Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Electro on June 18, 2004, 01:27:20 am
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The Sundance Maxxus was delivered today. I am not happy.
One of the problems involves the cover lift. I spent 3 hours with the dealer/owner a month ago reviewing various cover lifts, so that my disabled wife could manipulate and open the spa. I specifically discussed this with the dealer and he made recommendations. I settled on the Covermate II, and paid extra over the Covermate I, since the Covermate II provides additional leverage and is easier to open. The spa was delivered with the Covermate I. I questioned the dealer and he seems to have no recollection of our discussion, which is documented in my detailed notes. In response to my direct request, he refused to list the specific cover lift on the order form. Today, he insisted it was correct that I get the Covermate I.
The spa was delivered with no instructions. I had found some info on the Sundance web site about how to do the installation, electrical connection and an owner's manual. I printed these. It is not clear as to which of the 3 jumper settings I have. Does anyone have a pictorial description showing how to change the jumper between the 32, 40, and 48 amp settings, for use with 40, 50 and 60 amp breakers respectively? This info does not appear to be in the manual. I am quite irritated that the dealer did not provide any instructions at all.
Any suggestions?
Electro
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I take it you have already paid for the spa in full. If you paid by cheq. I would call the bank and cancel it right now. Then call the dealer and email/fax him a list of items that are unresolved w/respect to your agreement. You may be surprised at how quickly he regains his memory! If he seems unco-operative, tell him to come and pick it up as you will have nothing but problems in the future.
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Sorry to hear that this is starting badly. I just took delivery of a new Cameo last week and it came with a packet printed "Important Spa Owner Data" and the serial number of the tub. The only really important useful things in it : 1. owners manual explaining how to set up filter cycles, etc., 2. warranty for cover--to be mailed within 10 days, 3. warranty for tub--to be mailed within 14 days. The delivery guys positioned the spa, installed the ozonator, and said a tech would come out to configure the jumpers. I didn't argue since my electrical isn't ready. I know that sundance has the manual in pdf on their site, and I would raise a big stink with the dealer over the missing warranty papers. It sounds as though your relationship with the dealer is already almost an adversarial one; if it isn't a simple misunderstanding that does not bode well for the future. Options that I see:
1. Do nothing if additional dealer contact not fruitful, get warranty papers from dealer/corporate
2. Try to exchange cover lifter for upgraded version, maybe pay a differential
3. Raise stink with dealer and elevate issues to Sundance corporate
4. Stop payment/contest charge
5. Tell dealer to remove tub and start over with a new dealer.
The manual does not have any jumper configuration information; however, the export version does. See www.sundancespas.com/Communications/ InstructionManuals/E850EMan.pdf
I know how angry I would be if I had to invest the time to correct these mistakes, so I feel for you. I hope this is resolved quickly and favorably for you.
Starlight
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GASP! (I couldn't help it guys, forgive me) :-[
Z
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Sorry to say this but sounds like your dealers a little lost. We will not even offer the covermate 1 or 11 for the maxxus. The covers just to heavy for those lifters. did you get a pre delivery guide all the electrical info will be in that.
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The jumper information is not in the manual.
The jumper comes from the factory for a 60 amp breaker. If the dealer left it alone then you should be able to tell if it's set that way. Turn on pump 2 or 3 and see if the heater kicks on. If it does not, then your are running set for 40 amp breaker. If the heater does kick on, then turn on both pumps 2 and 3. If the heater shuts off, you are set for a 50 amp breaker. If it stays on, you have the factory setting of 60 amps. I am assuming that you wired for 60. I'd bet that the dealer left the jumper at 60 unless you asked them to switch it.
Sorry to hear about your dealer experience.
Brewman
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Congrats on the new Maxxus, but sorry to hear of your troubles. Your experience has made me rethink my plan of paying cash upfront before delivery. Maybe I should take the 6mo/same as cash deal just so I have a little leverage with my dealer? That would give me a few months to make sure I get some service should it be needed. I hope you get everything resolved to your satisfaction. The Maxxus is a beautiful spa! When I took my family to the SD showroom, my 15yr old twins immediately walked to that one and said "Why cant we have this one??" Kids...gotta love em.
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Man I'm sorry to hear this. You have worked so hard to make your choice - and I know you'll love the tub - but these detail items are no fun. Especially if your wife can't lift the cover.
Please keep us posted - did they install the lifter? If not, maybe I can swap you one if the dealer wont. I would think you would want the Covermate III, which has the air springs.
(http://www.leisureconcepts.com/graphics/PageGraphics/BodyCoverMateBottom.jpg)
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Congrats on the new Maxxus, but sorry to hear of your troubles. Your experience has made me rethink my plan of paying cash upfront before delivery. Maybe I should take the 6mo/same as cash deal just so I have a little leverage with my dealer? That would give me a few months to make sure I get some service should it be needed.
Not sure if this would work or not. Unless the dealer is offering their own financing, they will get the money from whatever bank is working with them on the financing. The dealer would get paid from that, they wouldn't be without their money for 6 months. Not sure if you'd get the same type of security as using a credit card.
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Sounds to me like they just plopped it down and ran off like scared bunnies. Sorry to hear it!
So, for other posters who have been defending to the death the overwhelming importance of buying from a dealer rather than a big-box store, what's up with this?
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This is a rare occurance as most dealers want thier customers to be happy.
When you purchased the spa did you sign an invoice stating what you purchased? Did you get a copy?
Explain to the dealer that the reason you purchased from them is because you felt that they were the best choice, and that you felt comfortable that they would treat you well.
Let them know that you are not satisfied with the service you have recieved so far. That you can not recommend them to your friends and neighbors until you feel that you have been properly taken care of.
If you put a stop payment on your check or dispute your credit card charge you will have to be able to provide proof that you did not receive what you payed for.(Invoice)
Also remember that you catch more bees with honey than with vinager.
Good luck.
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Sounds to me like they just plopped it down and ran off like scared bunnies. Sorry to hear it!
So, for other posters who have been defending to the death the overwhelming importance of buying from a dealer rather than a big-box store, what's up with this?
There are exceptions to every rule.
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Hi EveryOne, :)
Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions.
I'm mulling over my options on what to do. I've been busy today, writing an electrical program review, finishing design of my 100 amp feeder - for future remodeling - and 60amp GFCI subpanel, purchasing the parts and materials, reviewing the work with one of my engineer/electricians, getting the design in for a permit, and catching up on several hundred e-mails at the office. Actually, that was yesterday - as its after midnight now.
So, I've not had time to think about it or contact the dealer. I'll provide additional details later.
Electro
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Just post his home phone number - we'll take care of it for ya !! ;D
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Hi Guys, :'( :-/ >:(
I have been quite surprised at the attitude of the Sundance dealer, following the sale when he'd received his money. He provided me with no information at all about how to connect the spa or how to operate it. I found out by reading the Sundance web site and reviewing the manuals there.
I have not yet decided what I will do in response to his illegal action in cheating me of the cover lift that was included in the sale.
I need to reconsider what cover lift I want now, based on your responses. I'm especially interested in the posts on alternative cover lifts for the Maxxus. Note that I have the Sundance tri-fold lift, which adds an additional section to the cover that would normally fit the Cameo or Optima. The Covermate I works- sort of - but it is clearly not adequate for this cover. What lifts would you recommend and why?
Tubber - you said the Covermate lifts were not strong enough for the Maxxus. What do you recommend?
Chas - you included pictures of a number of Covermate products. What are your thoughts?
I had liked the Covermate II, since the manufacturer indicates it allows for greater leverage than others, and
it appears to allow the cover to rest at a lower level, which provides for a better view.
Electro
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I must quickly say that I don't have experience with the tri-fold cover on a lift.
Of the ones I pictured, the III is the easiest to lift b/c it has air-springs to help.
The I and II are very basic, inexpensive lifts, but both work well. They are not as easy to work with as the III, but there is nothing 'wrong' with them, I suppose, though I haven't seen them on a tri-fold.
Did your dealer install the lift or just drop it off in a box?
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Electro. My heart goes out to you. When my dealer came to deliver my tub last month, they did everything. Set all the jumpers, installed the cover lift. I've got the one that has hydrolic lift which makes it very easy to open and close. All this was being done while I filled the tub after they (dropped it) that is the term that they used to put my tub in place. And gave me all of the information which included the packet noted by starlite 'important owners information'.
I agree. if you cannot get satisfaction from your dealer by end of day tomorrow, place a call to Sundance and tell them of your dissatisfaction. You seem to have done what I did which is to take copious notes before and after purchase and delivery. My memory is just not as good as it used to be. That way you can detail everything to Sundance. I'm certain that that will help you.
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Chas and others,
I have been considering this for a couple days now, without doing anything. I continue to be disillusioned by the dealer's actions. I plan to call him tomorrow.
The Covermate I, that I never asked for or agreed to, was installed by the dealer. I do not want it, since it is clearly not sufficient for the Maxxus. You had referred to some sort of trade, if the dealer won't take it back and if it was not installed. But it was installed. Does that make a difference?
You indicated the Covermate III may be better for my disabled wife, since it has air springs. But, another factor for us is the view around the spa when in use. Pictures I've seen of the Covermate III show the cover hovering well above the spa; this is not good for us.
Pictures and a description of the Ideal Superlift 2 look better to me, based on the use of tension springs to assist in lifting; and it appears to allow the cover to ride down lower so that it obstructs the view less than most. I saw it on the rhtubs site. What do you think of this cover lift?
Tubber, I have not heard from you yet?
Electro
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Well, I was hoping you had a lifter still in a box that I could put on the shelf to sell, and I was going to send you a lift in it's place for the few bucks difference.
If you can package up the CM I completely, I do have a showroom spa waiting for one, and I could use it there.
The difference would be about $30, and shipping.
Is this the one?
(http://www.rhtubs.com/store/images/lift3.jpg)
I would be glad to help. I want you to enjoy your tub, and I want it to be easy for your wife to get the benefits you new tub has to offer her.
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Tubber, I have not heard from you yet?
Electro
Sorry Electro been busy working. First thing is it's a big cover. I recommend a cover slide. This might noe be good for you with your wife as far as her limits. I'll try and make a call today and see what else is available.
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:-/ :) :-/ :) :-/ :) :-/ :) :-/ :) :-/ :) :-/ :)
I checked with Sundance today about what cover lift they recommend for the Maxxus. They recommended either the CoverBreeze, which appears to be virtually identical to the Covermate III, or a Cover Slide type holder, which does not appear to be large enough to hold the cover. I'll have more to say about this later, as I feel the manufacturers have not done a good job in developing their spas to compliment a lifter.
Tubber, Did you find anything recommended for the Maxxus?
Chas, The Ideal Superlift 2 that you pictured, looks good to me. Are you familiar with it? Do you think it would work well with my cover? As I tried to explain before, the Maxxus tri-fold cover is like the covers for the Optima or Cameo, with a third fold that is about 20 inches by 92 inches. The small fold is flipped over first from the front, then it and the second section are folded onto the third section. Then the cover lift is used to lift all 3. It is bulky and heavy.
I'm interested in your offer to change out the lift. Would you be able to send or sell me the Superlift 2 or anything else that we find to be recommended; then I could use the packing to repack the Covermate I and send it back to you for credit.
Electro
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Electro we offer a Cover Caddy or the Cover Slide. I'm trying to find some pics for you but just not having any luck. Unfortunatly the Maxxus in our showroom is dry so we have no cover on it the time being. I'm still working on it for you though.
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Hi Guys, :) :) :) :) :)
For those following my posts about the problems with the Sundance dealer, I made a mistake.
On re-reviewing my notes about the day I ordered the hot tub, I remembered incorrectly about one aspect of the purchase. I thought we'd agreed on the Covermate 2, but my notes indicated that lifter was only if I agreed to the 2-fold cover, which was to be included without additional cost. I paid extra for the 3-fold cover and for the Covermate I lifter.
I finally felt calm enough and called the dealer to discuss the lifter, how I believed we had agreed on the Covermate II, and how the Covermate I as installed is clearly not suitable for the Maxxus. The dealer was quite clear that I'd bought and paid for the Covermate I and he was not interested in helping me in any way. He also clearly stated that he stocks and sells only the Covermate I lift for all spas.
I did not argue, after it was clear that he was not going to help or give me any satisfaction. He mentioned repeatedly that I'd gotten such a great deal and if the lifter didn't work well, so what. I have checked and I paid about mid-range for this Sundance hot tub. But, I also found that I paid very high additional prices for the cover, the lifter, and the Ozonator. Most outrageous was that he tried to charge me $125 for the Sunglow LED lighting, which is included as a standard feature for 2004 on the Maxxus.
It is now very clear that this dealer is extremely self-centered and greedy. I asked about purchasing several additional items and chemicals; to which I found he would sell only at his full "retail". On checking his "retail" against other dealers' prices, his "retail" is about 50% higher than all others and 80-120% above web prices. It is curious that he is not willing to come in or work when customers want him there, either early or late - he only works from 10:00 AM to 4:00 PM. And, he does not allow his employees, who sell the chemicals only, to sell or even talk about the hot tubs.
Because I signed the Wells Fargo credit contract, I believe there is no recourse, unlike with a credit card. It seems to me that if I complain to Sundance, this would give him cause to treat me badly if I need warranty or service.
With what I now know, I would never purchase a Sundance product, solely because of his attitude.
Electro
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I can understand your dismay with the dealer but that has nothing at all to do with Sundance. If any recourse should be made it should be with your local BBB office. Your next step should be to contact Sundance and Wells Fargo, let them know about your problem and if there is any sort of resolve. Good Luck.
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:-/ :) :-/ :) :-/ :) :-/ :) :-/ :) :-/ :) :-/ :)
Chas, The Ideal Superlift 2 that you pictured, looks good to me. Are you familiar with it? Do you think it would work well with my cover?
I'm interested in your offer to change out the lift. Would you be able to send or sell me the Superlift 2 or anything else that we find to be recommended; then I could use the packing to repack the Covermate I and send it back to you for credit.
Electro
Yes - I can send you the Ideal Superlift 2, and you can send me the other lift for credit.
Please email me with your shipping address, and I'll try to get it on its way today.
Or call my Ventura Store and leave the address info with Jim, Josh or Stephen -
805-644-3232.
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You really should complain to Sundance. They need to know about things like this.
Breman
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He comes in from 10:00am to 4:00pm and won't let anyone else in the store sell spa's. He won't come in early or stay late.
How is this guy still in business selling anything!!
Spahappy
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Good question, Spahappy!!!
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Electro
If you are looking for recourse, don't give up on Wells Fargo. Many times, with these deals, they actually issue you a credit card with all the advantages. I had an issue a while back with an appliance and was refunded my money in full.
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I DEFINITELY think you should take this up with Sundance too. As a consumer, as far as I am concerned the dealer is representing the Sundance company. I'm sure they would be very interested to know that you have been treated so badly. Afterall, as other posts have said, 1 happy customer can tell 2 people about their experiences, but 1 unhappy customer tells 22.
saz
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Hi Guys, :) :) :) :) :)
It is now very clear that this dealer is extremely self-centered and greedy.
It seems to me that if I complain to Sundance, this would give him cause to treat me badly if I need warranty or service.
With what I now know, I would never purchase a Sundance product, solely because of his attitude.
Electro
It seems to me that this dealer has *already* treated you badly and, if his attitude regarding future support is anything like his attitude regarding fixing the lifter issue, selling chemicals at reasonable prices, or even simply being available in the store, well, the odds of having him honor your service claims fully and expeditiously seem remote to me. In your shoes, I would call Sundance corporate because:
1. Logging your complaint now and including concerns over the dealer's willingness to perform future warranty service may give you more credibility and leverage to have corporate strongarm the dealer or assist in finding someone else to perform service down the road when you need it,
2. When companies get feedback from a customer in their target demographic group that he might start campaigning against the brand not because of the product but because of a personnel issue, the company will probably want to investigate. Because this dealer can potentially create more of the same issue, the odds are good that corporate will want to nip this in the bud if possible. This may result in some tangible benefits to you in an effort to restore your opinion of the brand. (One of my past companies did this regularly.)
3. You'll feel a little better.
I also wouldn't rule out getting Wells Fargo to assist you in putting financial pressure on the dealer, and a BBB complaint might add a bit of weight. Only you can determine if these things are worth your time or if they will only aggravate you and make a bad situation worse.
Fortunately, some of the dealers here are going well above the call of duty and trying to make the situation better for you. This is impressive since you are not their customer nor even someone who bought the line the dealer sells. Many kudos to these dealers; if one were near me, they'd have my business in an instant.
Good luck, and hopefully you can start enjoying the spa soon.
Starlight
BTW-I found the Maxxus manual in .pdf online PM me if you want the link.