Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: MWFriedman on September 09, 2012, 12:57:37 am
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So my family recently discovered while on vacation that putting my 7 year old son is like giving him valium. So we're considering buying a hot tub for the back yard. We have a small area of yard where we can easily lay some sort of level ground, but it's NOT big enough for a standard sized 7 x 7 hot tub. So I've been combing every store in my area (East Bay SF) for small hot tubs that have some "shallow" seating options that my 7 year old can sit it. I know what you're thinking. Kids don't sit in hot tubs, they swim. But he actually does! If it's hot enough and I guess if he is comfortably enough. He's only ever been in the round sunken classic tubs on vacation.
I thought we would get a classic round tub, but they are just too deep (other than the one cool down seat) and not really comfortable for me or my husband. So I've come up with the following three models and here's what I've seen:
1) Free Flow Passport: This is the same spa they sell at Costco as the Aqua Terra Transport. Size and shape is perfect. I've been in it dry with my 7 year old and it's such a great fit. And it's only about $3000 and comes with a 2 year warranty. BUT, I've never heard one with water and have no idea how loud it is or how energy efficient it is to run. But it's comfortable and I like the size and look and love the seating configuration.
2) Cooperage Model 104: I have seen Cooperage spas in person and heard one filled. It's quiet, and I believe it's a decent spa. Comes with a 3 year warranty. Similar in that is has the little lounger where the leg portion might also be a shallow seat. BUT nobody had one in person I can see, so I have NO IDEA how deep the other seats are. It looks like the two side seats with one jet MIGHT be more shallow, but nobody seems to be able to give me specs. I REALLY like the spa, but I've terrified to buy it sight unseen. And it's not returnable either. Boo. This one is around $5000.
3) Hot Springs SX: I saw this one today and it's a decent option. I believe that it's a good spa and is reputable. It does't have a lounger but does have one real cool down seat. The other seats seemed pretty deep, but I guess there are always booster seats he could use. But it definitely seems stripped down to me. Plastic jets, no option to upgrade. And I let me son wet test a spa there, not the SX but the Jetsetter in a different line, and while the motor was quiet, I felt like the jets were SO LOUD. Could have been the gazebo set up in the store, but the Cooperage I feel like was quieter. I saw a Sundance that was quieter too, but they had nothing small enough for what we need without going up to $6600. The SX is also around $5000, with a 2 year warranty.
So, what would you do? I'm a total first time spa owner. No idea if we'll use it every day, or barely ever. Thoughts???
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When spas are open and the pumps are on high for the jets, all are spas are reallty similar. When they are closed is where you'll see a noise difference. The Freeflow and Sx are both full foam spas which helps with noise and should be similar overall for overall noise level. They both use a 2 speed pump which will be on part of the day for filtering and heating which has some noise level if its close to the house.
If noise is really an issue then I'd highly suggest you get a spa with a 24/7 circ pump which is whisper quiet to the point you won't even know its on even if youre standing next to it (and circ pumps are a bit more energy efficient too). At that same dealer that had the SX I'd suggest you ask about the Bolt or Prodigy, 2 small to medium sized spas with circ pumps.
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Check out the Caldera Kauai http://www.calderaspas.com/Spa_Showroom_Hot_Tubs/model_hot_tub_kauai.html
Small, quiet, shallow, made by Hot Springs, but sold by their own Caldera dealers. Similar in shape/dimension to the Hot Springs Jet Setter, but with much more room inside due to the seating and intake configuration.
We've had one 6 months, and really like it.
Don't but a spa without wet testing it. We were all set to buy a different model, it felt great dry, but was awful when we wet tested it. Would have been a huge 6k mistake.
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Thanks for the tips so far. At the Hot Springs Dealer, I looked at the Bolt and it was both too deep and also too expensive. $6600 is more spa than we need. As for Caldera, there isn't a dealer close enough to me. There's on in Novato, but that would be pretty far for me to drive just to look at a Hot Tub.
Any more thoughts on comparing just these 3 Hot Tubs? Anyone have an opinion about the Cooperage 104?
Thanks.
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Nordic makes some nice round tubs. The impulse can be had for around 3500 and is a 31" deep round one that comfortably holds four. Out of the three that you picked I would go with the sx before the freeflow. Cooperage I have never heard of before.
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Thanks for the tip. We actually started our search by looking at a Nordic round tub, but found that other than the one cool down seat, they were all too deep for our little people, even with a booster seat.
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Thanks for the tips so far. At the Hot Springs Dealer, I looked at the Bolt and it was both too deep and also too expensive. $6600 is more spa than we need. As for Caldera, there isn't a dealer close enough to me. There's on in Novato, but that would be pretty far for me to drive just to look at a Hot Tub.
Any more thoughts on comparing just these 3 Hot Tubs? Anyone have an opinion about the Cooperage 104?
Thanks.
I don't know the cooperage, I just know the other two both of which are good smaller spas that are built to last and fully insualted.
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Hot Spring Ace, does that mean you'd consider the Free Flow a decent spa that will last us 5 to 10 years? I am hoping it would, but am nervous. Of all the ones I've seen, I actually like it the best, and not just for the price point. It's the best size and configuration for what we need. But I'm worried that once the 2 year warranty is up it will be broken all the time. What do you think?
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Hot Spring Ace, does that mean you'd consider the Free Flow a decent spa that will last us 5 to 10 years? I am hoping it would, but am nervous. Of all the ones I've seen, I actually like it the best, and not just for the price point. It's the best size and configuration for what we need. But I'm worried that once the 2 year warranty is up it will be broken all the time. What do you think?
A lot of cheap spas available out there don't last and/or cost an arm and a leg to operate. The nice thing with Freeflow is they are simple, they last and they're insulated. Sure they don't have the bells and whistles or a high number of jets and they aren't as pretty as some others since theyr'e a one pice shell/body. They're a good option for those looking to spend less than $5k and are looking for something that just gets the job done.
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I just also discovered the Marquis Mirage which looks too good to be true, and I'm told I can also get around $5000 with a 5 year warranty? Thoughts? They came up on another forum as another good brand. I'll have to hike to get there, but might be worth it?
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I just also discovered the Marquis Mirage which looks too good to be true, and I'm told I can also get around $5000 with a 5 year warranty? Thoughts? They came up on another forum as another good brand. I'll have to hike to get there, but might be worth it?
to good to be true will depend on how you like the spa...Marquis as a company has always been decent but make sure you like the layout/seating and schedule a wet-test if possible.
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Just so you know: the TX and SX tubs can be fitted with a 24/7 Circ pump. You can also add ozone - the exact same ozone system which is factory installed on the more expensive HotSpring tubs. That gives you silent running excect when the jets are on, and it adds one more feature I really like: the upgrade kit comes with a new section of plumbing so the water for the jets doesn't go through the heater anymore. It "cleans up" the flow to the jets, and you get noticeably more umph at the jets.
I just installed a kit on a TX (fits the SX as well) and it was great. On the TX I was working on, we put in the ozone too, and the customer basically has a Jetsetter for half price.
HTH
8)
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Just so you know: the TX and SX tubs can be fitted with a 24/7 Circ pump. You can also add ozone - the exact same ozone system which is factory installed on the more expensive HotSpring tubs. That gives you silent running excect when the jets are on, and it adds one more feature I really like: the upgrade kit comes with a new section of plumbing so the water for the jets doesn't go through the heater anymore. It "cleans up" the flow to the jets, and you get noticeably more umph at the jets.
I just installed a kit on a TX (fits the SX as well) and it was great. On the TX I was working on, we put in the ozone too, and the customer basically has a Jetsetter for half price.
HTH
8)
funny I just quoted a customer on a TX w/ ozone and Circ. pump this morning...and to OP if you add a circ. pump to either of these models you have an incredibly efficient and easy to maintain spa...obviously this is a huge draw for some of these smaller units...easy to maintain, energy consumption is very minimal, heat up time is very quick (when hooked up 220v) and replacement filters/parts etc. are all relatively cheap
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Just so you know: the TX and SX tubs can be fitted with a 24/7 Circ pump. You can also add ozone - the exact same ozone system which is factory installed on the more expensive HotSpring tubs. That gives you silent running excect when the jets are on, and it adds one more feature I really like: the upgrade kit comes with a new section of plumbing so the water for the jets doesn't go through the heater anymore. It "cleans up" the flow to the jets, and you get noticeably more umph at the jets.
I just installed a kit on a TX (fits the SX as well) and it was great. On the TX I was working on, we put in the ozone too, and the customer basically has a Jetsetter for half price.
HTH
8)
Very good point. A SX with a circ pump would make it very quiet.
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Thank you so much everyone for all the great feedback! I'm going this weekend to wet test the FreeFlow Passport, the Hot Springs SX, and now the Marquis Mirage. I am dropping the Cooperage as an option. I did find a 104 I could see in person, but he wouldn't wet test it, so I've decided it's out. Will report back next week on the purchase, but thanks to this forum, I feel like any of the 3 would be a good choice based on what "feels" right in person. All things being equal, I think I'd pick the Marquis at this point because of the warranty. Thanks for all the info!
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OK. So I've been in 3 tubs and am ruling out the Hot Spring SX. DID NOT LIKE IT. I'm so glad I wet tested them. The jets were so strong I had to turn them down and I felt like I was yelling to talk to the salesman. Totally wrong spa for us.
Now I'm really torn between a Freeflow Passport with lots of jets for about $3000 (2 year warranty) and a gently USED Marquis Mirage (from 2009) which will come with a full 5 year warranty at around $4500. It's used, but from a dealer. Honestly, I liked the jets better on the Freeflow. But the Mirage is SO much prettier to look at all around, and has some nice features like a big enough ledge to sit on if you just want your feet in, as well as the ozonator. All in all, they are VERY similar and I'm really not sure what to do. Is 3 more years of a warranty work $1500? How much do you care what the exterior looks like?
This is harder than buying a car.
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OK. So I've been in 3 tubs and am ruling out the Hot Spring SX. DID NOT LIKE IT. I'm so glad I wet tested them. The jets were so strong I had to turn them down and I felt like I was yelling to talk to the salesman. Totally wrong spa for us.
Now I'm really torn between a Freeflow Passport with lots of jets for about $3000 (2 year warranty) and a gently USED Marquis Mirage (from 2009) which will come with a full 5 year warranty at around $4500. It's used, but from a dealer. Honestly, I liked the jets better on the Freeflow. But the Mirage is SO much prettier to look at all around, and has some nice features like a big enough ledge to sit on if you just want your feet in, as well as the ozonator. All in all, they are VERY similar and I'm really not sure what to do. Is 3 more years of a warranty work $1500? How much do you care what the exterior looks like?
This is harder than buying a car.
just curious, how are you getting a 5 year warranty on a spa that is 3 years old?
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The story I've been told is that it was bought 3 years ago and sat in storage. Then they set it up, used it for a year, but had to move so they asked this same dealer they bought it from if he would buy it back. So he's considering it 1 year into the warranty, but is willing to offer it at the full 5 years. He's going to service it himself.
Suddenly I'm nervous about it. He didn't tell me on the phone that the one he had to show me was used and an older model, and now I'm suddenly bothered by it. He had said something about "giving me a good deal on the floor model" but not that it was used. And I drove about 50 minutes to see this tub for it to end up NOT being the tub I thought I was going to see. The newer model has a lot more bells and whistles (and jets). He also says the new ones cost $6600, while over the phone he said it was in the $5000 range.
It's kind of making me like the Freeflow better. I at least feel like I know what I'm getting. I'm just nervous about the only 2 year warranty, and if that means as soon as 2 years are up, the thing it breaking down all the time. I've never owned a hot tub before, so I haven't the faintest idea how much one should expect to have to "service" it.
Any ideas?
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The Marquis would probably be fine, sounds like the dealer is double talking a bit. Between the two the freeflow I believe has the same waterway jets and the same balboa equipment as the Marquis. I think it would come down to how I feel about the Marquis dealer and would want to SEE the spa I was buying not one like it. And get any warranty stuff in writing. Personally I would be leaning towards the Marquis but the freeflow is nice and well we sold quite a few, couple shell cracks here and there but function wise they held up well!
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The story I've been told is that it was bought 3 years ago and sat in storage. Then they set it up, used it for a year, but had to move so they asked this same dealer they bought it from if he would buy it back. So he's considering it 1 year into the warranty, but is willing to offer it at the full 5 years. He's going to service it himself.
Suddenly I'm nervous about it. He didn't tell me on the phone that the one he had to show me was used and an older model, and now I'm suddenly bothered by it. He had said something about "giving me a good deal on the floor model" but not that it was used. And I drove about 50 minutes to see this tub for it to end up NOT being the tub I thought I was going to see. The newer model has a lot more bells and whistles (and jets). He also says the new ones cost $6600, while over the phone he said it was in the $5000 range.
It's kind of making me like the Freeflow better. I at least feel like I know what I'm getting. I'm just nervous about the only 2 year warranty, and if that means as soon as 2 years are up, the thing it breaking down all the time. I've never owned a hot tub before, so I haven't the faintest idea how much one should expect to have to "service" it.
Any ideas?
This comes up occasionally. There is not a direct relationship between warranty length and quality. A spa with a 5 year warranty won't necessarily have fewer issues than one with a 2 year warranty and in some cases the one with 5 year warranty have more bells and whistles and more chances for things to come up. Also, warranties are not really "free" but rather they are included in the price. Top of the line models give you a 5 yr wrranty and roll the cost of it into the price. A line like Freeflow keeps the cost of the spa down paritally by only giving you a 2 year warrranty but its not like they know it will have issue at the 25th month so they only give you a 2 year warranty. If they gave you a 5 year warrranty with it they'd probably have to charge you a few hundred $ more and then you'd be thinking "I think this spa is a bit overpriced".
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We bought a cooperage 103 in June. The spa itself is great. However, we've had issues with the dealer and faulty panelling from the start, which is ongoing. If the dealer wasn't shady I'm sure it wouldn't be an issue, but so far it's been a nightmare. The manufacturer is now involved mediating the entire mess.
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OK so the closer I get to buying, the more I'm getting concerned.
So in trying to find the specs on the Marquis, it now looks like it's a 2007 model, which means it isn't a Mirage at all, but is a Limited 520M. So this spa this guy us selling me has gone from a Marquis Mirage Floor Model, so a 3 year old unit that was only use for a year, to a 5 year old 520M. The more layers I peel back, the more I'm worried I'm not getting the whole story.
That said, he's still offering me a 5 year warranty on it from his shop. Parts and Labor included. So should any of this matter?
Also, now I feel like the price should come down. We were agreed at $4500 including tax, delivery, step, cover, and I got him to throw in a cover lifter too. But my research on various forums shows that this spa was under $6, and I think closer to $5 when new. So should I be paying this much for it 5 years old, regardless of how used it actually is. Or does the fact that he's giving me the warranty mean that's what I'm paying for and it doesn't matter?
And then I realize if I haggle with him too much over the price, what kind of service am I going to get when I DO need to use that warranty? Will he ignore my calls for a week? Will it take me forever to get it serviced?? It's not like negotiating a car price where once the negotiating is done, the relationship ends?
I really don't want to get taken advantage of. I still like the spa, but I want to pay for it what it's worth and I want to get good service. I am considering switching over to the Freeflow again just because this dealer is starting to make me worry, and at this point, I trust the other guy more, even if I have less confidence in the quality of the product.
Thoughts?
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A 5 year old floor model? That whole thing would make me uneasy. Also, the warranty is from him, not the manufacturer, I'd be hesitant to consider that equal. If a spa has a major issue the good manufactures take care of their customers because its a single spa out of thousands they sell. If the dealer has to cover that himself its more of an issue plus do you really know he is covering everything to the same degree?
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A 5 year old floor model? That whole thing would make me uneasy. Also, the warranty is from him, not the manufacturer, I'd be hesitant to consider that equal. If a spa has a major issue the good manufactures take care of their customers because its a single spa out of thousands they sell. If the dealer has to cover that himself its more of an issue plus do you really know he is covering everything to the same degree?
You hit the nail on the head with this post. What happens if the dealer goes out of business? Doesn't sound like he sells many tubs and the warranty is between you and the dealer so you would be screwed. Plus the fact that his story is changing so often would make me very uneasy. Offer him$3000 it's probably worth that