Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: jazzykeen on April 18, 2013, 01:13:00 pm
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Hello all, this will be our first time purchasing a hot tub. I have been reading this forum as well as researching different models and dealers and it is all a bit overwhelming! We are looking for something in the $3000-5000 range- nothing terribly fancy, but we want a 6 person tub.
Our local Hot Spring dealer has several used models- one is a 2006 Sovereign for $3995.00 + tax (+ $500.00 for delivery). The other is a Vanguard (2007) $4595.00 + tax (+ $500.00 for delivery). Since they are used, they only carry a 90 day warranty. I'm not sure if these are good deals or not- maybe someone can advise.
Another local dealer sells Artesian tubs, Caldera and FreeFlow. She said the only models she has in that price range are the FreeFlow Excursion and Monterrey.
That said, which would you choose- the used Hot Spring or the new FreeFlow? Thank you in advance!
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I would choose the vanguard over freeflow. Any dealers sell nordic or Viking in your area. They make some good budget friendly tubs that have nice features. The vanguard is a great tub and buying from a dealer it should be in good shape
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Hello all, this will be our first time purchasing a hot tub. I have been reading this forum as well as researching different models and dealers and it is all a bit overwhelming! We are looking for something in the $3000-5000 range- nothing terribly fancy, but we want a 6 person tub.
Our local Hot Spring dealer has several used models- one is a 2006 Sovereign for $3995.00 + tax (+ $500.00 for delivery). The other is a Vanguard (2007) $4595.00 + tax (+ $500.00 for delivery). Since they are used, they only carry a 90 day warranty. I'm not sure if these are good deals or not- maybe someone can advise.
Another local dealer sells Artesian tubs, Caldera and FreeFlow. She said the only models she has in that price range are the FreeFlow Excursion and Monterrey.
That said, which would you choose- the used Hot Spring or the new FreeFlow? Thank you in advance!
Freeflow is a great choice for a new spa where your budget doesn't allow you to go $6k or 8k or... On the other hand a good used spa from a dealer with a 90 day warranty is also a good way to go. Which is better? There is no simple answer. Its like deciding between a new $18k car or a dealer certified used (I mean "pre-owned") BMW for the same price. Continue to negotiate on both by telling them you are at the decision stage and need their absolute best offer and go with whichever makes the most sense to you.
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I recently purchased a geo spa made by calspas,this forum hats calspa but I am very happy with it ..if you can go to $5500 way fair.com sells a great Nordic at an unbeatable price
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Can't really comment on the new/used question....but here's something to consider. I have a 2011 Vanguard, and I love it. But it only has 5 "regular" seats (+ the cool down) and it would be pretty tight for 6 people.
But maybe that's the way you want it. ;)
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Thanks for the replies! It turns out we do have a dealer that sells Vikings in our area. They are more of a hot tub/pool outlet type place so I'm not sure if that makes a difference versus a dedicated hot tub dealer.
We are going to check out the two used Hot Spring tubs tomorrow. I'm thinking if I can talk the dealer down a bit I might just pull the trigger on one of them since it sounds like that is a consistently good brand. I was just a little concerned about the age- how long do these tubs typically last? Can I expect to get much more use out of a 6 or 7 year old tub?
Also, will an older model be a lot less energy efficient than a brand new one, or is the difference pretty negligible?
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again..do yourself a favor and check out nordic tubs..you can get a new one with a great warantee in your price range...
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I'm a little bit wary of buying something as large as a hot tub online. Especially since the shipping is curbside. I'd have to hire someone to move it into my backyard and set it up. How did you handle that aspect? As far as the warranty, how do you get service? Does the company you bought it from send you parts if it needs repairs and you then have to hire a third party (or maybe you have enough technical skill to fix it yourself- I definitely do not!).
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many dealers sell nordic..you can check them out hands on and pay a little more for dealer service or buy through wayfair ,,wayfair will literally just drop it off in your driveway...i hired a spa mover for 300 bucks to bring my geo to its resting place but still ended up saving thousands..if you buy the nordic from the internet ,when you register it they will have there closest dealer service it anyway..personally if i go into a local business and they help me than i would buy from them as long as the premium wasnt ridiculous,,its just the right thing to do..my purchase was internet only never visited a dealer
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the company that makes the hot tub provides the warantee through your closest certified dealer..,.basically the same as if you bought it at the dealer
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y does my spell check spell it warantee??..lol !!!
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many dealers sell nordic..you can check them out hands on and pay a little more for dealer service or buy through wayfair ,,wayfair will literally just drop it off in your driveway...i hired a spa mover for 300 bucks to bring my geo to its resting place but still ended up saving thousands..if you buy the nordic from the internet ,when you register it they will have there closest dealer service it anyway..personally if i go into a local business and they help me than i would buy from them as long as the premium wasnt ridiculous,,its just the right thing to do..my purchase was internet only never visited a dealer
The nordic dealer DOES NOT service internet purchases under warranty. As a Nordic dealer myself I asked about this to the factory. Wayfair apparently has a warranty center you would have to contact. Basically wayfair is selling the 3 models that Nordic discontinued as they were there lower sellers. They came out with an Encore series that replaced the Escape Premium R and the rendezvous was appaerently not a huge seller though I have had good luck with it personally. You should be able to get similar pricing at a store depending on where you are located. The thing I will say about Nordic is the have been great as far as reliability as I get very few under warranty to fix. The warranty is also very good 3 year on equipment, 10 year on cabinet and lifetime on the shell.
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the company that makes the hot tub provides the warantee through your closest certified dealer..,.basically the same as if you bought it at the dealer
Incorrect
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Common misconception/assumption
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A dealer does not have to honor a warrantee on any tub he did not sell. He can choose to but it is not mandatory.
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just going by what my situation is with my calspa..my tub is covered for 2 years by my closest cal dealer..when i called wayfair about the nordic warranty they stated it would be my local dealer..anyway do what you feel comfortable with ..you know what they say about opinions...
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heres the tub anyway...u can get a coupon code and get an additional 10% off plus 10% in store cash....http://www.wayfair.com/Nordic-Hot-Tubs-Rendezvous-Hot-Tub-NHTT1003-NHTT1003.html
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Ok, I just encountered a possible game changer. We had an electrician come out and look at our situation this afternoon and apparently we would have to upgrade our entire electrical panel if we wanted to wire for a 240V tub. Also, they'd have to dig a 45 foot trench for the wiring since it's not right up against the house. This would cost upwards of $3k according to him.
Now I am wondering about "plug and play" solutions. I have heard there is no such thing as truly plug and play. Is there any kind of tub that I'd be able to run an extension cord from my house, plug in and be done with it? I really don't want to spend close to the cost of the tub itself to get it up and running...
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extension cords are never a good idea....take a look at costcos aquaterra..they are 110 plug and play and are currently on sale..if you can spend a little more take a look at the geo spa i bought...again its a calspa and everyone but me hates them but i love it...its plugged into 110 and works as it should,,,btw the aquaterra are made by the same company that makes hot spring
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or this..http://www.wayfair.com/Nordic-Hot-Tubs-Escape-Recliner-Hot-Tub-NHTT1001-NHTT1001.html
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Thanks for the suggestion! So, in my case, the tub would be located about 50 feet from the house. I'm guessing I would still need to get a trench dug and a new outlet installed if I couldn't use an extension cord. But hopefully would not have to get the entire electrical panel upgraded!
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the right way is to have at least a 15 amp dedicated gfci outlet near where you are going to put the tub...than you literally just plug it in>>
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look in your box do see if there are any empty spaces to put a breaker?..do you already have a stand alone outlet outside ?..you might be able to tap off an outlet you already have
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There are are several empty spaces on my panel. It is 150v total, which the electrician said is not much. Currently we do not have a plug located outside so we would need to get one installed. I'm guessing either way it's going to cost quite a bit to get one put near the tub since it is not near the house :-\
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shouldnt be a problem to add another circuit..and shouldnt be that expensive to run one..
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or this..http://www.wayfair.com/Nordic-Hot-Tubs-Escape-Recliner-Hot-Tub-NHTT1001-NHTT1001.html
Need a 20 amp dedicated line for this not 15. I wouldn't really recommend this tub as the jet action is really weak. The best 110 model that Nordic makes would be the Retreat which also runs on a 20 amp. They do make a few round ones like the impulse DP which run on 15amps. Free flow's you should be fine with only 15 amps
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just going by what my situation is with my calspa..my tub is covered for 2 years by my closest cal dealer..when i called wayfair about the nordic warranty they stated it would be my local dealer..anyway do what you feel comfortable with ..you know what they say about opinions...
That's not what Nordic told their dealers because I specifically asked that. If one shows up in my area and they need warrentee work done they can either call wayfair or pay me my regular rates up front and get reimbursed by Nordic. Maybe that's why wayfair has so many complaints with the BBB because they give consumers mis-information. Out of curiosity if your cal spa has warranty problems do you have a nearby dealer? And if so did you ask them if they will cover you?
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I do have some reservations about the plug and play losing heat during the winter. What is the story with this type of tub? We live in Washington, DC and typically have pretty mild winters (usually barely gets below the 30s). Is a plug and play going to significantly run up our energy bill compared to a 240v and will it retain sufficient heat if we want to use it on a winter night?
It sounds like I could have an electrician add the circuit to our current breaker box rather than upgrading the entire thing, but I'll still have to have a trench dug out to where the hot tub will be located so they can add the new plug. I don't even want to know how much that will cost! Maybe I better break out my own shovel :)
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mine will maintain the heat. im in ny,but when you run them on `11o the pump has to be on low speed..so when you take the cover off and its cold they loose heat relatively fast,,i only stay in for 30 mins at most so its not an issue for me...and yes digging the trench for the conduit is the hardest most labor part of the job..but still it shouldnt break the bank
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I do have some reservations about the plug and play losing heat during the winter. What is the story with this type of tub? We live in Washington, DC and typically have pretty mild winters (usually barely gets below the 30s). Is a plug and play going to significantly run up our energy bill compared to a 240v and will it retain sufficient heat if we want to use it on a winter night?
It sounds like I could have an electrician add the circuit to our current breaker box rather than upgrading the entire thing, but I'll still have to have a trench dug out to where the hot tub will be located so they can add the new plug. I don't even want to know how much that will cost! Maybe I better break out my own shovel :)
The cost to run a 110v spa vs a 220v spa is basically the same. The difference is how rapidly it can heat up but not the amount of energy to get there or maintain temp. For example the 220v spa will heat it up about 4x as fast because its using about 4x as much energy so upon new fill it may get there in 5 hrs at 220V while the 110V spa will put in 1/4 the energy/hour and therefore require 20 hours to get to the final temp but the total KW used in the end is the same. The real difference is when you are in a 110V spa the heater can't run while the jet pump is on high (too many amps used at once) so if you're in it and you have the jets on high the heater automatically kicks off and it can lose temp fairly quickly depending on outside weather and since it heats up slower to regain that heat loss you may be limited on how long you can be in during cold times whereas a 220V spa can keep up temp even with the jet pumps on and in very cold conditions . That’s why there are some limitations if you live in Wisconsin, Maine, etc. We make and sell a lot of Freeflow spas in all staets and the plug and play ones go everywhere as well but its best to know how it works. In Washington DC its obviously not a big issue since your winters are mild relatively speaking.
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That is great information, thank you! So, do Freeflows have different levels for jets (ie, low, medium high)? And does the heater only turn off when on high? For example, if I have them on low or medium, the heater will remain on?
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Freeflow uses a 2spd pump so low speed/high speed and yes you will lose the heater when it's on high. Also 50 ft from the house unless I missed something is a long ways to walk when it's cold outside. From experience you will be more apt to use it long tem if it's closer..
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That is great information, thank you! So, do Freeflows have different levels for jets (ie, low, medium high)? And does the heater only turn off when on high? For example, if I have them on low or medium, the heater will remain on?
There is always just high speed and low speed on jet pumps, no medium. The heater will turn off if you manually turn the jets to high speed. Once you turn them back to low the heaters kicks back on. If you turn the jets off it will wait a few minutes and if it needs to raise the temp back up it will kick the pump onto low speed and start heating, its all automatic.
Per J-Jim's comment about the hot tub being 50 feet away from the house, I totally agree. Without knowing your backyard set up, keep the hot tub as close to the entrance/exit of the house as possible if you have a choice.
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Awesome, thank you so much for the info. We are going to check out the FreeFlow dealer tomorrow.
As for the placement of the tub, unfortunately, since we live in the city, we a have long, but somewhat narrow yard. Because of the placement of the AC compressor, there is no room for the hot tub to be close to the house. We need to put it on the parking pad (which is cement) and is about 50 feet away from the house. Fortunately for us, it never gets super cold here, and if it does it's only for a week or two.
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just going by what my situation is with my calspa..my tub is covered for 2 years by my closest cal dealer..when i called wayfair about the nordic warranty they stated it would be my local dealer..anyway do what you feel comfortable with ..you know what they say about opinions...
That's not what Nordic told their dealers because I specifically asked that. If one shows up in my area and they need warrentee work done they can either call wayfair or pay me my regular rates up front and get reimbursed by Nordic. Maybe that's why wayfair has so many complaints with the BBB because they give consumers mis-information. Out of curiosity if your cal spa has warranty problems do you have a nearby dealer? And if so did you ask them if they will cover you?
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Yes I spoke with the closest cal dealer after wayfair gave me his number...he asked me for serial number on spa and called me back and stated he is my authorized service provider and to contact him directly for any service issues
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Purchased a New Freeflow Accent 3/4 person in October. Paid $4000 for it...so far it's handled the cold South Dakota weather just fine and it runs great! I've used it down to 0 degrees with no problems. I went the 220 route though and that makes a difference. What I really like about the tub is it's easy maintenance. I can drain the 370 gallons and fill it back up in less than an hour. Not much for bells and whistles so this was the perfect tub for me! Good Luck, Jody
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Sounds good Jody! If the FreeFlow suits you in South Dakota, we should do fine with it in DC. I think we will try the 110v route first and see how well it does. If we find we need to upgrade, at least that option would be available down the road.
How do you find the jet strength when it is set to low?
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Jazzy..look at Costco aquaterra ..same exact tub as free flow made by same manufacturer..comes complete with steps and stainless jets ..and of course backed by Costco
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The freeflow is probably the best bet for you. It's made by a good stand up company. I really don't think you will save any money by purchasing through costco and I would recommend going through a local dealer that way you will have some where to go if problems do arise
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Yes he will save about 25% but true he won't have dealer backing..I would assume Costco would take care of him if any issues arise as they are unbeatable with customer satisfaction
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Maybe in Long Island but not the rst of the country lol.
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When a company sells a tub through costco, it is not necessarily constructed the same as what they sell through dealers. I have worked with a brand that sold through costco and had both versions in my store. While they looked the same at a glance, they were actually quite different. In order for a manufacturer to meet costco price demands, corners must be cut. Cheaper electronics, pumps, shell backing, etc.... On the surface the tubs can still look identical. Therein lies the problem. It's kind of like putting hyundai components in a mercedes body. It would look the same from the outside, but is it really the same?
Also, Costco does not have a service department. If you call costco and ask questions about water quality, or if you get an airlock (which happens frequently), or really anything, there won't be anyone there that knows anything about hot tubs.
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http://m.costco.com/CatalogSearch?langId=-1&storeId=10301&catalogId=10701&keyword=SPA0419&sortBy=PriceMax%7C1?&EMID=B2C_2013_0419_837_Seating
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Sounds good Jody! If the FreeFlow suits you in South Dakota, we should do fine with it in DC. I think we will try the 110v route first and see how well it does. If we find we need to upgrade, at least that option would be available down the road.
How do you find the jet strength when it is set to low?
When we first get in we start it off on low and after a few minutes we go to high...For us, we usually use the high setting...Good Luck