Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: steel_3d on July 01, 2013, 08:04:07 am
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I've been slowly getting familiar with hot tub technology in my quest to get my first tub. I am much less interested in marketing, brand recognition, therapy, and "wet tests". What I want is a reliable, energy efficient spa, with good filtration/sanitizing. I'm looking for the best engineered spa (and then see if I can afford it). Or possibly go for a lower end model from the best manufacturer. Looking for a large party tub at least 90x90. I do my own work on everything, so I do not wanna be spending my weekends digging the guts out of the spa a few years down the road, or paying service techs an arm and a leg. I don't mind replacing equipment, that's just money, but I do NOT want to be digging for leaks.
Marquis:
pros:
-seem to be designed for easy maintenance
-light weight foam seems easy to remove by hand (does anyone else use this foam?)
-nice equipment bay (don't know if lower models have dedicated equipment bay, didn't open one up)
-guillotine pump cutoffs
-abs pan
-glued, clamped, barb joints
-quiet
-5yr equipment warranty
cons:
-wood frame
-no circ pump (is that a con?)
-expensive for the higher end (looked at Euphoria)
Dimension One:
pros:
-nice equipment bay on higher end
-guillotine pump cutoffs on high end only
-glued, clamped, barbed
-screw-in jets
-full foam
-abs pan
-wood frame seems well connected with those "spike strips"
-lifetime cabinet warranty
cons:
-lower end models don't have dedicated equipment bay, no guillotines
-foam is hard, would be tough to remove
-wood frame
-only 3 yr equipment warranty (is their gecko stuff, especially on lower end, any good? Lang circ pump supposedly not reliable)
Any opinions on Meridian? Saw a suspiciously good "independently certified" energy rating on it (like $11 per month in LA)
Bullfrog (haven't seen in person yet, just talked to dealer):
Pros:
-full plastic construction, no wood or metal
-full foam
-highly reduced likelyhood of leaks due to jet packs being contained within the shell
-abs pan
-5yr (?) warranty
Cons:
-expensive
-jets outside of packs still contribute to leaks (?) that would mean lower end models don't get much benefit
-do jet packs take away from space inside?
I'd love an A8, but might have to settle for R7. Opinions?
Sundance/Jacuzzi/Hot Springs:
-they seem very mainstream, no special engineering to help maintainability, indeed there seem to be severe reliability issues (rare?)
-hot strings supposedly very energy efficient. Is this still true, or an old wives' tale? It's also the most expensive of the bunch for comparable models, it seems. Are Hot Spots any good?
-is Sundance Select series any good? Well made? Supposed to be efficient. Kinda small for me, unfortunately.
Should I lean towards circ pump or no circ pump?
Should I lean towards UV or CD?
Any other manufacturers with amazing engineering that I missed? Am I paying too much premium for these three brands that I quoted to make it worthwhile even in the long run, even if they're a bit better? Would I be better off with a cheap mainstream model?
If I've stated misconceptions, feel free to correct me.
But, please, let's keep the discussion technical. Go.
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misconceptions/general ramblings: I've spent 9 years in service and 4 in sales so I have a few things that you may or may not find useful
1. wood frames have been used in building spas for over 30 years..its much more cost effective than Plastic or Steel and it simply works, I have dozens of customer spas that are 15-20 years old and still standing as strong as they were day 1 with a wood frame.
2. "guillotine" pump cutoffs....2 sides to this coin, yes they can be convenient but a couple things to keep in mind...too many of them actually reduce flow, and the handles absolutely WILL fail leading to a plumbing repair down the road...normally I wouldn't consider this repair difficult but depending on where they are located in the equipment compartment I've had some that are a major pain in the a$$ to make a repair on.
3. ABS Pan...high end spas will be "sealed" off on the bottom, so if someone is selling you on an ABS pan being an upgrade...well lets just say I'm not buying what they are selling :-)
4. Circ pump is not 100% necessary but IT IS a real nice upgrade...keeps water consistently moving/filtering and it will constantly maintain temperature allowing less wear and tear on your "main" 2spd. jet pump and heater as well. Circ pump also ensures that your ozonator is actually working on a regular basis..just remember, no moving water = ozonator not working
5. I prefer CD ozone...UV bulb needs to be replaced every year..dust buildup on the bulb can lead to degraded performance (ie must open equip. compartment and wipe it off occasionally) and a good CD ozone can be had for $150-$200 online...bottom line in my opinion CD has better value overall.
confused: You stated you wanted a reliable energy efficient spa but yet you want it to have "soft foam" or "no foam?"....sorry to say, you can't have it both ways...its either insulated properly or its not..1/2lb "soft" foam isn't going to be nearly as efficient as some companies who use 2 - 3.5 lb. foam
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Sundance/Jacuzzi/Hot Springs:
-they seem very mainstream, no special engineering to help maintainability, indeed there seem to be severe reliability issues (rare?) Severe reliability issues? I don't think so! There is a reason these 3 brands are among the most well respected. They're all about about quality, reliability, energy use, great hydrotherapy. In other words they are fully engineered. As far as seeming "mainstream" and "no special engineering", maybe you mean the don't have to resort to a lot of gimmicks.
-hot strings supposedly very energy efficient. Is this still true, or an old wives' tale? It's also the most expensive of the bunch for comparable models, it seems. It is very true, Hot Spring spas are super energy efficient because they use multi density foam layers.
-Are Hot Spots any good? Yes, Hot Spots have been very well received since inceoption. They were designed to be a great value spa line for those who have a budget and are willing to skip some of the bells and whistles without compromising quality.
-Should I lean towards circ pump or no circ pump? It definitely has advantages relative to sound, energy use and its ability to keep ozone working 24/7.
-Should I lean towards UV or CD? CD is the newer technology.
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I own a Bullfrog, one of the lower end models, the 151R. The jet pack design is a pretty elegant solution to leak points that places piping and openings within in the wetted area where leaks are not an issue. The Jetpacks do not seem to eat into tub space; mine (my model only has one jetpack) is only a few inches thick and it is recessed into the shell. With only two openings through the shell at the top for the feeder pipes there are thirty or so jets in my jet pack that would have been thirty holes in the shell.
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I will only talk about the UV system THAT I OWN. It works fantastic. The cost for a new bulb is $74.99 at my hot tub store. I have pulled out my bulb to see if what I have been told by people who don't own the system and have to scare people away from the system, the tube around the bulb was still crystal clear as it was the day my tub arrived. I checked the tube when I drained my tub for its 4 month refill. My tub now is 5 months old.
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I will only talk about the UV system THAT I OWN. It works fantastic. The cost for a new bulb is $74.99 at my hot tub store. I have pulled out my bulb to see if what I have been told by people who don't own the system and have to scare people away from the system, the tube around the bulb was still crystal clear as it was the day my tub arrived. I checked the tube when I drained my tub for its 4 month refill. My tub now is 5 months old.
With UV bulbs I always tell people to change them yearly but I also let them know that the bulb will undoubtedly still be glowing in a year or two or more. The reason you change it then is because the intensity greatly diminishes over time. Many times I've seen people say they hadn't changed it in like 3 or 4 years and its still illuminating so they think its still working but it isn't doing much if anything at that point but they hadn't noticed any change.
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Thanks for the answers, guys, some good stuff in here. Keep the recommendations coming, including on brands/models, personal experiences with them, etc. What would be your pick?
confused: You stated you wanted a reliable energy efficient spa but yet you want it to have "soft foam" or "no foam?"....sorry to say, you can't have it both ways...its either insulated properly or its not..1/2lb "soft" foam isn't going to be nearly as efficient as some companies who use 2 - 3.5 lb. foam
According to the Marquis guy, they only lose "half an R" with the half pound foam. Sounds like an acceptable tradeoff, but of course I can't verify the numbers, which is why I'm looking for first hand info. Marquis still does full foam.
Btw, is there a difference regarding open or closed cell foams? I was just thinking an open cell foam could get nasty with a leak...
Severe reliability issues? I don't think so! There is a reason these 3 brands are among the most well respected. They're all about about quality, reliability, energy use, great hydrotherapy. In other words they are fully engineered. As far as seeming "mainstream" and "no special engineering", maybe you mean the don't have to resort to a lot of gimmicks.
I happen to think the reliability/efficiency related features I brought up will make my life easier/better in the long run. At least I perceive value in them. The standard spas would have to make up in other ways. Last problem free past five years (not from what I've seen around this board), higher efficiency (maybe), lower price...
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2. "guillotine" pump cutoffs....2 sides to this coin, yes they can be convenient but a couple things to keep in mind...too many of them actually reduce flow, and the handles absolutely WILL fail leading to a plumbing repair down the road...normally I wouldn't consider this repair difficult but depending on where they are located in the equipment compartment I've had some that are a major pain in the a$$ to make a repair on.
I can attest to that one.
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If given a choice select CD Ozone.
Highest concentration of ozone that can be produced by 185-nm UV lamp is 0.2 percent by weight, approximately 10% of the average concentration available by corona discharge.
Considerable more electrical energy is required to produce a given quantity of ozone by UV radiation than by corona discharge.
From:
http://www.ozoneapplications.com/info/cd_vs_uv.htm (http://www.ozoneapplications.com/info/cd_vs_uv.htm)
Also, Consider using Nature2 or similar. It can reduce your chemical levels required to achieve proper sanitation.
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If given a choice select CD Ozone.
From:
http://www.ozoneapplications.com/info/cd_vs_uv.htm (http://www.ozoneapplications.com/info/cd_vs_uv.htm)
Also, Consider using Nature2 or similar. It can reduce your chemical levels required to achieve proper sanitation.
I don't think I'm highjacking here but concerning the Nature2, does that make the reading of strips different, or do you just have to guess at how much to cut back on chems? I'm interested in trying the Nature2, but I don't know how to tell how much it actually helps in the chemical part.
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If given a choice select CD Ozone.
Highest concentration of ozone that can be produced by 185-nm UV lamp is 0.2 percent by weight, approximately 10% of the average concentration available by corona discharge.
Considerable more electrical energy is required to produce a given quantity of ozone by UV radiation than by corona discharge.
From:
http://www.ozoneapplications.com/info/cd_vs_uv.htm (http://www.ozoneapplications.com/info/cd_vs_uv.htm)
Also, Consider using Nature2 or similar. It can reduce your chemical levels required to achieve proper sanitation.
Critical to CD ozone systems is proper air preparation. The gas feeding the ozone generator must be very dry (minimum -80 degrees F),
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Severe reliability issues? I don't think so! There is a reason these 3 brands are among the most well respected. They're all about about quality, reliability, energy use, great hydrotherapy. In other words they are fully engineered. As far as seeming "mainstream" and "no special engineering", maybe you mean the don't have to resort to a lot of gimmicks.
I happen to think the reliability/efficiency related features I brought up will make my life easier/better in the long run. At least I perceive value in them. The standard spas would have to make up in other ways. Last problem free past five years (not from what I've seen around this board), higher efficiency (maybe), lower price...
I'm not sure what features you've been told make those other spas better than a Hot Spring (or Jacuzzi or Sundance). Marketing groups and sales people can be great at telling you why you want your spa made their way. I'll go by field data. When you find spas out there that are still running strong at 15 and 20 years theres a good chance its a Hot Spring. Mines at 14 and I literally have two neighbors who want it if I get a new spa because they know how well it still works.
Also, Hot Spring uses the lower R-vlaue half pound foam as the final filler. The half pound may be easier to remove but its the other densities that make our spas clearly more efficient than a spa that just uses half pound.
Keep researching, listen to every pitch with an open mind but don't take every claim at face value. In the end get the spa that speaks to you.
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I will only talk about the UV system THAT I OWN. It works fantastic. The cost for a new bulb is $74.99 at my hot tub store. I have pulled out my bulb to see if what I have been told by people who don't own the system and have to scare people away from the system, the tube around the bulb was still crystal clear as it was the day my tub arrived. I checked the tube when I drained my tub for its 4 month refill. My tub now is 5 months old.
why would anyone scare someone away from it? OP simply asked which way to go and I replied with CD is a better value:
lets assume both are incl. with the spa: typical CD ozone has a 5 year lifespan.....5 years of UV bulbs $74.99 x 5 = $375 Replacement CD ozone cost for a Jed 103 = $99-$125...both are equally effective...now I'm no mathematician but CD seems like a better value to me, your mileage may vary
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With UV ozone, from the very first day you turn it on, it puts out a wee bit less ozone each day. Yes the lamp remains lit, but the frequency of the light begins changing, producing less and less ozone. Most UV bulbs are rated at 10,000 hours (there's 8760 hours ion a year)...but most don't realize that the electrical surge of turning them ON, eats up roughly 4 hours of that life.
CD ozone puts out a constant amount of ozone until the chip dies (and the cheaper versions require the chip be replaced annually). One of the down sides to CD ozone is the production of nitric acid
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If given a choice select CD Ozone.
From:
http://www.ozoneapplications.com/info/cd_vs_uv.htm (http://www.ozoneapplications.com/info/cd_vs_uv.htm)
Also, Consider using Nature2 or similar. It can reduce your chemical levels required to achieve proper sanitation.
I don't think I'm highjacking here but concerning the Nature2, does that make the reading of strips different, or do you just have to guess at how much to cut back on chems? I'm interested in trying the Nature2, but I don't know how to tell how much it actually helps in the chemical part.
The claim is you can run as low as .5 ppm of free chlorine with an N2 cartridge in place (following all guides for use).
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The Sundance dealer, whose tubs use UV, told me that CD degrades plastic and rubber components faster. Is this a big enough drawback? Why did Sundance switch to UV? I assume they were using CD before...
Off-topic, but there have been studies showing that ozone reaction byproducts are harmful to health. Have any studies been done on the health effects of hot tub ozone?
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And if we could get back on topic and tell me which of these models/manufacturers you'd choose on the basis of reliability, maintainability and efficiency.
Thanks
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If given a choice select CD Ozone.
From:
http://www.ozoneapplications.com/info/cd_vs_uv.htm (http://www.ozoneapplications.com/info/cd_vs_uv.htm)
Also, Consider using Nature2 or similar. It can reduce your chemical levels required to achieve proper sanitation.
I don't think I'm highjacking here but concerning the Nature2, does that make the reading of strips different, or do you just have to guess at how much to cut back on chems? I'm interested in trying the Nature2, but I don't know how to tell how much it actually helps in the chemical part.
The claim is you can run as low as .5 ppm of free chlorine with an N2 cartridge in place (following all guides for use).
Thank you, vango!
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The Sundance dealer, whose tubs use UV, told me that CD degrades plastic and rubber components faster. Is this a big enough drawback? Why did Sundance switch to UV? I assume they were using CD before...
Off-topic, but there have been studies showing that ozone reaction byproducts are harmful to health. Have any studies been done on the health effects of hot tub ozone?
I can't speak of any specific studies but I know I did sell a tub about 6 months ago and the lady wanted us to disconnect the factory installed ozone before we delivered it. I didn't really get into specifics but she claimed respiratory issues with breathing in ozone could lead to some serious problems for her. This is the first time I've heard anything about it, so I'd have to do a little more research
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And if we could get back on topic and tell me which of these models/manufacturers you'd choose on the basis of reliability, maintainability and efficiency.
Thanks
There is no "best" spa manufacturer so if you're hoping someone can tell you which is "the one" it just can't happen though there will certainly be opinions on the matter. For instance my short list would include Caldera, D1, Hot Springs, Jacuzzi and Sundance but while others may have similar lists they will from person to person and some may just list a single maker. Just be sure those on your short list aren't on the "stay the hell away from them" list lol. In the end wet test and go with what makes the most sense to you. Listen to the sales people but always remember they have a sales pitch and have a stake in your desicion so when they tell you why theirs is better listen and ask questions but keep a degree of skepticism handy.
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I can't speak of any specific studies but I know I did sell a tub about 6 months ago and the lady wanted us to disconnect the factory installed ozone before we delivered it. I didn't really get into specifics but she claimed respiratory issues with breathing in ozone could lead to some serious problems for her. This is the first time I've heard anything about it, so I'd have to do a little more research
Over the years, I've actually heard this with some frequency. Specifically people that were having asthma attacks while using or near their spas. Disconnecting the ozonator stopped the attacks. Ozone is a KNOW respiratory "irritant" and, the EPA considers ozone as a dangerous air pollutant (google, epa ozone regulations).
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My personal opinion is that Bullfrog spas has the most revolutionary design in the entire industry. From top to bottom, they have created an extremely well made spa that offers unparalleled hydrotherapy. Fyi, the jetpaks do not take away from inside space. As a matter of fact, they create more space. If you compare tubs of the same overall size, the Bullfrog will most likely contain more gallons. For example;
The hot spring pulse is 7'5" x 7'5" x 38". The Bullfrog A7 is 7'4" x 7'4" x 36" which is a little bit smaller. The hot spring has 380 gallons and the smaller Bullfrog has 430 gallons. This is yet another advantage to the JetPak design. The manifold on the back of the JetPaks is lower profile than traditional plumbing and fittings.
http://www.hotspring.com/shop-hot-tub-models/limelight/pulse
http://www.bullfrogspas.com/listings/display/140/40/a7
As to wood frames, there was just a thread the other day where a guy was asking about replacing a rotted wood frame component. Wood rots, plain and simple. Metal rusts. Plastic will not rust, rot or corrode.
ABS bottom is also a good thing. It keeps moisture, rodents, and insects out of the hot tub. Also, without this, a wood framed hot tub will have wood directly touching the ground. I have replaced hundreds of older wood tubs with no abs base and many of them had evidence of rodents and rotting wood. Sometimes they just fall apart when you try to pick them up. Hot Spring at least uses treated wood for their base, and hard foam to seal the bottom. Last I saw one though, the rest of the wood was not treated.
I'm not saying that the other tubs listed are not good. In fact, as mentioned earlier, they have excellent reputations for a reason. Having seen Bullfrog Spas dismissed here by some of the other guys, I just want to make sure that they are accurately represented. In the last 7-8 years, Bullfrog has really stepped up their game. They are an amazing hot tub and my favorite hands down. For the record, I have worked with most of the other listed tubs over the last 17 years.
As to circ pumps, there is one factor that is never discussed. As far as I know, Circ pumps are generally in a closed loop, meaning that they do not tie into the rest of the jet plumbing. This means that when the circ pump is running, the water in the jet lines is not being circulated. That water only gets moved when jet pump kicks on. This may have been addressed by some manufacturers, but as far as I know, this is how most systems with a circ pump work. Please correct me if I am wrong. I'm not saying this is a reason to avoid circ pumps, it is just another factor that I don't see accounted for in discussions.
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My personal opinion is that Bullfrog spas has the most revolutionary design in the entire industry. From top to bottom, they have created an extremely well made spa that offers unparalleled hydrotherapy. Fyi, the jetpaks do not take away from inside space. As a matter of fact, they create more space. If you compare tubs of the same overall size, the Bullfrog will most likely contain more gallons. For example;
The hot spring pulse is 7'5" x 7'5" x 38". The Bullfrog A7 is 7'4" x 7'4" x 36" which is a little bit smaller. The hot spring has 380 gallons and the smaller Bullfrog has 430 gallons. This is yet another advantage to the JetPak design. The manifold on the back of the JetPaks is lower profile than traditional plumbing and fittings.
http://www.hotspring.com/shop-hot-tub-models/limelight/pulse
http://www.bullfrogspas.com/listings/display/140/40/a7
As to wood frames, there was just a thread the other day where a guy was asking about replacing a rotted wood frame component. Wood rots, plain and simple. Metal rusts. Plastic will not rust, rot or corrode.
ABS bottom is also a good thing. It keeps moisture, rodents, and insects out of the hot tub. Also, without this, a wood framed hot tub will have wood directly touching the ground. I have replaced hundreds of older wood tubs with no abs base and many of them had evidence of rodents and rotting wood. Sometimes they just fall apart when you try to pick them up. Hot Spring at least uses treated wood for their base, and hard foam to seal the bottom. Last I saw one though, the rest of the wood was not treated.
I'm not saying that the other tubs listed are not good. In fact, as mentioned earlier, they have excellent reputations for a reason. Having seen Bullfrog Spas dismissed here by some of the other guys, I just want to make sure that they are accurately represented. In the last 7-8 years, Bullfrog has really stepped up their game. They are an amazing hot tub and my favorite hands down. For the record, I have worked with most of the other listed tubs over the last 17 years.
As to circ pumps, there is one factor that is never discussed. As far as I know, Circ pumps are generally in a closed loop, meaning that they do not tie into the rest of the jet plumbing. This means that when the circ pump is running, the water in the jet lines is not being circulated. That water only gets moved when jet pump kicks on. This may have been addressed by some manufacturers, but as far as I know, this is how most systems with a circ pump work. Please correct me if I am wrong. I'm not saying this is a reason to avoid circ pumps, it is just another factor that I don't see accounted for in discussions.
Plastic has it downsides...Hot Springs went to a plastic frame for almost year in '08-'09....it was pulled because the engineers didn't like its performance in the field...I believe one of the main issues was expansion/contraction in varied weather climates. Apparently they are working on something new for upcoming years...bottom line in my opinion is the material doesn't matter as much on its own, its more how the spa is built overall
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My personal opinion is that Bullfrog spas has the most revolutionary design in the entire industry. From top to bottom, they have created an extremely well made spa that offers unparalleled hydrotherapy. Fyi, the jetpaks do not take away from inside space. As a matter of fact, they create more space. If you compare tubs of the same overall size, the Bullfrog will most likely contain more gallons. For example;
The hot spring pulse is 7'5" x 7'5" x 38". The Bullfrog A7 is 7'4" x 7'4" x 36" which is a little bit smaller. The hot spring has 380 gallons and the smaller Bullfrog has 430 gallons. This is yet another advantage to the JetPak design. The manifold on the back of the JetPaks is lower profile than traditional plumbing and fittings.
http://www.hotspring.com/shop-hot-tub-models/limelight/pulse
http://www.bullfrogspas.com/listings/display/140/40/a7
As to wood frames, there was just a thread the other day where a guy was asking about replacing a rotted wood frame component. Wood rots, plain and simple. Metal rusts. Plastic will not rust, rot or corrode.
ABS bottom is also a good thing. It keeps moisture, rodents, and insects out of the hot tub. Also, without this, a wood framed hot tub will have wood directly touching the ground. I have replaced hundreds of older wood tubs with no abs base and many of them had evidence of rodents and rotting wood. Sometimes they just fall apart when you try to pick them up. Hot Spring at least uses treated wood for their base, and hard foam to seal the bottom. Last I saw one though, the rest of the wood was not treated.
I'm not saying that the other tubs listed are not good. In fact, as mentioned earlier, they have excellent reputations for a reason. Having seen Bullfrog Spas dismissed here by some of the other guys, I just want to make sure that they are accurately represented. In the last 7-8 years, Bullfrog has really stepped up their game. They are an amazing hot tub and my favorite hands down. For the record, I have worked with most of the other listed tubs over the last 17 years.
As to circ pumps, there is one factor that is never discussed. As far as I know, Circ pumps are generally in a closed loop, meaning that they do not tie into the rest of the jet plumbing. This means that when the circ pump is running, the water in the jet lines is not being circulated. That water only gets moved when jet pump kicks on. This may have been addressed by some manufacturers, but as far as I know, this is how most systems with a circ pump work. Please correct me if I am wrong. I'm not saying this is a reason to avoid circ pumps, it is just another factor that I don't see accounted for in discussions.
I'm glad you said "in my personal opinion" at the beginning.
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One other plug for Bullfrog.
When I bought mine and the guy came to set it up, I went out to talk with him. He said he was recruited by the Spa dealer because of his experience and skills in spa and pool installation (he is their main spa installer and pool construction supervisor).
He told me one of his conditions for going to work for them, was that they take on Bullfrog Spas as a line. He insisted on it, he said, because of how well they were designed and built. He told me the dealer at his urging checked out Bullfrog and liked it so much they became a Bullfrog dealer.
It's hearsay, I know, but that's what he told me.
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Sam, what is your opinion of D1 and Marquis in terms of reliability and maintainability?
I'll be checking out the bullfrog dealer this weekend. Hope they're not completely out of my price range.
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D1 and Marquis are great spas. Very reliable and certainly should be in the discussion along side other high-end tubs. I have not seen either of them in a few years, so I am unsure of the current designs, but they have a reputation for being among the best.
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The Marquis is pretty hard to beat when it comes to fit and finish. Great filtration system, construction, warranty, and a company that is known for standing behind the product. The other ones you are looking at are good options as well, make sure to look "under the hood". Good luck in your search.
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I can only speak from my experience with Marquis... I have an Epic originally purchased in 2005. There was an issue with the shell and in 2008, Marquis replaced my tub. Just last month, the back light in my control panel went so that meant a replacement. The cost was $500.00 but that was the first issue that I paid to resolve in almost 8 years of ownership. The warranty is great and I had no problems with service. I think that is a reflection of an excellent dealer as well as a quality product.
My tub is very efficient and I run all winter in Economy mode. That means that the tub only runs and filters at manually set times (I set mine for two times a day a total of 3 hours ). My tub does not have a circ pump and therefore in standard mode it would circulate the water and maintain the temperature using one of the main pumps. I live in Pennsylvania and we do get cold winters, but I am able to maintain temperature and keep a very clean tub in economy mode.
I have the spa frog and use bromine. It is built into the tub and does a great job. I left the tub for 18 days and it was perfect when we returned.
We chose the Epic because of the amazing therapy that the tub offered. That was my first consideration. It is also large and can accommodate 5 to 6 adults with no problem.
I can honestly say I would buy another Marquis, based on my experience, but I really expect this tub to last a long time. Hope this helps :)
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Marquis has very nice jets. Are they still using the HK's? Or what ever they were called.
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Yeah, I think I remember the salesman calling them HK.
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Yes, most Marquis Signature Series models have the HK40 (40 gallon per minute) jets. Some models also have geyser jets for feet and back in some positions that put out 60+ gallons per minute.