lemon law on spas... we had our Hotsprings over 20 years and had no mechanical issues what so ever except at about 18 years had to have the ozone part replaced. We moved and had to leave the HotSprings Spa as part of the sale of our house. Onte thing with the hotsprings is that the sterio was not a good idea... Electronics and water are not a good thing. The bells and whistles of the exchangeable jet packs are what attracted us to bull frog and to be honest once we found the seats and packs we liked we have not moved them.
DONT BUY A BULL FROG
What exactly are the problems that you have had? I'm sorry that your experience has been poor but overall Bullfrog has a fantastic reputation for quality, reliability, and innovation. They have a great warranty and will definitely address any issues that arise.
Also, I doubt anyone will constantly move the packs around. You said it perfect in your post. Once you found the seats and packs that you liked, you haven't moved them. The fact that you were able to choose the packs that you like and play with it until you got it just right for you is the real benefit.
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Also, I doubt anyone will constantly move the packs around. You said it perfect in your post. Once you found the seats and packs that you liked, you haven't moved them. The fact that you were able to choose the packs that you like and play with it until you got it just right for you is the real benefit.
That's what I always said. Forget all the other B*** S*** about less plumbing and full power at all the jets and sell on the only REAL true benefit.
Glad you guys are coming around.
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I tend to move my jetpaks from time to time. My favorite seat is the lounger because it has jets for both my legs and feet. That way I can get different kinds of massage on my back - usually switch between the rainshower and oscillator. My other jetpak is the neck blaster. Mine is a 2013 and have been happy with its performance and would recommend the brand. For Disappointed I would recommend to keep a log of all your service calls and bring it to your dealer. We had something similar happen with another brand where we kept on having issues, some repeat, brought the list to our dealer, they compared it with theirs and went to the manufacturer about it. The manufacturer came through for us and all was well at the end. Can't say if that is what BF will do. Since I haven't had any issues (and want to keep it that way) cannot talk towards service and warranty work. Good luck!
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First post coming here and says I had all kinds of problems don't buy a Bullfrog. Something fishy here... ;)