Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: jamesfarrell on January 30, 2012, 12:19:21 pm
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A week ago, I knew nothing about hot tubs. I have read some of the "what is the best" and there doesn't seem to be a lot of info online about reviews. Just links the make you go all over the place. Before I spend almost 10k on a hot tub, what do you think ? I was looking at Hot Springs but the woman at the store pointed us to a limelight Flair. This is a different company than Hot Springs, so I'm wondering if anybody has any experience with the Limelight brand.
Thanks in advance.
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Limelight and Hot Springs are 2 brands made by the same company just like Lexus and Toyota or Cadillac and Chevy so it’s not really a "different company" as you stated (or were told).
As far as the quote, its actually pretty straight forward for someone in the business so let’s break down a few things (I’ll jump around a bit).
-A cover and chem kit come with every spa, no matter the brand so they are a given. They're throwing in a mineral cartridge, fine but no big deal.
-Delivery is typically included with every dealer and crane service is always extra so that is all in line.
-Hot Springs and Limelights come with the subpanel so that saves you some money (if you get an electrical quote from someone make sure you tell them you have it so they don't add that to the quote).
-I like ozone but I'd only get it IF its a CD ozone (not UV, ask) and IF they throw in the labor on that. If installed at a later time I understand that charge but its an easy install they can do while there at delivery. They should have no problem waving most/all of that installation fee and if not I'd simply tell them to take it out and discount the 399+115=$514 (and by saying that I'm sure they'll wave part/all of that labor fee). This is an option and for $514 I'd opt out.
-A cover lifter is a must IMO and without knowing what type I can't comment on price. That’s not a cheap price but it might be one of their better lifters too.
-Steps are a must, I'm not sure what kind but probably pretty basic for $100 which is fine.
-$1200 for Ace sounds like what others pay but this is an option and you should think of it that way. Some really like it, others like myself are satisfied with just using a simple chlorine routine which is easy to learn. It’s up to you on this feature though you might be able to bargain some. Think of this as a separate item and not part of the spa price and bargain separately for it and you might get a better price. It NEVER hurts to bargain on the true add on features like this, all they can say is "no, that’s our best price" but you can also say “then I’ll skip it at that price” though they then might counter with you opting out.
If you separate the ACE and Ozone (+ its labor), that’s about $7300 before taxes which sounds pretty good.
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Thanks, I'm a noob, not sure what Ozone is, but I know what ace is. I'm assuming ozone is the technology that puts bubbles into the water to help oxygenate the water to kill stuff? Maybe I'm incorrect.
Kevin
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good tub + saltwater for a good price...I say go for it :)
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Yeah, that price seems very good, even without ACE. A lot of dealers just like listing everything out so you do truly know what you are getting. I do agree with spatech, make sure you are getting a good CD (Corona Discharge) Ozone, as opposed to a UV Ozone. UV's come at the cost of replacing a bulb every year which becomes expensive. A good CD Ozone should last you 5 years before you need to replace it.
Ozone is a powerful natural oxidizer that should reduce the need to constantly add bottled products. It makes taking care of your spa much easier. It also destroys odor, which is a handy little positive.
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That seems kind of high priced to me, at least in my area it would be. I would think you could get a Hot Spring closer to that price, vs the Limelight. I dont sell Watkins products so I wouldn't know that for sure, but it sounds to me like that dealer could reduce that price some imo, at least from what I have experienced in my area.
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The problem is that in my area, 1 chain of stores has monopolized the Hot Springs Brand
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Is there any other dealers at all in or near your area to compare to just to make sure you are getting a fair deal. Even if you want to buy the Limelight, this may help give you some negotiating room when you go back to the Limelight dealer.
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The problem is that in my area, 1 chain of stores has monopolized the Hot Springs Brand
Twin sells them and says thats a good price but Waterboy sells against them and thinks you can maybe do better. What can you conclude from that? I'm not sure but why not try going to the hot springs website and use their dealer locator to see where the next closest dealer is. Chances are there is another in driving distance. Even if its too far to order from stop by and see what their price is just for peace of mind. Also, if you decide to buy you can always try to counter. Worse case they hold firm and you pay that price but know that you tried (and them holding firm will give you the feeling that you erally got their best price); best case is they come back with a better price. Don’t be hesitant to counter offer, they’re used to it.
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I've already done that, the only places that deal with hot springs are chains in my area. Meaning 1 store, numerous locations. This store is relatively close by. So I'm also assuming that delivery would be more, the further away that I go.
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The problem is that in my area, 1 chain of stores has monopolized the Hot Springs Brand
Twin sells them and says thats a good price but Waterboy sells against them and thinks you can maybe do better. What can you conclude from that? I'm not sure but why not try going to the hot springs website and use their dealer locator to see where the next closest dealer is. Chances are there is another in driving distance. Even if its too far to order from stop by and see what their price is just for peace of mind. Also, if you decide to buy you can always try to counter. Worse case they hold firm and you pay that price but know that you tried (and them holding firm will give you the feeling that you erally got their best price); best case is they come back with a better price. Don’t be hesitant to counter offer, they’re used to it.
Just because I sell against them doesn't mean I don't know what they sell for here in my area. And I also know that pricing can really vary depending upon location. I was just trying to help the OP get a better deal is all. You gave him some good pointers too by trying to counter offer. I still, imo, feel that he would be overpaying for a limelight. He could get a really nice HS for that price imo.
To the OP, the only dealer in town is a Hot Spring dealer? There is no other dealer within 30 minutes to compare pricing and quality of spa? I don't ask that to say you shouldn't but the Limelight or a HS becuase they make good spas for sure. I just think that if you were able to shop and compare some, that could only help you get a better price in the long run.
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I'll stand by my statement in that its a good price for the tub + saltwater system + everything else that is included. Pricing varies throughout the country, its a fact and their isn't much any of us can do about it besides complain. Its not like your buying an LCD TV where you can shop 15 different locations with a few clicks of the mouse. Also as a consumer it is absolutely your right to negotiate for the best price available, heck for me personally I think the last car salesman I dealt with wanted to personally strangle me because I milked every cent I could.
and to Water Boy all I have to say is C'mon man, I don't know your background or experience in this industry but you know as well as I that your statement above is ridiculous...why don't you post your current prices for your Artic line and we'll make a few calls and I guarantee I can find someone "who's a little cheaper" as well within your state. I assume you've been selling long enough to know that certain dealers have different margins...some companies have the ability to sell a little cheaper because spas may be a slight "back burner" item...the majority of their income might come from pool installation, fireplaces, pool tables and game room furniture, etc etc. so in theory that statement could be made about almost every single spa dealer in the country including your own...
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double post
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I'll stand by my statement in that its a good price for the tub + saltwater system + everything else that is included. Pricing varies throughout the country, its a fact and their isn't much any of us can do about it besides complain. Its not like your buying an LCD TV where you can shop 15 different locations with a few clicks of the mouse. Also as a consumer it is absolutely your right to negotiate for the best price available, heck for me personally I think the last car salesman I dealt with wanted to personally strangle me because I milked every cent I could.
and to Water Boy all I have to say is C'mon man, I don't know your background or experience in this industry but you know as well as I that your statement above is ridiculous...why don't you post your current prices for your Artic line and we'll make a few calls and I guarantee I can find someone "who's a little cheaper" as well within your state. I assume you've been selling long enough to know that certain dealers have different margins...some companies have the ability to sell a little cheaper because spas may be a slight "back burner" item...the majority of their income might come from pool installation, fireplaces, pool tables and game room furniture, etc etc. so in theory that statement could be made about almost every single spa dealer in the country including your own...
Okay, the OP asked what people thought about his quote, and I voiced my opinion on that which is exactly what he wanted in his post. And I will stand by my post that he is being overcharged for that spa imo. What is "ridiculous" about that? But just because my signature says the brand of spas that I sell, it wipes out my opinion as negative and wrong. I feel that I did exactly what the OP asked, and told him what I thought of his quote. Maybe he is getting a great deal, but maybe he isnt. All I was trying to do was help him get a better deal, nothing less nothing more. But just because I have seen different quotes than you quote or what you have, my opinion is "ridiculous". I say C'mon man right back at ya Twin!!
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I tend to think the quote is a bit high myself. But I've looked at the Jacuzzi Hot Tubs, the dealer emailed me. Their shop looks like it's going to fall apart and I'm not impressed by the presentation at all. I looked at the product too, Jacuzzi and I'm not impressed. The website is terrible. I am impressed by the Hot Springs product. Also, the woman I'm dealing with, Denise stated that the Hot Springs do have a CD ozone.
I like the woman, she knows her stuff and her presentation is good. The other place I'm looking at is seasonal specialty stores. I've been in there. Seems like the Home Depot of outdoor stuff. I'd rather a small place like I'm dealing with. I can call up, instantly speak to someone that knows what their talking about. She came out to my house and advised on location as well, which I thought was cool.
But I mean if I'm getting charged an extra 2k or something I'd definitely look elsewhere.
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back on track and to OP, just do your due diligence and shop around and negotiate to the best of your ability. Wet tests are something I always recommend as well, especially when comparing models. If you spend 8,000 vs 9,000 but are not 100% comfortable in the $8,000 spa then in the end you are no better off even though you saved $1,000. Of course for us "average folks" price is a huge factor but you also need to buy based on comfort, warranty, efficiency, and overall "quality" of the dealer who will be your go to guy in case of an issue down the road. good luck and let us know if you have any other questions
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I'll stand by my statement in that its a good price for the tub + saltwater system + everything else that is included. Pricing varies throughout the country, its a fact and their isn't much any of us can do about it besides complain. Its not like your buying an LCD TV where you can shop 15 different locations with a few clicks of the mouse. Also as a consumer it is absolutely your right to negotiate for the best price available, heck for me personally I think the last car salesman I dealt with wanted to personally strangle me because I milked every cent I could.
and to Water Boy all I have to say is C'mon man, I don't know your background or experience in this industry but you know as well as I that your statement above is ridiculous...why don't you post your current prices for your Artic line and we'll make a few calls and I guarantee I can find someone "who's a little cheaper" as well within your state. I assume you've been selling long enough to know that certain dealers have different margins...some companies have the ability to sell a little cheaper because spas may be a slight "back burner" item...the majority of their income might come from pool installation, fireplaces, pool tables and game room furniture, etc etc. so in theory that statement could be made about almost every single spa dealer in the country including your own...
Okay, the OP asked what people thought about his quote, and I voiced my opinion on that which is exactly what he wanted in his post. And I will stand by my post that he is being overcharged for that spa imo. What is "ridiculous" about that? But just because my signature says the brand of spas that I sell, it wipes out my opinion as negative and wrong. I feel that I did exactly what the OP asked, and told him what I thought of his quote. Maybe he is getting a great deal, but maybe he isnt. All I was trying to do was help him get a better deal, nothing less nothing more. But just because I have seen different quotes than you quote or what you have, my opinion is "ridiculous". I say C'mon man right back at ya Twin!!
I wasn't going to weigh in on these latest posts but what the heck. I actually didn't see anything wrong with your previous posts as I'm sure you know what that spa sells for in your area since they're a competitor of yours and you didn't come right out and say something like "no, try another brand" or anything so that was all fine IMO.
But in this last post, IMO you really shouldn't say "he is being overcharged for that spa imo" because you don't know how good that pricing is for his area. You know what it sells for in your area in Kansas (?)but unless you know what it sells for typically in his area its a bit much to state he's being "overcharged", especially when another dealer who sells it says the price is in line (or something to that effect).
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Take the ACE system out, and your in the mid-high 7's. Which, for a Flair is a great price. ACE is expensive, which may be throwing some of you off who think he is getting overcharged. The rest of the spa is loaded, with the uprite cover lifter, cd ozone, steps, delivery, etc. The Flair's warranty is also almost exactly in line with the Hot Spring line. IMO, that is an incredibly fair, perhaps even great price, depending on the level of service accompanied by the dealer.
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I tend to think the quote is a bit high myself. But I've looked at the Jacuzzi Hot Tubs, the dealer emailed me. Their shop looks like it's going to fall apart and I'm not impressed by the presentation at all. I looked at the product too, Jacuzzi and I'm not impressed. The website is terrible. I am impressed by the Hot Springs product. Also, the woman I'm dealing with, Denise stated that the Hot Springs do have a CD ozone.
I like the woman, she knows her stuff and her presentation is good. The other place I'm looking at is seasonal specialty stores. I've been in there. Seems like the Home Depot of outdoor stuff. I'd rather a small place like I'm dealing with. I can call up, instantly speak to someone that knows what their talking about. She came out to my house and advised on location as well, which I thought was cool.
But I mean if I'm getting charged an extra 2k or something I'd definitely look elsewhere.
Quite frankly I'm not sure how you or any typical shopper would know if you're being quoted high, just right or getting a great bargain. I know I wouldn't necessarily know without having specific info or spending time on sites like this. Hopefully you'll get others to reply to this thread with info but there is also another spa site "poolspaforum.com" where you might also post this same question and maybe find owners who've bought this brand or other dealers with information for what they sell it for or what others sell it for in their area.
Also, if you think the price is still too high (or even if you think its fine) COUNTER OFFER if this is what you plan to buy. I've spent some time selling spas, in general dealers have 1-the price they'd like to get if they could, 2-the sale price they'll give as the customer shops them and they feel they need to entice them to buy (typically what they give people who are leaving with a quote to think about it) and 3-the price they'll go down further if the customer comes back and pushes for an even better price.
By all means, do as I suggested earlier and bargain for ozone and Ace options separately. Your base price seems fine, its the $514 for the ozone that is too high IMO and the ACE is kind of a separate thing as its a creature comfort that you have to decide on but on that I'd also separate it and see what they'll sell it for if you look like you're willing to go without it.
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i'll add my 2 cents. the uprite lifter is a hot spring brand, not a cheap throw in. it's designed for applications with little clearance behind the tub. if you have 24" choose the cover cradle II instead. they should offer it for the same price.
when ace debuted there was some debate about using cd ozone along with it. anyone weigh in on hot spring's current stance on their use together. how do ace experts feel it would perform without an ozone added?
the only thing that really stood out to me there was the crane fee. thats almost 5 times what our customers would pay to put a spa over a 2 story house. crane costs in every area are different, but it wouldn't hurt to call around to other crane companies if one is required.
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I think that is a pretty good price even for what i see. Selling against them. You have looked at Limelight and Jacuzzi and have seen two different dealers on the spectrum. But do you have any other upper end brands you can check out the comparables with like D1, Sundance, Marquis, ..and this will give some more different ideas? Also on the lifters doesn't the Hot Springs lifters mount thru the cover, so when you have to replace you need to get the replacement from them,
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I think that is a pretty good price even for what i see. Selling against them. You have looked at Limelight and Jacuzzi and have seen two different dealers on the spectrum. But do you have any other upper end brands you can check out the comparables with like D1, Sundance, Marquis, ..and this will give some more different ideas? Also on the lifters doesn't the Hot Springs lifters mount thru the cover, so when you have to replace you need to get the replacement from them,
good question on the lifter. i think some major cover companies are offering cradle ready covers. oem is still better, but i'd want to make sure they don't intend to charge the fake price they listed in the quote.
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You are right I shouldn't have said he was getting overcharged. I misspoke on that. But I did say he may or may not be getting a good deal. My main point all along is that that is more than what they do sell for here in KS. It sounds like the OP is comfortable with the dealer so use the tips said above to get the best deal. Good luck.
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Thanks for the info folks. I guess the ACE salt system is 1200 and something that is $700 needs to be replaced every 3 years I think she said. But this negates the need to have endless chemicals I guess, which cost $400 a year. So the price is a tad higher, being you have to replace some part of the ACE every 3 years which costs $700 but don't have to use as many chemicals.
She also said there is a 3 month thing that locks the PH. I got a lot to learn on that. Cough Cough.... my wife has a lot to learn. I told her, I'll dig the holes, the footings, build the deck and buy the tub, your dammit your doing the water. Sounds like a deal eh?
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Thanks for the info folks. I guess the ACE salt system is 1200 and something that is $700 needs to be replaced every 3 years I think she said. But this negates the need to have endless chemicals I guess, which cost $400 a year. So the price is a tad higher, being you have to replace some part of the ACE every 3 years which costs $700 but don't have to use as many chemicals.
She also said there is a 3 month thing that locks the PH. I got a lot to learn on that. Cough Cough.... my wife has a lot to learn. I told her, I'll dig the holes, the footings, build the deck and buy the tub, your dammit your doing the water. Sounds like a deal eh?
You have to clean the cell every 3 months in order for it to be most effective. The way you clean it is with pH down. Just to be 100% clear, you still need to check on the pH, Alkalinity, and hardness, at least once every 30 days. The $700 replacement is the cell itself, which has a definitive life of 3 years.
With normal care of a dichlor + nature 2, I'd say it would probably be more around $200 per year with average use (3-4 times per week.) New filters not included as you'd have to get those anyway with the system.
Of course with any questions please let us know here or your dealer!
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What is the cell? Are you referring to the 5 filters that I was told can go in the dishwasher?
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No he is referring to the Ace salt cell. The filters are separate of the cell. The Ace cell is what produces the Chlorine in the spa. If you really like the Limelight, leaving the Ace off is a great way to save a lot of money right up front. You can buy a lot of Chlorine for $1200 imo.
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What is the cell? Are you referring to the 5 filters that I was told can go in the dishwasher?
The Limelight models only have one 65 sqft filter. Those I do not recommend putting in the dishwasher. The Hot Spring models Aria and up with have the 5 filters you are thinking about. The cell is like what Water Boy said. It is an electrode encased in a plastic housing that interacts with the water to produce the chlorine & oxidizers.
Mr. Scott Iverson from Hot Spring explains it all here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Vh4kOjDmPQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Vh4kOjDmPQ)
If you want to see the what he says specifically about the cell, he talks about it and shows it on camera at the 48 second mark, as we as the 3:35 minute mark.
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Well I got the hot tub. The hot springs flair. I was a bit weary about spending this amount of money on a hot tub, but I'm glad I went with the Hot Springs brand. Wife and I are totally happy. We are also very happy with the service provided by Denise @ New England Spas.
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I tend to think the quote is a bit high myself. But I've looked at the Jacuzzi Hot Tubs, the dealer emailed me. Their shop looks like it's going to fall apart and I'm not impressed by the presentation at all. I looked at the product too, Jacuzzi and I'm not impressed. The website is terrible. I am impressed by the Hot Springs product. Also, the woman I'm dealing with, Denise stated that the Hot Springs do have a CD ozone.
I like the woman, she knows her stuff and her presentation is good. The other place I'm looking at is seasonal specialty stores. I've been in there. Seems like the Home Depot of outdoor stuff. I'd rather a small place like I'm dealing with. I can call up, instantly speak to someone that knows what their talking about. She came out to my house and advised on location as well, which I thought was cool.
But I mean if I'm getting charged an extra 2k or something I'd definitely look elsewhere.
too many windows open, wrong thread...please delete
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Well I got the hot tub. The hot springs flair. I was a bit weary about spending this amount of money on a hot tub, but I'm glad I went with the Hot Springs brand. Wife and I are totally happy. We are also very happy with the service provided by Denise @ New England Spas.
congrats