Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Wkerat on February 05, 2013, 07:44:36 pm
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Hi, after reading on here for a while I finally am ready to buy a tub. I have looked at Hot Springs, Sundance, and Emerald Spas, and hope to check out Jacuzzi tomorrow. Every other dealer is over an hour away. My closest dealer is Emerald Spas, but they just rubbed me wrong and I was not super comfortable so I have pretty much rounded them out. The Hot Springs dealer was the most professional and offered a wet test right away and to come to my house for a no charge site evaluation. Sundance said they will wet test, but I may have to drive to their second location where they have one set up, and was more about how they make the best tub, but did offer the best price. I originally wanted a lounger, but am debating after seeing the grandee.
Here are the models in order of interest so far:
Sundance Victoria w/ cover, delivery, chemicals, cover lift, and steps
Dry 2012 display model $8999 + tax
Hot Springs Envoy w/cover, delivery, chemicals, cover cradle 2, and steps
Dry 2012 display model $9687 + tax (+$500 for 2013)
Hot Springs Limelight Flair w/ cover, delivery, chemicals, cover cradle 2, and steps
New 2013 order $7837 + tax
Hot Springs Grandee w/ cover, delivery, chemicals, cover lift, and steps
Dry 2012 display model $10377 + tax
The flair is very appealing price wise, but I cannot wet test, although look wise it is similar to the envoy. Sundance is pushing a better filter and bearing less jets. Can anyone tell me the differences between the flair and envoy? I assume I can get him lower on the leftover envoy because for $500 I would probably order the new one. Also is the grandee worth the extra $? And how do these prices seem? I like the style of the Sundance and price wise it seems great, but have to ask a few questions to the dealer. Any info or advise would be appreciated as the more I shop the more confused I get. I am going to stop at another hot springs dealer, jacuzzi, and Sundance tomorrow so I can see all three in a short timeframe.
Thanks!
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very nice price on a Flair, esp. for a 2013 model....Big differences between the Flair and the Envoy will be:
1. jet variety (7 on envoy, 4 on the flair)
2. filtration (Envoy has 325sq ft. with tri-x filters standard w/ no-bypass filtration, the Flair has 1 65sq ft. filter with bypasses located in the footwell area)
3. size (Flair is a 3/4 person imo, the Envoy is a 4/5 person)
4. control panel (Envoy has a full lcd screen, Flair has a digital readout)
5. same warranty, both can do the ACE Salt System, both have 24hr circulation pump
other things would be aesthetics which are very subjective..things like the lighting, overall lines and design, etc.
If you have a chance to test the Envoy I would...its probably my fav. Hot Spring models because of the unique captains chair (which is awesome btw) and because it has 3 Jet Stream jets for your feet (out of this world awesome foot massage, hard pressed to find a better jet in the industry..in my opinion of course) and the cherry on top is the dual moto-massage (awesome for your back, calves when sitting on the edge of the tub, sides of your legs, etc....If you can't tell I looove the Envoy
of course my standard recommendation is always: test as many spas as possible, sales pitch is sales pitch and you'll never know what you truly love until you and your family try it out (yes its wonderful to save a $500, $1,000, etc. but how wonderful is it if you saved that money to buy a spa you don't really find comfortable)....and always always always do your best to gauge dealer competency
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Thank you for your reply. It sounds like the envoy may be well worth it over the flair. My main concern with the flair is I cannot test it (unless the other dealer has one). I've been reading all night and seem to really be between the envoy or Victoria, but will wet test the grandee as well since they have both in the showroom wet. Mi really appreciate your response!
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We looked at the Envoy and wet tested it. A very nice hot tub. We did not buy it because 1. it was the hardest tub for my wife to get in and out. 2. no cool down seat. If she had not been there to try the hot tub I would of had it high on my buy list.
The other huge thing again for the wife was to find a tub where she could stay in the seat with the jets on high and not float away. The one that worked for the both of us was the Sundance Optima.
I learned a great lesson. I wanted to surprise my wife with a hot tub and I'm sure she would have enjoyed the Hot Springs I was going to buy but I'm so glad I decided to tell her what I was doing and have her pick out what worked for her. She didn't care about the things that make people have nice discussion on here, filter systems, bypass no bypass. That was my job to find out what was best for us and I had three companies I would only buy from. They were Hot Springs, Sundance and Jacuzzi. I have to say I was way to caught up in all the stuff inside the cabinet and my wife got me to see what was the best tub for us.
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Thank you! I honestly failed to notice the lack of a cool down seat. That could be an important factor as I don't want to have to sit on the side all the time! I am trying to get my girlfriend to wet test them with me, but she as of now refuses to (feels weird about it ) so I'm looking into the internals and will find the one or two that fit me well and try to get her involved on the final decission.
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Thank you for your reply. It sounds like the envoy may be well worth it over the flair. My main concern with the flair is I cannot test it (unless the other dealer has one). I've been reading all night and seem to really be between the envoy or Victoria, but will wet test the grandee as well since they have both in the showroom wet. Mi really appreciate your response!
If someone is telling you the Sundance has a better filter I imagine they're talking about the micron filter and for me its the opposite. I'd want them to swap it out with a standard one piece filter which should be available unless that dealer doesn't carry it. Those micron filters just clog up quickly and are disposable which is what your money becomes when you have to keep replacing them every couple months versus a standard filter that works fine and lasts for years. I hate things that are designed to be thrown away when there is an alternative you can clean and you do not need anything filtering spa water at the micron level.
Otherwise, since both brands are good I'd decide based on the wet test, comfort with the dealer, what the deal includes and what kind of deal you can get.
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As far as getting your girlfriend to wet test the spa. If the tub is right on the sales floor we asked if we could come test the hot tub as close to closing time as possible. Remember it only takes at the most 10 minutes to see if you like the tub. I also told my wife it is no different then sitting in a hot tub at a resort with people walking by.
I have to say I learned a lot having my wife with me for the wet test. We tested the Hot Springs Aria, which I loved. My wife again pointed out if we had four people in the tub we would be playing footsie because the foot well is so small.
I have to laugh when I read how people on here cut down a manufacture on how they filter water or what the manufacture uses to help keep the water safe.
This is what the sales people that were trying to sell me their own produce said about their tubs.
Hot Springs. Don't buy the ACE system. To expensive. The five filter are good but don't buy the Tri-X Filters when you replace them. Just buy the regular filters.
Sundance. The inner filter works well but it has to be replaced in 6 months. Just buy a regular filter to replace the filter that comes with the tub. The UV bulb does need to be replaces once a year.
To me I feel good with these two companies making a tub that if I did my part and had the chemicals at the right levels I would feel fine having my friends in my tub.
Bottom line. A hot tub cost money every month to run no matter who builds it. Both these companies have their "we have the best system" I would have been very happy with the Hot Springs but the Sundance for MY FAMILY worked out the best.
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As far as getting your girlfriend to wet test the spa. If the tub is right on the sales floor we asked if we could come test the hot tub as close to closing time as possible. Remember it only takes at the most 10 minutes to see if you like the tub. I also told my wife it is no different then sitting in a hot tub at a resort with people walking by.
I have to say I learned a lot having my wife with me for the wet test. We tested the Hot Springs Aria, which I loved. My wife again pointed out if we had four people in the tub we would be playing footsie because the foot well is so small.
I have to laugh when I read how people on here cut down a manufacture on how they filter water or what the manufacture uses to help keep the water safe.
This is what the sales people that were trying to sell me their own produce said about their tubs.
Hot Springs. Don't buy the ACE system. To expensive. The five filter are good but don't buy the Tri-X Filters when you replace them. Just buy the regular filters.
Sundance. The inner filter works well but it has to be replaced in 6 months. Just buy a regular filter to replace the filter that comes with the tub. The UV bulb does need to be replaces once a year.
To me I feel good with these two companies making a tub that if I did my part and had the chemicals at the right levels I would feel fine having my friends in my tub.
Bottom line. A hot tub cost money every month to run no matter who builds it. Both these companies have their "we have the best system" I would have been very happy with the Hot Springs but the Sundance for MY FAMILY worked out the best.
I'm fine with people having opinions and I've heard plenty of good remarks and some that are jabs. I've heard them they try to knock Hot Spring's no-bypass filtertration or some used to say the single moto massage only hits your spine (when we came up with the dual-moto that killed that story) or someone might say the Aria footwell is too small even if its just for 3 people and is plenty large enough or one of the best was the BS that a manufacturer in California doesn't know how to make a spa energy efficient for cold weather and you want to buy from a spa maker based in a cold weather state, that one was a classic ...
In the end sometimes the info you get that may seem to be a knock can be helpful and comes from expereince but a lot is just a veiled attempt to sway people but for the most part consumers are smart enough to see the difference. They'll usually be able to tell the constructive critcism from someone just trying to knock the competition.
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As far as getting your girlfriend to wet test the spa. If the tub is right on the sales floor we asked if we could come test the hot tub as close to closing time as possible. Remember it only takes at the most 10 minutes to see if you like the tub. I also told my wife it is no different then sitting in a hot tub at a resort with people walking by.
I have to say I learned a lot having my wife with me for the wet test. We tested the Hot Springs Aria, which I loved. My wife again pointed out if we had four people in the tub we would be playing footsie because the foot well is so small.
I have to laugh when I read how people on here cut down a manufacture on how they filter water or what the manufacture uses to help keep the water safe.
This is what the sales people that were trying to sell me their own produce said about their tubs.
Hot Springs. Don't buy the ACE system. To expensive. The five filter are good but don't buy the Tri-X Filters when you replace them. Just buy the regular filters.
Sundance. The inner filter works well but it has to be replaced in 6 months. Just buy a regular filter to replace the filter that comes with the tub. The UV bulb does need to be replaces once a year.
To me I feel good with these two companies making a tub that if I did my part and had the chemicals at the right levels I would feel fine having my friends in my tub.
Bottom line. A hot tub cost money every month to run no matter who builds it. Both these companies have their "we have the best system" I would have been very happy with the Hot Springs but the Sundance for MY FAMILY worked out the best.
I'm fine with people having opinions and I've heard plenty of good remarks and some that are jabs. I've heard them they try to knock Hot Spring's no-bypass filtertration or some used to say the single moto massage only hits your spine (when we came up with the dual-moto that killed that story) or someone might say the Aria footwell is too small even if its just for 3 people and is plenty large enough or one of the best was the BS that a manufacturer in California doesn't know how to make a spa energy efficient for cold weather and you want to buy from a spa maker based in a cold weather state, that one was a classic ...
In the end sometimes the info you get that may seem to be a knock can be helpful and comes from expereince but a lot is just a veiled attempt to sway people but for the most part consumers are smart enough to see the difference. They'll usually be able to tell the constructive critcism from someone just trying to knock the competition.
Did you read what I wrote? These were the sales people selling me THEIR products. I don't care what the HS guys says about the Sundance or visa versa. That is my decision to make. All I was saying is that to a customer when the own companies sales persons says not to buy their own product it makes me think about that product and why would this person feel that way.
There is not one company that has a 100% positive feed back. From what I have be able to find HS have an incredible positive feed back from it's customers. It also has some very bad reviews. As long as there are two companies making the same product then it is up to the consumer to make a decision on what works best for them.
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Thank you for all the advice. I looked at Jacuzzi today and oddly enough they said the moto massage only hits the spine. I will say that I really likes their j-465 and j-375, but the prices were 2-3,000 more than the others. Are they actually that much more?
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Thank you for all the advice. I looked at Jacuzzi today and oddly enough they said the moto massage only hits the spine. I will say that I really likes their j-465 and j-375, but the prices were 2-3,000 more than the others. Are they actually that much more?
Its fine to listen to dealers about what they say about the competition or even what spa owners say about the brands they didn't choose or those that they did but sometimes you have to take it all with a grain of salt. What works or doesn't work for one person may not mean anything about how it will work for you.
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Thank you for all the advice. I looked at Jacuzzi today and oddly enough they said the moto massage only hits the spine. I will say that I really likes their j-465 and j-375, but the prices were 2-3,000 more than the others. Are they actually that much more?
funny, my moto hits my spine, my back, my calfs, my quads, my feet....he's probably never even sat in a tub with a moto...again like someone stated take sales pitch with a grain of salt, your already looking at good manufacturers so wet test various models and find out what YOU LIKE the best, not what some salesman is TELLING YOU you'll like. And yes the J4xx models get expensive, but its similar to pricing a Flair vs Envoy, in that the J4xx line will you get more features over J3xx, more lights, better control pad, more jets, etc. etc.
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Thank you again for your advise. I was informed today that the envoy has an extra $250 off but has been wet since May. To me this makes it a used tub for almost a year. What are your thoughts on that? I've read on here that people tend to stay away from tubs that have been wet at the dealership that long?
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If I got a good price on the tub and of course the full warranty (which I know they would give) I would have no problem buying the tub. The other thing is if the tub has any wear marks from people getting in and out that would make me ask for a better price.
If it gives you any second thoughts about buying a tub that has been wet for 9 months DON'T DO IT. You are looking at a tub that could have a life span of 15 or more years, 9 months being wet should not hurt the longevity. If you think it does then I would look at another manufacture. It all comes down to price you get and how you feel about it being used for 9 months.
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Thank you for all the advice. I looked at Jacuzzi today and oddly enough they said the moto massage only hits the spine.
That seems like an odd thing to say. While probably true, that is why tubs have more than one seat. I loved the moto massage and came real close to a Vanguard because of it. It may not be the greatest thing in the world to all people, but I sure love it.
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Guys the salesman at Jacuzzi is right when he said the Moto-Massage only hits your spine. It does. It is the Moto-Massage DX that hits both sides of the spine. The wife and I both hated the Moto-Massage in the Vanguard because of it hitting the middle of the spine. Yes you can move from side to side and it will hit different parts of the back. Now the Moto-Massage DX was fantastic. So as a good consumer that has done their homework they would make sure to tell the salesman the difference between the two Moto-Massages. It is always fun to help a sales person to learn a little more about his own product or a competitors.
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Guys the salesman at Jacuzzi is right when he said the Moto-Massage only hits your spine. It does. It is the Moto-Massage DX that hits both sides of the spine. The wife and I both hated the Moto-Massage in the Vanguard because of it hitting the middle of the spine. Yes you can move from side to side and it will hit different parts of the back. Now the Moto-Massage DX was fantastic. So as a good consumer that has done their homework they would make sure to tell the salesman the difference between the two Moto-Massages. It is always fun to help a sales person to learn a little more about his own product or a competitors.
But was the salesman really only referring to the single moto when he made the statement or was he saying it in a generic manner that would cover both types to the uninitiated because they're trying to sell a hot tub? Until the earth stops spinning there will always be some salesmen of hot tubs, cars, mattresses... that bring up the competition and try to knock them in one way or another to build themselves up to help make a sale. As long as the customer realizes this it really doesn't hurt much other than maybe the reputation of the person saying it if the customer is savvy enough and sometimes it makes the person go back to the other store to ask follow-up questions which can be a double edged sword.
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Guys the salesman at Jacuzzi is right when he said the Moto-Massage only hits your spine. It does. It is the Moto-Massage DX that hits both sides of the spine. The wife and I both hated the Moto-Massage in the Vanguard because of it hitting the middle of the spine. Yes you can move from side to side and it will hit different parts of the back. Now the Moto-Massage DX was fantastic. So as a good consumer that has done their homework they would make sure to tell the salesman the difference between the two Moto-Massages. It is always fun to help a sales person to learn a little more about his own product or a competitors.
But was the salesman really only referring to the single moto when he made the statement or was he saying it in a generic manner that would cover both types to the uninitiated because they're trying to sell a hot tub? Until the earth stops spinning there will always be some salesmen of hot tubs, cars, mattresses... that bring up the competition and try to knock them in one way or another to build themselves up to help make a sale. As long as the customer realizes this it really doesn't hurt much other than maybe the reputation of the person saying it if the customer is savvy enough and sometimes it makes the person go back to the other store to ask follow-up questions which can be a double edged sword.
You are correct that we don't know what he was referring to. With all the information at our finger tips (good and bad) we as consumers should go into buying a product that cost a good amount of money with "some" knowledge of the product we are looking at. The salesman is there to sell his product one way or another. A quality produce will sell itself.
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Guys the salesman at Jacuzzi is right when he said the Moto-Massage only hits your spine. It does. It is the Moto-Massage DX that hits both sides of the spine. The wife and I both hated the Moto-Massage in the Vanguard because of it hitting the middle of the spine. Yes you can move from side to side and it will hit different parts of the back. Now the Moto-Massage DX was fantastic. So as a good consumer that has done their homework they would make sure to tell the salesman the difference between the two Moto-Massages. It is always fun to help a sales person to learn a little more about his own product or a competitors.
But was the salesman really only referring to the single moto when he made the statement or was he saying it in a generic manner that would cover both types to the uninitiated because they're trying to sell a hot tub? Until the earth stops spinning there will always be some salesmen of hot tubs, cars, mattresses... that bring up the competition and try to knock them in one way or another to build themselves up to help make a sale. As long as the customer realizes this it really doesn't hurt much other than maybe the reputation of the person saying it if the customer is savvy enough and sometimes it makes the person go back to the other store to ask follow-up questions which can be a double edged sword.
You are correct that we don't know what he was referring to. With all the information at our finger tips (good and bad) we as consumers should go into buying a product that cost a good amount of money with "some" knowledge of the product we are looking at. The salesman is there to sell his product one way or another. A quality produce will sell itself.
LOL, he or she was just making a blanket statement and he knows it. Salespeople who sell based on negative comments about their competition don't worry about being specific in their knocks or even necessarily accurate. Do all salespeople use this tactic? Certianly not. Is it salespeople of a certian brand that use this tacitc? No, it is certainly not brand specific though some of the stronger brands see their salespeople do less of this and in fact train them not to but there is a certain human elelment that sometimes takes over.
In reality all the Hot Spring Highlife spas have a type of moto-massage except the Prodigy which does not get that jet type. As you'll see in any Hot Spring store the dual moto is the jet of choice in them:
Grandee - 2 Dual motos
Vista - 1 Dula moto
Envoy - 1 Dual moto
Aria - 1 Dula moto
Vanguard - 1 Dual moto + 1 single moto
Sovereign - 1 Dual moto
Jetsetter - 1 Dual moto
The old "the moto jet only hits your spine" has been around for decades. Once the dual moto came out the validity of that knock was basically elminated yet they still use it. Why? Because it suits them but thats fine, let the customer go back to the Hot Spring dealer to find out for themselves.
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Hot Springs Ace. When will HS be getting rid of the Moto-Massage and just have the DX? It seems to me that some of the criticism has been correct. It looks like it is being fazed out or will be sent down to the Limelight models. How many years ago did all the Hot Springs have atleast one Moto-Massage in the tub and now it has only one tub with the Moto-Massage.
The interesting thing to me was when my wife and I both said to the Hot Springs salesman that we didn't like the Moto-Massage but loved the DX he even said he hears that from to many customers. Good for Hot Springs for making a good product even better by replacing the M-M with the DX.
"The old "the moto jet only hits your spine" has been around for decades. Once the dual moto came out the validity of that knock was basically elminated yet they still use it. Why? Because it suits them but thats fine, let the customer go back to the Hot Spring dealer to find out for themselves" They still use that "old moto jet only hits your spine" because it is true. Until HS has no tub with the M-M then how can any one really say that a salesperson from a competitive line of tubs is saying this about all HS tubs. If I was a salesman and a customer came into my store and told me they were looking at a Vangaurd and I said the M-M was not that good because it just hits your spine would I be a bad salesman?
One thing my dad taught me was you better be able to prove what you are saying to a customer. I see to much on here being said ours is better because.....................I was told it is. Why can't ANY spa company have real world data to back up what they say. And if they do where is it so I can read it
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Would it be ok for a Toyota dealer to say "Chevys get poor gas mileage"? The Chevy dealer of course would say "Not true, look at the Spark, the Sonic, the Cruz, the ...". Wait though, that Toyota dealer is right because some Chevys don't get good gas mileage.
Bimmer I think you're being a little biased in your backing of a salesperson who would be go that route. If the salesman said "the single moto jets hit your spine" that would be fine but lets not be naive, I'd bet more than a couple dollars he used the "moto" term generically.
Sales people should stick to selling based on the merits on what they have on their sales room floor, I'm sure your dad would agree.
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Thank you again for your advise. I was informed today that the envoy has an extra $250 off but has been wet since May. To me this makes it a used tub for almost a year. What are your thoughts on that? I've read on here that people tend to stay away from tubs that have been wet at the dealership that long?
I'm sure there are some that wouldn’t want a floor model by definition alone and would only want one that is still in the package even if they can get a better deal on the floor model but I haven't seen people here on in person say they want to stay away from this situation.
If it is a floor model it will have a full warranty (but always verify). All dealers treat floor models differently so how much they discount it varies greatly. I personally wouldn't really hesitate as long as they gave me new filters and I was getting a good deal for taking the floor model but I'm not the one buying it. If you're talking about it from the standpoint of will the use of it on the showroom floor accelerate "the aging process" I wouldn't worry much about that other than what you can see (scratches, etc.).
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Would it be ok for a Toyota dealer to say "Chevys get poor gas mileage"? The Chevy dealer of course would say "Not true, look at the Spark, the Sonic, the Cruz, the ...". Wait though, that Toyota dealer is right because some Chevys don't get good gas mileage.
Bimmer I think you're being a little biased in your backing of a salesperson who would be go that route. If the salesman said "the single moto jets hit your spine" that would be fine but lets not be naive, I'd bet more than a couple dollars he used the "moto" term generically.
Sales people should stick to selling based on the merits on what they have on their sales room floor, I'm sure your dad would agree.
If you walk into a Toyota dealer and not even tell the salesperson what you are buying from Chev then he has every right to say that Chevy's get poor gas mileage.
If I walk into a spa dealer and say "I'm buying a Hot Springs" the sales persons says "the Moto-Massage only hits your spine" He is not incorrect. I agree that most sales people do use the Moto-Massage the wrong way to help in their sell. This is where Joe Public needs to learn about what he...or...she is looking to buy and do a little research.
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Thanks again everyone. As mentioned I contacted the Hot Springs dealer and he mentioned it is a different moto massage. Since I plan to wet test I did not take it to seriously. The Jacuzxi dealer did say Hot Springs and Sundance are both good, but also tried to point out negatives about the dealers without directly saying them. The only issue I have is based on comparisons I am looking at comparable models, yet instill cannot see where the extra cost for the Jacuzzi is coming from. I hope to schedule all 3 wet tests this week and see where things stand. Right now I am leaning towards the Sundance Victoria followed by the envoy, but feel the envoy needs to be a little better deal for me to buy the display model because for the little extra I will order exactly what I want. Since he has two wet envoy's (one in each store) I have a feeling he will give me a better deal.
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Price wise you are looking at 2 different series. So If your looking at the Sundance Victoria you should be looking at the Jacuzzi JlXL and see where they are price wise in comparison, they are for the most part identical.
The J-465 is more inline with the 800 series Sundance Cameo. Price a Cameo out and see if its on par with the Jacuzzi J-465 If you like the lounge, the Sundance Altimar or the J-355 would line up nicely also. You have to remember each dealer has different overhead and what they ask for their spa might be different from another Jacuzzi dealer across the street with a bigger store. Now if it's one company with Jacuzzi in one store and Sundance in another they should be very close in price within reason..
As far as the envoy it sounds like a good price, just not much in the way of leg jets, but that may not make a difference..
Once you are done researching and wet testing narrow it down to what you like between 2 spa's and go from there, you are looking at 2 different but very good mnfgs, between Jacuzzi/Sundance and H,springs.
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Thank you again for your advise. I was informed today that the envoy has an extra $250 off but has been wet since May. To me this makes it a used tub for almost a year. What are your thoughts on that? I've read on here that people tend to stay away from tubs that have been wet at the dealership that long?
warranty starts on day of delivery so your covered there...Its also safe to assume that since the tub is wet that someone there is competent to maintain it properly so I would not worry, but like stated above check for scratches, dents, dings, etc. so there are no surprises on day of delivery and I'd try to negotiate a little more "floor model discount"...just my opinion
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Thank you! I just spoke to the Sundance dealer and they are going to fill the Victoria for a wet test next week. Along with that they knocked another $500 off with no negotiation for the February special so that makes it very appealing as I think they will go even further if I negotiate a bit, but on paper it seems like a lot of spa for the money. I hope to also wet test the envoy the day of or evening before so I hope that narrows it down. I did price the cameo as well and he came in $400 less than then the J-375 for an ordered unit and $2400 less an the 465 so I contacted a different Jacuzzi dealer to see if they are more flexible. Thanks to everyone's help I am slowly narrowing this search down.
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Thank you! I just spoke to the Sundance dealer and they are going to fill the Victoria for a wet test next week. Along with that they knocked another $500 off with no negotiation for the February special so that makes it very appealing as I think they will go even further if I negotiate a bit, but on paper it seems like a lot of spa for the money. I hope to also wet test the envoy the day of or evening before so I hope that narrows it down. I did price the cameo as well and he came in $400 less than then the J-375 for an ordered unit and $2400 less an the 465 so I contacted a different Jacuzzi dealer to see if they are more flexible. Thanks to everyone's help I am slowly narrowing this search down.
I suggest you do 2 things. Try to schedule the wet tests for the same day if possible so that you can compare them properly. When scheduling it or when you are there find a way to let it be known you've scheduled competing brands for testing that same day/weekend so they know they need to win your business which will help as you negotiate.
Never hesisitate to negotiate but also when they give you pricing ask them to write down exactly what is included: steps, cover, chems (is it just the starter kit), lifter (and which kind exactly), will the lifter be installed (typically yes but make sure), subpanel, orientation... so you know you're comparing apples to apples.
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Very good point, I got stuff in writing, but did want to verify cover and lift. Never thought of amount of chems and if the cover lift would be installed. I know two places deliver to your location as they want to do a site inspection first, but the third did not clarify.
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Thank you everyone for all of your help. After negotiating I rounded the Jacuzzi out because even their best price was almost $2000 more then the others prior to negotiating. The closest they came was with the lxl, but that was still too high so my plan was to wet test the Victoria and envoy. I ended up wet testing the Sundance today and loved it! The salesman was great, went over everything, and when hooking it up even left the panel off so I could see inside (this was a 2012 display model they had dry, but filled for me). After the wet test he told me he had bad news and someone else purchased that tub this morning just before I came. He said that since I was working with him first though he would match the deal, but would not be able to offer me the $500 factory rebate, on a custom ordered 2013 (in the color I wanted to begin with). Anyway, long story short, I told him i was very dissapointed as i had cash in hand and that I was going to go test the envoy because I really wanted one soon, they had it in stock, and I was ready to purchase today. With this I got him to not only match my original deal with the $500 rebate, but also knock another $500 off and upgrade the stairs from basic plastic ones to the Sundance ones that match! I was so happy with this deal that I put my deposit down and skipped testing the envoy as he was only a few hundred more than the Hot Springs Flair and a few thousand less than the envoy, which has been wet since May. Now all I need to do is get the electric in and wait, but should have it in March.
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Thank you everyone for all of your help. After negotiating I rounded the Jacuzzi out because even their best price was almost $2000 more then the others prior to negotiating. The closest they came was with the lxl, but that was still too high so my plan was to wet test the Victoria and envoy. I ended up wet testing the Sundance today and loved it! The salesman was great, went over everything, and when hooking it up even left the panel off so I could see inside (this was a 2012 display model they had dry, but filled for me). After the wet test he told me he had bad news and someone else purchased that tub this morning just before I came. He said that since I was working with him first though he would match the deal, but would not be able to offer me the $500 factory rebate, on a custom ordered 2013 (in the color I wanted to begin with). Anyway, long story short, I told him i was very dissapointed as i had cash in hand and that I was going to go test the envoy because I really wanted one soon, they had it in stock, and I was ready to purchase today. With this I got him to not only match my original deal with the $500 rebate, but also knock another $500 off and upgrade the stairs from basic plastic ones to the Sundance ones that match! I was so happy with this deal that I put my deposit down and skipped testing the envoy as he was only a few hundred more than the Hot Springs Flair and a few thousand less than the envoy, which has been wet since May. Now all I need to do is get the electric in and wait, but should have it in March.
Can I say "you did a hell of a good job". Glad you got the tub for the price you were happy with. Cool the dealer helped you out. I just got my 2013 Sundance Optima installed yesterday and all I can say is wow!!!
Enjoy your new tub :D