Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: fishnaked on January 12, 2014, 05:04:30 pm
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Hi,
At a time when I'm doing all that I can to simplify my life and cut my electricity consumption, I can't believe I'm contemplating a tub. However, with on-going muscle/skeletal issues, and knowing how good I feel after sitting in a natural hotsprings along a river, here I am.
An old fashioned simple wood fired hot tub with no jets, lights or other bells and whistles really appeals to me. Since my primary heat source in my house is wood, I have plenty of wood to burn. And there's some primal attractive aspect to me about using fire. However, with a cursory look, it seems I'm looking at 2-3 hours to get my water up to temp. For someone who would likely soak most days, this could turn in to a real chore....starting the fire, tending the fire, and waiting. I'm afraid my enthusiasm would quickly burn out.
That said, I'm open to the idea....particularly if the wait time was closer to one hour...if there was such a tub.
The attractiveness of an electric tub is obvious...but, as mentioned before, I'm not keen to see a big jump in my utility bill. Extra energy efficiency would appeal to me. I'm guessing by the very nature of a small tub, energy usage would be minimal. Roughly how much would it take?
There are three of us who'd be using this tub: My wife, 10 yr old daughter, and myself. Typically, it would be two of us at a time or me solo. We're all on the smaller side so need for a lot of soaking space. And, we don't have much space in which to put a tub either.
Having looked just a bit, the Nordic Bella MS and Sundance Tacoma have caught my eye. I'm sure there are many others. I'm primarily interested in sitting in hot water outside. I don't need jets but understand that there may be no such electric tub. Or, is there?
Anyone have thoughts to share? Any and all the input I can get would be appreciated!
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owever, with on-going muscle/skeletal issues, and knowing how good I feel after sitting in a natural hotsprings along a river, here I am.
I've had muscle issues for decades.
I've had a hot tub with rotating, pulsating jets for 13 years.
Get an electric tub with jets, pay the associated price.
You can thank me later.
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Have you considered, or is a gas fired heater out of the question. Set a thermostat and walk away. You have a pump, filter and a heater outside the tub, say in a little shed and a couple insulated hidden lines running to a wooden tub. Get a nice cover, turn the temp down to say 50-60 during the day and then turn it up an hour or so before your ready. And they are very fast heating. They make very efficient small LP/Propane gas fired pool type heaters like the Pentair Minimax plus. A 100,000 BTU should have the tub cookin in a very short time. Small sand or media filter, easy to clean and or change. Thermostatically controlled. Don't need much of a pump if you only have 5-6 jets on a round wood tub like those Dr. Spa sells. It's not contoured seating but the benches can be comfortable for a long soak. More of a traditional type of tub/soak.
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Either of those 2 choices would work for you. Also check out roberts hot tubs online for some nice wood options
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Pentair discontinued their small Minimax heaters (though, there's some new ones coming out). We currently use a Raypak 106 on our wooden hot tubs. Even on a 5' diameter, 4' tall tub (42-1/2" deep, seat 4 comfortably) it heats over 20 degrees per hour. Considering the tub will only lose about 10 degrees over a 24 hour period, this means that it takes less than 1/2 each day to bring it up to temp.
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Wow! Thank you all for the replies! Very helpful.
I had not considered a gas fired tub....I guess, due to not having gas here at the house. However, can this be done with a gas tank? This tub would sit against my daughters 8'x8' playhouse so I could possibly use it to house the pump, heater, etc.
I looked at the Roberts tubs. I like them! A wood tub like suits my tastes and esthetics far better than a plastic/glass tub. However, I don't know that wood is in my budget. :'( Is it possible to get a small stripped down version with no jets, benches, etc? Jets would be nice but, I am perfectly happy without and accustomed to backcountry tubs with nothing but hot water. I like simple.
Thanks. I look forward to hearing/learning more about my possibilities.
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You have to have a few jets, enough to take the pressure from the pump that circulates the water through the heater for heating. Yes they can be fired by propane tanks.
If wood is still in your sights check out the snorkel tub.
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Or you could combine the jets into a single return fitting that allows enough flow to operate the heater. We typically use a 1hp, 2 speed pump, wired to operate only on low speed.
Propane tanks could be used, but it's difficult to do. The amount of propane a take will output is relevant to the surface area of the propane in the tank (the liquid propane has to evaporate into a gas, and only so much can evaporate). The little BBQ tanks will only put out about 30k BTU's per hour...makes it tough to supply 100k BTU's per hour....but with enough tanks it can be done.
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Thanks, guys! After I posted, I realized I'd have to have jets. I just know so little about these things and haven't given them much thought. I am now though!
Regarding the propane tank, I was thinking one larger than the BBQ kind.....rather a larger tank from Suburban Propane. Then I'd have to deal with finding a place to put it. They do have tanks that can be buried so that might be an option.
At that point, after paying rent on the tank (I think that's how they do it), my monthly bill might be more than it if I just went with a standard electric tub. Thoughts?
As I mentioned previously, I really like the wood tubs. However, it may boil down to a cost thing. I was hoping that by going small and simple, I could get something that didn't take a big cash outlay or substantially add to the monthly bills. Dr. Spa, can you tell me more about combining the jets?
Having thought about this more, I'm going to rule out a wood fired tub. For me, as often as I'd want to use it, it would just be too much effort and time for hot water.
I'd love to hear more thoughts. I'm certainly open. Thanks!
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Propane typically costs about the same to heat with as electricity...though your mileage may vary. 1 gallon or propane puts out 91,500 BTU's. Gas heaters run 82% efficient...so 1 gallon of propane would generate 75,000 BTU's of heat. Electric heaters are 100% efficient...22kW of electricity is equal to 75k BTU. If you compare the cost of 1 gallon of propane to 22kW of electricity, you can see which would be the least expensive for you. (Electric heat is slower to heat up so there's a bit of additional electrical cost as the pump would need to run for about 3 times longer).
Most propane companies I know of "rent" the tanks for free, as long as you buy the propane from them.
"Combining" the jets...it's really just omitting them all together, and returning the water through a single unrestricted fitting.
How many jets are you thinking you might want? If we went down to 2 (from the normal 4), we could reduce the pump size (saving some $). Also size of tub? Going to something 5' in diameter, and 2-1/2' tall (no bench, you'd basically site on the floor, would also make things most "cost friendly" :-)
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Thanks, Dr. Spa! I checked the price of propane and electricity and just as you said, it's about the same. However, given that my local propane company wants a rental fee for the tank, propane is going to end up being a bit more. And then there's the tank itself. I don't have room to bury their smallest 500 gallon underground tank they have so I'd have an ugly 124 gallon tank to contend with. It's looking like electricity is going to be the better option for me.
I think two jets would be fine as would a 2 1/2' height. Something a bit narrower than 5' in diameter would work better in my space. An oval tub might be the ticket....but, if round is more "cost friendly", I could make that work.
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If you really wanted to get down to minimal size, a 5' long, 3' wide 2-1/2' tall oval would fit two people reasonably well (we have one on our showroom floor, and I'm always surprised how many people are attracted to it).
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I was thinking more in the realm of a 250 or 500 pound pig (propane tank) I use a 500 pound tank here to supply the whole house. If I buy my propane from the tank owner which I always do it is 10 bucks a year. My tank sits up by the garage about 100 feet from the house.
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Thanks, again. Roughly, with a good insulating cover, how efficient are these wood tubs compared to the more conventional tubs of equal volume such as Sundance, etc? In other words, would my monthly operational costs be similar... or a fair bit more with a wood tub?
For what it's worth, I'm in S Idaho. It's not uncommon to have night time temps in the single digits and days that don't go above freezing for a week or two at a time. Not Alaska but.....
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You may want to look into an Artic Fox. They are a 4 person tub and you most likely have an Artic Spa dealer in your neck of the woods.
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Take a look at this..made by Watkins (a major manufacturer) and backed by Costco....http://www.costco.com/.product.11757445.html?cm_sp=RichRelevance-_-categorypageHorizontalTop-_-PopularProductsInCategory&cm_vc=categorypageHorizontalTop%7CPopularProductsInCategory
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Bought a Freeflow Accent for 4k...That was over a year ago. I keep it at 104 degrees and was pleasantly surprised at how efficient it was. It's outside and I live in South Dakota so that's saying quite a lot...I truly enjoy it! :) Jody
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Freeflow is made by Watkins...same as the Costco tub I linked above
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Thanks, everyone. Those spas look good. I'm tight on space though....so they're a bit big.
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Freeflow is made by Watkins...same as the Costco tub I linked above
You know there are differences between the Watkins tubs offered at Costco and the Watkins tubs offered at dealers right?
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Yea I'm sure Costco probably makes Watkins chinz a little to bring the price lower..how ever he was looking for something small and cheap..and this tub seems to get good reviews and again has costco's unbeatable customer service behind it
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I have a Freeflow "Emerald" on my showroom floor. They discontinued the model, and I don't get a lot of interest in it. I would make you a screaming deal!! This is from the Freeflow Sport series, from the same people who bring you HotSpring Portable Spas. It can be run on 110 volt plug-in, or 220 volt hardwired. In extreme cold, I would recommend 220. It is well insulated, and includes an insulated cover. Very simple - yes is has jets, and I know you are not looking for jets, but these are very simple, and the tub runs on low speed when heating, so you can turn off the air injection and the jets are barely noticeable.
IMPORTANT: as was mentioned in a post just above, there is a big difference between the tubs Watkins offers through the big-box stores and the ones we dealers have to offer. The jets are different (I know this is not a biggy for you) but the huge difference is that the big-box models do NOT have a heater. They warm the water by running the jet pump (which is single speed on those tubs) and extracting heat from the friction. They take twice as long to heat as a conventional 110 tub: 24 hours vs. about 10 to 12 hours for 110. If you switch to 220 volts, the heater in the dealer version kicks up to 4000 watts, and can heat from cold in under 6 hours - keep in mind that you most likely will set the temp and forget it, but if the tub gets cold, getting it back to a usable temp can become an issue.
Here is the layout of the tub I have. It seems like exactly what you are looking for:
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRLtBLp_X68_sM5m6u96btYJRpYosO28rQfTHCGuTZuOlOGCY44)
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Chas you are wrong...Heater: 1kW (115V) / 4kW (230V) stainless steel and dual speed pump! ..and i am very familiar with that tub..no way id buy that tub over the costco watkins..but i am not the professional..same exact heater!!.. (another reason why doing your own research is important)...people still inform other people on assumptions not facts! Construction and Specifications:
•Seating: 5 adult seats, includes lounger
•Dimensions: 75" x 75” x 34"
•Jet Count: 25 stainless steel hydrotherapy jets; 11 typhoon jets; 14 euro jets
•Jet Pump: 1.5 BHP (2 speed)
•Water Capacity: 290 USG
•Weight: 370 lbs. dry; 2,835 lbs. filled
•Electrical: 110V plugs into a standard outlet with dedicated circuit or 220V conversion (licensed electrician can supply the GFCI, conduit and wires to convert)
•Heater: 1kW (115V) / 4kW (230V) stainless steel
•Filter: 50 sq. ft. intelligent filtration with customized programming for optimized filtration cycles
•Shell: Made of durable RokSolid™ advanced unicast polyethylene
•Ozonator: Included
•Cabinet: Synthetic wood siding
•Insulation: Full foam insulation for maximum efficiency and long-term heat retention
•Installation: Place on concrete slab or properly supported wood deck
•Made in the USA
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Learn something new every day! I was wrong, sorry. The "Auqaterra" tubs, available from Costco, DO have the two-speed pump motor and they DO have a heater. I have been sent out on warranty and some non-warranty calls to fix tubs which did NOT have the heater, but they appear to have been sold online direct, not from Costco. As a dealer, I'm not real thrilled to discover this, but it is what it is.
One other item: they are 'plug and play.' As such, they have a standard 15 amp plug on the end of the power cord. If you want to run them 110 volt you can use an existing outlet, as long as there are no other large appliances on that circuit. But on 110 (as has been mentioned) your heater is only 1000 watts.
Sold the tub. Sorry.
8)
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i will agree 1500 is a good price...someone got a good deal
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According to the east coast rep the freeflows to the dealer network are exactly the same as the ones sold by mass merchants. Only difference is the name
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What about warranty and factory backed service?
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On my Freeflow Accent I have 1 year on parts & labor...and an additional year on parts...Purchased it from Rapid Spa in Rapid City...Since I purchased it in Oct. 2012, I haven't had to use either...It has very few bells and whistles and has performed flawlessly. Jody
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Costco...5-year structure
2-year cabinet
1-year parts
1-year labor
1-year spa cover