Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Jay_Suede on June 06, 2004, 11:01:06 pm
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Anyone out there have some competitive pricing on the following Marquis Spas:
1. Silver Anniversary Reward?
2. The Reward?
3. Silver Anniversary Euphoria?
4. The Euphoria?
Please include the pricing and any extras they may include. Thanks
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I always find this sort of post interesting.
This source (www) offers people from all over the world the ability to compare spas. How can one determine if someone is better priced? There might be a dealer 3000 miles away that is 1000.00 less or a 1000.00 more. It doesn't make it a different value, it's just priced in that specific area accordingly. Dealer costs play a huge role. There's way too many factors in this general question to come to a reasonable conclusion of value.
Sorry. Way too vague.
If you're looking to determine wether or not a price you were quoted is reasonable, I would include the area you live to give a better indication of value.
Steve
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I am located in Atlanta, GA and the dealer is quoting the following:
- Silver Anniversary Reward...$7100.00
- The Reward...$6500.00
- Silver Anniversary Euphoria...$8000.00
- The Euphoria...$7500.00
Do these prices seem competitive? Appreciate all feedback.
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Those prices seem to be very fair....and certainly among the average price paid....I think you would enjoy the anniversary models best....
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I agree with Steve, it is not fair to compare prices from dealer to dealer or locations. To many factors. Sometimes the lower price is not always a better deal. I have seen dealers go out of business because their prices were too low.
Gary
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Steve and Gary...
That is so true.....not all 3 bedroom 2 bath 2000 sq ft homes cost the same as prices varies state to state and even block to block in the same city....as location plays an important role in what the cost of doing business is, dealers prices will vary....after looking here and on other boards for the most part the average cost seems to be within $500.00 in most cases.
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Steve and Gary...
That is so true.....not all 3 bedroom 2 bath 2000 sq ft homes cost the same as prices varies state to state and even block to block in the same city....as location plays an important role in what the cost of doing business is, dealers prices will vary....after looking here and on other boards for the most part the average cost seems to be within $500.00 in most cases.
That is the best analogy yet for variances in hot tub pricing across the country (heck, even the world)! Housing is much better than cars!
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Steve and Gary, Do you fellows give your fellow person any amount of ability for common sense?
I think the average person - who is doing research on the internet, combined with how many people answer questions such as this would easily allow the originator to figure a fair price.
Let's face it this industry is plagued with jerks (Jim) and secrecy - no one but dealers knowing true cost. That does not bode well for honest deals - period.
I am in No. VA - the DC burbs, my tub was bought on Father's day - cash deal, it is a Euphoria, it was $7635, including tax, delivery, setup, steps coverlift, lift install, and 2 extra filters.
Hope that helps you. -- Tax was about $400
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Steve and Gary, Do you fellows give your fellow person any amount of ability for common sense?
I certainly do Jaw. But the concern is that someone is going to quote $1000.00 less on the other side of the country and the poster is thinking he's getting ripped off.
I think the average person - who is doing research on the internet, combined with how many people answer questions such as this would easily allow the originator to figure a fair price.
An assumption but not very accurate IMO. I’ve been on these a long time and have seen many post these sorts of questions. Most assume pricing is set regardless of location.
Let's face it this industry is plagued with jerks (Jim) and secrecy - no one but dealers knowing true cost. That does not bode well for honest deals - period.
Want to know costs? Open up your own dealership.
I am in No. VA - the DC burbs, my tub was bought on Father's day - cash deal, it is a Euphoria, it was $7635, including tax, delivery, setup, steps coverlift, lift install, and 2 extra filters.
Why post your location? Does it matter? ;)
Steve
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Great reply steve.
All kidding aside, take off the dealer hat for a minute.
1. If cost is such a secret why the debate, why not price things like a sears or other retailer, why play BS games like car dealers? Used dealers at that?
2. People who use the internet for RESEARCH - not trolling are frequently more intelligent than those who do not.
3. One of the first things I LEARNED when doing my INTERNET RESEARCH was that price is different based on location - thus I supply that data when people ask - and even try to show things such as my location and tax items. I live in one of the highest cost of living areas in the nation so why is my price so similar to those of others all over the place - See Item #1.
People who ask prices understand more than you and many others give them credit for. Unless and until the game is played on a fair and even field this question will keep being asked and hopefully people will benefit from it.
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Great thread...
(I hear what you're saying jaw)
Housing may very well be a better analogy than the auto industry for pricing, but let's keep a few things in mind regarding location. Location of housing is determined by location of the home - view, slope, swamp, corner, freeway etc... (even block to block) not to mention age, construction, condition... I do consider the cost of living/to do business of location a good analogy. Now as for an analogy for buying - my experience shows that spa dealers are identical to used car dealers, "how much can i get from this sucka" (and again, bless those of you who aren't, may I enter your store soon)
I live in Oregon, the state where Marquis is manufactured.
A store in North OR, ~60 miles from manufacturer, quoted:
Euphoria SA sales price $9295 ("regular" 10,500)
Reward SA sales price $8395 ("regular" 9,800)
A store in South OR, ~250 miles from manufacturer, quoted:
Euphoria SA $7800 ("sales" price started at 8400)
Reward SA $7200 ("sales" price started at 7700)
(note: prices are not a typo.)
Not sure exactly where OR ranks in the cost of living ladder but I imagine it's not near the top.
I think I'll go to Atlanta or No. VA to buy...
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Over to you Steve.
And, for what it's worth, I had similar problems with the other spas I was considering.
One reason I went with Marquis, NO BS FROM THE DEALER, I told them I wanted a cash price, we worked it out very quickly and very well.
Steve, can you explain again why it's cheaper for me to get a spa on the east coast from a west coast maker, while living in one of the highest cost of living areas in the Nation?
Let me give you a hint, greed, unbalanced negotiation arena, and assumptions that buyers are idiots.
Need more?
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Over to you Steve.
Steve, can you explain again why it's cheaper for me to get a spa on the east coast from a west coast maker, while living in one of the highest cost of living areas in the Nation?
Let me give you a hint, greed, unbalanced negotiation arena, and assumptions that buyers are idiots.
Need more?
I am not Steve. But I can answer your question.
They could sell more spas than other stores, promting extra manufacturer discounts.
The store you purchased from probably has lower overhead than some other stores. There are several ways to lower overhead.
Some are: cheaper rent or mortgage, subcontracting labor, no employee benifits, less items in stock, lower paid employees, not paying taxes.
Of course most people would rather pay a little extra if they knew it would provide them with better service and a more stable dealer to go to for help.
What you need to realize is the net cost of each spa is going to be less than the ACTUAL cost of each sold spa by a dealer. There are MANY factores that will have a role in calculating each spas actual cost to the dealer.
In my city there is one dealer that sells spas for approx $1200 above net cost. This company(a) pockets about $1000 per spa.
There is another company that sells its spas for about $2000 above net cost. This company(b) also pockets about $1000 per spa.
To make sense of this comparison you must know the variables involved.
Company(a) subcontracts its deliveries for $100 per spa.
Company(b) Has well trained full time employees deliver all of its spas.
Company(a) Has untrained staff in the store that they pay a small hourly wage.
Company(b) Has highly trained staff that can answer all of your questions and have been with the company for a long time. They are paid well and have benifits.
Company(a) Has a sales staff that is commision only.
Company(b) Every one in the company is trained well enough to fully inform you of the products it carries. Everyone is paid a nice wage and has an opportunity to earn a commision if they sell a spa.
I have done work for both of these companies and can assure you that company(b) has alot more satisfied customers than company(a). Even though company(a) sells its spas for less.
Who would you rather buy from?
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HI...
I am surprised by how bold and how some people equate knowing what the dealer pays for a spa as being the way to know if you are getting a good price or not....really about the only industry I know of..where you can find dealer invoice is autos....and that is a whole other thing anyway.... raise your hand if you truly believe that when you are paying 500.00 over invoice thats all the money a auto dealer is making...take it from someone who has been in the auto industry for the past 13 years..there are other ways they make money but those ways do not apply to spa sales in any way shape or form...why do so many people think they should have the right to know a dealers invoice...If anyone could please tell me why I would truly appreciate it....just so you know outside of a home and than a car.....flooring covering for your house is the next most expensive item for the average consumer....also why is it so hard to figure out that many dealers around the country sell spas seasonly.....meaning the majority of their spas are sold during certain times of the year....yet to provide service to the customer they are open year round....The INTERNET is a great tool for gathering inforamtion...but just because you can do a search for something does not give anyone the absolute right to know what every dealer pays for everything they sell....I believe in the free market economy that if a dealer is truly out line with his prices than he will ultimately fail. and that by the way swings both ways to being to high but also to low...again just look at the boards most prices seem to be around 500.00 within each other .....now an asking price is just that....but what people are paying when they are buying is what really matters....this is such a simple analogy but why do golf courses adjust prices for the time of year the time of day the day of the week...lol. ::)..that might not much sense to some but to some it will.....sorry to ramble but I just get confused by this subject....
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You raise some excellent points, mendocino.
I think you have a way better grasp of this issue than the ones who demand to know the prices the dealers pay for their inventory.
Brewman
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Wow, I live in Oregon and paid a lot less than what was stated above. Between $6K and $7K for the euphoria. I wont say exact price or where because marquis reps monitor this board and will start calling dealers to find out who is selling them so cheap. I learned the hard way when my dealer got grilled by the reps.
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for clarity, I personally don't need to know what a dealer pays for a tub but I do need to know what the fair market value is for a tub I am interested in purchasing.
The auto industry certainly has its flaws, but at least the consumer has an *idea* for a car's fair market value via Dealer's Invoice or a Blue Book value for used.
Consumers don't necessarily have the right to know a dealer's invoice but they do have the right to know fair market value. The issue, in my experience, with spa dealers is that they are not forthright with what the fair market value is for the spas they are selling.
Although, as Mendocino101 has stated in a previous post, "MOST people understand that MSRP is not the real price" the MSRP has been the price displayed in every showroom I've been in as of yet with a "sale" price still several thousands above what educated folks are paying (those being on this forum).
Dealers have a right (and need) to make a fair profit as much as customers have the right to not get ripped off.
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empolgation
You are right and that is my point what is fair market value....these boards give person a real good idea of about what you can expect to pay...in doing my research and I believe it was Electro who actually followed and charted prices paid for I think a Sundance spa most people on average were paying the same within a window of about $500.00 of course there will always be the exception to those who paid less and those who paid more...but there is so many more things that go in to what a dealers real cost are outside of just the bottom dollar of the spa invoice....again I think the market overall will always keep things in a competitive balance.... there are bad or untrust worthy people in all industries but really I think spas and many other small business "Mom and Pop" type local dealers are just people who are looking to make a honest living in the community in which they live and are not out to rip off those who walk though their doors....just a note....I am of the opinion that home shows....and fairs those type of environments is where you are more liable to run into a "rip off" type of buying envoriment.....as many of those sales people are on a traveling sales teams who sell for different makers week to week and they are going to get paid only on the profit they can make and must do so right there on the spot as there really is no tomorrow for them selling at those type of shows.....lol.....they are part of the act of you get my drift.
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for clarity, I personally don't need to know what a dealer pays for a tub but I do need to know what the fair market value is for a tub I am interested in purchasing.
personally, I agree with empolgation. I would like to know a fair market value for a tub, but to be honest, if someone thinks they are getting a good deal on a tub they are buying for £8k that someone else is paying £7k for, then where's the problem? I'm not sticking up for dealers or anything, but at the end of the day everyone (except the customer! 8) )has to make some money out of it. I do agree that there should be some sort of main EASILY AVAILABLE!!! manufacturer list price published - this is one thing that really annoys me actually ..... all the manufacturers websites I've been on, which have then directed me to my nearest dealer, none of the dealer websites have ANY prices at all...not even ball park figures. Anyway, I've had my bit whinge for the day and I feel better!!! All I'm trying to say that, in my opinion, is a deal is as good as you think it is.
saz
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I've been lurking boards for over 2 months and continue to be amazed how people insist to know the bottom line price and then expect to buy a tub $500.00 over dealer cost.
Does anyone realize what it takes to own a business...any business?
If you are in business and do not make a margin of 25% to 30% you will not be in business long.
Example: Spa "a" costs you $10000.00, 30% margin means the dealer made 3k....outraqeous you say!!
Dealer of Spa "a" sells 20 spas a year, gross profit of $60k!! outrageous again!!
Let's see here.....Delivery, lets be conservative here $100 per delivery......2k, gross margin down to $58k
Rent...Consevative again....$1000.oo per month = 12k...gross margin now down to $46k
Insurance...conservative again $200 per month $2.4k, we are down to approx $43k
Vehicle fleet...lets say a small fleet... 2 vehicles... insurance, gas, vehicle cost and maintenance....12k annually, down to 31k
Oops we forgot hired help....lets say 2 people not counting the owner at $8.00 per hour, counting workmans comps and social security that number is closer to $12.00 per hour, lets make em part timers to boot......40 hours per week total between the 2, 2080 hours per year X $12.00 = $29k.....we are down to 2k net profit.
Forgot electricity and heating and cooling...we need to run the showroom models and have a comfortable environment for our customers.....thats gotta be 2k per year...looks like we are down to a net profit of ZERO.
Now me being the owner and assuming I am making 3k gross profit per $10000.00 sale I need to sell 20 more tubs to make myself the owner $60k BEFORE taxes.
Now if I am making 50% per tub :o....really outrageous huh? I wont have to sell that additional 20 spas....if I want to make $40k before taxes......(i'm worth more than 40k per year)
Dont ask for dealers cost....they arent trying to rip you off, they just know that the average consumer will not understand that a 30% markup is what is needed to run a business, theyll just be pissed off thinking they were ripped off......That folks is why they won't tell you and should't tell you ;)
BTW I am not in the spa business...or any business for that matter, just common sense economics here
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I've been lurking boards for over 2 months and continue to be amazed how people insist to know the bottom line price and then expect to buy a tub $500.00 over dealer cost.
Right you are bodguy - there are some ignorant posts about those who insist on knowing bottom line and want a tub $500 over dealer cost... but I don't believe any of them appear in this thread. I see this thread being about fair value, taking into consideration a fair dealer profit and fair price; just some concious minded consumers researching and educating themselves in a market where the fair value pricing is not regulated and more often than not, not being openly divulged by the dealer.
BTW I am not in the spa business...or any business for that matter, just common sense economics here
Thanks for the economics example, truly helpful for those who don't understand how spas can be so expensive - but one should keep in mind all the numbers are just examples, not actual data from someone in the spa biz. The HUGE assumption in the example is that a spa sold for $10,000 cost the dealer $7000.
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Great post Bodguy....
Empolgation....
I think the real point is that most any business needs that 25 to 33% average mark up to remain in business and be able to operate in a sound fashion...As I mentioned in my post....Why is it that people feel the need or the right to insist they know what the invoice is for a spa...I don't think people felt this way before the internet...and I do appreciate what you said about fair market value and that is where these boards I think help many....I wish that if someone knew that they were able purchase a spa at a very uncommon price for what ever the reason that they would keep that to themselves as it distorts the common value of the spa....I know that I was very close to buying a Caldera spa earlier this year and I did not post the price as I was quickly able to see it was out of character for the more common price for the same spa and I happen to come across a good oppertunity....
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Why is it that people feel the need or the right to insist they know what the invoice is for a spa...I don't think people felt this way before the internet...and I do appreciate what you said about fair market value and that is where these boards I think help many....
Mendocino101, I respect your opinion and in my experience you have given some sound advice and info on this forum... Again, for me this thread is not about invoice, I don't need to know it - I understand business.
Some data:
- I was quoted from a dealer for Euphoria $9095 ($9295 for the SA)
- others on this thread:
$7500
$7635
between $6K and $7K
....but depending on where you are in the country...I think anywhere from around 7500 to 8300 would be fair for the Marquis [Euphoria]....
- it's not about uncommon prices
- what I was quoted was not within $500 of the others
The point is about fair price and how it's up to the consumer to educate themselves.
I know there are many fair dealers out there, but from my experience they are in the minority. Consumers need to educate themselves to find out fair value because the dealer most likely won't be offering.
As for why some folks feel the need to ask for an invoice... it's the only generally recognized way for a consumer to get an idea of a fair price in a market that has no control or regulation where...
As a dealer I can set any price that I want.
(Keep in mind this has been my experience with other dealers as well, just keeping with this thread's subject, Marquis)
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You are right em....I started a fresh post...I really didnt mean to jump in on a marquis discussion
Sorry to jump in :)
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Mendocino101, I respect your opinion and in my experience you have given some sound advice and info on this forum... Again, for me this thread is not about invoice, I don't need to know it - I understand business.
Some data:
- I was quoted from a dealer for Euphoria $9095 ($9295 for the SA)
- others on this thread:
$7500
$7635
between $6K and $7K
- it's not about uncommon prices
- what I was quoted was not within $500 of the others
The point is about fair price and how it's up to the consumer to educate themselves.
I know there are many fair dealers out there, but from my experience they are in the minority. Consumers need to educate themselves to find out fair value because the dealer most likely won't be offering.
As for why some folks feel the need to ask for an invoice... it's the only generally recognized way for a consumer to get an idea of a fair price in a market that has no control or regulation where...
(Keep in mind this has been my experience with other dealers as well, just keeping with this thread's subject, Marquis)
What is your definition of a fair price?
How much of a margin should the dealer be able to make?
For a price to truly be fair shouldn't it also be based off of your income?
Just because a dealer charges more, does not mean they are making more. Some dealers pay thier employees more that $8.00 an hour. Some dealers pay more in rent. Some dealers provide benifits for employees.
My point is if the dealer that quoted you $9000 pays its service techs $15.00 an hour and provides them benifits, his spa is already worth more than $1000 difference than a dealer that pays $8.00 an hour with out benifits.
You will save a lot more than $1000 over the life of your spa if your dealer has a well trained staff and low turnover. You can't do that for $8.00 an hour.
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not a problem bodguy - relevant, intellegent input is always welcome.
You give a good example of what can make up the costs involved in the pricing of a spa - it's good to point out to those educating themselves that a big price tag doesn't necessarily mean overpriced
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Since you asked...
What is your definition of a fair price?
A displayed price that is the same as the price of a spa sold to an educated consumer at the same store, one in line with other dealers of the same tub resulting in a similar profit margin (of course relative to that particular dealer's costs). More simply, a price that begins with what they are willing to sell for, not an over-inflated made up retail price to begin haggling, with the hope that the shopper doesn't know that the price is several thousand over their strike point.
How much of a margin should the dealer be able to make?
Not exactly relevant to the discussion but appears to me like most posts on this forum agree to a 20 - 35%
For a price to truly be fair shouldn't it also be based off of your income?
That goes to the far other side of "fair". Should a person with no income get a tub for almost free while a consumer with a huge income pay $60K for the same tub? Cost is cost no matter how much a customer has in his bank.
Just because a dealer charges more, does not mean they are making more. Some dealers pay thier employees more that $8.00 an hour. Some dealers pay more in rent. Some dealers provide benifits for employees... You will save a lot more than $1000 over the life of your spa if your dealer has a well trained staff and low turnover. You can't do that for $8.00 an hour.
Totally agree.
My point may have been clouded through the tangents of discussion. Allow me to back track and summarize for a moment...
Quality of product and service comes with a price.
A price that should allow for a dealer's comfortable profit and be consistent with every tub sold.
My experience in shopping for tubs has revealed that most dealers (I'll say it again because it's important... *not* all dealers)are not forthright with the true price; they display a "retail" price on their tubs that is several thousands above what the price they would be willing to sell for to an educated shopper.
Here is a real example:
I went into a showroom of a dealer, a tub had a price tag "Regular $12,000. Memorial Day sale $9,599"
Wow what a deal!?
I happen to know through my research that particular tub generally sells for $7200 - 8500. After talking with the salesperson and making it clear that I am a serious educated buyer, I mention that the price seems a little out of line - that's when I got the aside whisper "I can give you a real deal today for $8,895" As I thanked him and headed for the door, I got a "I may be able to get you a better deal, let me check" In this case the fair price should be $7200 - 8500, at the very most $8,895 certainly not $9,599.
The point is... spa shoppers need to educated themselves not only as to what tub they want but what a fair price is for that tub. Yes, quality spas are expensive and yes, prices will vary but without research there is a good chance a consumer will pay thousands more for a tub than the dealer is willing to sell for at a price the dealer would consider good profit. And it is important for the sluething shopper to be aware of this.
Unfortunately the inherent flaw of dealership is that one can't just go down the street to check out what the other guy is selling the same tub for and buy from him.
This forum is a fabulous place to educate oneself about pricing as well as many other aspects of spatopia.
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Since you asked...
A displayed price that is the same as the price of a spa sold to an educated consumer at the same store, one in line with other dealers of the same tub resulting in a similar profit margin (of course relative to that particular dealer's costs). More simply, a price that begins with what they are willing to sell for, not an over-inflated made up retail price to begin haggling, with the hope that the shopper doesn't know that the price is several thousand over their strike point.
Not exactly relevant to the discussion but appears to me like most posts on this forum agree to a 20 - 35%
That goes to the far other side of "fair". Should a person with no income get a tub for almost free while a consumer with a huge income pay $60K for the same tub? Cost is cost no matter how much a customer has in his bank.
Totally agree.
My point may have been clouded through the tangents of discussion. Allow me to back track and summarize for a moment...
Quality of product and service comes with a price.
A price that should allow for a dealer's comfortable profit and be consistent with every tub sold.
My experience in shopping for tubs has revealed that most dealers (I'll say it again because it's important... *not* all dealers)are not forthright with the true price; they display a "retail" price on their tubs that is several thousands above what the price they would be willing to sell for to an educated shopper.
Here is a real example:
I went into a showroom of a dealer, a tub had a price tag "Regular $12,000. Memorial Day sale $9,599"
Wow what a deal!?
I happen to know through my research that particular tub generally sells for $7200 - 8500. After talking with the salesperson and making it clear that I am a serious educated buyer, I mention that the price seems a little out of line - that's when I got the aside whisper "I can give you a real deal today for $8,895" As I thanked him and headed for the door, I got a "I may be able to get you a better deal, let me check" In this case the fair price should be $7200 - 8500, at the very most $8,895 certainly not $9,599.
The point is... spa shoppers need to educated themselves not only as to what tub they want but what a fair price is for that tub. Yes, quality spas are expensive and yes, prices will vary but without research there is a good chance a consumer will pay thousands more for a tub than the dealer is willing to sell for at a price the dealer would consider good profit. And it is important for the sluething shopper to be aware of this.
Unfortunately the inherent flaw of dealership is that one can't just go down the street to check out what the other guy is selling the same tub for and buy from him.
This forum is a fabulous place to educate oneself about pricing as well as many other aspects of spatopia.
If a dealer placed the best price only on his spas on the showroom he would lose many sales. Most shoppers assume that the price is way overinflated and that the dealer is screwing them. While it is true that some dealers operate this way, MOST dealers do not sell thier spas for enough.
There is a dealer in my area that sells thier spas at $1000 above cost. they can do this because they sell alot of spas and they pay thier employees poorly. Many people buy from them because of the great deal they think they are getting. What these customers do not know is that if they have a service issue they are likely to have to wait 2+weeks for a service tech, and that there is a 50% chance that tech hasn't been a tech for a month.
If a dealer told you his cost on a spa was $5000 how would you feel about giving him $7500. Most people would think that the dealer is making too much. In reality after adding frieght, cover, chemicals, delivery, insurance, storage, retail space, advertising, commision, and all other associated costs, that dealers profit is closer to $750. Or 10% of the sale price. Most people do not take the time as you did to educate themselves. They would just assume that the dealer is pocketing $2500 and laughing all the way to the bank. These customers are the reason dealer are scared to release thier net cost on a spa.
F.Y.I. the dealer that gave you the outrageos cost of $9000 was not far from your fair 35% margin.
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If a dealer placed the best price only on his spas on the showroom he would lose many sales. Most shoppers assume that the price is way overinflated and that the dealer is screwing them. While it is true that some dealers operate this way, MOST dealers do not sell thier spas for enough...
(For the record, it is not my intention to upset anyone, though I do believe ruffled feathers can lead to truth. I enjoy an intelligent polemic discussion; a lot of good information can be gleaned by all who follow along.)
No arguments that most people do not take the time to educate themselves and I believe it is rather obvious to even the lesser intellegent spa shopper that there are plenty of costs that go into the making of a successful business' offered retail prices, though I must question some of your postulates RBoehme - might you be a dealer?
I'm interested to know how it is fact that "If a dealer placed the best price only on his spas on the showroom he would lose many sales." If MOST dealers indeed do not sell their spas for enough I would expect to see a lot less dealers in business for an extended period of time along with less manufacturers.
It appears as though most shoppers are correct in their assumption of overinflated prices since it is apparently necessary that the dealer does not place his best price on his spas in order to make sales. The unfair advantage in this business transaction is that the dealer knows his unplaced best price while the customer only sees the dealer created "retail" price that he has placed (and I think everyone will agree to the accuracy of "retail" prices compared to actual price). A "deal is struck" somewhere inbetween directly dependent upon the knowledge of the customer and their bartering skills. BTW, it wouldn't make a difference if a dealer told me his cost, but if $7500 is his best price for a tub i want then I'd feel pretty good about cutting the check; the problem therein lies that one has no sure way of knowing if it is his best price or even a "good" price since he can't place that on his spa to make a sale.
Again, i am one who understands business and don't ask the dealer to release their net cost, but since you mention that dealers are scared to do so I am inclined to agree with you, releasing their net cost would make a lot of folks angry, mainly other dealers, and eventually the manufacturer, who would prefer that that info remain unknown to the customer.
I don't recall referring to the cost of $9000 as outrageous, but I am curious to know how far it is from a 35% margin since you are apparently in the know ;)
All rebuttal aside, to reitereate my point(s)...
- not all dealers deal the same way
- pay no attention to "retail" price
- quality product and service comes with a price
- prices will understandably vary based on many cost factors
- most importantly, do your homework on pricing, for the placed price on the spa you want likely is set for a large margin of bartering and if it isn't then you've done your homework to know.
3 cheers to the dealers that are upfront about their "best" price from the beginning - may you procreate bountifully
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empolgation...
I fully respect your well thought out and articulate position in regards to dealers and their pricing....I know it is of much debate among dealers as to what is the best policy with regards to the listing of prices...some feel if a customer comes in and sees what they feel is a price that is to high....they will walk out with out the chance to investigate what price includes and what type of value are you getting for your dollar...others are also afraid that no matter the price listed most buyers will ask you to include extras at no additional cost since they paid your listed price.....while some like Steve..feel it is best and also most fair that you list your price and that is it end of story....I do know from the auto sales and working for 10 years at a no haggle one price store that few actually accept the price listed as being your best....and while so many state they would love to see this type of pricing very few actually want to BUY that way in the end...as I have mentioned here before Saturn simply marketed full MSRP as the price and buyers went in excepting to pay that price....and it works but only for two reasons... one the buyers understanding and acceptance of paying full window sticker and almost or perhaps even more importantly all the dealers adhere to the pricing and selling policy....where in spas for an expample a dealer can be shopped by his competition and than simply under cut..or what many feel truly happens is the dealer buys the sale for 50 or 100 dollars...and no matter how much people say I would never buy from them if I was only savings 50 or 100 dollars most in fact will and do....
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At the end of the day .... who cares ... as long as you are happy you have bought the best at the best local price !
If you lived in the UK you would pay over $ 16'000.00 for a Euphoria ,
so stop wimpering !
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$16,000 here in the UK is a very good guess. I was quoted $15,680.
G
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Clarification for those who evidently need it.
1. I am NOT clamoring for nor demanding to know dealer costs - I am trying to suggest that the playing field is NOT level - and, one way to rectify it - IF WE ARE TO PLAY THE NEGOTIATION BS GAME - is to publish this data.
2. In the absense of that another way is for owners to share their costs with others - and assume that most are intelligent enough to factor cost of living, location and other variables into the overall equation.
3. Or, just do as many here suggest - simply trust that your dealer is not gonna hose you.
I personnally prefer doing 1 or 2.
I also know that my dealer - WHERE I GOT A FAIR deal, maybe a great deal - but I was shooting for a FAIR deal, has been there when I needed him and has super support when I call or when I need minor information.
Now as to the mfr's monitoring the site - I doubt they care what a dealer sells for - they care about getting what is due them - and that dealers do not undercut each other in overlapping territories.
If they do indeed monitor this site and others they too can see the need to level the playing field, or - lose business to internet sellers, kooks, or big box store sales.
Kapeesh?
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Thank you jaw - you saved me some typing.
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that's what i do.