Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: flyinbyu20 on November 14, 2013, 05:16:29 pm
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Greetings! I am a first time spa buyer, and have come across this brand called White Water Spas that is being sold at one of the dealers I have visited. I have searched forums and other websites and can find almost no information on them. When I go to the contact us page, I get an email address that has Sunrise Spas in it, so I assume they are affiliated. I called them and awaiting a return call to ask them questions. So I hope in the mean time I can get some more answers out here in the community. The model I am looking at is the S105 and from what I saw, it looked like a nice tub with good features and a good price. A separate dealer had mentioned that they may be made in China and being shipped over to Canada to have a few tweaks made, and now it can be said it is "made in Canada", which concerns me. I am also looking at the Premium leisure 850 and the Hot springs Hot Spot Relay. If I can get any advice on this, that would be greatly appreciated
Thanks!
Tim
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They don't look to bad. Roxuel is good insulation if it is connected right on the top and bottom. Small circ pump available for lower energy use. Pretty standard stuff (pump, motor, power packs) How are they built and how are they priced? If your getting a lounge make sure you fit it.
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Well, the company never called me back and the store was suppose to as well, so a little upset at both. What worries me is that another spa dealer who hadn't heard of them pointed out this on their home page "After more than 20 years of designing and building spas for tens of thousands of families in over 50 countries, we are confident that our products will meet and surpass your expectations. " He told me that this is a solid giveaway that they are made in China. Any truth to that? Also, if true the statement of 20 years of designing spas, why has no one heard of them? It just worries me. Currently, the price I got I got quoted was 5,900 with delivery, cover, cover lifter, and steps for a pretty big hot tub, 94x94x36. I still havent tried the lounge out on this one with a wet test, but will be. I did try it on the LE850 from premium leisure and enjoyed it.
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Up until a month ago I worked for a dealer that sold Whitewater, Sunrise, and LA Spas. I left the industry completely. Anyway, the Whitewater spas are made in the same factory as the rest of the Sunrises in Canada. Sunrise has been mfg spas since 1989, though I'm not sure how long the Whitewater name has existed. $5900 is a good price for that spa, though I would recommend a wet test for any lounger spa to make sure you fit.
I personally think they are a pretty well made spa and at that price I think they are more than exceptable quality. As Tman122 said, pretty standard parts. Balboa electronics, Waterway jets, plumbing and pumps, Sunstar cover, etc.
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Thank you for your reply. When you were working there and selling the whitewater, did you notice any issues with maintenance on them or problems? If I offered you that S105 whitewater for 5,900 and a premium leisure LE850 for 5,900, which one would you go with and why? Just like to hear other people's input and reasoning. Like I said, this is my first time buying one and I have been considering it for over a year now, researching on and off again and finally ready to pull the trigger.
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I didn't personally see issues with them but I don't have history more than 3 years with Sunrise. I have never personally seen a Premium Leisure. To the best of my knowledge Premium Leisure is the old Hydrospa, and if so they weren't considered a high quality product. I also had one of their reps lie to meet about numerous things regarding Sunrise and LA.
I wouldn't consider a Premium Leisure personally based on the actions of that rep and their past though if I were you I would wait until someone else can offer anymore on Premium Leisure before making a decision.
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Thanks again for the reply. One last question, any idea how long whitewater has been around? i know sunrise has been for quite some time, so specifically whitewater. I only ask for warranty issues. Or at least when were you in the market selling them? Trying to gain a little history on them and how long it has been around. I will also wait to see if anyone can get me some more info on the new Premium Leisure spas.
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You have to understand that a value hot tub is a value hot tub. They sell them cheaper for a reason. This doesn't mean that it isn't right for you. But know that you WILL be making compromises in things like longevity, energy efficiency, hydrotherapy and the quality of the unit. Premium Leisure has a reputation for building low quality hot tubs. White Water may be building the same reputation but you will have to look under the hood and kick the tires yourself to find out. Value tubs are OK for a start into the hot tub world because you can get them at a lower price. There are several brands of value tubs that have good reputations for building a quality value product. You still make compromises with those.
For 5900 you can get a value tub made by a manufacturer with a long standing reputation for quality. It may not have as many bells and whistles though.
Look closely at how it's made. Fit and finish. Look at several brands and listen to them if you can to see what they sound like. Look at the control panel, see how it's mounted. The jets how well are they cut into the shell. Under the top lip where it meets the side panels. How do the side panels attach and how are they aligned. What does the plumbing look like, is it a cobbled mess or neat and tied together. What's on the bottom for protection. These are the things that tell how a tub is made. Forget about HP, number of pumps, quantity of jets. 20 quality jets with properly engineered plumbing will feel better ad give you a better hydrotherapy experience than 80 cheap jets with poorly designed plumbing.
Value tubs are right for some people. Just know going in that your not getting 8000 dollars worth of tub for 5900.
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Thank you Tman for that great insight! In the same lines of how its made, the whitewater guys were really pushing the fact that "White Water spas Sure Steel metal frame has been designed and engineered for a long life. In addition, we are helping to save our forests by not using traditional wood frames." He stressed this steel frame as being far superior to a wooden one. Any comments on that?
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The carbon footprint of a steel frame is far more that that of a frame made of lumber.
If the majority of spa has a 15 year life span (shell, equipment, siding), is there any benefit of making one aspect of it to last 100 years?....other than the marketing/sales benefit.
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thanks guys!
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Dr. Spa is right on about a steel frame. At first I to was impressed with the steel frame marketing point but then I thought about it most homes today are built with wood frames and many are still standing that are over 100 years old. Eight months prior to my purchase of a hot springs tub I was going to buy a belize hot tub online even poured the concrete slab with the belize dimensions in mind. Again thought it over and a hot tub is large purchase which you will have for many years. Do you want to spend more now or pay that price in energy and maybe repairs during the long term. Another thought is resale value of the tub. Higher end tubs, hot springs, caldera, D1, jacuzzi and sundance to name a few, seem to have a better resale or trade in value if you ever become unhappy with your old tub. Take you time in the purchase go to all your LOCAL dealers and wet test there product. Look at the well name brands middle or lower end tubs. Even ask about there showroom models, some times the dealer wants to get rid of there old inventory to replace it with there newer models. You can save hundreds of dollars on a floor model. When you are the buyer the ball is always in your court. Good luck.
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Thank you nazzz! Ya, for some reason the resale fact slipped my mind. Maybe you or someone else an correct me if I am wrong, but the HotSpring (I think Watkins in general) uses older wiring methods that require an unusual 230v GFCI box? My point here is that it will only work with one manufacturer where as if I go with the other hot tubs and the standard 240, it is more universal for long term reasons or resale value...?
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Watkins "wiring methods" aren't "old", they're unique with a nice advantage. With most spas, if the heater trips the circuit breaker, the entire spa is without power. This can cause SERIOUS problems in freezing weather. With the design of the Watkins spas, if the heater trips the breaker, there's still power to the rest of the system, which would keep it from freezing.
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Ah, gotcha. Hope it didn't come off this way, I wasn't trying to talk down Watkins by calling it old, I was just relaying what was being told to me by spa dealers and them calling it the "old" way. In regards to the freezing issue, I live in Central Florida so that is not something that concerns me. But am I wrong in saying the vast spa manufactures out there use the 220/240 v 50 amp and not this 230? Just trying to learn ;)
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Generally, anything a dealer says about a competing product, you should ignore. Have you ever heard of a salesperson saying a competing product is better and you should go elsewhere to buy it????
Personally, the more a salesman bad mouths the competition, the more I tend to think he simply has no positive selling points for his own product and is intimidated by the competition.
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Haha exactly why I am on here talking to all the members in the forum for advice ;D
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Hot Springs uses the same power as any other tub. A 220V circuit with a 50 amp supply will be fine. 220-230-240 its all the same and we call it a 220V circuit here in Minnesota. You will have to do some things a little different with a HS but it uses the same power supply.
To touch on the wood versus metal thing. Nothing but a lousy sales pitch that the metal frame sales people are throwing. There is no structural advantage to a thin sheet metal frame over a solid 2x4 wood frame or even a 2x2 wood frame except the fire rating is higher on steel. There is no cost advantage no support advantage and no longevity advantage. If you live in a very wet area and have not properly prepared your site, maybe the drainage isn't done correctly. I'm not sure if wood would rot faster or steel would rust quicker. I like to say "I have had 3 BBQ grills rust on the same wooden deck" But that's really not fair as the BBQ grill is subjected to extreme temps. But if I was selling wood framed tub and talking about steel framed tubs, how many people would be fooled?
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Once again, Thank you all for these messages. Just as an update, today I tried out the hotspring highlife models and actually fell in love with the moto massager for the back. I have yet to feel that on any other of the tubs I have tried. The envoy is going to cost me an extra 2k, but I think in the long term I will be happier not settling for a lower end tub. Thanks again!
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I'm not a hot springs fan but can tell you that it is 2000 more tub. Not just 2000 more expensive but 2000 more product. My reasons for not liking HS have nothing to do with reliability. longevity, quality (fit and finish), support, energy efficiency or the manufacturer. Good choice.
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I appreciate everyone's advice and knowledge. I ended up putting the down payment tonight on the Envoy. Thanks again!!!