Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Dr. Spa™ Ret. on July 27, 2013, 11:59:03 am
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I'm trying to put together a chart listing all the different aspects of a hot tub (brand), in order to, in a sense, rate/judge the overall quality. Looking for some input on what YOU feel are some important aspects. Things such as;
Frame material (pressure treated wood, non-pressure treated wood, aluminum, steel, plastic etc.)
Cover quality (thickness, foam density etc.)
Skirt material and thickness (composite, wood)
Insulation method and material
Years in business
I'm as interested in what the Pros think is important, as much as what consumers think is important. PLEASE feel free to respond with what YOU feel is an important aspect...and please mention whether your a consumer, or a professional in the industry.
Thanks!
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I feel the most important thing is how the equipment bay is laid out. How much confusion is in there. How easy is it to work on. How are the pumps mounted and the control. How easy is it to get the equipment bay cover off and back on and will it hold up to several removals and replacements. Screw holes that are built in to the panel and not just drilled through. It's easy to spot the difference between a well made tub and a not so well made tub if you look at the two side by side.
There's other things also but one for now.
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A good dealer is huge, not necessary one that's been around a longtime, because I know some that have been in biz a long time yet offer poor customer service. How they made it through the great depression who knows? Often hard to know from a customer standpoint because they put up a good front and plaques on a wall don't always mean everything..
From a spa end, not counting the Costco's (which have gotten better over the years) and fly by night internet companies, I think length of warranty is a plus, cabinet and shell are not that big of a deal as most don't fail, sure there are some but far and few between. Plumbing and electrical need to be 5 years! Full foam vs not I know there will always be debates, but I have always been a fan of full foam. Poundage 1lb 2lb or open cell/closed cell of the foam who cares were not talking huge savings here really all do a good job. Filtration, by-pass vs no by-pass another debate :roll: could go on forever on this one, it really comes down to water turn over, sure 5 filters vs one, two or three can help but most people that have been in the spa industry know it to be another sales tool, much like salt vs chlorine or ozone vs ultra violet sure they work but a person would probably be fine with just straight dichlor and shock after use..
Covers are what they are, Doc correct me if I am wrong life of a cover is 5 year maybe longer if well cared for and depending where someone lives, around here it's 5 years or less. I think cover warranty's suck, mnfg warranty for a year maybe 2. If it fails you deal with the cover company, (most cases) and you have to ship it to them at your cost, once again this is where a good dealer can come in handy.
In reality most spa mnfgs are pretty good and provide a good product, more times than not it's the home owner in the end that has to take care of their spa, People are always way to quick too blame the spa for poor water conditions and general maintenance problems, I always love that call on Monday morning from a pissed customer that their spa fail, only to find its a dirty filter, or worse case a pair of panties in the pump from their kids party. That being said it is up to the dealer to educate the buyer on how to take care of it.
I'm again going to go with the dealer aspect, A spa is only as good as the dealer. Mnfgs don't know anything about where a spa ends up or if there is a problem until a customer calls them and says the dealer wont take care of them, or has failed to fix it for the 5th time.
Customers also need to realize dealers are not mind readers. When a customer has an issue with a new spa CALL YOUR DEALER! How many times here do we see someone post here that has a problem or chem question with their just newly delivered spa, sure it's good they are posting here, but they could easily get on a phone and check with their dealer, guess a Sunday for many might be tough so all are welcomed here but it still goes back to the dealer. Costco/internet buyers your kinda in limbo and hopefully all the jabbing aside, you will find info here that will help you!!
Ok enough now from me, hope this is what you are looking for Doc??
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Roger.. Those are AWESOME aspects to consider. It's the quality of the little things like that, which are easy to see, yet a pretty good representation of the overall build quality.. Thank you
Hey Jim, thank you ..I agree, a dealer is very important. It been said that even the worst spa can be fantastic if you have a great dealer. And by the same token, the best spa can be crap, with a terrible dealer. For now, I want to stick with just the psychical aspect of the spa. Probably I'll eventually do some kind similar thing on dealer quality as well.
Warranty is a little tricky. A buddy likes to share the following true story.. A friend of his set up a new dealership of a "major" brand spa. Took a spa right off the delivery truck, put it on the showroom floor, unwrapped it, filled it and discovered the pump housing was cracked and leaking. The manufacturer denied the warranty saying it was caused by bad water chemistry....warranties, although a comparable published number, in the real world might be hard to compare...but, I'd throw them with a through description and disclaimer.
There actually are some considerable differences in cover quality. We do a fair amount of custom covers for some large spa manufacturers, and many choose to reduce the quality in order to cut the cost . Some years ago, we made covers for a now bankrupt company. The covers were made exactly to their specifications. Average life span, 2 to 3 years. We frequently get phone calls from past customers that purchased directly from us (our top of the line retail cover), that get FURIOUS because their cover is 10+ years old, now needs to be replaced, and we don't have a record of what they purchased 10 years ago and now they're going to have to re-measure.
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#1 = cup holders, If I don't have a place to put my vodka/tonic then I'm not happy 8)
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There are so many things to mention but let me hit on one that is a simple one that will often escape the average shopper. The customer may ask or the salesperson may volunteer how long they've been in the spa business (unless the answer is not good then they will avoid it) but its important to know how long the dealer has carried that particular brand. If I go into a dealer selling "brand X" I want to know how long they've carried the brand. If its a big number (lets say 7+ years but really when you get 10+ that's a great selling point) I'm going to feel far better about their knowledge of the product, their ability to service it well, their belief in that product, their working relationship with the manufacturer...
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Dr. I would say the best thing in a tub is low maintenance and reliability. I have owned my Emerald for over 6 years with no trouble. I believe most people get caught up in features and name brands. We use the tub on a almost daily basis. If you buy a tub and believe you got a good deal then I say you did. In my opinion to many people are worried about what someone else paid or has that they don't. My belief is Don't Worry Be Happy!! You will probably live a longer happier life.
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The way the shell meets the cabinet. Most companies do the lip over design, the lip of the shell goes over the cabinet side wall. But only a few do it right with a good seal so there is very little air infiltration at this critical spot. I have seen plenty of lower cost and middle of the road tubs with a big gap between the two.
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This is good reading. So many tubs look really great in the showroom, that is what I followed my first time. The 2nd time I went more on long term reputation of the brand/dealer.
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#1 = cup holders, If I don't have a place to put my vodka/tonic then I'm not happy 8)
I'm with you on that! I can't imagine anyone taking out two of the cup holders to mount speakers in their place.
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#1 = cup holders, If I don't have a place to put my vodka/tonic then I'm not happy 8)
I'm with you on that! I can't imagine anyone taking out two of the cup holders to mount speakers in their place.
(http://i42.tinypic.com/244ber8.jpg)
and that is why the option for side mounted speakers is available on every model, very convenient for "jamming out" in the backyard when your not using your spa as well because you can use them with the cover closed ;D happy soaking!!!
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Hey, I appreciate everyone's responses and input! Just to add a little clarity, at the moment, this has NOTHING to do with dealers, options, or anything that may be considered a personal preference (cup holders being one :-) ). This is solely about the quality of the physical aspects of the spa. Think of it more like a basic "guide", so a consumer can walk up to a spa, and all by themselves, look at it and see what is a quality aspect, and what might be considered poor quality.
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Hey, I appreciate everyone's responses and input! Just to add a little clarity, at the moment, this has NOTHING to do with dealers, options, or anything that may be considered a personal preference (cup holders being one :-) ). This is solely about the quality of the physical aspects of the spa. Think of it more like a basic "guide", so a consumer can walk up to a spa, and all by themselves, look at it and see what is a quality aspect, and what might be considered poor quality.
If you make a list as a guide for people make sure at the end of the list you put "Consider all the above and then go get your bathing suit and wet test because that'll answer a lot of questions for you".
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The way the shell meets the cabinet. Most companies do the lip over design, the lip of the shell goes over the cabinet side wall. But only a few do it right with a good seal so there is very little air infiltration at this critical spot. I have seen plenty of lower cost and middle of the road tubs with a big gap between the two.
Really? This is how you decide if a tub is high quality? Seems that there are quite a few things that should be higher on the list than layout of equipment compartment and how the shell meets the cabinet, IMO. I guess everyone will have their own priorities, which makes this task all the more difficult for Dr. Spa. This is such a subjective thing.
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The way the shell meets the cabinet. Most companies do the lip over design, the lip of the shell goes over the cabinet side wall. But only a few do it right with a good seal so there is very little air infiltration at this critical spot. I have seen plenty of lower cost and middle of the road tubs with a big gap between the two.
Really? This is how you decide if a tub is high quality? Seems that there are quite a few things that should be higher on the list than layout of equipment compartment and how the shell meets the cabinet, IMO. I guess everyone will have their own priorities, which makes this task all the more difficult for Dr. Spa. This is such a subjective thing.
And I thought cup holders would be up there close to the top. :-[ I guess sitting there, holding your drink, is not that bad if you're only going to soak for a few minutes.
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Really? This is how you decide if a tub is high quality? Seems that there are quite a few things that should be higher on the list than layout of equipment compartment and how the shell meets the cabinet, IMO. I guess everyone will have their own priorities, which makes this task all the more difficult for Dr. Spa. This is such a subjective thing.
Layout of equipment and how the shell meets the cabinet shows an attention to detail and how precise their manufacturing process is. I think these are some EXCELLENT individual aspects to look at when trying to determine the over all quality of a spa.
Thanks for your own input and ideas :-)
P.S cup holders would be a personal preference / design feature, and have no bearing on quality of construction
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Lets talk about the bottom a little bit. ABS plastic is a good thing but, you can staple a thin piece on the bottom or you can form fit a pan using thick plastic and all your frame work is protected from the elements. Some companies do both. Look at it. Another thing that varies differently from brand to brand and almost always depends on how much you spend.
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Proprietary or not to proprietary that is the question. All potential buyers should know if the parts for their tub are specific to their manufacturer or generic and available from anyone. And to expound on this further generic parts are not created equal. The manufacturers of generic parts (Waterway, Gecko, Hydroquip to name the biggest), these are parts that are used by several manufacturers of tubs, have, in most cases, several lines of parts that are good, better, best. And they have been known to manufacture parts specific for certain brands. Some to meet a price point and some that meet a specific spec whether its better or not better.
Proprietary does not mean bad it means proprietary. In other words they are made specifically for that brand. This can be both good and a pain. Sometimes parts manufacturers make a better part for a specific brand to meet their spec. But they are likely more expensive and sometimes harder to get.
Something every purchaser should know.
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Really? This is how you decide if a tub is high quality? Seems that there are quite a few things that should be higher on the list than layout of equipment compartment and how the shell meets the cabinet, IMO. I guess everyone will have their own priorities, which makes this task all the more difficult for Dr. Spa. This is such a subjective thing.
Layout of equipment and how the shell meets the cabinet shows an attention to detail and how precise their manufacturing process is. I think these are some EXCELLENT individual aspects to look at when trying to determine the over all quality of a spa.
Thanks for your own input and ideas :-)
P.S cup holders would be a personal preference / design feature, and have no bearing on quality of construction
one interesting little story which relates to the above and proves that some people do care about the very minor details...sold a Limelight Flair today after 2-3 weeks of "back and forth" with a customer who was comparing us to a spa from another "Top 5" manufacturer. Customer was at said company and started feeling around the "lip" of the shell where it overlaps the cabinet, noticed how rough and unfinished that area was to the point of it being "sharp" where you could almost cut yourself on it, whereas your spa was very smooth and "finished" (his exact words, not mine)...he even said "I know its foolish but little things like that bother me" obviously a very technical/analytical person
but there ya go, a real life "the proof is in the pudding" story where minor details do matter to some
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HP and Jet count.
Would you rather have a hot tub with 15 HP and 100 jets or a hot tub with 30 jets and 3 HP. If a typical male is deciding they will always be swayed to the tub with more and more. Even though a properly engineered hot tub with 3 HP and 30 jets will have a better hydrotherapy feel at the jets than a poorly engineered tub with 15HP and 100 jets.
The wet test is the only way to determine this, and take your time, a half hour minimum.
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I have 2 jets, and 3/4 hp :-)
How about, would you rather have 100 jets pushing 1/2 GPM each, or 30 jets pushing 5 GPM each?
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Frame work. What is the frame made of? Wood? Treated or not? Metal, there are several grades and classes of this? Plastic, this to can and will get brittle? Wood 2x4's, wood 2x2's? Staples, screws? How is it put together? Sloppily or neat and tight? This is a sure sign of quality and the material really doesn't matter. Some will say one is better than another but this is nothing but hype and sales. In my 30 years around Hot Tubs I have disposed of plenty of tubs that were rotten or rusted. Never disposed of a plastic frame/supported tub yet. That will come. But the rot or rust was not a direct result of the frame simply wearing out and collapsing. A main reason for the failures was location (wet) or the tub was no longer cost affective to repair for other reasons and had some deteriorating frame work. But it has never the cause of the disposal for me. Maybe others have seen it but not me.
The frame work on any high quality tub will last the lifetime of the tub no matter what it is made of. This could be 15-20 years or more. Look at it and see how it is put together. Quality workmanship is easy to spot at the joints where wood/metal/plastic meet. But don't expect a mediocre quality tub or a value brand tub to last for 15-20 years or more no matter what the frame is made of.
Maybe your location your in and where the tub is going to be placed can decide this for you.
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Got that one Roger. And I completely agree. I've seen 20 year old spas with rotted away frames that are still standing strong....until you try to move them :)
how about, does their website display a complete copy of the warranty and make owners manuals readily available to anyone?
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Yes an available and easy to access warranty was going to be my next one. However a great warranty is crappy with a crappy dealer.