Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: MissionHockey on May 24, 2014, 11:40:17 pm
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Hi everyone,
Bear with me here, first time hot tub owner. I received my Hot Springs Envoy today which came with the following:
FreshWater Spa Care Starter Kit includes Chlorine Granules, MPS Oxidizer, pH Up, pH Down, Stain and Scale, Defoamer, 5 Way Test Strips, and a Spa Water Maintenance & Troubleshooting Guide
I attached a filter to the hose before filling the spa. Tested the water and the numbers were all over the place. I purchased everything I need to go the bromine route, however I decided I'll use the stater kit for the first month since it came with the tub and then switch to bromine. Well, it's 8:35PM and I'm still unable to get the water levels in range by using the products in the stater kit. I should've went the bromine route from the beginning. Is it too late? Would I have to drain and refill the tub? Please let me know... you're help is very appreciated.
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Someone... Anyone... Please help.
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What are the numbers?
Are you trying to raise or lower pH, calcium, and or TA? Are you asking about chlorine?
Did you shock the tub and then look at the numbers? This is a big No No.
Please post more info.
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I just tested the water... here are the results.
pH - About 7.8
Alk - 130ppm
Ch - 90ppm
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First off don't stress over this, nothing I see is an emergency, does need to get in the perams but no reason why you can't use you spa then contact you dealer on Tuesday assuming they are closed? Don't worry about shocking yet, hit the spa with a tbsp. of chlorine after use or at the end of the day if the spa is getting off and on use through out the day, might just bump the chlorine up to 2 tbsp..
Enjoy the spa this weekend and worry about the other stuff later and GET ON YOUR DEALER to help you!!
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The chart they provided me with recommended I stay within the following ranges:
ph - Target 7.4 / Min 7.2 / Max 7.6
Alkalinity - Target 80 ppm / Min 40 ppm / Max 120 ppm
cH - Target 100 ppm / Min 50 ppm / Max 150 ppm
Also, my manual says to stay away from using chlorine and also not to use a "floating" device in the tub. I know the bromine method calls for this. Is it okay to do so anyways? I want to use the rest of the chemicals that came in the start up kit and then switch to bromine since I have already purchased everything. Will I need to drain and refill the tub to do so?
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Yes you do need to stay in certain parameters and you can use what ever you want for chems bromine or chlorine. But right now you have chlorine right? So by using chlorine your PH/Alk will come down same with bromine but I wouldn't worry about lowering it right now. Give it a few days and you should be fine, at some point you will have to raise it anyway. If you want to go to bromine that's fine and you can use a floater, I see no reason other than your manual telling you not to, is kind of strange.. Maybe a HS guy can clarify?
There is much to learn about balancing your spa, but keep it simple! You can get advice here which is very good or you can ask your dealer where you paid them 9000 dollars.
Now go enjoy your spa for the weekend, it will be fine.
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Would I need to drain and refill the tub if I wanted to switch to bromine? I'm going to use the rest of the chemicals in the starter kit and then switch over to chlorine.
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I just tested the water again after adding more pH down and it's still high.
pH - 8.0
Alk - 120
Ch - 100
The only thing that seems to be in range is the chlorine hardness. It seems the pH and Alkaline have a direct correlation to each other. Should I continue to add more pH down until it falls within range?
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CH is calcium not chlorine hardness. Yes you can continue to add decreaser if you want. PH is a measurement of Alkalinity. If adding PH decreaser you are lowering PH not Alkalinity. Spa down another product lowers both.
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I added more pH down but this stuff does not work quickly. What do you suggest to lower the cH or is it okay since it's at 100ppm? What do you suggest to lower the alkalinity?
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I added more pH down but this stuff does not work quickly. What do you suggest to lower the cH or is it okay since it's at 100ppm? What do you suggest to lower the alkalinity?
You don't need to lower the CH, if anything it should be a little higher. Like Jim said, don't worry. The water does not need to be perfectly balanced right away. You can still use and enjoy it. Your readings aren't too far off anyway.
To lower Alk, use Sodium Bisulfate which some companies call "spa down". It will lower both PH and Alk. I usually tell people to add a cap and check it again an hour later, or even the next day.
Relax and enjoy your tub! Don't let it stress you out.
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I wasn't able to find "Spa Down" but I did find dry acid from Leslie's Pool Supplies. The active ingredients are Sodium Bisulfate 93%, Other ingredients 7%, Total 100%. Will this work?
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Also, I just looked at my pH/Alkalinty Down bottle that came with the stater kit. The ingredients are "Sodium Bisulfate 95%, other ingredients 5%, total 100%." So I guess I had what I needed the entire time.
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I'm not the most knowledgeable chemical guy around, but I think you are good to go.
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As was said - enjoy the tub. Remember these are not absolute numbers but are ranges.
Always measure the water coming out of the tap before adding chemicals.
It's been a while since I had to fight high alkalinity but I'm pretty sure that hitting the tub with PH down will kill the alkalinity as well. Since you have stuff to lower both then you should be good to go. Think of it as - the PH tries to go down because of the PH down, the Alkalinity will be used up. Eventually the alkalinity will fall allowing the PH to fall as well. Alkalinity acts as the lock to keep PH where it is. Dichlor has a PH of around 7 so it won't do much to bring PH down initially.
Being a newbie expect the water to need a changing in about a month ... I think it's called Chas' Law.
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I just checked the water levels:
pH - 7.8
Alk - 100ppm
cH - 110ppm
I had to use quite a bit of the "Spa Down" formula to get the pH to drop. At least now it appears that the readings are beginning to go more into the proper range. When I run out of these chemicals, I plan on switching over to bromine. Do you recommend draining and refilling to switch to the bromine method? Also, any input on my user manual suggesting no bleach or floating devices? Thanks again for everyones advice.
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A chlorine tub can become a bromine tub but a bromine tub can't become a chlorine tub.
As far as bleach or a floater ... Bleach can be used but will void the warranty if it is found out but with bromine you won't be using too much chlorine. I think for bromine once you put the starter in and bromine crystals you're supposed to shock with non chlorine bleach. I always thought bromine was used in a floater but my tub is 9 YO ... things may have changed.
Bleach is a type of chlorine just like Dichlor, trichlor, Calcium hypochlorite and Lithium hypochlorite. I personally use Dichlor and bleach in my hot tub and use bleach, Cal Hypo and trichlor in my pool. BUT my tub is out of warranty and so if it breaks it's all on me anyway.
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I just checked the water levels:
pH - 7.8
Alk - 100ppm
cH - 110ppm
I had to use quite a bit of the "Spa Down" formula to get the pH to drop. At least now it appears that the readings are beginning to go more into the proper range. When I run out of these chemicals, I plan on switching over to bromine. Do you recommend draining and refilling to switch to the bromine method? Also, any input on my user manual suggesting no bleach or floating devices? Thanks again for everyones advice.
Any reason you want to use bromine, other than already buying it?
The compressed tablets in the floater may void the warranty. Read it. It is on line if you do not have yours.
You also have an ozonator. did your dealer give you AG+ (Nature2)?
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My dealer did not provide me with the AG+ Nature 2. I wanted to go the bromine route because it requires less maintenance than the chlorine route. However I do not want to void my warranty hence the reason I was asking about the bromine floater and using liquid bleach.
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I just tested the water again after adding more pH down and it's still high.
pH - 8.0
Alk - 120
Ch - 100
The only thing that seems to be in range is the chlorine hardness. It seems the pH and Alkaline have a direct correlation to each other. Should I continue to add more pH down until it falls within range?
How long are you waiting after changing PH to test again? I see many newbies get caught up in a PH Yoyo adding and checking again before what they did really shows completely. I wait 48 hours after trying to change my PH and checking it again. I've comfortably soaked in PHs of 7.0 to 8.0 with no problems.