Hot Tub Forum
Brand Specific Forums => Bullfrog Spas => Topic started by: Sirlancelot53 on May 06, 2017, 12:15:25 pm
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Hi everyone. This site is terrific for first time hot tub owners - appreciate all the insight, guidance and recommendations. I'll be wet testing a 2017 Bullfrog R7 this weekend. The dealer quoted me a price of $7,250 which includes cover, stairs, chemicals and delivery. The sales tax is not included in the price, but I wanted to get pricing opinions excluding sales tax for apples to apples comparisons with other R7 buyers and dealers. The tub is their floor model. Also, since my son served in the military (Army), we're eligible for the $500 Military Discount that Bullfrog provides to active and retired military and their families (rebate form with supporting documentation gets submitted to Bullfrog Corporate offices in Utah), so out the door price, excluding tax is $6,750. Is this a good price, assuming everything checks out OK with the tub appearance and the JetPacks? Thanks in advance for your feedback.
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snatch it up, it's a "giveaway price" I wouldn't even consider selling an R7 for that unless it was freight damaged
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Way CHEAPER than the price i was quoted. BUT, I just wet tested it today and it is off my list. Was not a fan. Make sure you sit in it first!
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Um yeah, get in the car and go buy that spa right now! At that price you will learn to love it, even if you don't..
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Hot tubs are very personal. You either buy the right one for you which makes you want to get in and enjoy some hydrotherapy or you get a great deal and just have a box of swirling hot water. We always recommend wet testing to see if it's right for you. And if you only look at one how do you know if there's better out there for you? You can get a box of swirling hot water for a lot less than 6750.
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Were not talking about just a swirling box of water here at that price. If it had been any other comparable, quality spa at that price vs an average price of 9500.00 and up, I would have said go buy it as well.
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Were not talking about just a swirling box of water here at that price. If it had been any other comparable, quality spa at that price vs an average price of 9500.00 and up, I would have said go buy it as well.
Might be to me.......
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Were not talking about just a swirling box of water here at that price. If it had been any other comparable, quality spa at that price vs an average price of 9500.00 and up, I would have said go buy it as well.
Might be to me.......
Well your special.
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Yeah, that price is ridiculous. That would even be a fantastic deal for the next lower model R6 or R6L. No offense but I almost don't even believe it. That guy won't stay in business very long selling spas that cheap.
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Yeah, that price is ridiculous. That would even be a fantastic deal for the next lower model R6 or R6L. No offense but I almost don't even believe it. That guy won't stay in business very long selling spas that cheap.
I know...I'm contemplating getting my LLC and officially going into 'business development & training' :-)
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Thanks for the responses. Completed the wet test and everything checked out in perfect working order. Dealer explained to me that the hot tub sent from the manufacturer didn't have the stereo/speakers/Bluetooth that they had requested for their showroom floor. Therefore, they offered me this clearance price in order to get it off their floor. I wasn't complaining - plus, as others have weighed-in, the package price left little if any profit margin. This dealer has over 7-spa stores in the Western PA market and has an excellent sales and service track record. My opinion, I lucked out (right time, right place to buy a hot tub) so I bought the "technically advanced swirling box of water!"
As an FYI, the JetPaks consisted of Bullfrog's top sellers - Neckblaster, Wellness, Oscillator and RainShower. Can't wait for the delivery and to transition from a hot tub newbie to a hot tub veteran. Cheers!
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Thanks for the responses. Completed the wet test and everything checked out in perfect working order. Dealer explained to me that the hot tub sent from the manufacturer didn't have the stereo/speakers/Bluetooth that they had requested for their showroom floor. Therefore, they offered me this clearance price in order to get it off their floor. I wasn't complaining - plus, as others have weighed-in, the package price left little if any profit margin. This dealer has over 7-spa stores in the Western PA market and has an excellent sales and service track record. My opinion, I lucked out (right time, right place to buy a hot tub) so I bought the "technically advanced swirling box of water!"
As an FYI, the JetPaks consisted of Bullfrog's top sellers - Neckblaster, Wellness, Oscillator and RainShower. Can't wait for the delivery and to transition from a hot tub newbie to a hot tub veteran. Cheers!
I am in Western PA. If you don't mind sharing info as to the dealer? Thanks and Congrats on the "STEAL"!
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Thanks for the responses. Completed the wet test and everything checked out in perfect working order. Dealer explained to me that the hot tub sent from the manufacturer didn't have the stereo/speakers/Bluetooth that they had requested for their showroom floor. Therefore, they offered me this clearance price in order to get it off their floor. I wasn't complaining - plus, as others have weighed-in, the package price left little if any profit margin. This dealer has over 7-spa stores in the Western PA market and has an excellent sales and service track record. My opinion, I lucked out (right time, right place to buy a hot tub) so I bought the "technically advanced swirling box of water!"
As an FYI, the JetPaks consisted of Bullfrog's top sellers - Neckblaster, Wellness, Oscillator and RainShower. Can't wait for the delivery and to transition from a hot tub newbie to a hot tub veteran. Cheers!
Swirling box of water as Tman thinks or not, you got a really great deal that you should feel good about! Congrats on the purchase. And thanks to you son for his service! Myself USN 81 to 87 ;)
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Thanks for the responses. Completed the wet test and everything checked out in perfect working order. Dealer explained to me that the hot tub sent from the manufacturer didn't have the stereo/speakers/Bluetooth that they had requested for their showroom floor. Therefore, they offered me this clearance price in order to get it off their floor. I wasn't complaining - plus, as others have weighed-in, the package price left little if any profit margin. This dealer has over 7-spa stores in the Western PA market and has an excellent sales and service track record. My opinion, I lucked out (right time, right place to buy a hot tub) so I bought the "technically advanced swirling box of water!"
As an FYI, the JetPaks consisted of Bullfrog's top sellers - Neckblaster, Wellness, Oscillator and RainShower. Can't wait for the delivery and to transition from a hot tub newbie to a hot tub veteran. Cheers!
Did you compare the feel, seating, fit and finish and the volume during operation against any other brands?
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Tman - if you were interested in buying either a BMW 535xi, Mercedes E300, or Audi A6 and you received an offer you couldn't refuse from your initial test drive at the first dealer, would you even bother test driving the other cars? Some would, just for the fun of it. I chose not to because it would have been a waste of my time and that of the other salesmen.
Myself, my wife and son all wet tested the R7 on Sunday (that sounds a little disturbing). Loved the fit, feel, form and function of the Bullfrog model and the multiple varying JetPaks were awesome! Add that to an exceptionally strong price (based on prior feedback from this forum) and a solid, reputable dealer, and I was one and done with the Bullfrog R7 going into my backyard patio in 10-days. All good!
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Tman - if you were interested in buying either a BMW 535xi, Mercedes E300, or Audi A6 and you received an offer you couldn't refuse from your initial test drive at the first dealer, would you even bother test driving the other cars? Some would, just for the fun of it. I chose not to because it would have been a waste of my time and that of the other salesmen.
Myself, my wife and son all wet tested the R7 on Sunday (that sounds a little disturbing). Loved the fit, feel, form and function of the Bullfrog model and the multiple varying JetPaks were awesome! Add that to an exceptionally strong price (based on prior feedback from this forum) and a solid, reputable dealer, and I was one and done with the Bullfrog R7 going into my backyard patio in 10-days. All good!
If there was a better car at just as good a price I would test drive, no matter what the brand.
If someone you never met told you you were getting a great deal would you check it against others? What if other brands feel better and are just as good or an even better deal? That doesn't matter to you? And that's OK. I hope it's OK??? But you won't know.
And FYI I would never own any of those cars. Have you had one? If you have and it went to the shop you'd understand.
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Tman - if you were interested in buying either a BMW 535xi, Mercedes E300, or Audi A6 and you received an offer you couldn't refuse from your initial test drive at the first dealer, would you even bother test driving the other cars? Some would, just for the fun of it. I chose not to because it would have been a waste of my time and that of the other salesmen.
Myself, my wife and son all wet tested the R7 on Sunday (that sounds a little disturbing). Loved the fit, feel, form and function of the Bullfrog model and the multiple varying JetPaks were awesome! Add that to an exceptionally strong price (based on prior feedback from this forum) and a solid, reputable dealer, and I was one and done with the Bullfrog R7 going into my backyard patio in 10-days. All good!
Awesome Deal! Awesome Spa! JetPaks really do offer some incredible different massage types, AND they'll be more released as years go buy so you can always purchase another down the road if they come out with another design you love. Don't let the negatives get you down, you got a great tub and a very great price from what you described as a great dealer...win, win, win :-)
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Not to be argumentative, but you're missing the point here.
1. The cars identified were depicted to represent comparable spas - high end, but not ultra high end, and certainly not economy/budget.
2. Being offered a deal you can't refuse implies that you already know that the other models would not be able to offer a comparable price. Highly improbable that two models (let alone three) have prices that offer profit margins of 0% or below cost.
3. If one person said I was getting a great deal, I would be skeptical. If many credible and legitimate people (no bs-snake oil types) said I was getting a great deal, I would have a high degree of confidence I was indeed getting a great deal. No need to verify and validate.
4. A luxury car owner understands the pitfalls of ownership and service. That's why a good mechanic (not employed by a dealership) is a wise and prudent investment! Trust me on this one.
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Not to be argumentative, but you're missing the point here.
1. The cars identified were depicted to represent comparable spas - high end, but not ultra high end, and certainly not economy/budget.
2. Being offered a deal you can't refuse implies that you already know that the other models would not be able to offer a comparable price. Highly improbable that two models (let alone three) have prices that offer profit margins of 0% or below cost.
3. If one person said I was getting a great deal, I would be skeptical. If many credible and legitimate people (no bs-snake oil types) said I was getting a great deal, I would have a high degree of confidence I was indeed getting a great deal. No need to verify and validate.
4. A luxury car owner understands the pitfalls of ownership and service. That's why a good mechanic (not employed by a dealership) is a wise and prudent investment! Trust me on this one.
I manage a fleet of 166 vehicles, trust me I know more about a good mechanic than most.
It's just disappointing that you didn't compare the "feel" to others. A lot of people think this is how a hot tub feels and think they all feel the same. They don't. And BF is far from having the best feel IMO. Yes, I've soaked in several and even a new one.
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Sirlancealot - what part of Western PA? I am in Mars, PA. I was just curious as to what dealer you were dealing with?
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Pool City - they're the only authorized Bullfrog dealers in the Pittsburgh market. Pool City's GM is a really good guy - high degree of integrity and honesty. I bought from the Cranberry location.
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Not to be argumentative, but you're missing the point here.
1. The cars identified were depicted to represent comparable spas - high end, but not ultra high end, and certainly not economy/budget.
2. Being offered a deal you can't refuse implies that you already know that the other models would not be able to offer a comparable price. Highly improbable that two models (let alone three) have prices that offer profit margins of 0% or below cost.
3. If one person said I was getting a great deal, I would be skeptical. If many credible and legitimate people (no bs-snake oil types) said I was getting a great deal, I would have a high degree of confidence I was indeed getting a great deal. No need to verify and validate.
4. A luxury car owner understands the pitfalls of ownership and service. That's why a good mechanic (not employed by a dealership) is a wise and prudent investment! Trust me on this one.
I manage a fleet of 166 vehicles, trust me I know more about a good mechanic than most.
It's just disappointing that you didn't compare the "feel" to others. A lot of people think this is how a hot tub feels and think they all feel the same. They don't. And BF is far from having the best feel IMO. Yes, I've soaked in several and even a new one.
IMO says a lot there, not everyone is you. And honestly if you were not so biased, but just the average non Tman Joe plumber guy off the street your opinion towards Bullfrog would probably be different.
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Pool City - they're the only authorized Bullfrog dealers in the Pittsburgh market. Pool City's GM is a really good guy - high degree of integrity and honesty. I bought from the Cranberry location.
Thanks! I was dealing with Guy there. Still searching myself though...
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IMO says a lot there, not everyone is you. And honestly if you were not so biased, but just the average non Tman Joe plumber guy off the street your opinion towards Bullfrog would probably be different.
BF makes a fine tub. Just not the best. I have soaked in more different brands than most people.
The thing about BF I don't like is the engineering flaws designed in instead of out and the absolute 100% BS sales on their web site. The simple questions I ask never get answered because you can't answer them because they will expose the flaws and BS on the web site.
Would you like me to ask them again? Maybe you can answer them this time?
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IMO says a lot there, not everyone is you. And honestly if you were not so biased, but just the average non Tman Joe plumber guy off the street your opinion towards Bullfrog would probably be different.
BF makes a fine tub. Just not the best. I have soaked in more different brands than most people.
The thing about BF I don't like is the engineering flaws designed in instead of out and the absolute 100% BS sales on their web site. The simple questions I ask never get answered because you can't answer them because they will expose the flaws and BS on the web site.
Would you like me to ask them again? Maybe you can answer them this time?
Any question we answer you won't believe, so basically it's like beating a dead horse with you at this point.
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Any question we answer you won't believe, so basically it's like beating a dead horse with you at this point.
What tub did BF use to make there comparison in the 90% less plumbing claim on their web site?
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Any question we answer you won't believe, so basically it's like beating a dead horse with you at this point.
What tub did BF use to make there comparison in the 90% less plumbing claim on their web site?
I have no idea, I will make a call today if I get a chance today. Who's do you think they used?
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Tman is so ridiculous. I swear, the founder of Bullfrog must have banged his sister....... I have 5 different brands filled on my floor. We've had hundreds of people wet test and get in side by side to compare Bullfrog to other brands. A large majority choose Bullfrog. These same people also wet test at other dealers for comparison. Bullfrog's jets feel great! Especially the oscillator and rainshower which have no equivalent in other spas. I've been doing this for over 20 years. I've worked with most of the big dogs, including Hot Spring. Bullfrog deserves to be in the discussion when talking about the best. They may not be right for everyone, but they are certainly worthy of comparing to any other "top of the line" spa.
Your bias is old and tired at this point.
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Tman is so ridiculous. I swear, the founder of Bullfrog must have banged his sister....... I have 5 different brands filled on my floor. We've had hundreds of people wet test and get in side by side to compare Bullfrog to other brands. A large majority choose Bullfrog. These same people also wet test at other dealers for comparison. Bullfrog's jets feel great! Especially the oscillator and rainshower which have no equivalent in other spas. I've been doing this for over 20 years. I've worked with most of the big dogs, including Hot Spring. Bullfrog deserves to be in the discussion when talking about the best. They may not be right for everyone, but they are certainly worthy of comparing to any other "top of the line" spa.
Your bias is old and tired at this point.
Come on guys, don't do this again. You can claim how good they are, I don't care. No where in my posts do I say BF is a piece of shit!!! Matter of fact you will see more praise for it over several brands in ALL of my posts.
Just because no one else has the guts to call out any manufacturers B*** S*** sales crap does not make me wrong.
And once again I will say.....BF does not have exclusive rights to the BS spewing from manufacturers.
Any idea on the make and model of that flipped over tub yet? And I'm surprised the many quality tub builders out there aren't upset of your portrayal of there craftsmanship in your advertising videos. Call your BF guy and have him contact me in PM if he'd like to answer off the record. I will keep it off the record. I wana know how many jets and pumps were on the tub in the photos and video that you say a certain model of your brand tub has 90% less plumbing than?. That is what is selling your tubs also, along with some innovation and optional jet pacs. That's a dishonest sales tactic. Take it down. Sell on what you got going for you. The option of choosing what corners to have what pacs in up front. Change the feel to what you like before you buy. Keep it about the feel.
You can end the thread. The one I steered to a comparison of several brands to better your chance of the best feel for you Lance the customer. The one you guys made into a thread about my opinion of BF. And assumed a lot. You don't have to apologize, just get out while you still can.
I think the consumer learned something. I'm glad Lance got a good deal on a tub. Keep us in your honeymoon. Start a new thread for each topic, sanitation strategy/programming/jet pac comparison. So these unproductive threads go away.
Anyone who wants to take this off the main forum for friendly debate is always welcome in PM.
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Tman is so ridiculous. I swear, the founder of Bullfrog must have banged his sister....... I have 5 different brands filled on my floor. We've had hundreds of people wet test and get in side by side to compare Bullfrog to other brands. A large majority choose Bullfrog. These same people also wet test at other dealers for comparison. Bullfrog's jets feel great! Especially the oscillator and rainshower which have no equivalent in other spas. I've been doing this for over 20 years. I've worked with most of the big dogs, including Hot Spring. Bullfrog deserves to be in the discussion when talking about the best. They may not be right for everyone, but they are certainly worthy of comparing to any other "top of the line" spa.
Your bias is old and tired at this point.
Come on guys, don't do this again. You can claim how good they are, I don't care. No where in my posts do I say BF is a piece of shit!!! Matter of fact you will see more praise for it over several brands in ALL of my posts.
Just because no one else has the guts to call out any manufacturers B*** S*** sales crap does not make me wrong.
And once again I will say.....BF does not have exclusive rights to the BS spewing from manufacturers.
Any idea on the make and model of that flipped over tub yet? And I'm surprised the many quality tub builders out there aren't upset of your portrayal of there craftsmanship in your advertising videos. Call your BF guy and have him contact me in PM if he'd like to answer off the record. I will keep it off the record. I wana know how many jets and pumps were on the tub in the photos and video that you say a certain model of your brand tub has 90% less plumbing than?. That is what is selling your tubs also, along with some innovation and optional jet pacs. That's a dishonest sales tactic. Take it down. Sell on what you got going for you. The option of choosing what corners to have what pacs in up front. Change the feel to what you like before you buy. Keep it about the feel.
You can end the thread. The one I steered to a comparison of several brands to better your chance of the best feel for you Lance the customer. The one you guys made into a thread about my opinion of BF. And assumed a lot. You don't have to apologize, just get out while you still can.
I think the consumer learned something. I'm glad Lance got a good deal on a tub. Keep us in your honeymoon. Start a new thread for each topic, sanitation strategy/programming/jet pac comparison. So these unproductive threads go away.
Anyone who wants to take this off the main forum for friendly debate is always welcome in PM.
I still appreciate your comments Tman... for what it is worth :)
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Thanks Tman for being open-minded (versus the alternative) on this discussion. All's fair in love, war and hot tub debates on best models!
What's confusing to me as a "hot tub buyer newbie" and probably many others is the vitriol of one manufacturer (i.e. Bullfrog) being subjected to criticism on this forum as compared to a competitor (Hot Springs, Jacuzzi, Dimension One, etc). We're all trying to get a tub that fits our needs at a great price.
I understand the salesmanship and legitimate metrics (my tub is better than yours is because of XYZ), but why isn't there any validation of what constitutes an "average vs good vs great" price on tub models? More specifically, why hasn't there been more pricing transparency on hot tubs, like there has been in other industries, like automotive? Dealers, your thoughts are welcomed on this one.
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Thanks Tman for being open-minded (versus the alternative) on this discussion. All's fair in love, war and hot tub debates on best models!
What's confusing to me as a "hot tub buyer newbie" and probably many others is the vitriol of one manufacturer (i.e. Bullfrog) being subjected to criticism on this forum as compared to a competitor (Hot Springs, Jacuzzi, Dimension One, etc). We're all trying to get a tub that fits our needs at a great price.
I understand the salesmanship and legitimate metrics (my tub is better than yours is because of XYZ), but why isn't there any validation of what constitutes an "average vs good vs great" price on tub models? More specifically, why hasn't there been more pricing transparency on hot tubs, like there has been in other industries, like automotive? Dealers, your thoughts are welcomed on this one.
Price wars are driven by multiple access points to the same product. How many Hot Spring dealers are in the same town? Territorial sales it what keeps pricing up and a secret. A city like Chicago will have 10-20 dealers that sell Honda cars. But only 1-2 that sell Hot Springs hot tubs. Plus just about any auto dealer will sell any model of used car. And there are auctions set up where you have to be a dealer to buy any brand up for auction. And there are millions and millions of cars and only hundreds of thousands of hot tubs. And cars last longer.
And keep in mind my ire for calling manufacturers on BS is not limited to BF. I call out any manufacturer that slings it. BF is just the latest to use a public information forum to sling it. And if it's any consultation the BF sales folks are usually driven by consumers that are skewed in their decision by buying into the BS.
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Thanks Tman for being open-minded (versus the alternative) on this discussion. All's fair in love, war and hot tub debates on best models!
What's confusing to me as a "hot tub buyer newbie" and probably many others is the vitriol of one manufacturer (i.e. Bullfrog) being subjected to criticism on this forum as compared to a competitor (Hot Springs, Jacuzzi, Dimension One, etc). We're all trying to get a tub that fits our needs at a great price.
I understand the salesmanship and legitimate metrics (my tub is better than yours is because of XYZ), but why isn't there any validation of what constitutes an "average vs good vs great" price on tub models? More specifically, why hasn't there been more pricing transparency on hot tubs, like there has been in other industries, like automotive? Dealers, your thoughts are welcomed on this one.
Pricing varies so much because there are a lot of variables that go into it. If one company is close to the plant where they are manufactured they will be cheaper then someone across the country. If the company is strictly hot tubs then they are typically priced more then if a company has income coming in from other areas. If one company is out in the sticks and pays $1,000 a month for rent then they will be cheaper then someone in a major city who pays $20,000 a month for rent. Manufacturers have MSRP's that are fairly accessable. You will never get a straight answer on pricing because different companies have different expenses built into the product. I have seen some pricing on here that seems impossible to me as there is virtually no money into it. Your best bet is to visit multiple dealers, narrow down your choices and figure out each ones price.
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I truly need the entertainment this place provides on a daily basis...remember guys, it's just hot tubs, hug it out :)
(http://i67.tinypic.com/2hykto3.jpg)
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I'm not usually one to argue and be negative and I try to offer my true, honest assessment of things based on more than 20 years in the industry. I just find this vendetta with Bullfrog to be so weird and unjustified. Literally every time someone mentions Bullfrog, you can count on Tman coming in with some negative bs.
/rant over
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I'm not usually one to argue and be negative and I try to offer my true, honest assessment of things based on more than 20 years in the industry. I just find this vendetta with Bullfrog to be so weird and unjustified. Literally every time someone mentions Bullfrog, you can count on Tman coming in with some negative bs.
/rant over
Please post my negativity to BF again. I looked back and didn't see it Sam?
I did see a non salesman for BF trying to help a consumer get a good fit. And I never asked the hot tub industry for a thank you.
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I'm not usually one to argue and be negative and I try to offer my true, honest assessment of things based on more than 20 years in the industry. I just find this vendetta with Bullfrog to be so weird and unjustified. Literally every time someone mentions Bullfrog, you can count on Tman coming in with some negative bs.
/rant over
Please post my negativity to BF again. I looked back and didn't see it Sam?
I did see a non salesman for BF trying to help a consumer get a good fit. And I never asked the hot tub industry for a thank you.
I have a really thick skin, but I am really finding your comments towards me/us pretty freaking insulting. We have all been here a very long time like you! Yet you make some of us sound like we are gold chain, hairy chest, open shirt, dirt bag sleazy used car salesman. I, like Sam, Eric and others, all of whom have sold other brands now and over the years, unlike you. Are not POS deceiving salesmen here, out to mislead people into buying some kind of POS spa from a deceiving company. Bullfrog spas is one of the best I have worked with, and we have suggested to people to wet test, choose the spa that works for them on all brands. Be it a BF, Marquis, HS, Jacuzzi and a few others out there as well. And if your rolling your eyes right now, you can bite me and do a search over the past 10 + years. You think BF sales tactics are BS and misleading that's fine. But do not portray us to be something we are not as people and salesman that have proven ourselves here over the years. Sure we have had our differences over the years, but we are also passionate about what we sell, and for most of us it's our lively hood.
FWIW I was able to talk to some people at Bullfrog and our Rep who has been in the industry just about as long as anybody, and longer then I have been alive, ( FYI I am 54) about their marketing and what the reasoning was behind the 90% less plumbing claim and it was quite enlightening. But I gotta say at this point you are not worth giving the info to!
I had respect for you, but not anymore. Tired of your BS, and life's to short to worry about you or what you think you may or really don't know!
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I'm not usually one to argue and be negative and I try to offer my true, honest assessment of things based on more than 20 years in the industry. I just find this vendetta with Bullfrog to be so weird and unjustified. Literally every time someone mentions Bullfrog, you can count on Tman coming in with some negative bs.
/rant over
Please post my negativity to BF again. I looked back and didn't see it Sam?
I did see a non salesman for BF trying to help a consumer get a good fit. And I never asked the hot tub industry for a thank you.
I have a really thick skin, but I am really finding your comments towards me/us pretty freaking insulting. We have all been here a very long time like you! Yet you make some of us sound like we are gold chain, hairy chest, open shirt, dirt bag sleazy used car salesman. I, like Sam, Eric and others, all of whom have sold other brands now and over the years, unlike you. Are not POS deceiving salesmen here, out to mislead people into buying some kind of POS spa from a deceiving company. Bullfrog spas is one of the best I have worked with, and we have suggested to people to wet test, choose the spa that works for them on all brands. Be it a BF, Marquis, HS, Jacuzzi and a few others out there as well. And if your rolling your eyes right now, you can bite me and do a search over the past 10 + years. You think BF sales tactics are BS and misleading that's fine. But do not portray us to be something we are not as people and salesman that have proven ourselves here over the years. Sure we have had our differences over the years, but we are also passionate about what we sell, and for most of us it's our lively hood.
FWIW I was able to talk to some people at Bullfrog and our Rep who has been in the industry just about as long as anybody, and longer then I have been alive, ( FYI I am 54) about their marketing and what the reasoning was behind the 90% less plumbing claim and it was quite enlightening. But I gotta say at this point you are not worth giving the info to!
I had respect for you, but not anymore. Tired of your BS, and life's to short to worry about you or what you think you may or really don't know!
So why is it I am the first one insulted and when I fire back with logic and facts (which never get answered) I suddenly turn into the bad guy?
FYI I am 60 and have owned or serviced more differing boxes of swirling hot water than anyone I know. Been in the plumbing industry for 30+ years. If you want to make it about experience.