Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Terry Action on January 22, 2013, 03:10:37 pm
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I know I know, it got bad ratings on Amazon, but I got it less than half price at $400. Anyway, it took really slow to heat up. It took four days to reach 100 from around 45 degree hose water. The problem is it outsize is now sub-freezing (22 degrees in NYC) and the hot tub dropped to 97 degrees overnight. Even in extreme cold, I'm guessing this isn't normal. By the way, I put a brand new filter in. I even tried running it overnight without l filter. No difference.
So, what do I do? I heard the heat can be adjusted (turn of a screw?), but how? I'm very new to the hot tub world. In fact, I have never been in an outdoor one, ever. Anyway, here is a pic I took as soon as I set it up:
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/156324_10151337793748503_1063151509_n.jpg)
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My guess would be that it does not actually have a heater but uses a friction pump which would be why it would take 4 days to heat up to start with and not be able to stay there during the coldest time. A picture of your inside equipment would veify this.
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My guess would be that it does not actually have a heater but uses a friction pump which would be why it would take 4 days to heat up to start with and not be able to stay there during the coldest time. A picture of your inside equipment would veify this.
I'll try and get you a pic soon, but can't check right now. To do so, I'll need to disconnect the power pack/pump and turn it upside down, where there are several screws. The problem is if I disconnect it, I have to drain it several inches below filtration, and I won't be able to fill it back up because my garden hose is frozen (damn 22 degree weather is awful). I can tell you that it's supposed to heat up 1 to 1 1/2 degrees an hour, and is 110 volt.
Here's a pic I found throw a search, however:
(http://www.oceantis.com/pictures/93.jpg)
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Those are cool and very cheap. We use them for sitting in when we are watching our local marathon. Then we put them away for winter. Seal it up tight with the cover on and the heat set as high as possible. Then open it quickly and enjoy your 20 minute soak. Then jump out seal it up and walk away until it is hot again in a day or 2.
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Those are cool and very cheap. We use them for sitting in when we are watching our local marathon. Then we put them away for winter. Seal it up tight with the cover on and the heat set as high as possible. Then open it quickly and enjoy your 20 minute soak. Then jump out seal it up and walk away until it is hot again in a day or 2.
Which Marathon is that?
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I don't see a cover in the picture. Do you have a cover?
From a quick search, Spa-N-A-Box's have a 1 kWh 110Volt heater and are 280 gallons. The heater should give you 8 kW in an 8 hour period (running the whole time). Your spa lost about 10 kW worth of heat (the 8 kW your heater provides and 2.05 kW more in heat loss from the water (100-97 degrees). This is a lot of loss in 8 hours. Your fill losses were only 14 kW per day (280 gallons from 45-100 degrees should take 37.4 kW yours took 24 x 1kW x 4 days = 96 kW). Did you fill it during those warm days we had in the NE last week?
I still have to ask, do you have it covered?
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I don't see a cover in the picture. Do you have a cover?
Its called Grandmas Marathon from Two Harbors to Duluth in Northern Minnesota. You've probably never heard of it.
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I don't see a cover in the picture. Do you have a cover?
From a quick search, Spa-N-A-Box's have a 1 kWh 110Volt heater and are 280 gallons. The heater should give you 8 kW in an 8 hour period (running the whole time). Your spa lost about 10 kW worth of heat (the 8 kW your heater provides and 2.05 kW more in heat loss from the water (100-97 degrees). This is a lot of loss in 8 hours. Your fill losses were only 14 kW per day (280 gallons from 45-100 degrees should take 37.4 kW yours took 24 x 1kW x 4 days = 96 kW). Did you fill it during those warm days we had in the NE last week?
I still have to ask, do you have it covered?
Yes, the cover and inflatable float inside are both on. I took the pic as soon as I filled it up. Anyway, I just checked at 8:00 PM and it's down to 91 degrees. :(
I filled it from hose water 8 days ago, when it was roughly 45 degrees. It was about 18 degrees today outside in NYC.
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I would put it away until spring. I can only imagine how much electricity that uses in the winter
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One possibility is that the heater is no longer working. Not sure how to check that.
But I suspect that it may be an insulation issue. It did lose 58.6 kW of the 96 kW possibly used heating the water during the fill even though it was a balmy 45 degrees ??? , so maybe it is just fairly poorly insulated can't keep up with the loses. As Hottubguy suggests it may be better as a three season hot tub.
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One possibility is that the heater is no longer working. Not sure how to check that.
But I suspect that it may be an insulation issue. It did lose 58.6 kW of the 96 kW possibly used heating the water during the fill even though it was a balmy 45 degrees ??? , so maybe it is just fairly poorly insulated can't keep up with the loses. As Hottubguy suggests it may be better as a three season hot tub.
It's working. If I put my hand inside, I can feel warm water flowing. Being 19 degrees outside now, I suspect it would drop a lot more if it wasn't working at all.
It could be an insulation issue. If you do a search for my particular hot tub, it's supposed to come with foam that you put under the liner. Mine didn't come with any.
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You get more heat off the motor in that then you do from any heating element...most owners here in Colorado don't keep those for more then a year. I've thrown several away and have a couple in the back room that have bad equipment.
The liners dry out very rapidly here after draining....
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If there is no insulation under the liner, that explains it.
One possibility is that the heater is no longer working. Not sure how to check that.
But I suspect that it may be an insulation issue. It did lose 58.6 kW of the 96 kW possibly used heating the water during the fill even though it was a balmy 45 degrees ??? , so maybe it is just fairly poorly insulated can't keep up with the loses. As Hottubguy suggests it may be better as a three season hot tub.
It's working. If I put my hand inside, I can feel warm water flowing. Being 19 degrees outside now, I suspect it would drop a lot more if it wasn't working at all.
It could be an insulation issue. If you do a search for my particular hot tub, it's supposed to come with foam that you put under the liner. Mine didn't come with any.
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Wow - NO insulation? Not only will that not work in a climate like yours, but if you really try to run it a lot you could easily spend the price of a more conventional tub in power, over time.
Freeflow tubs start at $2995, and they are full insulated, come with a great cover, and if you want to store it, one person can drain and move it.
Just sayin'
Other than THAT...
Welcome to Spatopia! May you soak long and prosper. In warmer weather...
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Thanks for the tips, guys. Yeah, no insulation from the bottom. The liner is just sitting on the cold concrete. I did a search, and was unable to buy the insulation for Spa N A Box on eBay or anywhere else. I just ordered something called "Carpenter Memory Foam Mattress Topper" on Amazon. I'm going to cut in, and place it down when I drain the spa and set it back up. You think that will help?
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No, most definitely not the right stuff. Go look into the rigid insulation at home depot. I'm not sure if it can handle that much weight though, you may want to consider building a small wooden platform you can then insulate with the rigid foam, in order to get it off the ground.
Are the sides insulated at least?
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I would go with rigid insulation board at a home center - perhaps even top it with a sheet of CDX plywood.
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If you compress the insulation, it loses most of it's ability to insulate, which it does by holding air. The rigid stuff has pockets of air fixed in the material and the rigid structure keeps it from compressing.
Get the high compressive foam, you shouldn't need any wood with that. It can handle 40 psi load, which should be alright unless the load bearing areas of the hot tub are not spread out adequately.
This stuff or similar:
http://commercial.owenscorning.com/products/foam/foamular-400/ (http://commercial.owenscorning.com/products/foam/foamular-400/)
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Thanks again, guys. I know I must come across as a fool, but I'm real new to this. Although I ordered that bed foam from Amazon, I'm going to send it back. I'm going to Home Depot later and will buy that foamular stuff.
And to answer the other question, yes, the sides are insulated with the foam panels it comes with.
Finally, although the temp outside here has stayed around the same (It's 25 right now), my hot tub is still at 91. That's what it dropped to the other night, and it's holding. Gonna shut off the motor and siphon the water out (I'm gonna freeze, but whatever), then head to Home Depot.
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Any chance of adding a heavy blanket or cloth tarp/blanket combo over top of of the whole unit? I hate to see you empty the thing in sub-freezing weather: you could easily freeze a small amount of water somewhere and do a large amount of damage to the unit.
Don't know if you have warm weather in the forecast anytime soon, but I would sure wait until it's warmer (relatively speaking) to drain and set the thing up on insulation board.
HTH
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Well, I drained it the other night when it was like 18 degrees. Nothing froze, so no worries. The siphon took around an hour I think (maybe a little more, I can't remember), and when the water was done, the wet bottom was still warm. I quickly disassembled, and brought everything inside.
I took someone's advise here and went to Home Depot to look for that Foamula 400, 40 psi load. Well, they didn't have it, but they did have this (http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100320343/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=foamular&storeId=10051&superSkuId=202938960#.UQVwQh1EGSo), Foamular F-250, which is 25 psi. I bought the panels, and cut them perfectly. Hopefully it will be strong enough. Remember, this is a small hot tub, holding 280 gallons of water or so.
Anyway, I laid it down in the backyard and set it up. Last night I attached a faucet-adapter to my sink, and attached the garden hose to it and filled it with hot water (hope this is safe to do). Since it's a sink, the water came out slower than normal. Took like two and a half hours. By the time it was finished filling up (because it was so damn cold out), the water was just warm (I would guess in the 70-80 range, just by touching it). I turned on the filter/heater, covered everything, and went to bed.
When I got up around 12:10 this afternoon (yeah, I know, late but hey it's Sunday and I like to sleep on my day off), the temperature outside was 32 degrees, the warmest in nearly a week. I quickly went outside to check the hot tub, and expected the worst (just my nature). To my surprise, it was 97 degrees! Well, just to be sure, I went back in the house and said to myself that I would check it again in exactly two hours, at 2:10 PM. Well, just went back outside and it's 98 degrees. Still only up one degree in two hours, but at least it's doing more than holding, and isn't dropping.
I will have an update again later tonight. I'm going out to eat with a bunch of friends at 7:30, and should be back home around 11:00 tonight. Will it reach 104? I doubt it, but time will tell!
Edit: I just decided to check it at 4:10, and it's up to 100. Two degrees in two hours seems about right in this cold, so it does seem to be holding up. Looks like the insulation worked!
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Congratulations on the insulation helping.
The only concern with the lower psi rating is point loads. Distributed load from the water/people/weight of the spa (3000 lbs or so distributed under a 6' dia) it will easily carry (less than 2 psi). But a point load would be a person standing in the bottom with only liner between them and the insulation. Point load for a person standing on the heel of one foot can be pretty high and may exceed 25 lbs (not sure of the effect of buoyancy on the person). A 200 lb person walking exerts 20 psi on the heel. So you should be okay for most people, unless they are pretty large. 40 psi would have given you a pretty good shot of exceeding most possible scenarios, but I think you'll be okay.
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Maybe you got a lemon? Best bet is to always buy new. Here is a pic of ours in our NY winter.. these things do work great as I have had a few friends and my aunt buy one after seeing ours.
(https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=571965659493477&set=pb.198923970130983.-2207520000.1379514134.&type=3&theater)
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He sold it long ago and got a real portable spa. With a heater. They won't maintain heat in Northern Minnesota winters so we put them away. Summer only.
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I had a Spa2Go, which is inflatable, but uses the same pump/blower unit.
I believe it's only a 1kw heater.
On mine, this took about 1.5 hours to heat a degree celcius.
It took at least 2 days to go from sub 16°C up to 40°C.
With the blower motor running, water would quite easily drop 1°C in 20-30 minutes.
Spa n a Box, has no insulation what so ever, so the temperature is going to drop like a stone, with the heater not having a chance to keep up with it.
These things are awesome in the summer, but i could imagine short lived in the winter.
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He sold it long ago and got a real portable spa. With a heater. They won't maintain heat in Northern Minnesota winters so we put them away. Summer only.
Yup, that was me. I sold it to get a Voyager Spa. I like it, but the problem is that it is even more obscure than Spa N' A Box. I want a hard top but how with the motor half in/half out? Here's a link to the spa with pics:
http://www.showerandspashop.com/voyagerindex.html
Here's my Voyager topic right here:
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/forum/index.php?topic=16575.0
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I still don't get it. You could buy a traditional tub for just a bit more. Maybe it would be a simple tub like this:
(http://freeflowspas.com/images/new-spas/cascina-big-espresso-top.jpg)
Which we sell for just over two grand. I have the predecessor for this tub on my floor in gray with cover and delivery for $1995 plus tax.
This is a 110 plug and play - convertible to 220!! Fully foam insulated - except around the equipment - with a good cover.
I hope you get good service and lots of enjoyment out of the Voyager tub! I just don't see that type of tub as a viable alternative to the more conventional tubs, even if you have to pay a bit more. Operating costs just keep going on and on as long as you own your tub...
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