Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: vjsj35 on December 05, 2012, 01:53:35 pm
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I'm going to make this quick. W/o Trying to sound like a cheap guy or a 'you get what you pay for' person, I 'm in a bind.
Tons of hot tub stores around here in NEPA and I even know some store owners. Is retail the way to go ? I get it with the customer service aspect of it but are there any reliable direct online places anyone suggests? I find NOTHING really on integrity spas. same with spadepot.com all i see is Belize. They look AWESOME but not sure of the quality.
all over craigslist is laguna bay. that probably isn't good bet either b/c they flood craigslist.
NOW BACK TO RETAIL : I have Sundance by me , Hot Spring, and Caldera I think. Are any of these a HOME RUN ?
thanks in advance.
I'd like a lounger, a descent amount of jets, seats 5 to 6 , and I can get under 6k. ALSO WOULD U SUGGEST FLOOR MODELS BEING END OF YEAR? Any help would be appreciated.
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Being in retail I would as most would stay away from internet and c,list spa's like the Laguna bay. That being said if you bought one would you be happy? Up untill till breaks down and it will with time.
Couple things are whats your price range, or where do you wanna be?
Sundance,H,spring and Cladera all are nice spa's and offer different sizes and price ranges in the 3500 range (free flow spas) to the 13,000 range. Most here as you know will agree on internet spa's as a bad choice, while I am sure there are many happy owners it's a chance you take. As far as C,list if you can find a decent deal on any of the Sundance,Jacuzzi, or H,spring and Cladera lines as long as they were well taken care of and are up and running sometimes you can get lucky and find something that works for you. Most of the time you have to move quick though when you find one as there are a 1000 plus other people looking as well.
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I'm going to make this quick. W/o Trying to sound like a cheap guy or a 'you get what you pay for' person, I 'm in a bind.
Tons of hot tub stores around here in NEPA and I even know some store owners. Is retail the way to go ? I get it with the customer service aspect of it but are there any reliable direct online places anyone suggests? I find NOTHING really on integrity spas. same with spadepot.com all i see is Belize. They look AWESOME but not sure of the quality.
all over craigslist is laguna bay. that probably isn't good bet either b/c they flood craigslist.
NOW BACK TO RETAIL : I have Sundance by me , Hot Spring, and Caldera I think. Are any of these a HOME RUN ?
thanks in advance.
I'd like a lounger, a descent amount of jets, seats 5 to 6 , and I can get under 6k. ALSO WOULD U SUGGEST FLOOR MODELS BEING END OF YEAR? Any help would be appreciated.
Hi there - I'm also in NEPA and purchased a tub a year or two ago. In my little hole, 18428, the nearest dealers were each 50 minutes away or so which complicated things. Settled on Sundance and have been happy with the purchase. I'm a DIY sorta type, so I've never contacted the dealer for help/support. Asked a few questions here about chemistry and that's that.
For what its worth, I like shopping local where its reasonable. And like the safety net of having a human to speak to if something goes wrong. On the other hand, I'll go online for commodities like chlorine etc.
Everyone will tell you - wet test. Can't do that with an online retailer. And it would be poor form, in my opinion, to wet test from location A and then buy it online. Just not very respectful of the time and energy the dealership spent on you.
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I'm going to make this quick. W/o Trying to sound like a cheap guy or a 'you get what you pay for' person, I 'm in a bind.
Tons of hot tub stores around here in NEPA and I even know some store owners. Is retail the way to go ? I get it with the customer service aspect of it but are there any reliable direct online places anyone suggests? I find NOTHING really on integrity spas. same with spadepot.com all i see is Belize. They look AWESOME but not sure of the quality.
all over craigslist is laguna bay. that probably isn't good bet either b/c they flood craigslist.
NOW BACK TO RETAIL : I have Sundance by me , Hot Spring, and Caldera I think. Are any of these a HOME RUN ?
thanks in advance.
I'd like a lounger, a descent amount of jets, seats 5 to 6 , and I can get under 6k. ALSO WOULD U SUGGEST FLOOR MODELS BEING END OF YEAR? Any help would be appreciated.
Sundance, Hot Spring and Caldera are 3 of the best out there so its good you have multiple choices in your area. Floor models are a good way to go to get the price a little lower. Its all about timing of when they’re going to move them out but ask. Internet spas are a huge risk IMO. Craigslist spas are very hit and miss plus you really need to be patient to find the right person wanting to sell something that is of good quality because they are moving or something as opposed to someone trying to get rid of their junk and hoping you'll take it off their hands, you'd have to pay me to get me to take the majority of spas on Craigslist. Plus, when you buy used you really need to be a serious DIYer, there is almost always work needed to be done or will be soon after you get it going.
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Wet test! I was very reluctant (actuly my wife) to climb into a tub in the middle of a show room. But I was amazed at how different they feel. Also simple things like diverter valves and what seats will run at the same time, entry and exit point, control location. All of these things I never gave much thought too, but after you try several different ones you find things that are important to you.
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Thank you all so much for the replies. I went from showroom retail thoughts to internet out of just budget and trying to pinch a penny but i went back to local retail and deep down aggree with all of you. if you have a local retailer you can talk to, wet test and the fact have Customer service, it's almost worth the extra 1 to 1500k u pay for. any other comments I appreciate but thanks again for all your ideas and replies.
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hot spring ace... either it's my computer and the links or the caldera and hot spring spa you sent me are the EXACT same spa. that's scary that they have the exact make up, etc and are 2 diff companies. that's why i wonder if buy laguna bay or belize online if it's the same as a hot spring or sundance in retail but a 3 k mark up. scary.
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Thank you all so much for the replies. I went from showroom retail thoughts to internet out of just budget and trying to pinch a penny but i went back to local retail and deep down aggree with all of you. if you have a local retailer you can talk to, wet test and the fact have Customer service, it's almost worth the extra 1 to 1500k u pay for. any other comments I appreciate but thanks again for all your ideas and replies.
The extra money gets you more than just customer support. There is no online retailer or box store that can get you the same quality, energy efficiency, feel or longevity. They sell them over the internet and at box stores cheaper because they cut corners to make them cheaper. That's not to say that cheaper is bad but you have to lower your expectations.
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Being in retail I would as most would stay away from internet and c,list spa's like the Laguna bay.
To the original poster, I'm not in retail, I have no affiliation with the industry at all, but I completely agree with this statement. (minus any real experiences specifically with Laguna Bay) I appreciate your frustration and can only add, take your time. Hot tubs are great, but there is no problem if you get it this week, next week, or next year. I have owned 2 now. The shopping experiences were completely different. The first time I was overwhelmed and got tired and just bought where I had an offer. The second time was a much more relaxed and pleasurable experience.
I'm not that mechanically inclined and not much of a do-it-yourselfer. Those people might have better luck with CL spas or internet companies. But its not for me. Good luck with whatever you do.
Oh, you mentioned Sundance, Hot Springs, and Caldera. I ended up buying a Sundance and I'm very happy. My 2nd choice might have been a Hot Spring or a Jacuzzi that I know I would have also been happy with.
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Wet test! I was very reluctant (actuly my wife) to climb into a tub in the middle of a show room. But I was amazed at how different they feel. Also simple things like diverter valves and what seats will run at the same time, entry and exit point, control location. All of these things I never gave much thought too, but after you try several different ones you find things that are important to you.
Great point and well said. We never wet tested and I bought a tub that I thought was the best. It lasted 10 years and was good, but after being in this forum the next 10 years I followed my own advice and learned a lot and now we are very happy with tub 2
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Thank you all so much for the replies. I went from showroom retail thoughts to internet out of just budget and trying to pinch a penny but i went back to local retail and deep down aggree with all of you. if you have a local retailer you can talk to, wet test and the fact have Customer service, it's almost worth the extra 1 to 1500k u pay for. any other comments I appreciate but thanks again for all your ideas and replies.
you'll pay more than $1500 more for a decent spa vs. a container shipped Chinese junker from an online outlet
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all over craigslist is laguna bay. that probably isn't good bet either b/c they flood craigslist.
NO KIDDING! >:( They are so out of control in WI, it's insane. These people are beyond annoying with their non-stop throughout-the-day postings; minor tweak to the title, but the same specs and the same absurd and insulting list prices and two stock photos. If anyone really loves this company, I'd contact them directly and let them know their sales people (which it seems any Tom, Dick or Harry working out of their apartment can be a "rep" for them), that they are really doing PR damage with these un-ending Craigslist postings – guess they can’t see how “cheap and desperate” they are coming across as.
Now, if you really want to know how I feel about their marketing tactics, just ask me... ;) ;D
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hot spring ace... either it's my computer and the links or the caldera and hot spring spa you sent me are the EXACT same spa. that's scary that they have the exact make up, etc and are 2 diff companies. that's why i wonder if buy laguna bay or belize online if it's the same as a hot spring or sundance in retail but a 3 k mark up. scary.
I'm not sure why you think its scary, maybe I need to explain it further. Watkins has Hot Spring dealers and Caldera dealers. They compete against each other just like GM and Buick dealers compete against each other. Most of the Hot Spring products and Caldera products are unique to each other. However, a few years ago Watkins saw a need for a value brand in that $5500 to $7k range and created the Hot Spot line for Hot Springs and Vacanza for Caldera that they sell to each just like GM may make a car for both Chevy and Buick which is basically the same car just branded differently for each.
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hot spring ace... either it's my computer and the links or the caldera and hot spring spa you sent me are the EXACT same spa. that's scary that they have the exact make up, etc and are 2 diff companies. that's why i wonder if buy laguna bay or belize online if it's the same as a hot spring or sundance in retail but a 3 k mark up. scary.
I'm not sure why you think its scary, maybe I need to explain it further. Watkins has Hot Spring dealers and Caldera dealers. They compete against each other just like GM and Buick dealers compete against each other. Most of the Hot Spring products and Caldera products are unique to each other. However, a few years ago Watkins saw a need for a value brand in that $5500 to $7k range and created the Hot Spot line for Hot Springs and Vacanza for Caldera that they sell to each just like GM may make a car for both Chevy and Buick which is basically the same car just branded differently for each.
Well, lets not use GM as a good business model, k? GM has GMC, Chevy and Buick competing against each other. With essentially the same vehicle, re-badged with minor tweaks to the interior and options. Its the same model they ran for decades, and the same business model that nearly drove them out of business. They've already killed olds, pontiac, saab, hummer for that exact same reason. Too much product (88 different vehicles at one point) with virtually no differentiation. So it is a bit "scary" to see other industries follow the same lousy business model. Lousy? Yes. Because the only reason it can succeed is at the expense of the consumer, where the lack of transparency/viability into specs and reliability lead to inflated prices.
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of all the spa brands on the market, people are scared/worried about Hot Springs' business model?? hahahahaha (sorry funniest thing I've read on the web today) you do realize Hot Spring is owned by a multi-BILLION dollar Fortune 500 company right? Hot Spring and Jacuzzi may own the entire industry one day...ok maybe a little far fetched but if the economy doesn't pick up most of the "small fish" will eventually get eaten up. Between '08 and '09 over 33% of spa manufacturers disappeared or were bought up by other companies and the trend continues today, I believe the number went from 150 to less than 100 in that short time frame.
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of all the spa brands on the market, people are scared/worried about Hot Springs' business model?? hahahahaha (sorry funniest thing I've read on the web today) you do realize Hot Spring is owned by a multi-BILLION dollar Fortune 500 company right? Hot Spring and Jacuzzi may own the entire industry one day...ok maybe a little far fetched but if the economy doesn't pick up most of the "small fish" will eventually get eaten up. Between '08 and '09 over 33% of spa manufacturers disappeared or were bought up by other companies and the trend continues today, I believe the number went from 150 to less than 100 in that short time frame.
This could be an interesting discussion around the definition of "good". Good for the consumer, or good for the local dealer, or good for the multi-gazillion dollar company. Could've been at least. Instead, might I suggest you check out www.reddit.com/funny if my post about GM's business model was your biggest laugh of the day.
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hot spring ace... either it's my computer and the links or the caldera and hot spring spa you sent me are the EXACT same spa. that's scary that they have the exact make up, etc and are 2 diff companies. that's why i wonder if buy laguna bay or belize online if it's the same as a hot spring or sundance in retail but a 3 k mark up. scary.
I'm not sure why you think its scary, maybe I need to explain it further. Watkins has Hot Spring dealers and Caldera dealers. They compete against each other just like GM and Buick dealers compete against each other. Most of the Hot Spring products and Caldera products are unique to each other. However, a few years ago Watkins saw a need for a value brand in that $5500 to $7k range and created the Hot Spot line for Hot Springs and Vacanza for Caldera that they sell to each just like GM may make a car for both Chevy and Buick which is basically the same car just branded differently for each.
Well, lets not use GM as a good business model, k? GM has GMC, Chevy and Buick competing against each other. With essentially the same vehicle, re-badged with minor tweaks to the interior and options. Its the same model they ran for decades, and the same business model that nearly drove them out of business. They've already killed olds, pontiac, saab, hummer for that exact same reason. Too much product (88 different vehicles at one point) with virtually no differentiation. So it is a bit "scary" to see other industries follow the same lousy business model. Lousy? Yes. Because the only reason it can succeed is at the expense of the consumer, where the lack of transparency/viability into specs and reliability lead to inflated prices.
Except Watkins only does this with a couple models in the value brand end of the business whereas GM did this pretty much top to bottom.
Hot Spring has the Highlife and Limelight collections while Caldera has the Paradise and Utopia and they are NOTHING like each other. The fact they each share 3 models in the Hot Spot and Vacanza lines does not muddy the water. Its their way of making moderately priced spas available to the dealers to compete on all levels and has worked remarkably well for both the dealers and consumers.
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Last night I went to the Laguna Bay "showroom" near Philadelphia.
I took the side covers off an X-12 model spa to check out the build quality.
I was REALLY hoping to be able to say "Well, it's not *that* bad", but I couldn't ... while it looked real nice on top, there was a distinct lack of quality and workmanship under the hood.
Pumps were held down to plywood bits with utility screws, wires were loose (even one pump ground wire wasn't grounded) and just laying on the bottom.
I could put up with some "not pretty" for the sake of saving a few thousand bucks, but not this.
My research continues too.
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So, you don't like the screws and sloppy inside work, aren't you expecting a bit much, c'mon, that tub lists for $10,000 and NOW, you can get if for the amazing and awesome super duper low crazy price of just $3,800!!! :D For that savings, one could surely buy 24K gold screws and install them, no? ;D
Is this the amazing X-12? See link below. How much was your local dealer asking for this amazing 81 jet tub? $3800 here...from today's never ending Laguna Bay Craigslist postings...
http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/ppd/3451756369.html
J
PS - Worth noting, they do not put any phone number on their corporate website; that should be a HUGE red flag; and two, they have had 48 complaints in the past 3 years according to the BBB; BUT, BUT, because they pay the BBB to be listed as "accredited", they have BOUGHT an A- rating, when in reality, it would likely hover in the D range.
You have to love the BBB; many years ago they were a reliable source for some honest reporting; now, the past 5 years or so, anyone who offers horrible service or delivers a bad product can buy their letter grade - when I see any company yapping on their promo material over and over that they are "accredited" by the BBB, I immediately think, "stay clear" or "ok, what did they do?"
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thanks for all the replies. obv leaning local now. appreciate it. i'll keep you all posted.