Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: gspar on May 31, 2013, 03:30:03 am
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I was recently quoted $17,000 for a 2013 J480 that includes taxes and delivery fees and no stereo option. I think this is high compared to what others have paid on-line and would like to know what should this tub sell for with everything included. I love this tub, but at that price it should be a J495. Does anyone know if I can go to another dealer in another geographical area and buy it from them if its cheaper, or dealers never take sales away from other dealers territories? If I could go to another town, would my local guy still service it when it breaks?
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I was recently quoted $17,000 for a 2013 J480 that includes taxes and delivery fees and no stereo option. I think this is high compared to what others have paid on-line and would like to know what should this tub sell for with everything included. I love this tub, but at that price it should be a J495. Does anyone know if I can go to another dealer in another geographical area and buy it from them if its cheaper, or dealers never take sales away from other dealers territories? If I could go to another town, would my local guy still service it when it breaks?
$17k? Is it gold plated? If you go to another dealer they'd have to be willing to service it in your area but you can try. At least you could see what prices they have so you can get an idea of what is reasonable for your area. I'm not sure where you live but thats really high unless you're in Europe or maybe Hawaii.
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nope hes right,ive said it a million times long island tub prices are ridiculous!
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nope hes right,ive said it a million times long island tub prices are ridiculous!
Well in that case I'd see who else is available and if they're further away to the point that I have to pay $100 for a travel fee every time they have to come out for service (warranty or afterward) then I'd be fine with paying it knowing it came from the thousands I saved going elsewhere.
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I went to the Hot Tub Factory in Bohemia (Jason and Mike the owners). Unfortunately this is the only Jacuzzi dealer on Long Island and for parts of Queens. I called Jacuzzi in California and they told me the MSRP for the J480 2013 without the stereo option is $17,200. So not only did they start negotiating with a figure of $18,200, they acted like I was getting a good deal when they took money off for their spring sale and eventually threw in some extras like steps and filters. And after all of that, I still would be paying MSRP + tax and delivery of $300. This is like going into a car dealership, seeing the MSRP sticker in the window and saying " uumm MSRP is OK but I think I'll give you an extra thousand". Jacuzzi said there is a dealer in Nutley N.J. I could try and to service it there is an authorized service tech not far from me I could use. In a normal situation, what else would the dealer do for me anyway? I told Jacuzzi this guy is insane and they said it is a problem they can't do anything about. Does anyone know what would be a fair deal for this tub including tax and delivery in the N.Y. metro area? If MSRP is $17K, what is the mark up on these things?
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Those guys are "used car salesman" but trust me I know who they are and they want the sale..you have to get tough and tell them exactly what you are willing to pay,and show them you are serious and willing to buy relatively soon..good luck
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Sounds like those guys have a monopoly going! Lowest I have gone recently is 11,500 on a J-480 12,500 with stereo. Also like Jacuzzi told you it's not up to them to dictate price from a dealer. Personally I would go in if you are that interested, tell them what you are will to pay within reason see what happens. I doubt they will go below 11 but you never know unless you ask.
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Jim sell them the tub just add the difference in shipping ,still save them from getting ripped off ,win win for everyone
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I'd just tell them your not going to pay full blown MSRP, and talk to a manager, tell him you have 12-13k (based on Jim's range of reasonable price) in your pocket to spend and if they don't want your money you'll find someone who does. Either they will work with you or tell you to go pound sand..either way you'll know for sure at that point
edit: as a point of reference I believe at the home show last March that model was selling for $12,995 here in MN, (not sure if that included stereo or not) I realize MN isn't Long Island but 4k more is just flat out ridiculous imo
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If you're willing to look at Hot Springs, visit Ocean Spray Hot Tubs in Melville. They are not the used-car salesman type and very low pressure. I have yet to buy a tub (new not in my budget right now), but I'd buy from them without hesitation. The rest of the shops on Rt. 110 were turn offs as was my experience with the Jacuzzi dealer you spoke to. They quoted my ridiculously high prices and were pressuring me to sign on the spot.
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These guys at the hot tub factory are running a tent sale June 7-9th "up to 50% off jacuzzi" maybe you can actually get a decent deal.i just got the email
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Thank you for all of your suggestions. It's nice to have a place where I can get honest answers and not feel like I'm being screwed. I will ask them about their tent sale and make them an offer. Like you said, if they tell me "too bad" then I'll try N.J. With this economy and the amount of money these things cost they should be bending over backwards for me!! I'll let you know how it turns out.
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These guys at the hot tub factory are running a tent sale June 7-9th "up to 50% off jacuzzi" maybe you can actually get a decent deal.i just got the email
50% off!?!?!? I wish I could get away with margins that allowed me to take that much off and still make money. Sounds like a shady sales tactic to me.
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It's def shady..but I think with there "50% off" a jacuzzi brand tub might be in the right price range
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We live on Long island and recently purchased a J480 from Nutley pools & spas Just across the GWB in Nultey NJ for $12500 and No tax or delivery charge ( no tax collected since they have no physical business in NY)
Run, don;t walk out of that dealer. When we were in the market for that tub we went to The Hot tub factory and like always, they never quite a "price for the tub, always telling you that it's a $20,000 tub. Well when I was finally trying to get a price out of him, maybe at the time they were indicating it was in the $14,000 range I indicated that seemed a bit high then the idiot had the nerve to tell me , "Well, if you can't afford that price, we have cheaper tubs". This is where I lost it and decided I had to find another place. We then spoke to another dealer in POrt Jeff that had recently stopped selling Jacuzzi and he had an old J470 on the floor, he was still a bit high, but knowing his only competition on LI was the "Hot Tub Factory, he thought he could get away with it.
We then called Nutley Pools & Spas and Morro was WONDERFUL. he would have been happy to do the transaction over the phone but we decided to drive there as it was not that far and we were heading to NJ that weekend anyway. What a great showroom and he gave us the no hassle price right away and we ordered it. He said he will also service it as he has many clients in the area.
Delivery went well and we love our spa and could not beat the price. To this day I am still holding myself back from going to see "The Hot Tub Guys " and telling them what scam artists they are.
Please I beg you go see Morro and you will be quite pleased. Everything the "Hot Tub Guys " say is basically full of s%$t.
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These guys at the hot tub factory are running a tent sale June 7-9th "up to 50% off jacuzzi" maybe you can actually get a decent deal.i just got the email
UP to....?
So, what, one floor model from 3 years ago that's being sold at 50% off MSRP, and the rest at....10% off MSRP?
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not sure..they are very used car salesman like..but i know they are greedy guys..if someone makes them a serious offer and they have the tub in stock they will sell it...its unfortunate they are really the only jacuzzi brand dealers on the island
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Read my last post. Don't waste your time. Nutley will service on Long Island, they do wuite a bit of business in NY because they are so close to Manhattan.
BTW, the ot tub should not be in stock for them to give you a good deal, that is another piece of BS they spin. When we went to Nutley, we asked what he had in stock, he said he really does not stock them since he would rather sell people what they want. So my $12,500 price included a special order.
If theyare stocking so many hot tubs they must be charging a high price so they can pay all those carrying costs. if they have one in stock, without a radio tell them $11,500 take ir or leave it, hell you can get exactly what you want at Nutley for that price. Hey, go even lower then. Their sales pitch is we can give you such a great price on the tub becasue we have it in stock and we buy in buk. Yeah, $17,00 is a great price, plus tax......
If you want, see what Jacuizzi will be trucking in, but don't buy their BS price and strong arm tactics.
Oh, and i think the J495 was only $1000 at Nutley.
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i totally agree with you..i tried to deal with them on a cheaper tub..he was 2500 more on a 4000 tub,i personally wouldnt buy anything from them because i just dont want to do bus with people like that,but nif they dont want to deal with jersey they are the only ones on the island..
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True, but I saved at least $2500 by going to NJ. It's worth a call. You can always wet test local and order from Nutley. No harm since The Hot TubGuys are ripping you off anyway.
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Wow!! Again thank you for all your advice. I will call Nutley today. I was even prepared to give them a $100 bucks for a service call just to come to Port Jefferson, but as you say they come here anyway. The 50% "sale" at the Hot Tub Factory is a floor model sale and he didn't offer any money off for the J480 because he knows I really want that tub. Instead Mike offered a J465 and lied to me again telling me the MSRP is over $17,000. Doesn't he know that you can just call Jacuzzi and they will give you the MSRP over the phone? The J480 which is a better tub without the stereo has a MSRP of $17,200. These guys are so full of crap. If I were Jacuzzi I would take the dealership rights away from them because they are driving everyone to other brands. Or even other states.
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just go with jersey..he lied to you already,,imagine trying to deal with him on a service call!
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To "MaryPhil" just a quick question before I call. Did you get the J480 with or without the stereo and did anything else come with the tub like steps, chemicals, cover lifter etc. I assume it came with a cover. Some of these guys say they will throw it in as a bonus but it really is part of the tub. When I spoke to Jacuzzi the other day, they said there is also a licensed/approved tech in Coram Long Island if you needed add'l options for someone to work on it if there is a problem with N.J.
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Hi Gspar,
We did not get the radio, for the extra $1000 it was not really worth it to us. besides we felt the marine grade speakers will degrade and corrode in time. For much less we got the most awesome pair of outdoor speakers that sound better than any i-pod attachment.
As for the hot tub package from Nutley it came with the tub, delivery, stairs, and a spa starter kit. My husband is an electrician so we did not need any hook up. if that is a service you need you can ask him but that may be additional.
I hope you enjoy your experience at Nutley, it changed my mind totally about how shady these hot tub salesman are.
Once you get that new tub from NJ and can spend that extra $5000 on cool things are you gonna swing by the "Hot Tub Guys" and tell them to go scratch?
I do think a nicely worded letter to Jacuzzi after the fact may help as well because it would make sense for them to look for a new LI distributor. While it is perfectly legal to ask full MSRP, they are losing some sales and damaging the Jacuzzi reputation.
Let me know how your call to Nutley goes.
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sorry It also included the cover & cover lifter. So yes, it was a complete delivery.
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Check out my previous post from last year when we bought a brand new J-480 w. stereo and covermate lifter III for less than $8,800 including all taxes and delivery fees. It was during a truckload event and was in stock. They would have ordered any without stereo for $9,200 plus tax. We visited 20+ hot tub stores for both Sundance and Jacuzzi. Keep a spreadsheet of prices and out the door cost and you should be able to offer $10,000 anywhere in the US and get the J480. The speakers are absoultly worth the price. I was told the dealer cost was $600. Offer them $10,600 plus taxes in cash, or you'll walk.
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Thanks Kirra, I am waiting to hear back from Morro at Nutley Pool and Spa in NJ that I called a few days ago and asked for the same deal that "MaryPhil" had. Already he said the price had gone up on the J480 since she bought it in Feb of 2013 and would not want to give me the steps and the cover lifter for $12,500 without stereo. He did not want to talk price on the phone and would mail me a proposal instead. Even if he offers me the same price minus the add'l things it is so far ahead of our Long Island dealer I would buy it. If the price is too high, then doing something like you did would be my next step. The only problem is the further you go, the greater the delivery cost and finding someone to service it. Luckily I have a certified Jacuzzi tech here. I am wondering about the truck sale and how could I get a list of areas that are having it or will be having it in the future.
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So from what I've been told, dealer cost is about $8,000 even for a J-480 if it's a high volume dealer. With a Stereo which is completly worth it (and at first there was no way I was going to spend that much on the stereo, especially considering that they are only warranted for one year) dealer cost is still under $9,000. I've looked everywhere, online and in person in Northern California and Colorado. At first, I wanted a Sundance and almost bought one for $11,000 out the door for a new Cameo with Stereo after serious negotiations. Then I found a large dealer that had both Jacuzzi and Sundance in stock and both hot tubs filled for testing. After experiencing the J-480 jets, they were somewhat stronger than the Sundance Cameo or Maxxus which closed the deal for me because of my back pain. Both Sundance had stronger foot jets if that more important to you.
As to my dealer search, I didn't buy local in town because 1. he only carried Sundance and wouldn't order Jacuzzi and 2. he kept going back and forth with the price giving me all sorts of stories. He was $1,200 more for the Cameo that a dealer 40 miles away and told me that I out to be supporting local in town businesses. When I found the Jacuzzi dealer at a home and garden show and showed him my spreadsheet with cost, options, and out the door cost from over 15 dealers on Jacuzzi, Sundance, Hot Springs, Artic etc, and told him that I was in a position to pay cash (actually I put in on my credit card for cash back) and that I was offered $11,000 for the Sundance Cameo or $13,000 for the Sundance Maxxus (2013 models ordered to my specs), he told me that he was having a truck load event in two weeks. He flat out told me his cost was $7,999 for J-480 and that he had received this one for free, so he would sell it to me for his normal cost. He stated that he could order a new one w. out radio for $9,100 and still make $1,100 on the deal.
I'd be really careful with the dealers you visited, as they seem like unethical used car salesman. Just be honest and offer them what you think your willing to live with and what's included in the deal. Personally, there's no way cost has gone up between 2012 or 2013 models. That's pure BS. If it sounds stupid, it probably is... Most of these guys will do anything to get you to pay premium price. If it was me, I'd have them "order" your specific shell and cabinet color you want w. radio and tell them you want the Covermate III, all taxes paid and delivered for $11,000.00 for the first pitch. Raise it to no more than $12,000 and tell them you will walk and let everyone know how overpriced they are. Be nice and firm, and make sure your talking to the owner and not a salesperson. Don't get anything but the Covermate III for the J-480 unless you have it sitting in a deck. They must make a specific bracket for the J-480 since it's so big. Don't worry about the steps, they going to give you something that's plastic and worth about $50.00. Just go buy your own on Amazon. Basically, make it a very simple transaction for them and they just made some money for about an hour's time plus delivery cost.
No one charges delivery cost if it's within 50 to 100 miles. I paid a $300.00 delivery cost since I was over 100 miles. Be warned, never pay with a check or cash. Always use a credit card (not debit) in this industry so if you have a problem, your protected and can get your money back by the bank. Don't get pressured into anything.
Check Facebook webpages for both Sundance and Jacuzzi Corporate pages. They list the truckload events on it and on the corporate websites. I'd be more focused on the price that the "service" your going to get later on years down the line.
Check out http://www.hottubworks.com/HotTubChemicals/ for your chemicals. During sales, they are normally 50% cheaper than the local stores.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Sundance+Cameo&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#pq=%22sundance+cameo%22+%2B+reviews&hl=en&sugexp=pfwl&cp=15&gs_id=5z&xhr=t&q=sundance+cameo+reviews&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=%22sundance+cameo+reviews&aq=0&aqi=g1&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&fp=5bd145500fad8bd6&biw=1916&bih=906&bs=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&cad=b&sei=eX62UYOtBNXk4APN2oCICg
http://www.google.com/#output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=Jaccuzi+J-400+reviews&oq=Jaccuzi+J-400+reviews&gs_l=hp.3..0i22i30.2056.10875.0.11091.25.23.2.0.0.0.104.1260.22j1.23.0...0.0.0..1c.1.16.psy-ab.JCLpwj7Dhi8&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.47534661,d.dmg&fp=5bd145500fad8bd6&biw=1842&bih=963
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&q=Jaccuzi+J-480+reviews&oq=Jaccuzi+J-480+reviews&gs_l=hp.3..0i22i30.48432.50442.1.50634.11.10.0.0.0.0.169.665.7j2.9.0...0.0.0..1c.1.16.psy-ab.z-NL5u50zaI&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.47534661,d.dmg&fp=5bd145500fad8bd6&biw=1842&bih=963
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&q=Jaccuzi+J-480+price&oq=Jaccuzi+J-480+price&gs_l=hp.3..0i13j0i22i30l3.17883.20126.2.20421.14.11.3.0.0.0.163.830.10j1.11.0...0.0.0..1c.1.16.psy-ab.gCmQp5R8IdI&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.47534661,d.dmg&fp=5bd145500fad8bd6&biw=1842&bih=963
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&q=Jaccuzi+J-480+cost&oq=Jaccuzi+J-480+cost&gs_l=hp.3..0i22i30l3.15571.16092.3.16611.4.4.0.0.0.0.58.208.4.4.0...0.0.0..1c.1.16.psy-ab.qh6E8sS8eFI&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.47534661,d.dmg&fp=5bd145500fad8bd6&biw=1842&bih=963
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Ya know I don't usually say this, but you don't have a clue on what you are talking about. Cost, shipping delivery and what not. I will say that dealer is a ways high price wise, but as far as cost from Jacuzzi you have no idea. All you did was post a bunch of internet here say crap. Good lord and for Pete's sake!! My brilliant 12 year old son on Sunday put his Ipod in the microwave because he read on line somewhere that it would charge faster, he fried it. Lesson learned. Unless you are a dealer, which I don't believe you are, don't go spouting off what you think is true, is not! You want to talk about un ethical salesman yes they may be. But "you" have no idea what you are talking about regarding cost are from Jacuzzi to a dealer!
Now all that being said, it's great you researched it and did some kind of spread sheet. But most reputable dealers are really pretty good to deal with, yes some are the used car dealer type like Terminator ;) But many are not. You cannot fault the dealer for trying to make a living. They have overhead and bills to pay just like you, And if the market demands it they will charge it, I don't care what brand it is! And some will low ball the heck out of it to get a sale.
So do us and the potential buyer a favor and just give "your" honest input abut the spa, not some pricing that you have no clue about. The other thing is you are in Nor Cal or so. This person is on Long island, hello it's the other side of the country. Not 200 miles or so north of where they are built! If you are a dealer doubtful but great. Sounds like you own a Jacuzzi why don't you tell him how you like it, Or not.
Also you owe me a new keyboard! Cause I spit beer all over it reading you post!!
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Kirra,
Your post assumes that every spa dealer is unethical and out to get you. Maybe you think you're some kind of genius because you got an awesome price, but you really have to understand that no one is making a fortune by selling anyone a hot tub. This is not the industry for that. Like Jacuzzi Jim said, dealers have overhead, employee pay, insurance, and more to pay for. Then you have the 100 miles each way in gas and time, then the time to set up your hot tub. That's expensive. People just want to put food on their plate, I think you are to quick to assume they want to unjustly steal from you...
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So from what I've been told, dealer cost is about $8,000 even for a J-480 if it's a high volume dealer. With a Stereo which is completly worth it (and at first there was no way I was going to spend that much on the stereo, especially considering that they are only warranted for one year) dealer cost is still under $9,000. I've looked everywhere, online and in person in Northern California and Colorado. At first, I wanted a Sundance and almost bought one for $11,000 out the door for a new Cameo with Stereo after serious negotiations. Then I found a large dealer that had both Jacuzzi and Sundance in stock and both hot tubs filled for testing. After experiencing the J-480 jets, they were somewhat stronger than the Sundance Cameo or Maxxus which closed the deal for me because of my back pain. Both Sundance had stronger foot jets if that more important to you.
As to my dealer search, I didn't buy local in town because 1. he only carried Sundance and wouldn't order Jacuzzi and 2. he kept going back and forth with the price giving me all sorts of stories. He was $1,200 more for the Cameo that a dealer 40 miles away and told me that I out to be supporting local in town businesses. When I found the Jacuzzi dealer at a home and garden show and showed him my spreadsheet with cost, options, and out the door cost from over 15 dealers on Jacuzzi, Sundance, Hot Springs, Artic etc, and told him that I was in a position to pay cash (actually I put in on my credit card for cash back) and that I was offered $11,000 for the Sundance Cameo or $13,000 for the Sundance Maxxus (2013 models ordered to my specs), he told me that he was having a truck load event in two weeks. He flat out told me his cost was $7,999 for J-480 and that he had received this one for free, so he would sell it to me for his normal cost. He stated that he could order a new one w. out radio for $9,100 and still make $1,100 on the deal.
I'd be really careful with the dealers you visited, as they seem like unethical used car salesman. Just be honest and offer them what you think your willing to live with and what's included in the deal. Personally, there's no way cost has gone up between 2012 or 2013 models. That's pure BS. If it sounds stupid, it probably is... Most of these guys will do anything to get you to pay premium price. If it was me, I'd have them "order" your specific shell and cabinet color you want w. radio and tell them you want the Covermate III, all taxes paid and delivered for $11,000.00 for the first pitch. Raise it to no more than $12,000 and tell them you will walk and let everyone know how overpriced they are. Be nice and firm, and make sure your talking to the owner and not a salesperson. Don't get anything but the Covermate III for the J-480 unless you have it sitting in a deck. They must make a specific bracket for the J-480 since it's so big. Don't worry about the steps, they going to give you something that's plastic and worth about $50.00. Just go buy your own on Amazon. Basically, make it a very simple transaction for them and they just made some money for about an hour's time plus delivery cost.
No one charges delivery cost if it's within 50 to 100 miles. I paid a $300.00 delivery cost since I was over 100 miles. Be warned, never pay with a check or cash. Always use a credit card (not debit) in this industry so if you have a problem, your protected and can get your money back by the bank. Don't get pressured into anything.
Check Facebook webpages for both Sundance and Jacuzzi Corporate pages. They list the truckload events on it and on the corporate websites. I'd be more focused on the price that the "service" your going to get later on years down the line.
Check out http://www.hottubworks.com/HotTubChemicals/ for your chemicals. During sales, they are normally 50% cheaper than the local stores.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Sundance+Cameo&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#pq=%22sundance+cameo%22+%2B+reviews&hl=en&sugexp=pfwl&cp=15&gs_id=5z&xhr=t&q=sundance+cameo+reviews&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=%22sundance+cameo+reviews&aq=0&aqi=g1&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&fp=5bd145500fad8bd6&biw=1916&bih=906&bs=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&cad=b&sei=eX62UYOtBNXk4APN2oCICg
http://www.google.com/#output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=Jaccuzi+J-400+reviews&oq=Jaccuzi+J-400+reviews&gs_l=hp.3..0i22i30.2056.10875.0.11091.25.23.2.0.0.0.104.1260.22j1.23.0...0.0.0..1c.1.16.psy-ab.JCLpwj7Dhi8&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.47534661,d.dmg&fp=5bd145500fad8bd6&biw=1842&bih=963
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&q=Jaccuzi+J-480+reviews&oq=Jaccuzi+J-480+reviews&gs_l=hp.3..0i22i30.48432.50442.1.50634.11.10.0.0.0.0.169.665.7j2.9.0...0.0.0..1c.1.16.psy-ab.z-NL5u50zaI&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.47534661,d.dmg&fp=5bd145500fad8bd6&biw=1842&bih=963
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&q=Jaccuzi+J-480+price&oq=Jaccuzi+J-480+price&gs_l=hp.3..0i13j0i22i30l3.17883.20126.2.20421.14.11.3.0.0.0.163.830.10j1.11.0...0.0.0..1c.1.16.psy-ab.gCmQp5R8IdI&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.47534661,d.dmg&fp=5bd145500fad8bd6&biw=1842&bih=963
There is so much wrong in this post......
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I'm all about American businesses staying in business and making a profit. But in a market where e consumer can not tell what a fair price is for a sale, there's this forum and our own research. Personally, I liked talking to many dealers, over 20 in fact w. most in person and I was quite honest that I'm shopping for the best price and did not want to waste their time if there were not interested in negotiating. Unlike buying a car where you can check with either your credit union or autozag.com to see what is a great price to horrible pure for the consumer along with seeing what the item sold for ip both locally, regionally or national in price, we the consumers must play this silly process if we don't want to get taken.
I knew some of these dealers wouldn't like my post, so it probably is a discussion with overhead, insurance, taxes etc, how much over invoice and dealer holdback or incentives we are not unaware of, is a good price. Obviously, to be told "Sir, the MSRP for a 2013 J-480 is $18'000 to $19,000 is a joke when dealer cost is $8,000 to just under $10,000 most likely. I stick with a high volume dealers who want to make $1,000 to $1,500 profit for a few hours of work.
This field needs some "confusions of a hot tub salesman" to shed the light on this practice and if your upset with that, then you don't really know how we Americans want to spend our hard earned income.
Like I said before, I had negotiated Sundance dealers to order a new 2012 in Feb to Apr 2013 Cameo's for $12,000 out the door or Maxxus for $13,000 out the door. I had prices for the J-480 from $8,000 to $12,500 from multiple dealers. Fortunately, I live in a area where 15 + dealers are within an hour drive of each other (multiple brands).
Personally, I liked the top of the line MAAX spa as one of the best, but they wouldn't come down below $14,000 or $15,000. And in dealing w. multiple dealers, I learned of the struggles many faced during the economic collapse, but I also listen to many dealers lies and distort facts about one brand to another. This industry needs to police up its self as there seem to be many unethical dealers so its harder form the consumer to find honest ethical hardworking dealers. Just read the last couple of new post and what newbies have been quoted for both new and 14 year old used spas.
one thing i learned myself, I had to look at Sundance's per-delivery guide to see at the Cameo fill rate was almost 150 to 200 gallons less than the J-480. Although if you read both brochures, they state it's about the same. No salesman was able to answer that question for me.
Buying a hot tub is no different than any other high dollar item. How many people went into best buy and paid full price for a 55 tv when they could get the same thing for 30% cheaper in Amazon.com or paid sticker price on a vehicle without researching the best price for their offer.
Sorry to offend a few salesman or small business owners who read this and disagree.
By the way, this was my second brand new J-480'that I've purchased since 2007 due to moving residence. Both were bought at different dealers when initial contact was made a home and garden shows where volume dealers where looking to move products. In 2006, it was $10,500 out the door with stereo.
Last,. Just to point out that all Jacuzzi's and Sundances are actually built in Mexico. Yes the corporate HQs is North of Sacramento, but to save cost Jacuzzi started to make them in Mexico a few years backs. I'd think they would ship from Mexico to regions in the US vs warehousing in California. Who knows though, I'm not a "professional" in the industry.
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A
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Dealers that sell for $1000 over invoice won't be around long. The only way to make any money would be to sell 500 tubs a year. Not to mention having to do any warranty work on the tub which you always lose money on. I'm all about getting the best deal and if you only paid you $8k for that tub then you either got a once in a lifetime deal, the dealer is an idiot will be going out of business soon or he was so hard up for cash flow he just gave the thing away. Most dealers I know in my area are fair but we are also looking to feed are families, pay are employees and to make a little money. Believe me we are not getting rich
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Dealers that sell for $1000 over invoice won't be around long. The only way to make any money would be to sell 500 tubs a year. Not to mention having to do any warranty work on the tub which you always lose money on. I'm all about getting the best deal and if you only paid you $8k for that tub then you either got a once in a lifetime deal, the dealer is an idiot will be going out of business soon or he was so hard up for cash flow he just gave the thing away. Most dealers I know in my area are fair but we are also looking to feed are families, pay are employees and to make a little money. Believe me we are not getting rich
Exactly.
Also, you cannot say buying a hot tub is like any other big ticket item. It most certainly is not. Firstly, the pool of potential customers is significantly lower. Everyone buys a car, tv, etc. Not everyone will buy a hot tub. The guy selling you the TV is also probably not as highly trained or knowledgeable about the different products. Every company that I have worked for flies their sales staff to the factory for sales training. There are regular classes on water chemistry. Sales and service staff are not only required to know every minor detail about their product, they also need to have a good understanding of all of their competitors products. We do quite a bit of site consultations too. Other big ticket items sellers don't need to send a service technician to your house to repair it if there is a warranty claim. As stated above, warranty work does not make a company money, it costs money. Having a technician who knows the ins and outs of hot tub repair, driving around in a truck that eats gas and needs to be insured is expensive. Manufacturer reimbursement on warranty claims is laughable. You said "I stick with a high volume dealers who want to make $1,000 to $1,500 profit for a few hours of work". It's not just a few hours of work. A delivery truck and crew is expensive. Shipping a hot tub is expensive. Paying a guy who can operate a forklift to handle it and then store it and the costs associated are higher than you would think. They are big and heavy and easily damaged in a warehouse. Again, this is not even remotely close to TV.
You act like every hot tub store is operated by shady people who want to rip you off. While there may be a few of these, most companies that I have interacted with are family owned and operated, provide excellent service and have built their reputation doing the right things. With customer reviews accessible from your phone, it should be pretty easy to determine the bad ones.
I'm not trying to talk down to you or anything, I just want to make sure that customers who come here for information are not getting bad information.
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" I just want to make sure that customers who come here for information are not getting bad information."
Part of the problem here lately. People post what they paid for said tub and all of a sudden everyone (well most everyone) coming here thinks thats what they should pay. There are a few other type of forums I go to where price talking is not allowed. Might be needed here at somepoint?
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i woud think one of the most important points in thinking about buyng a tub (or anything else one buys) is the price..but if was a dealer i could understand y dicussing prices paid could be annoying..
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We run into it with stove and firplace installs, couple of the companys around here use who ever they can to install a stove or fireplace. And of course their install prices are lower than ours and people always question it. It's easy to explain what and how they do it, but some people just don't get it. All I know is I wouldn't want someone not knowing what they are doing install a wood stove in my house..
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jim,now you are talking about 'you get what u pay for" but unfortunately thats far from the case here on long island whitch is what i think the original post was about..
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True dat! If that is their pricing and their selling spa's, they are doing very good..
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i woud think one of the most important points in thinking about buyng a tub (or anything else one buys) is the price..but if was a dealer i could understand y dicussing prices paid could be annoying..
The problem is a that we don't always know if it was a wet floor model, blem, older model or other discount. What exactly was included is not always clear either. Even when you do say what is included, different steps, cover lifters, etc, have different levels of quality and price. Different parts of the country are also going to naturally have different prices. You can certainly get a rough idea, but exact pricing is really hard to convey.
Also, I certainly would place a value on service and integrity. An unscrupulous company can very easily deny warranty claims based upon improper chemical balance, for example. Warranties tend to leave a lot of room for that. We will almost always warrant items even when the damage is due to chemical issues, though. This is just one example of the value of a good reputable dealer. Price certainly is important, but the free market tends to keep prices where they should be. If you charge too much or too little, you probably won't last long.
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Sorry posted twice
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At Jacuzzi_Jim, It's funny that when you post the prices you as a dealer has sold a new J-480 at $11,500 and 12,500 its part of the normal conversation. But when a consumer post he bought one cheaper and starts posing some real questions about dealer ethics, all of a sudden the dealers get upset and annoyed and suggest limiting free speech on forums like this that are well within the forum guidelines. I'd say your still making a profit at your prices above. If that's the point to silence consumers, than this forum will be used by only dealers and industry insiders
It goes back to the first post and the dealer trying to screw him over.
Can't commit on dealers losing money on repairs, sounds like a bad business model to me. Hopefully certain high end manufactures are better with supporting and reimbursing the dealers for their time. I know I've had problems with my filters falling apart within 90 days after I purchase and install. Personally, I thought it would be easier to reach out directly to Jacuzzi Corporate HQs with my concerns and ask if their was a known issue with the filters. jacuzzi stated they were aware owners had problems with the J-480 filters and UPS me 4 new sets for free without asking for that.
Now, common sense would dictate that other cost would drive up a price, such as assisting in planning the backyard spot, crane fees, etc. but if a buyer wanted the best price and was willing to do that himself with easy access to the back yard, than cost could be kept minimal. Personally, buyers need to also plan on concrete slabs (that cost me $5,500)and electrical work ($2,500) to the purchase price, so cost always goes up significantly to just put one of these in our backyards.
I'd say people who are taking bids for inground pools go for the best price when you getting the same product and material for each quote, just as in what potential buyers who come to this forum are attempting to do.
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You can post all the prices you want, and if you read back I also said that guy is way high on his prices. But when you start talking about something like dealer cost you have no idea.. I believe you also told the guy to walk in with 10 grand more or less take it or leave it. I lived in Dutch Hbr Alaska for 12 plus years. You know how much a gallon of milk cost there, it's not what it cost in Seattle. The price I posted is what I have sold that spa for, the price you paid for your spa is crazy low, possibly a blem without you knowing I don't know, but the guy didn't make much. My issue has been with you talking about something you don't know, you can speculate all you want but you don't know. I could tell you what the actual dealer cost of the spa is, but then Id have to kill you..
I don't agree with how that guy sells spa's and like I said, if he is getting that much for his spa's good for him. If he doesn't then he wont be around long if he doesn't budge. Your guy on the other hand selling spa's at that price he won't be around for long either, but then I don't what his over head is, but I do know what he pays for his spa's. Sorry to say you don't. :'(
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Your right, I'm not privy to what dealer cost are. Although, I've spent enough time researching to have a pretty good ball park view of what dealer cost are for larger high volume businesses and that they receive a significant cost reduction when they purchase multiple tubs at once. Look back at my original post and you'll see that I recommended to offer only $500 less that what your stated you sold yours for. Again, I bought mine during a large truckload event and meet the owner during a home and garden show, so prices would be lower than smaller family stores afford to make a profit or get a better break on a special order for their clients than businesses that only sell a small number of spas a year. Don't talk to me a about cost in your part of the country unless your business is in the San Francisco Bay Area or Manhattan Area where or costs are much greater than anything you would believe for property, workers salaries, insurance and taxes. BTW, I was a Soldier living in Alaska during the 1990s, so I know how outrageous a gallon of milk is in Alaska.
I'm done with this specific posting, as obviously I've upset a few of you with this string if posts, but you should loom at your own inaccurate and misleading statements trying to prove me wrong. I think I've been pretty accurate and honest with my postings. Now maybe people we start to understand the potential problems that we consumers face dealing with you guys in person. I understand none of you are getting wealthy doing sales, but some of us are more concerned with the bottom line price than sending you on your vacations to trade shows etc.
Maybe we need a forum and ban all dealers and salesman from it so we can have honest discussions about what hot tubs we like and why, and how to get a great deal on the pricing for our hard earned money.
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Your right, I'm not privy to what dealer cost are. Although, I've spent enough time researching to have a pretty good ball park view of what dealer cost are for larger high volume businesses and that they receive a significant cost reduction when they purchase multiple tubs at once. Look back at my original post and you'll see that I recommended to offer only $500 less that what your stated you sold yours for. Again, I bought mine during a large truckload event and meet the owner during a home and garden show, so prices would be lower than smaller family stores afford to make a profit or get a better break on a special order for their clients than businesses that only sell a small number of spas a year. Don't talk to me a about cost in your part of the country unless your business is in the San Francisco Bay Area or Manhattan Area where or costs are much greater than anything you would believe for property, workers salaries, insurance and taxes. BTW, I was a Soldier living in Alaska during the 1990s, so I know how outrageous a gallon of milk is in Alaska.
I'm done with this specific posting, as obviously I've upset a few of you with this string if posts, but you should loom at your own inaccurate and misleading statements trying to prove me wrong. I think I've been pretty accurate and honest with my postings. Now maybe people we start to understand the potential problems that we consumers face dealing with you guys in person. I understand none of you are getting wealthy doing sales, but some of us are more concerned with the bottom line price than sending you on your vacations to trade shows etc.
Maybe we need a forum and ban all dealers and salesman from it so we can have honest discussions about what hot tubs we like and why, and how to get a great deal on the pricing for our hard earned money.
I don't doubt you've been honest with your statements because its obvious that you think highly enough of yourself to believe you've got your finger on the pulse of most everything in life but you haven't been nearly as accurate in your assumptions as you believe. In your defense I wouldn't expect you to be too accurate but its the fact you lack the humity to realize it that is the sad part. I like to see new people get very involved with their purchase to the point where they come back here and can be as helpful to other owners/shoppers as the pros are here but then sometimes...
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yawn...we get a "that guy" in our store about every 3-4 months that acts like a particular poster in this thread...self entitlement, smarter than everyone else, thinks they have it "all figured out"....drop the price, sell it and move on to the next one and never see them again because they buy everything online
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Obviously I'm in the wrong line of business if I expect to make money. Different parts of the Country will have different pricing. When I was buying tubs from California it was costing me like $600 a tub to ship here. So prices for me are going to be higher then prices for someone in California so that argument is completely wrong
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Wonder what dealer cost for the 150 gazillion jet,flat screen tv,12 pump integrity spa is...lolol!
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Yea I am done arguing over it with him or her, SanFran so who knows. Wondering why I even get involved in those topics or any topic lately for that matter.. Maybe I should just stick to the why do I have an FL1 error on my spa questions.. I gotta go get my gold chains and silk shirt on now :lol:
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Interesting that upon a few searches in this forum, I found this... Another member was able to get a Jacuzzi dealer to order him a brand new 2013 J-470 for either $8,300 w/o stereo or $9,100 w. stereo. Reading his post, that came with a start up kit, covermate III lifter in Mass. Last time I looked, that's on the East Coast and is about as far a
way from where their built in Mexico and corporate HQ is CA. ;D
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/forum/index.php/topic,16342.msg172609.html#msg172609
"Ordered the 470 tonight . It was just a bit nicer IMHO then the Optima in my color choice. Jets were awesome, and the dealer was just a pleasure to work with. So my last choice now is, stereo or not. I can get it for $8300 with no radio, or $9100 with it. Any thoughts as I need to let them know tomorrow before they order it.
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Mass and Long Island are two different animals
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Id say he got a fantastic deal also, oh wait, I did say it in that thread I sold a J-365 today without a stereo for 9100.00 go figure, and I took almost a 1000 off.
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I know most on here say to not get a stereo with the hot tub. I'm different. I have a 2013 Sundance Optima with the Bluewave Stereo system and the JBL speakers. If I had to order another tub I would not order it without the sound system. It is a Bluetooth system. The sound is amazing. I can listen to all my music on my iPhone with the phone being inside my house. I can switch to the radio if I want. You can also plug an ipod in the front of the tub in a water tight compartment. The system comes with only a year warranty but that doesn't bother me at all.
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I agree with the radio. Originally, I did not intend to buy one and wanted to just purchase some high quality Bose outside speakers. After using my hot tub daily for the past year, one of the cool features is plugging my iPhone into the system and listening to the music. The sound quality is amazing, but their only warranted for one year.
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I remember that $8,300 J- 470 thread and I wanted in on a deal like that too, so I had a nice long chat with that dealer one morning on my way to the office. I agree with Jac-470 that his dealer is indeed a really nice guy, and I was planning to make the 2+ hour drive to his showroom before we stumbled into another unexpected deal we didn't want to pass up.
When I was telling him some of the good things I heard about them from this forum, and that thread in particular, he knew full well who I was talking about, and suggested there were certain "other considerations" in that transaction which were beneficial to both parties which helped account for the unusually good price.
Dave -- the really nice guy dealer -- explained the general nature of their deal to me, and suffice to say it's a win-win for everyone involved... and, while he's open to negotiation, he's NOT going to sell that tub at that price to anyone else any time soon... and don't get your hopes up that anyone else will sell you one for that price either!
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<< :o You're not worthy of such a title! 8)
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Now that we have the pricing issue hopefully over, as I do understand hot tub dealers need to make money,but the original issue here is hey, let's not rip off the public. And more important to me, don't try slimy sales tactics such as, "Well, if you can't afford to pay that much for a hot tub, I have some lower cost options here......" Yes, "The Hot Tub Guys" actually said that to my husband, which got me involved.
But back to the original reason for the post, Gspar, did you finally buy?
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Hello "Maryphil" Yes I am going to see Morro in Nutley NJ Monday where you bought your J480. You saved me over $4,000 on the same model. Thank you!! He had a hard time remembering you but said he would give me a similar deal. $12,700 for a J480 without the stereo plus chemical kit, free delivery, etc. I also called a place in Connecticut who said they also serve Long Island and knew all about "The Hot Tub Guys" and thanks them for all the business they get. They just jump on the ferry and service L.I. I am going with Morro since he was a little cheaper and seemed like a really nice guy on the phone. Very straight forward, no games, no bulls--t kind of guy. Can't wait to hook it up in about 3-4 weeks. Thanks again!!
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That's a crazy price!
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That's great to hear and glad we were able to help. We had some discussions with someone in CT as well, but went with Nutley in the end.
Enjoy the tub and laugh every time you pass by "The Hot Tub Guys".
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Thanks again. I will laugh at them but feel sorry for the people getting ripped off. Morro said he has had at least a dozen calls in the last few months from people on L.I. seeking Jacuzzi tubs. Hopefully from this blog!!
Take care.
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Hi, sorry for reviving an old thread here...
I'm in almost the exact situation. I live on Long Island and went to the Hot Tub Factory also. The price I was quoted for a 2013 J480 without a stereo was $15,600 plus taxes and $300 for delivery. That was based off of a starting price of $18,271 minus a $2200 'cash rebate' and a $500 'web coupon' from their website.
I really like the tub but that price seems nuts. It's a shame because the sales guy himself is a nice guy and really helpful.
I'm wet testing a Hot Springs Vista tomorrow. The HS dealer already quoted me a price on the Vista that was more than $4k less than the J480. I have a feeling I'll end up going with HS but it's a shame as the Jacuzzi dealer (Hot Tub Factory) is like 2 miles from my house.
Anyway, I'm curious what others here would do?
1) Assuming I like the Vista wet test, just jump on that and save over $4K.
2) Call Nutley in NJ and try and get the deal that others here have quoted.
3) Or go back to the Hot Tub Factory and give them a shot to match the low $11K price I got on the Vista.
Thanks for any input!
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I'm guessing you are dealing with Ocean Spray for HS on Long Island? Those guys are great and care about their customers. Just my two cents.
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I'm guessing you are dealing with Ocean Spray for HS on Long Island? Those guys are great and care about their customers. Just my two cents.
Yes, that's right. Sonny is a really good, low pressure salesman.
I just realized that there is also a Sundance dealer right near me. I'm going to head over there this afternoon and check out the maxxus and optima.
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I just got back from the Sundance dealer and really liked the Aspen a lot. The size and versatility of it were really impressive.
I know this is a loaded question but are the Aspen, HS Grandee and Jacuzzi J480 all roughly equivalent in terms of quality, etc? It seems like they are but I want to make sure I'm not missing something. I think Jacuzzi and SD are owned by the same company and it does seem like there is some similarity (i.e. the ClearRay system).
Thanks,
JC
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Yeah JC...Its a loaded question....I sell HS and have personally owned 2 Jacuzzis and one SD Optima and I've recently replaced my HS Vista with a new Grandee to utilize the ACE Salt system....Here's my results...My SD Optima was a nice looking tub and I liked it until I started having things fail...This is not a reflection on SD tho...I think that their products are at the top of the list along with Jacuzzi and HS....They in fact took care of the issues under warranty every time and eventually ended up replacing the tub with a brand new one.(I'm staying out of the issues I had with it) But the most important thing is they stood behind the product and warranted it...Not happy with the cost on my end tho (Shipping and installation totaling roughly $1000 bucks), I liked both Jacuzzis and never had any issues to speak of with them. Lastly the Vista I've owned for 7 years without any issues and loved it and now the new Grandee, Loving it as well without issues either. I personally tell people that my personal opinion is that the Jacuzzi, Sundance and Hot Spring products are the best of class products and cannot go wrong with either....I'm bios and I will tell you HS is the BEST regardless the price but you need to determine this for yourself....You can't go wrong with Either of these products you've mentioned here. This is my first year selling Hot Tubs but I have owned many tubs in my 20 plus years of Tubbing and you can take this as my personal opinion.
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Yeah JC...Its a loaded question....I sell HS and have personally owned 2 Jacuzzis and one SD Optima and I've recently replaced my HS Vista with a new Grandee to utilize the ACE Salt system....Here's my results...My SD Optima was a nice looking tub and I liked it until I started having things fail...This is not a reflection on SD tho...I think that their products are at the top of the list along with Jacuzzi and HS....They in fact took care of the issues under warranty every time and eventually ended up replacing the tub with a brand new one.(I'm staying out of the issues I had with it) But the most important thing is they stood behind the product and warranted it...Not happy with the cost on my end tho (Shipping and installation totaling roughly $1000 bucks), I liked both Jacuzzis and never had any issues to speak of with them. Lastly the Vista I've owned for 7 years without any issues and loved it and now the new Grandee, Loving it as well without issues either. I personally tell people that my personal opinion is that the Jacuzzi, Sundance and Hot Spring products are the best of class products and cannot go wrong with either....I'm bios and I will tell you HS is the BEST regardless the price but you need to determine this for yourself....You can't go wrong with Either of these products you've mentioned here. This is my first year selling Hot Tubs but I have owned many tubs in my 20 plus years of Tubbing and you can take this as my personal opinion.
Thanks dune -- I appreciate the input.
The one thing I'm missing in the HS line is the foot massager. The Aspen has amazing foot jets that I haven't seen in anything else except the jacuzzi 489/495. The grandee/vista have jets in the footwell but it's not the same as the underfoot jets that the aspen/maxxus does.
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Sorry to hear you had to deal with idiots like that. The place in NJ sounds like the place to buy. One question. If you get a Jacuzzi warranty when you purchase a tub, won't the warranty be honered by any Jaccuzzi dealer?
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I'm curious as to the foot jets that you have referred in your last post with the Aspen/Maxxus tub. By now You have wet tested the Vista? Is it similar as far as the foot jets are concerned in comparing wet tests?
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I'm curious as to the foot jets that you have referred in your last post with the Aspen/Maxxus tub. By now You have wet tested the Vista? Is it similar as far as the foot jets are concerned in comparing wet tests?
The Aspen has a dome of foot jets in the middle that you can put your feet directly on. We really liked the feeling of the jets directly on the bottoms of our feet.
We didn't make it to wet test the Vista yet but it looks like it has only two jets and they are in the sides of the foot well (which wouldn't necessarily do the bottoms of your feet.
With that feature in mind, it looks like Sundance and Jacuzzi are my only real options. Although I did see a photo of a D1 Amore that had two loungers with jets under each foot. I haven't priced one out yet but I think it may be higher than even the Aspen.
Fun stuff!
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Actually when seated in the upright center seat (Opposite side of the feet jets) your legs are almost straight out in front of you reaching the opposite side of the foot well and the bottoms of your feet are pointed upward directly on those two jets (HUGE JETS) You can even turn the diverter valve all the way to direct maximum pressure on the bottoms of your feet and are very strong. So not sure who might have steered you away from the HS Vista foot jets but they are in fact great and should not be discounted rather praised...I've owned the Vista for 7 years and my Grandee has the same two foot jets. The dome foot jets do not provide nearly the same volume of water as the larger foot jets do...Some of the lower line HS HOT SPOT models have the domed foot jets I think your referring to and are just different than the Larger Highlife model foot jets. Just want to point that out...Some of the Sundance line up (Marin, Cameo, Majesta, example...) have similar large foot jets like the Vista and Grandee. The smaller jets actually provide a tingling sensation and the larger provide a more deep tissue massage feel in my opinion. They all feel great/good/different regardless. You really should wet test the different models to determine what you like...Who cares what I tell you or anyone for that matter...You are your own critic and we are all different. Take a garden hose and stick a small straight tip nozzle on it...tell me how that felt on the bottom of your foot! Not exactly the same but you might get my drift.
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We didn't make it to wet test the Vista yet but it looks like it has only two jets and they are in the sides of the foot well (which wouldn't necessarily do the bottoms of your feet
With that feature in mind, it looks like Sundance and Jacuzzi are my only real options.
To agree with dunecritter. Don't write off of a great hot tub because of the look of the jets. It ain't the number of jets... it's how they perform baby! I haven't wet tested a Vista, but I've been in a Grandee, and those jets move some water. They feel good to me :)
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Thanks guys. So, if you were to choose between a new unwrapped 2013 Vista for 11,300 or a floor model 2013 sundance Aspen for 12,500 what would you do?
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I don't think you can go wrong with either as there both very good tubs but i would personally pick the aspen. I like the layout in that tub better
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I did the wet test with the Vista. I'm not sure that I love the Moto DX jets.
I really think I like the jacuzzi best of all I've tested. Given some of the prices quoted here, what do you think a fair price would be on a J470?
Thanks
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PM sent
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Hot springs in Melville was just as bad as all the others. New tub 10k but a refurb sandy tub 7500 no lights work though. C'mon . Do a search, there is a guy in ct that can deliver and warranty tubs on Long Island.
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Hot springs in Melville was just as bad as all the others. New tub 10k but a refurb sandy tub 7500 no lights work though. C'mon . Do a search, there is a guy in ct that can deliver and warranty tubs on Long Island.
Interesting... I thought they were really above board. They gave me realistic pricing right off the bat. Who knows though, it's a crazy industry.
Who's the guy in CT? Has anyone here on LI gotten from them?
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From what I understand these hot tub companies have territorial rights. In others words one hot springs dealer can't be closer that a 150 mile radius of the other. I don't know the exact distance I just picked 150 as an example. I'll try and pm you I the info.
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Change of plans. Tested the Dimension One Amore Bay tonight and loved it. Delivery next week -- I'm very excited.