Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: ray on September 08, 2016, 12:15:13 pm
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hello everyone... need help in choosing my first hot tub... wet tested the hotsprings grandee and jacuzzi j495... preferred jacuzzi over hotsprings... about to wet test sundance aspen... would like to know your thoughts on sundance vs jacuzzi vs caldera cantabria... is there a pecking order as far as quality? thanks for all your help.
ray
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for those 3 specific models its pretty much 6 in one hand and half a dozen in the other...make sure you wet test and see which model suits your families needs the best as far as jetting, comfort, etc. Also even though they are all very close in size, features, warranty, etc. each dealer sets pricing so that will be a factor as well...other than that those models are pretty much a "copycat" of each other, there all built in Mexico and will have similar/same build quality and similar/same components "underneath the hood"
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I strongly considered both the Cantabria and the Grandee during my recent search. I also briefly explored the Aspen, which seemed like a very nice tub with excellent fit/finish. I wanted a big tub from a reputable manufacturer, but didn't want to pay the premium that these behemoths cost. I ended up in a Bullfrog R8 (8-person) for thousands less than any of the other options that I was considering and don't feel as if I have sacrificed much (if anything) in terms of quality or performance. I am yet to receive it, but based on my wet-test experience, I'm going to be very happy with it. If price is a factor for you, I'd recommend giving Bullfrog a look, as their 8-person offerings - while slightly smaller than all of the ones you are considering except the Grandee - should be significantly less expensive. If you're set on the models that you've mentioned, then I think the best advice you will get on this forum is to wet test them all and see which one feels the best. They're all quality tubs from good manufacturers, so the minor differences in features really come down to personal preference. If they all feel good to you, then it comes down to which dealer you think will provide the best service and also, which one offers the best price.
One comment: the Cantabria is the only tub of the 4 mentioned with a lounger. Not sure if that is important to you or not, but a wet test will be critical to ensure that you fit in it comfortably.
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thank you both... i've wet tested the grandee and j495... will be wet testing the cantabria and aspen tomorrow... at first i like the lounger but then not everybody will fit in it... so that's not really a factor... as for bullfrog... i will check where the nearest dealer is... will let you guys know. wish me luck... :)
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All four of those are great choices no matter where they are made. The more you can wet test the more you will know. Every brand has a different feel and only a couple are right for you. Quality manufacturers means the most. All those are. Marquis or D1 around? Also great choices.
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thank you both... i've wet tested the grandee and j495... will be wet testing the cantabria and aspen tomorrow... at first i like the lounger but then not everybody will fit in it... so that's not really a factor... as for bullfrog... i will check where the nearest dealer is... will let you guys know. wish me luck... :)
Of the two, which one are you leaning towards? Also, what did you think of the Grandee and the Moto-massage feature? I enjoyed the Moto-massage of the Grandee very much, but found the Jetpacks of the Bullfrog R8 to be every bit as good if not better. I really liked the Grandee, but couldn't justify the massive price differential. The R8 is essentially the same exact size as the Grandee.
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thank you both... i've wet tested the grandee and j495... will be wet testing the cantabria and aspen tomorrow... at first i like the lounger but then not everybody will fit in it... so that's not really a factor... as for bullfrog... i will check where the nearest dealer is... will let you guys know. wish me luck... :)
Of the two, which one are you leaning towards? Also, what did you think of the Grandee and the Moto-massage feature? I enjoyed the Moto-massage of the Grandee very much, but found the Jetpacks of the Bullfrog R8 to be every bit as good if not better. I really liked the Grandee, but couldn't justify the massive price differential. The R8 is essentially the same exact size as the Grandee.
You got that tub for damn near wholesale. Twin cities would probably agree that that tub should've been closer to 10k with the options you got
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So many different brands to choose from. You can't go wrong with sun dance, jacuzzi, caldera, hot springs, marquis, d-1 or a few others. Bullfrog is coming on strong and I'm not saying they don't belong in the same level as the others I just don't know enough about the newer ones. I've only ever worked on older ones and only saw the newer ones at a couple of shows. They look nice. Wet testing is important and finding the tub and the deal that works best for you
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You got that tub for damn near wholesale. Twin cities would probably agree that that tub should've been closer to 10k with the options you got
No dispute, but even at $10k, that's still thousands cheaper than any of the tubs that the original poster is considering. My guess is that any of the other four tubs in his consideration set will go from $12-$14K, and I don't believe that the Bullfrog sacrifices much if anything to these tubs (albeit a few inches in size to the Cantabria, Aspen and 495... Virtually the same size as the Grandee). I considered 3 of the 4 tubs very carefully, tested 2 of the 3, and felt that the jets of the Bullfrog were either equal to or better than the others. I concede that my deal was definitely an anomaly, but even so, the Bullfrog still presents a great value proposition even at normal retail price.
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thank you both... i've wet tested the grandee and j495... will be wet testing the cantabria and aspen tomorrow... at first i like the lounger but then not everybody will fit in it... so that's not really a factor... as for bullfrog... i will check where the nearest dealer is... will let you guys know. wish me luck... :)
Of the two, which one are you leaning towards? Also, what did you think of the Grandee and the Moto-massage feature? I enjoyed the Moto-massage of the Grandee very much, but found the Jetpacks of the Bullfrog R8 to be every bit as good if not better. I really liked the Grandee, but couldn't justify the massive price differential. The R8 is essentially the same exact size as the Grandee.
i liked the moto massage but for some reason i enjoyed the j495 better... that's why i can't wait to wet test the aspen tomorrow. it looks pretty similar. :) I also like the foot dome massage which the grandee did not have.. grandee did have a couple of foot massage jets but they are across the tub so if somebody is sitting on that side it's kinda awkward. i'll also be testing the cantabria... thanks again for all your inputs! this is a big investment and i don't want to mess up. :)
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You got that tub for damn near wholesale. Twin cities would probably agree that that tub should've been closer to 10k with the options you got
No dispute, but even at $10k, that's still thousands cheaper than any of the tubs that the original poster is considering. My guess is that any of the other four tubs in his consideration set will go from $12-$14K, and I don't believe that the Bullfrog sacrifices much if anything to these tubs (albeit a few inches in size to the Cantabria, Aspen and 495... Virtually the same size as the Grandee). I considered 3 of the 4 tubs very carefully, tested 2 of the 3, and felt that the jets of the Bullfrog were either equal to or better than the others. I concede that my deal was definitely an anomaly, but even so, the Bullfrog still presents a great value proposition even at normal retail price.
You are right. The r series would compare more to the paradise line from caldera or 300 series from jacuzzi. Either way you got a great deal! When are you getting it?
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You could even compare it against an A8, which frankly isn't much different from the R8 with the exception of 2 additional jet packs. I guess I'm a bit biased, but I think my opinion could be helpful to Ray, as I was also considering many of the same, larger tubs as he is. Bullfrog wasn't even in my original consideration set until it was time to start talking price on the Cantabria, Grandee and Aspen. When I found that the dealers were by and large unwilling to move on price for these bigger tubs, it became evident to me that I needed to go a different path. If money were no object, I probably would have found myself in the Aspen. But price was a factor to me, which led me to Bullfrog. After learning more about the quality of the product and testing one for myself, I was immediately sold.
Hoping to complete my pad this weekend and the electrical run the following weekend. This is a floor model, so as soon as I'm ready, the dealer can have it here anytime! :)
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You could even compare it against an A8, which frankly isn't much different from the R8 with the exception of 2 additional jet packs. I guess I'm a bit biased, but I think my opinion could be helpful to Ray, as I was also considering many of the same, larger tubs as he is. Bullfrog wasn't even in my original consideration set until it was time to start talking price on the Cantabria, Grandee and Aspen. When I found that the dealers were by and large unwilling to move on price for these bigger tubs, it became evident to me that I needed to go a different path. If money were no object, I probably would have found myself in the Aspen. But price was a factor to me, which led me to Bullfrog. After learning more about the quality of the product and testing one for myself, I was immediately sold.
Hoping to complete my pad this weekend and the electrical run the following weekend. This is a floor model, so as soon as I'm ready, the dealer can have it here anytime! :)
You are right. One thing I've learned in this business is comfort is different to everybody. What I might like doesn't mean anything. It's all about how the tub feels to you
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thank you both... i've wet tested the grandee and j495... will be wet testing the cantabria and aspen tomorrow... at first i like the lounger but then not everybody will fit in it... so that's not really a factor... as for bullfrog... i will check where the nearest dealer is... will let you guys know. wish me luck... :)
Of the two, which one are you leaning towards? Also, what did you think of the Grandee and the Moto-massage feature? I enjoyed the Moto-massage of the Grandee very much, but found the Jetpacks of the Bullfrog R8 to be every bit as good if not better. I really liked the Grandee, but couldn't justify the massive price differential. The R8 is essentially the same exact size as the Grandee.
i liked the moto massage but for some reason i enjoyed the j495 better... that's why i can't wait to wet test the aspen tomorrow. it looks pretty similar. :) I also like the foot dome massage which the grandee did not have.. grandee did have a couple of foot massage jets but they are across the tub so if somebody is sitting on that side it's kinda awkward. i'll also be testing the cantabria... thanks again for all your inputs! this is a big investment and i don't want to mess up. :)
If you liked the 495, I think you'll really like the Aspen. It's a great, big tub with excellent fit/finish and is essentially a sister tub to the 495. The Cantabria is also big, but has a different feel with the lounger and very defined, reclined seat positions. The Aspen and 495 have more open layouts without the lounger, and the 4 corner seats are very deep. The rest of the seats in the Aspen / 495 are more bench-style. In summary, I think you will find the Aspen / 495 to be very similar, and the Cantabria will offer a bit of a different experience.
The Bullfrog R8 / A8 also offers a foot dome, and the corner seats are nice and deep. It's not as deep at 38" depth (compared to 41" in the Aspen / 495), but overall depth can be a bit deceiving depending on where measurements are taken. At 6'4", I found the R8 plenty deep.
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hello everyone... need help in choosing my first hot tub... wet tested the hotsprings grandee and jacuzzi j495... preferred jacuzzi over hotsprings... about to wet test sundance aspen... would like to know your thoughts on sundance vs jacuzzi vs caldera cantabria... is there a pecking order as far as quality? thanks for all your help.
ray
Don't use anyone elses opinion of what they think feels good or is a good deal. This is for you not them. As long as the brands you are considering are quality (and they are). Salesman are going to try and sway you.
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Don't use anyone elses opinion of what they think feels good or is a good deal. This is for you not them. As long as the brands you are considering are quality (and they are). Salesman are going to try and sway you.
of course. my concern is more on the quality side of it. thanks! :)
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Don't use anyone elses opinion of what they think feels good or is a good deal. This is for you not them. As long as the brands you are considering are quality (and they are). Salesman are going to try and sway you.
of course. my concern is more on the quality side of it. thanks! :)
With Jacuzzi, Hot Springs and Caldera you're looking at good manufacturers so concentrate on your confidence in the dealers, what kind of deal you can get and of course wet test.
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Don't use anyone elses opinion of what they think feels good or is a good deal. This is for you not them. As long as the brands you are considering are quality (and they are). Salesman are going to try and sway you.
of course. my concern is more on the quality side of it. thanks! :)
I was just concerned cause you were getting bombed by sales for brands your not even looking at. Glad your on top of it. You have some of the best in front of you. Narrow your choices just like your doing.
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Don't use anyone elses opinion of what they think feels good or is a good deal. This is for you not them. As long as the brands you are considering are quality (and they are). Salesman are going to try and sway you.
of course. my concern is more on the quality side of it. thanks! :)
I was just concerned cause you were getting bombed by sales for brands your not even looking at. Glad your on top of it. You have some of the best in front of you. Narrow your choices just like your doing.
I wouldn't exactly call it getting "bombed" with a sales pitch. As someone who went through a very similar search and looked closely at the same list of tubs, I think the original poster might value my opinion. If you look closely at my initial post in this thread, you'll see that my main advice was to wet test first, evaluate the quality of dealers second and consider price third. I did exactly that, came up with a good battle plan and had narrowed things down to either a Grandee or Cantabria. At the last minute, I ventured out to explore the Aspen, and found that the Sundance dealer also happened to carry Bullfrog. After a wet test, I left having signed for a Bullfrog R8. Perhaps my purchase was driven a bit more by price - it was literally half the price of the Cantabria or the Aspen - but it wet tested every bit as good (to me anyway) as the other tubs and seemed to have a great reputation. My short time on this forum has confirmed that, with the exception of your disdain toward the Bullfrog brand for some odd reason yet to be explained. If we can't share our opinions and experiences without ridicule, then what's the point of having a discussion forum? And what harm is there in presenting another option to the original poster to consider?
Ray - I don't care which tub you buy, so long as you're happy with it. I don't sell these things. I wanted a quality, 8-person hot tub and was prepared to shell out $12-$14k for the pleasure. I feel as if I accomplished that goal and only spent $7,400. Even if you can't do as good on the price, a Bullfrog R8 (or A8 for that matter) should still be thousands cheaper and I think it's at least worth a soak. Your mileage may vary and I really hope you enjoy whichever tub you choose. Frankly, they're all great options and it's really going to be hard for you to go wrong with any of them.
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Hello everyone... i appreciate all your comments/experiences... really... thanks for sharing... well... let me recap.. i wet tested the jacuzzi j495 and hot springs grandee last monday...i tested the sundance and caldera today... DKranger... didn't get to test the bullfrog... dealers are a bit far from me and didn't want to deal with LA traffic... anyway... and the winner is... sundance Aspen. The Cantabria is nice but the lounger is for tall people... i'm not... plus i think the jets are softer than the Aspen... the grandee jets were kinda has the same feel as the cantabria... don't get me wrong... they're great tubs... but the Aspen in my opinion is more therapeutic... the J495 and Aspen are very similar but Aspen has few more features like the illuminated grab bars... you can also turn off all the jets and just have bubbles... i also prefer the waterfall instead of the fountains on the cantabria and grandee... so in the end it was the j495 and the aspen... the aspen was $2700 cheaper... got it for $12800 taxes included/out the door... other dealers quotes were around that plus tax... in case you're wondering... the j495 was $13995+tax+$300delivery... yeah... delivery... all the other dealers were free delivery except for the jacuzzi dealer... Can't wait!!! again... thanks to all who took the time to respond/comment. cheers!
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Good tub for a good price. Congratulations on your purchase!
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Don't use anyone elses opinion of what they think feels good or is a good deal. This is for you not them. As long as the brands you are considering are quality (and they are). Salesman are going to try and sway you.
of course. my concern is more on the quality side of it. thanks! :)
I was just concerned cause you were getting bombed by sales for brands your not even looking at. Glad your on top of it. You have some of the best in front of you. Narrow your choices just like your doing.
I wouldn't exactly call it getting "bombed" with a sales pitch. As someone who went through a very similar search and looked closely at the same list of tubs, I think the original poster might value my opinion. If you look closely at my initial post in this thread, you'll see that my main advice was to wet test first, evaluate the quality of dealers second and consider price third. I did exactly that, came up with a good battle plan and had narrowed things down to either a Grandee or Cantabria. At the last minute, I ventured out to explore the Aspen, and found that the Sundance dealer also happened to carry Bullfrog. After a wet test, I left having signed for a Bullfrog R8. Perhaps my purchase was driven a bit more by price - it was literally half the price of the Cantabria or the Aspen - but it wet tested every bit as good (to me anyway) as the other tubs and seemed to have a great reputation. My short time on this forum has confirmed that, with the exception of your disdain toward the Bullfrog brand for some odd reason yet to be explained. If we can't share our opinions and experiences without ridicule, then what's the point of having a discussion forum? And what harm is there in presenting another option to the original poster to consider?
Ray - I don't care which tub you buy, so long as you're happy with it. I don't sell these things. I wanted a quality, 8-person hot tub and was prepared to shell out $12-$14k for the pleasure. I feel as if I accomplished that goal and only spent $7,400. Even if you can't do as good on the price, a Bullfrog R8 (or A8 for that matter) should still be thousands cheaper and I think it's at least worth a soak. Your mileage may vary and I really hope you enjoy whichever tub you choose. Frankly, they're all great options and it's really going to be hard for you to go wrong with any of them.
The OP asked about 4 specific brands and instead of helping them with their choice a couple/few tried to add something "they" think is better and/or worth a try.
Sorry I don't see that as help for a potential buyer. You never hear me skew a conversation/question to a particular brand. And suddenly I am against a brand......whatever BF koolaid drinkers.
To all those who need advice, I promise to not drink any ones koolaid. Take my advice or leave it. I could care less.
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The OP asked about 4 specific brands and instead of helping them with their choice a couple/few tried to add something "they" think is better and/or worth a try.
Read my response again. I did provide feedback / insight on the 4 tubs originally in question. I also provided feedback on another option that i felt competed very well with those same tubs - similar size, features and in my opinion soaking experience - at a significantly better price point. I'm not sure how that can be construed as anything other than trying to help.
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Hello everyone... i appreciate all your comments/experiences... really... thanks for sharing... well... let me recap.. i wet tested the jacuzzi j495 and hot springs grandee last monday...i tested the sundance and caldera today... DKranger... didn't get to test the bullfrog... dealers are a bit far from me and didn't want to deal with LA traffic... anyway... and the winner is... sundance Aspen. The Cantabria is nice but the lounger is for tall people... i'm not... plus i think the jets are softer than the Aspen... the grandee jets were kinda has the same feel as the cantabria... don't get me wrong... they're great tubs... but the Aspen in my opinion is more therapeutic... the J495 and Aspen are very similar but Aspen has few more features like the illuminated grab bars... you can also turn off all the jets and just have bubbles... i also prefer the waterfall instead of the fountains on the cantabria and grandee... so in the end it was the j495 and the aspen... the aspen was $2700 cheaper... got it for $12800 taxes included/out the door... other dealers quotes were around that plus tax... in case you're wondering... the j495 was $13995+tax+$300delivery... yeah... delivery... all the other dealers were free delivery except for the jacuzzi dealer... Can't wait!!! again... thanks to all who took the time to respond/comment. cheers!
Ray - congrats on the Aspen! I really enjoyed that tub as well. You'll have plenty of space to sprawl out or entertain friends/family. I really enjoyed the 41" depth. Enjoy in good health!
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Read my response again. I did provide feedback / insight on the 4 tubs originally in question. I also provided feedback on another option that i felt competed very well with those same tubs - similar size, features and in my opinion soaking experience - at a significantly better price point. I'm not sure how that can be construed as anything other than trying to help.
You also tried to sell the OP a different brand he wasn't even considering. Kinda like a salesman who drank to much koolaid.
You feeling that it competes well means what? You feeling he could of spent less? Maybe for less tub. Maybe he didn't want less tub?
Those are nice but this is better is what you did. Shame.
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Read my response again. I did provide feedback / insight on the 4 tubs originally in question. I also provided feedback on another option that i felt competed very well with those same tubs - similar size, features and in my opinion soaking experience - at a significantly better price point. I'm not sure how that can be construed as anything other than trying to help.
You also tried to sell the OP a different brand he wasn't even considering. Kinda like a salesman who drank to much koolaid.
You feeling that it competes well means what? You feeling he could of spent less? Maybe for less tub. Maybe he didn't want less tub?
Those are nice but this is better is what you did. Shame.
Thanks for trying to put words in my mouth, but that's not what I did.
- hey, I'm looking at these 4 tubs - what do you think?
- great tubs, here's my take on those 4, my opinion may be of value to you, as I explored the same tubs in great detail.
- if you like those 4 and don't want to spend that much, you may also consider this option
You're right, I wasn't trying to be helpful. I was trying to hawk a Bullfrog because I have some vested interest in what a perfect stranger on the other side of the country buys. Such a shameful act on my part. Instead of digging the pad for my Bullfrog like I was planning to do this weekend, I guess I better dig a hole and hide in it, as I can't live with myself ;)
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Congrats on the Aspen! It is a great tub, also about as big as you can get. It seems like you got a very good deal on it. I'm sure you will enjoy the heck out of it.
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Agreed on the price - I was quoted about a grand higher here in my area before tax!
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hey guys... i really appreciate all your comments/experiences/concerns... especially DK. :) i took all your comments as i was wet testing the tubs... hey DK... so you are putting the pad yourself? how about the hard wire? how much did it cost you? thanks again, everyone! God bless.
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by the way... for rookies out there like me and is in a market for a tub... i'm sure they'll throw in the regular stuff... chemicals...step stool... delivery... cover with lifter... i did get the upgraded fabric (?) looking texture cover for free (the dealer said it was an upgrade)... she also gave me extra filter... and the padded seat for my wife... oh and a bunch of rubber duckies and squirty sharks. :D my point is ask for everything you can think of that you'll need... $25-$50 here and there adds up... doesn't hurt to ask.
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one more question... i'm getting pavers for my backyard... should i just ask the contractor to put pavers where the tub is going to sit? or have concrete? considering the price is almost the same...
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one more question... i'm getting pavers for my backyard... should i just ask the contractor to put pavers where the tub is going to sit? or have concrete? considering the price is almost the same...
You'll get lots of different opinions (surprise, surprise) on what material to use for your pad. Concrete is probably the most popular choice, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best. I'd take a well-done paver base over a shoddily constructed concrete pad. Site prep is the most important piece of the equation, ensuring that you've excavated deep enough (6" minimum seems to be the general consensus, but that could differ depending on how solid your soil base is and whether or not frost heave is a major concern for your area... I recall you being in Southern California, so that shouldn't be a concern for you). If going with a paver base, you'll want at least 3-4" of crushed stone (larger size - i.e. 3/4" limestone rather than pea gravel) as the base material. You'll want to compact it down as best you can - renting the tamping/compacting machine from Home Depot will be the best tool for the job). Then come over top of the crushed stone with 2" of a construction grade sand (not play sand). Again, compact it down and ensure that it is level (using a long 2x4 with a 4 foot level on top would do the job). Then finish with your paver of choice. If you go the concrete route, I would just ensure that your contractor uses some type of reinforcement (rebar, mesh or fiberglass), as your tub will probably weigh in at 6,000 lbs + once full. Some might say that reinforcement isn't necessary, but it doesn't cost much extra to do it, and you want this to last for a number of years, so just do it. If cost is about the same for either option, then I'd probably lean towards concrete myself. I'm finding it quite a bit cheaper to do a paver base, so that is my game plan. There are other options: i.e. "EZ pads, constructing a pad out of treated lumber, etc., - all of which can work. My opinion is that concrete or pavers would be better.
I haven't gotten into the electrical yet, but my brother (electrician) and I will be tackling that next weekend, so I'll have a bit more feedback on the cost of materials at that time. It will largely depend on how long of a run you need to make, as the wire will be the most expensive component (aside for labor if you have a contractor... I'll pay my brother in beer... AFTER the wiring is complete). If you need to hire a contractor, be prepared that it can be costly (i.e. $1,000), but again, there are lots of variables that play into that. Without knowing more about your setup, it's hard to provide you with meaningful feedback regarding cost.
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You'll get lots of different opinions (surprise, surprise) on what material to use for your pad. Concrete is probably the most popular choice, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best. I'd take a well-done paver base over a shoddily constructed concrete pad. Site prep is the most important piece of the equation, ensuring that you've excavated deep enough (6" minimum seems to be the general consensus, but that could differ depending on how solid your soil base is and whether or not frost heave is a major concern for your area... I recall you being in Southern California, so that shouldn't be a concern for you). If going with a paver base, you'll want at least 3-4" of crushed stone (larger size - i.e. 3/4" limestone rather than pea gravel) as the base material. You'll want to compact it down as best you can - renting the tamping/compacting machine from Home Depot will be the best tool for the job). Then come over top of the crushed stone with 2" of a construction grade sand (not play sand). Again, compact it down and ensure that it is level (using a long 2x4 with a 4 foot level on top would do the job). Then finish with your paver of choice. If you go the concrete route, I would just ensure that your contractor uses some type of reinforcement (rebar, mesh or fiberglass), as your tub will probably weigh in at 6,000 lbs + once full. Some might say that reinforcement isn't necessary, but it doesn't cost much extra to do it, and you want this to last for a number of years, so just do it. If cost is about the same for either option, then I'd probably lean towards concrete myself. I'm finding it quite a bit cheaper to do a paver base, so that is my game plan. There are other options: i.e. "EZ pads, constructing a pad out of treated lumber, etc., - all of which can work. My opinion is that concrete or pavers would be better.
I haven't gotten into the electrical yet, but my brother (electrician) and I will be tackling that next weekend, so I'll have a bit more feedback on the cost of materials at that time. It will largely depend on how long of a run you need to make, as the wire will be the most expensive component (aside for labor if you have a contractor... I'll pay my brother in beer... AFTER the wiring is complete). If you need to hire a contractor, be prepared that it can be costly (i.e. $1,000), but again, there are lots of variables that play into that. Without knowing more about your setup, it's hard to provide you with meaningful feedback regarding cost.
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i actually have an appointment on tuesday for both pad and wiring... i think concrete will cost me about $1100 and probably around the same for wiring... wish i could pay them in beer. :D
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Please find a Bullfrog dealer and take a look. I had one of the brands you have looked at and it was, shall we say, less than satisfactory. Granted I probably got it 15 years ago but it started leaking just after the warranty expired and cost a ton to heat. My Bullfrog is now nine years old and has had one problem. The circuit board failed a year or so ago. The tech guy walked me through the troubleshooting and it probably took me 15 minutes to swap it out.
Whatever you choose, go for any extra pumps and higher powered heat units you can get. On a big spa you can't have to much pump power, and extra heat capacity will allow you to hold the unit at a lower temperature and warm it up down the road when you aren't using it 17 times a day like you will at first.
Good luck
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Please find a Bullfrog dealer and take a look. I had one of the brands you have looked at and it was, shall we say, less than satisfactory. Granted I probably got it 15 years ago but it started leaking just after the warranty expired and cost a ton to heat. My Bullfrog is now nine years old and has had one problem. The circuit board failed a year or so ago. The tech guy walked me through the troubleshooting and it probably took me 15 minutes to swap it out.
Whatever you choose, go for any extra pumps and higher powered heat units you can get. On a big spa you can't have to much pump power, and extra heat capacity will allow you to hold the unit at a lower temperature and warm it up down the road when you aren't using it 17 times a day like you will at first.
Good luck
Thanks!
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Congrats on a nice spa! Please stick around and share your experience with others. Hell, I love hearing about peoples opinions and experiences and I'm in the industry. I think it helps me better serve my customers.
tman's bullfrog hangup is so weird. Most people pretty much agree that they make a great hot tub and they are worth considering in your research. You are like the only one who trashes them.
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tman's bullfrog hangup is so weird. Most people pretty much agree that they make a great hot tub and they are worth considering in your research. You are like the only one who trashes them.
I think Bull Frog makes a fine tub. I just don't like the current sales model. It's full of skewed facts and outright lies.
1. 90% less plumbing (as if this means anything, and 90% less than what tub?)
2. Less Moving Parts (haven't figure which ones out yet in my research, and no one has provided the info to me)
3. No Diverter Valves (lie, changing the name does not make a component do something different)
4. No Manifolds (lie, matter of fact they are closer to your ears than in a regularly designed hot tub with no insulation on them to help the noise generated from water diversion and cavitation)
5. 100% full power on all jet pacs (some kinda magic? Unless there's a pump for each pac and another for the the balance of the jets, not sure what you would do with excess flow if you wanted to turn a pac down? Errrr wait, no diverter valves, variable output pumps?) They make variable output pumps.
These are the ones I am chewing on.
Go ahead, tell me how I don't know nothing bout BF
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I think Bull Frog makes a fine tub.
I'll put it up a few more times to get my post count above STTUO, and Doc
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I think Bull Frog makes a fine tub.
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tman's bullfrog hangup is so weird. Most people pretty much agree that they make a great hot tub and they are worth considering in your research. You are like the only one who trashes them.
I think Bull Frog makes a fine tub. I just don't like the current sales model. It's full of skewed facts and outright lies.
1. 90% less plumbing (as if this means anything, and 90% less than what tub?)
2. Less Moving Parts (haven't figure which ones out yet in my research, and no one has provided the info to me)
3. No Diverter Valves (lie, changing the name does not make a component do something different)
4. No Manifolds (lie, matter of fact they are closer to your ears than in a regularly designed hot tub with no insulation on them to help the noise generated from water diversion and cavitation)
5. 100% full power on all jet pacs (some kinda magic? Unless there's a pump for each pac and another for the the balance of the jets, not sure what you would do with excess flow if you wanted to turn a pac down? Errrr wait, no diverter valves, variable output pumps?) They make variable output pumps.
These are the ones I am chewing on.
Go ahead, tell me how I don't know nothing bout BF
+1. But you're gonna really agitate some folks on here, Tman :)
I think Bullfrog is a great tub and I respect them. But yes- They seem to employ semantics excessively when presenting their tubs. But people buy them and are happy so I tip my cap to them and the salespeople who sell them. I can't hate on them and like I said- BF aint a bad tub.
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+1. But you're gonna really agitate some folks on here, Tman :)
Agitate folks? LOL, Everyone here except the newer posters knows I could care less who I agitate.
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tman's bullfrog hangup is so weird. Most people pretty much agree that they make a great hot tub and they are worth considering in your research. You are like the only one who trashes them.
I think Bull Frog makes a fine tub. I just don't like the current sales model. It's full of skewed facts and outright lies.
1. 90% less plumbing (as if this means anything, and 90% less than what tub?)
2. Less Moving Parts (haven't figure which ones out yet in my research, and no one has provided the info to me)
3. No Diverter Valves (lie, changing the name does not make a component do something different)
4. No Manifolds (lie, matter of fact they are closer to your ears than in a regularly designed hot tub with no insulation on them to help the noise generated from water diversion and cavitation)
5. 100% full power on all jet pacs (some kinda magic? Unless there's a pump for each pac and another for the the balance of the jets, not sure what you would do with excess flow if you wanted to turn a pac down? Errrr wait, no diverter valves, variable output pumps?) They make variable output pumps.
These are the ones I am chewing on.
Go ahead, tell me how I don't know nothing bout BF
1. It says "up to" 90% less plumbing. It's implied that they are comparing it to a hot tub with similar size and jet count. There is nothing demonstrably false or misleading about this statement. There is indeed quite a bit less plumbing in a bullfrog than another similarly specc'd hot tub. You cannot argue this one. It's simply truth.
2. Nowhere does their website say less moving parts. Nor have I seen anyone say that.
3. A diverter valve, as used by ever other hot tub manufacturer is not in any bullfrog. Diverters are pretty much the same in every hot tub and nothing resembling them is found in a Bullfrog.
You can in fact turn each individual jetpak up or down with the control knob at it's base. This knob is nothing like what we all know and call a diverter valve in every other hot tub. It's not. By your logic, every single jet in most hot tubs is a diverter valve because you can turn them up and down by twisting them. This is clearly a stretch and you are being quite obtuse on this one.
4. They don't say "no manifolds". In fact, if you go to their website, you will see multiple mentions of the h2air manifold on the back of their jetpaks. Go look for yourself. It is nothing like the traditional manifolds found in every single other hot tub though. It's actually a pretty ingenious evolution of hot tub plumbing.
5. I'm not even sure where you are getting this one. I have seen people state that you can have all of the jets operate at once without having to turn a diverter valve to some half position. I think again you are misrepresenting things and/or playing semantics.
I'm not trying to fight with you or anything, I promise. You have repeatedly demonstrated your ignorance on this subject though and I feel compelled to speak up. No offense. You are generally very helpful and provide good information here. For some reason when it comes to Bullfrog, you get weird.
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tman's bullfrog hangup is so weird. Most people pretty much agree that they make a great hot tub and they are worth considering in your research. You are like the only one who trashes them.
I think Bull Frog makes a fine tub. I just don't like the current sales model. It's full of skewed facts and outright lies.
1. 90% less plumbing (as if this means anything, and 90% less than what tub?)
2. Less Moving Parts (haven't figure which ones out yet in my research, and no one has provided the info to me)
3. No Diverter Valves (lie, changing the name does not make a component do something different)
4. No Manifolds (lie, matter of fact they are closer to your ears than in a regularly designed hot tub with no insulation on them to help the noise generated from water diversion and cavitation)
5. 100% full power on all jet pacs (some kinda magic? Unless there's a pump for each pac and another for the the balance of the jets, not sure what you would do with excess flow if you wanted to turn a pac down? Errrr wait, no diverter valves, variable output pumps?) They make variable output pumps.
These are the ones I am chewing on.
Go ahead, tell me how I don't know nothing bout BF
1. It says "up to" 90% less plumbing. It's implied that they are comparing it to a hot tub with similar size and jet count. There is nothing demonstrably false or misleading about this statement. There is indeed quite a bit less plumbing in a bullfrog than another similarly specc'd hot tub. You cannot argue this one. It's simply truth.
2. Nowhere does their website say less moving parts. Nor have I seen anyone say that.
3. A diverter valve, as used by ever other hot tub manufacturer is not in any bullfrog. Diverters are pretty much the same in every hot tub and nothing resembling them is found in a Bullfrog.
You can in fact turn each individual jetpak up or down with the control knob at it's base. This knob is nothing like what we all know and call a diverter valve in every other hot tub. It's not. By your logic, every single jet in most hot tubs is a diverter valve because you can turn them up and down by twisting them. This is clearly a stretch and you are being quite obtuse on this one.
4. They don't say "no manifolds". In fact, if you go to their website, you will see multiple mentions of the h2air manifold on the back of their jetpaks. Go look for yourself. It is nothing like the traditional manifolds found in every single other hot tub though. It's actually a pretty ingenious evolution of hot tub plumbing.
5. I'm not even sure where you are getting this one. I have seen people state that you can have all of the jets operate at once without having to turn a diverter valve to some half position. I think again you are misrepresenting things and/or playing semantics.
I'm not trying to fight with you or anything, I promise. You have repeatedly demonstrated your ignorance on this subject though and I feel compelled to speak up. No offense. You are generally very helpful and provide good information here. For some reason when it comes to Bullfrog, you get weird.
Everything I listed has been mentioned here by either a BF salesman or customer. Go look for yourself Sam. That's not on me. And I think lots of people here and in the solid world recognize my knowledge as something other than ignorance, as you put it.
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tman's bullfrog hangup is so weird. Most people pretty much agree that they make a great hot tub and they are worth considering in your research. You are like the only one who trashes them.
I think Bull Frog makes a fine tub. I just don't like the current sales model. It's full of skewed facts and outright lies.
1. 90% less plumbing (as if this means anything, and 90% less than what tub?)
2. Less Moving Parts (haven't figure which ones out yet in my research, and no one has provided the info to me)
3. No Diverter Valves (lie, changing the name does not make a component do something different)
4. No Manifolds (lie, matter of fact they are closer to your ears than in a regularly designed hot tub with no insulation on them to help the noise generated from water diversion and cavitation)
5. 100% full power on all jet pacs (some kinda magic? Unless there's a pump for each pac and another for the the balance of the jets, not sure what you would do with excess flow if you wanted to turn a pac down? Errrr wait, no diverter valves, variable output pumps?) They make variable output pumps.
These are the ones I am chewing on.
Go ahead, tell me how I don't know nothing bout BF
1. It says "up to" 90% less plumbing. It's implied that they are comparing it to a hot tub with similar size and jet count. There is nothing demonstrably false or misleading about this statement. There is indeed quite a bit less plumbing in a bullfrog than another similarly specc'd hot tub. You cannot argue this one. It's simply truth.
2. Nowhere does their website say less moving parts. Nor have I seen anyone say that.
3. A diverter valve, as used by ever other hot tub manufacturer is not in any bullfrog. Diverters are pretty much the same in every hot tub and nothing resembling them is found in a Bullfrog.
You can in fact turn each individual jetpak up or down with the control knob at it's base. This knob is nothing like what we all know and call a diverter valve in every other hot tub. It's not. By your logic, every single jet in most hot tubs is a diverter valve because you can turn them up and down by twisting them. This is clearly a stretch and you are being quite obtuse on this one.
4. They don't say "no manifolds". In fact, if you go to their website, you will see multiple mentions of the h2air manifold on the back of their jetpaks. Go look for yourself. It is nothing like the traditional manifolds found in every single other hot tub though. It's actually a pretty ingenious evolution of hot tub plumbing.
5. I'm not even sure where you are getting this one. I have seen people state that you can have all of the jets operate at once without having to turn a diverter valve to some half position. I think again you are misrepresenting things and/or playing semantics.
I'm not trying to fight with you or anything, I promise. You have repeatedly demonstrated your ignorance on this subject though and I feel compelled to speak up. No offense. You are generally very helpful and provide good information here. For some reason when it comes to Bullfrog, you get weird.
don't waste your time Sam....all the "dinosaurs" in the industry can't fathom a different way to design/build/sell a Hot Tub other than the way its been done for the last 30 years...I'll take 30% + growth over each of the last 3 years while most dealers are closing stores or hoping they hit a 2% growth on a yearly basis if they are lucky.
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don't waste your time Sam....all the "dinosaurs" in the industry can't fathom a different way to design/build/sell a Hot Tub other than the way its been done for the last 30 years...I'll take 30% + growth over each of the last 3 years while most dealers are closing stores or hoping they hit a 2% growth on a yearly basis if they are lucky.
If you think this is about my understanding of a different design to accomplish the same thing, you guys are far gone. To much koolaid.
I will work on all of them.
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In regards to Tman122 and Bullfrog spas, were way beyond beating a dead horse and it's not worth the time.
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I agree, it is impossible to convince someone who has been brainwashed.
If any BF salesman or owner posts any of the BS I pointed out to try and convince someone it's better and not just simply different. The thread should be trashed.
I respect your opinion that YOU think they are better. This is America, you are allowed to think what YOU want. But as I have stated before if you start throwing that BS around as fact I will call you on it.
It's funny though, how I become the uneducated, dinosaur, idiot as has been pointed out by several BF salesman and owners. I guess I don't get an opinion. Here, I'll give it anyway. Bull Frog makes a fine tub, different than the others. But not better.
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Here is some marketing for you that you never thought of. No charge.....
The BF design allows you to have a better chance of getting a comfortable tub if you don't want to, or can't for some reason get a wet test of a particular model. A better shot at improving it to, good enough or maybe even just right for YOU/ME.
Market the wet test right out.
But that still doesn't mean it will be more comfortable to YOU/ME when its wet, or more powerful or too powerful or quieter or require less maintenance/repair, less energy use, or dollars, then say another manufacturers offering? You won't know that until you compare it to several others in it's class, wet first. Get the other stuff after that.
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For one you should really stop feeling sorry for yourself there bud! Two, yes this is America and we can think what we want, we just can't say what we want without offending someone anymore. It's why I am voting for a certain person that's running for president, not that it will change much but it's how I feel. Three, in the big scheme of things it really doesn't matter Tman, there is such a small percentage of people that come here looking for advice that the argument is mute.
We know where you stand and you want to "protect the consumer" from choosing a spa and keep them from the horrible wrong doings and misinformation / BS that Bullfrog salesman spews out there everyday to the unsuspecting sucker that might buy one.
Four wouldn't you think by now that some mnfg would have sued Bullfrog spas for false advertising? Hell we had a Spa sale banner at the fair this year, it had a small Jacuzzi spa logo emblem on it from the last 10 years. We didn't think anything of it, but the Jacuzzi/Sundance rep threw a fit and told us to cover it up by the end of the day, we told him to pound sand, no one cares. Next day they even sent us a certified letter from their legal dept telling us to take it down or they would take us to court over it. Jacuzzi/Sundance is not happy with Bullfrog for many reasons most of which you probably have no idea. But to me that's really petty. Anyway keep posting your thoughts on Bullfrog I hope it works out for you and you sleep better knowing you saved someone.. FWIW I still love ya!
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Just working on my post count Jim.
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More important things in life than a post count. And dang I better work on mine, I am behind you now :o ;)
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More important things in life than a post count.
True but its pretty darn important too.
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More important things in life than a post count.
True but its pretty darn important too.
Took me 4 hours to replace a sump pump and back up battery system yesterday for a customer. It's a seasonal home on a lake a mile from the lake I live on. The total bill for the customer was just under 1000 bucks. I had about 400 in materials. I also drained, refilled, sanitized and adjusted the water in his Beachcomber hot tub. To him the sump pump was the most important thing. He didn't even care that the last time the water in his tub was changed was in April. And it looked icky. Wanted me to leave it empty and winterize it. I talked him out of it. Told him I would drain and winterize it at no charge next month or in November.
After I install a washer water supply station for another seasonal lake home today, I am going to soak in the beach, check the balance and adjust if needed then make sure the bromine is full in his floater. He will be happy he can use it one or two more weekends before winter. Then I'm going to mow a couple yards, if it doesn't rain, and work on my post count some more. If your wondering how a guy with no tub gets to soak and work on his post count.