Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: dorsey on May 15, 2004, 10:27:48 am
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I live in the Baltimore area and am looking to purchase my first hot tub. I have narrowed my selection to Hotspring (Grandee or Vanguard) or Sundance (Optima). I want to spend no more than $7-8K for everything that I need and I assume I can negotiate the list prices for each. The local dealer is listing the Optima for $8,500 (including delivery, setup and chemicals), while the Grandee is $9,500 (including delivery, setup, chemicals and stairs). My wife and I (three children) have decided against a lounger. I am willing to pay for quality, but do not want to pay more than necessary.
Any suggestions/comments?
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I am looking at the Optima as well. I have been quoted 7500 (which includes 300 sales tax) for led light upgrade, cover, lifter, start-up chemicals. I personally think that is still a little high. (60 to 75% markup on msrp) I am trying for 6500.
I have looked at the hotsprings. The only problem is paying for the name! I do not think that are any better or worse then Sundance. Also, I am not too excited for paying for features like waterfalls on the Hot Springs.
Although, the Optima has Aromatherapy which I think is just marketing. I had it on during a wet test for 30 minutes and reallly couldnt notice it thats with new beads out of the box.
My point is that both companies make a great product. I am trying my best to widdle down the markups and I guess I will have to live with the unneeded options.
Take your time and negotiate over a period of time to make sure you get the best deal. No matter what people say, buying a spa is just like buying a new car!
Anyway, hope that helps.
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Pardon me while I snap.
Being a spa salesman and knowing what wholesale cost is on both the grandee and the optima, those are actually good prices to help your local retailer stay in buisness. $6500 for an Optima with all the stuff they have added, and cost of overhead, the dealer would lose money. But who cares, as long as you get a great deal. If he doesn't sale it to you at your price you'll buy a spa elsewhere, because afterall a hot tub is just a hot tub, right?!?
It's a wonder why I see posts talking about a local retailer going out of business, they must have just been bad business owners right? Pool and spa store employees aren't trained professionals, are they?
Sorry to go off on a rant but seriously, do hot tub shoppers believe we just pull our margins to stay in business out of thin air? If I have offended anyone, I'm sorry, but hot tubs cost a little more from the factory than you think.
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I also live in the Baltimore area and was looking at the Optima from Hohnes and the Grandee from Regina I went with the 2003 grandee model for something like $7900. I didn't think the 2004 Grandee was so expensive, though. Haggle a bit.
Here are my thoughts:
Optima
1) Much "stronger" jets. When on full power they actually moved my (a little) and my wife (_alot_).
2) Footwell dome was nice, especially for keeping you in your seat.
3) We really liked the handles for getting in/out.
4) Bucket seating.
5) Meant to run at 60 amps, if installed with 50 amps can't run heater and both jet pumps.
6) GFCI breaker box not included in price/installation.
Grandee
1) Jets seemed "just right" for us. A few really got my blood flowing. Wife liked that they were not as hard.
2) Open seating (a big plus for us).
3) Moto-massage really grew on us, but it needs 70% or more diverter power to move up and down.
4) Can't run all jets at full power (see #3).
5) No handles inside tub.
6) A little bigger than the optima (8.5x7.7 instead of 7.7x7.7)
There's another thread on here called "Monopoly" were I experienced some frustration over Hohne's pricing which I think is about $400 or $600 more than it should be. The Grandee for us was almost $800 cheaper than an optima, so I'm not sure about the reply saying that you pay more for hot springs.
The Sundance dealer, to us, really went negative about the Hot Springs tubs saying their jets are underpowered and their jet placement is ineffective and inaccurate. We have found both things to be untrue based on wet testing. They are *both* good tubs.
The Grandee, for sure, has less powerful pumps, which is one of the reasons it runs at 50 amp (I think, but I'm not an electrician). But we found the water massage on the grandee to be just as desirable to us (different, for sure, but just as desirable). To us the massage was less violent.
Without question you need to move back and forth in *either* tub to get a full massage. The moving moto-massage helped keep down itching. We found it a little harder to shift comfortably in the bucket seats of the optima as itchy spots developed on our backs.
Recommendation?
Wet test and go with whatever makes you happy. Don't listen to sales gimmicks, as both are great tubs. If you like both equally, go with the one that is cheapest and/or the dealer that makes you the most comfortable.
When you wet test, stay in the tub for a while. We sat in there for anywhere from 10-20 minutes to get a good feel for all the jets on our backs.
The nice thing is, between these two tubs, you can't make a bad choice.
-Ed
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Iowaspaman,
I agree with you 100%. I myself work in the pool & spa biz, and if customers knew what we actually pay for the tubs, marketing, sales and staff training, eletrical..etc......they'd se that the prices we sell at are fair. I also understand that there are many people on this board who are trying and/or are thinking about getting into the biz. It's takes MANY years for a new dealer to establish themselves in a market, so be patient. BTW you aren't just paying for the "name" when you buy a Hot Spring Spa, or a Sundance Spa, or a Dimension One spa for that matter. You are paying for a spa that is built using the stringest of manufacturing standards that insure a consistently great product. You also paying for the inovations that these pioneering companies Develop, test, Patent & incorporate into their spas. Anyways that's my 2 cents.
Jason
Store manager for a Dimension One & Caldera Spas Dealer
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Neddaspa
..you said.."Buying a spa is just like buying a new car”. Just how is that? It is actually nothing like buying a new car...first off Unlike buying a car....THERE in NO FEDERAL LAW that assures all dealers PAY the same for the SPA....There is NO Law the says for example that you have to sell spas and that their combined energy consummation has to average so much the same way auto manufactures must meet fuel standards..UNILIKE buying a car the freight cost for shipping varies on how where and how many spas you are shipping at one time…..Cars/Truck pay the same destination fee..(Shipping/freight)…no matter where they are in the country..Again it is FEDERAL law. There are no published invoice prices for spas....again What makes you think buying a spa is anything like buying a car..Also as you heard from many others on a another board the deal that you SEEM to think is fair in your own self serving mind was for the dealer to make was $500.00 on the other board...that 500.00 is supposed to cover the cost of rent.... insurance.... staff...service.... and oh yeah profit after paying those things... it is not REALISTC.. By your own numbers you want to allow a dealer to make a GROSS profit of 8% most any business would go bankrupt rather quickly operating on that (low turn over businesses) what you just don't seem to get is that.... that nobody (a dealer) has any interest or desire of doing business with you at the price... that YOU and YOU ALONE think it is fair...your arrogance I find appalling.... as you seem to feel you have the right to tell another how much money they can earn... Earlier in other messages here you asked about why someone felt the need to tip the delivery person in a very condescending manner.... author=needaspa "You gave the man a $20 tip Did you feel the delivery cost was too low? Or did you feel that the dealer didn't overcharge you enough on the spa?…You also spoke about someone doing the hard labor and you said…
"Now I agree with you Florida! I would rather pay someone to throw out his or her back mixing concrete and pouring a slab! All though, I would price shop for the lowest bid and heck I might even have companies bid against each other... you than went on to say
"Bottom line here - I cherish my health and my money. It's what your time and health is worth"
Needspa...You seem to want an awful lot...but you just do not want to pay a fair price for it...I think the bottom line is you cherish everything about yourself and without any regard to anyone else.
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Mendocino - The comparison to car buying I made was to mention the fact that price is negotiable. Unless one has an unlimited budget and can throw money around, one should always negotiate on the spa price.
I am pretty sure I can get at or near 6500 for the above mentioned spa. I am talking to several stores. The highest I have seen is 10000. Now, the best price I have in hand is 7500. From the highest to the lowest, the diff is 2500 (10000 - 7500). And at 7500, the store is still making a generous profit. I know there is still fat to trim. BY shopping around around just a little, I have managed to save 2500!
Another point I forgot to mention in the above: To me, price should be considered priority #1 and above dealer reputation, service, etc. The spa you buy is covered under a manufacturer's warranty not store warranty. Do not deel pressured to buy from a store that has been in business for years and seems to be the nicest, politest, etc. The manufacturer must stand up and fix any problems you have. You are not tied to the store where you bought it. There are numerous Sundance/Hot Springs/etc stores, you should have no problem getting service should you need.
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Iowaspaman,
I agree with you 100%. I myself work in the pool & spa biz, and if customers knew what we actually pay for the tubs, marketing, sales and staff training, eletrical..etc......they'd se that the prices we sell at are fair.
Then don't put completly insane unjustifyable BS retail prices on spas and then claim its on sale everday. Maybe a few customers think you are great when you sell a spa for $7000 when you had a $10000 price tag on it in the store (a price you woudn't even think of saying pubicly outide the showroom.)
I do think Iowaspaman was a little out of line jumping on this one poster because he has a figure in mind he is working with. No force on earth is going to get his dealer to sell at a loss, and given your industries practices of inflating and hiding prices, that poster probably doesn't know if that is an unreasonable price, but he is going on what he thinks is best. I sure don't consider it good practice whining about those dumb customers.
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Pardon me while I snap.
Perhaps its time for a career change? If $6500 is unreasonable for that model then he just won't get that deal. And if that model is really what he wants he won't get it from another dealer. The poster isn't putting a gun to the dealer's head.
From what I have seen there is a lot of simiarities between the auto industry and the spa industry, at least in the sales category. However, if the auto industry would put a $30k price on a Tercel and then made the customer feel good getting out the door spending only $17k congress would be launching an investigation.
That might be why the public has embraced Saturn and their no haggle priceing.
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From what I have seen there is a lot of simiarities between the auto industry and the auto industry
Hey Bill,
Been using Spawoman's hair dye? ;) :o
Just teasing!!! LOL!!!
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Needspa...You seem to want an awful lot...but you just do not want to pay a fair price for it...I think the bottom line is you cherish everything about yourself and without any regard to anyone else.
while maybe I can understand Iowaspamans frustation, your way out of line. you can tell all that from needespas post? All he said was he was trying for a price of $6500. I have to guess from your post, you are a dealer. Can you please tell me the name and location of your dealership? To attack a potential customer suggest to me your a dealer to avoid.
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Hey Bill,
Been using Spawoman's hair dye? ;) :o
Just teasing!!! LOL!!!
Oooops, thanks.
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Bill...I am actually not a dealer...at this time.... and if you read all that I wrote I was not attacking someone for this one post.... after reading several of his posts I do feel that all he does care about getting is what’s best for him without out regard to others...I know you are a owner with a lot of knowledge...and you do try and help those who seek advice...What you said about Saturn is true but also odd...because of marketing people feel great about the no hassle way of shopping and the deal they get is....To pay FULL RETAIL for their car.....All Saturn did was market...MSRP ...as the price...and their dealers must sell it for that price....It is the very same thing that MSRP was supposed to do for other car makers....My point to Needaspa is that you said you feel that 500.00 was a fair profit for a dealer to make and many who do sell the spa you want....have said that 7500.00 is very fair and appears to be better than what most other shoppers paid...When I started shopping I was going to get a Caldera and after reading what others were paying....I knew the price I had been given was far better than any I saw posted but it would be unfair both other shoppers and other dealers to post the price I was given because I was fortunate to be in the right place at the right time....but it was not the common value of that spa.....All I am saying to be fair with those you deal with.....Shopping for a fair and good price is smart.....but trying to dictate what you feel someone should make is not.....I mean the cost of doing business varies from state to state.....rent...insurance cost.....shipping.....they are not the same everywhere....good luck in finding what you want.....
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well, it does matter who you buy your spa from, b/c believe it or not that compnay is responsible for ALL service on that product.................yes it is a "manufactuer's warranty...............but Watkins and Jacuzzi are NOT going to send a spa tech cross country from CA to work on your Spa. All dealers siogn service agreements to service all spas that they sell from that particular manufacturer. And in many cases if you go to a third party for your service work all of your warranties will be null and void. If you want to spend 6500$ on a spa, get a sweetwater, b/c they are more w/in your range of prices. And those MSRP's on the spas are from the manufacturers, NOT the dealers. And as far as posting our prices......we aren't legally allowed to do that , the manufactuers regulate this.
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I'm jumping here (may be a bad move but what the he11)
I get a real kick out of watching people negotiate pricing and then assuming they are negotiating geniuses. needaspa might feel great at negotiating his potential spa down to $6500.00 but if the dealer left enough "wiggle room" to go down to $6000.00, then in all reality, he's a poor shopper. As a side note, I'm going to guess that needaspa is not a business person. I don't say that negatively, but rather as an observation.
Now, I have a spa that I need $8000.00 to make the margins I need in my area with my overhead and business costs to stay in business. If I start out at $10,500 and get worked down to $9,200.00, who wins? This business of inflating suggested retails just to show fake value really pisses me off. Yet, Joe consumer falls for it every time. They go home telling there buddies how he really beat up the salesman and got a GREAT DEAL. Meanwhile, the salesman (and more importantly the owner) are counting their money and laughing at this twit who thinks he's so smart.
Now, take that same circumstance and this time it's a friend of the guy who just bought and got the spa for $9,200.00. This guy is a real pit bull and works the salesman down to $9000.00 even. Now how does this first shmuck feel?
My point here is that I really hate reading these posts on pricing. There are way too many factors to determine a good price. Someone buys a Jacuzzi (just an example) in Alabama for $7000.00 and the next person says that $7800.00 is way too much 3000 miles away. Come on....
Until you know what that given dealer needs to make to stay in business in their given area, how does Joe Blow have any concept what so ever to determine price.
This isn't the jewelry business where there's 100% mark-up though some consumers feel different. The real difference with cars is that there's more than 1 Ford dealership in most cities and we can compare pricing with apples to apples. With hot tubs, you have to do your best. Here's how I shop for big ticket items.
If I'm seriously considering the purchase on a given product, I will research it based on quality and who I want to give my hard earned money to. I want someone who knows what they're talking about and I will ask what their best price is. I only want 1 price and I won't counter offer. I will make this clear to them. If it's what I feel is acceptable, I'll buy it. Otherwise, I'll walk out and continue on. If this guy comes back with a better price or calls a day later, then I know he was trying to rip me off initially and didn't give me his best price like I asked. So many people buy this way and really don't consider the fact that the company was quoting you higher to make better margins. Do you really want to deal with someone like this? Not me thanks.
Every Beachcomber customer in our city pays the exact same price. We make what we need to and I could care less how good your negotiating skills are. Wave thousand dollar bills in my face... You're paying the same as the guy before you and the next one after. If ya don't like it, I tried my best and I have little respect for people who shop strictly by price anyway.
There's other ways of showing value and playing with consumers minds isn't one of them. It's an insult and I amazed people still shop that way at all.
In closing, the next time you get a price that shows huge savings from the suggested retail, ask to see a deal where the spa was actually sold at that suggested retail price. I bet they can't do it. It's perceived value people and someone's trying to scam you.
Steve
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well said steve. I agree 100%, that's why where I work the owner sets the prices right where we need them with no wiggle room......except for just enough for us to work a lifter and a set of steps into the deal and that's it. All of our customers pay the same price, even at the shows and fairs we do.
Jason,
Store manager for a D-1 and caldera Dealer
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Thank You Steve and Poolboy, to quote from the movie Jerry maguire, 'You complete me."
All I was trying to get across is that with this forum many consumers can see what other consumers have been quoted for the same product, unfortunately, dealers may not pay the same for the product, also friegt costs are different also. In 20 years I have worked at 4 dealerships in 3 states. My highest lease was $27 per sq ft in a large metro area. my lowest was $7.85, that's a cost difference of around $6383 a month on a 4000sq ft store. advertising costs in the larger area was 3 times higher. Freight to the east coast was twice that of in the midwest.
I have priced spas with alot of 'wiggle' room and I have done it with less. Needaspa said price was his #1 concern over dealer reputation. That's his right. Go get the best deal you can, and when you pass up the local dealer and buy from a dealer 2 hours away to say $300, and when you call the local dealer for warranty see how he reacts. But promise me you won't get upset at him if he tells you to call the dealership you purchased it from. It is not like an automobile where you can drive it into the shop.Bring the spa to him and I'm sure he'll fix it under warranty.
Spa shoppers. In the end you must be comfortable with the dealership. I am not out to price gouge anyone, nor to I inflate my MSRP to give you a false sense of getting over on me. I sell a quality product, that costs more than you think. I sell it at a margin that I can stay in business, educate my staff,stock the parts you need, when you need them and take care of you after the sale like you expect.
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Great posts from all the dealers. I know for me, the dealer was a very important part of the decision process. With this type of purchase, where future service and advise may be needed, I wanted an established dealer who I felt would be there for the long run and who considers me important as a customer. Thats what works for me.
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Thank you IOWASPAMAN. Well said, If customers only knew the half of it. Great post. What brand(s) do you curently sell and what brands have you sold in the past?? Which one do you feel is the best out there?
Jason,
Store manager for a D-1 and caldera Spas Dealer
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The warranty is a manufacturer's warranty and not store. Any sundance store must provide the service whether you bought it from him or not! Its part of being a dealer. Its just a presure gimmick to get people to buy from the store closest to them. All expenses are reimbursed to the store via the manufacturer. As a result, any store can do the work. A remedy to get help from a stuborn store is to call your attorney!
This is one point of buying a spa that really upsets me! Stores try to setup local psuedo monopolies in local areas. 'You must buy from me or have your spa servicxed by me.' There are 1000's of Sundance, HS, etc dealers in the US - Go with the one that offers the lowest price (knowing you may have extra shipping costs). Then, use your local dealer for service and support. Its that simple!
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I don't think this info is entirely correct.
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I just have to say this.
Needaspa, you are crazy if you think that way. I couldn't expect to drive 2 hours to buy a spa for some "PERCEIVED" price reduction, to turn around and expect the dealer who is only 30 minutes away to maintain my warranty. Yes, warranties are manufacturer's, but as many spa dealers and technicians on these boards will be happy to point out, the warranties don't come for free!!! They are built into the price of the tub. And the manufacturer's keep track of who you bought from. When I registered my tub after purchase, so the warranty would be activated, I was required to tell them the name, address, etc. of the dealer I purchased from. Maybe the others don't, but HotSpring's does.
This, of course, as always, is just my opinion.
If you are that worried about the price you are paying, then maybe you shouldn't buy a spa. Or buy from one of the big box stores (Wal-Mart, Sam's, Costco) and be done with it. I personally believe in supporting local business! I understand you want to get the best deal, we all did.
Ok, rant over. Enough said. I'm through!
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Well, regarding warranty...
What if I buy a spa and have it delivered and then decide to move 3 hours away and have the spa professionally moved so as to not void the warranty. Then who services it?
The spa is warranted from the manufacturer to work and they need to fix it if it doesn't. Some warranties charge for greater than "customary" travel expense, which is why lawyers exist.
-Ed
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Ed,
Just have the closet dealer do your service. As far as having a professional move it to not void the warranty, that is a fallacy! A scare tactic!
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(Blind foolishness given this post to add but hey I'm on vacation).
When we bought our tub we shopped around. There are three Sundance dealers within a 150Km radius of us. After getting prices we went with the one that we felt earned our money. He was'nt the cheapest but they were all within $500 on their quotes for the very same Sundance optima, manufactured in the same plant with the same bells and whistles. So we went with comfort. BTW he was the closest at about 15km. Coincidence?
Impossible to price the same product in a different city given that cartage costs, and soo many other factors like insurance, rent, overhead, etc... will be different. My only concern are comments made by other esteemed posters on the value of customer service from the dealer you buy from knowing that the manufacturer will and must stand behing their product. All I can say to that is, customer service is what keeps me coming back again and again. I have a problem, call the dealer and it's solved, I have a question, called the dealer and it's answered, I have a favour to ask, call the dealer and nine times out of ten, it's granted.
As I said is a previous post earlier today, customer service is based on respect, which is earned.
Needaspa, in all honesty, if I was a dealer and you came into my store with your attitude i would thank you for you generous offer to purchase a tub from me (at your more than generous price) but I would say, No thank you. I dont need the BS that would go with servicing you. And I'm not a dealer but a simple owner.
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see...........customer service is a two way street. the dealer doodoo purchased from respects him for choosing to buy from them eventhough they were more expensive. doodoo in turn treats the dealer of his spa with respect by going back to them to purchase spa products and quite possibly referring new customers to them. Now they have a relationship built on buyer/seller mutual respect. Now lets say needaspa comes into the store i manage and gives us HIS offer for a D-1 nautilus (used just for cmparrison with the optima). My sales staff would say thanks for your ofer, but we just can't sell you that spa at your price and stay in business. Also it would be a disservice to all the customers who purchased that model before you came along at our everyday price. It wouldn't be fair to them, and it could potentially hurt us down the rd as well. plus if you're that demanding BEFORE buying a tub, we couldn't possibly imagine how demanding you would/will be after purchasing the tub from us. Just my two cents. well said Lori and doodoo!
Jason,
Store manager for a D-1 and Caldera Dealer
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Poolboy34,
I do not understand the point you are making in your post (which is different than agreeing with needaspa ;D).
In your example, doodoo paid a little more for his(her?) spa, and comes back to the dealer to purchase spa products. That's doodoo's end of the bargain of "mutual respect".
The dealer's end of the bargain is that they "respect doodoo". Heck, go to any salesman selling anything and say "your competitor costs less but I'm going with you as is" and you just made a friend.
The dealer here got a tangible benefit: money. Doodoo got an intangible benefit: "respect". For that to make sense , the respect of the dealer has to have some tangible benefit. Do "respected" customers get better prices where you work? Do they bubble to the front of the list for warranty work? Do dealers give better warranty service to customers they like?
I'm not trying to be a penny pincher -- I actually didn't haggle for the 2003 grandee I got because the price was smack dab where my research said it should be for my area (as opposed to, say, the optima dealer in my area).
However, I didn't walk into the hot tub dealer's store to make a new friend and I certainly have an expectation that my warranty work and general service is the same whether the dealer thinks I'm fat, thin, sexy, ugly, nice, mean, smart or dumb.
Everyone wants an honest dealer with an honest mechanic and an honest price. Some people (but not all people) are also willing to pay more for extras like a friendly smile when you walk in the store, unlimited water testing, or free phone advice. Other people, however, don't value that as they can research those thing elsewhere. Some people purchase chemicals online and get advice from *gasp* internet message boards. So I don't think someone is a *jerk* if they don't want to pay for more than the hot tub and the contractual service.
As an aside, I predict needaspa will purchase a tub for more money than (s)he wants to but for less money that (s)he would otherwise have paid. Give me one dealer who, over the course of a year, sells a given model of tub at a fixed price to *every* purchaser of that model of tub. Some people come in and pay sticker. Some people come in and haggle to the dime. As a dealer you try and keep it in the middle and maybe come down a little bit to increase volume. 10 tubs at $1000 profit beats 5 tubs at $1500 profit.
We have a great relationship with a local jewler that we recommend to everyone. He's a nice guy and its a family owned business and we get smiles and handshakes whenever we come in to the store and plenty of "favors" (like free jewelry cleaning and free ring repair, gold dipping and what not) and I've given out hundreds of his business cards. Why? Not because I paid extra money for his charisma!! It was because he had the best prices in town and he "respects" me because I evangelize his business based on his efficiency and cost-effectiveness and increase his volume.
There are many ways to earn a dealer's friendship and respect while still seeking an honest and competative price. In other industries mature dealers expect an informed customer to price shop and I just don't see why that wouldn't apply to hot tubs as well.
-Ed
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Amen Ed! :D I couldnt agree with you more! Its amazing the people who feel they have to pay extra for service and a happy face from the store. They unfortunately believe that there is some sort of tangible or intangible bonus for paying more. There is not! It reminds me why banks give out free lollipops when you complete a transaction especially a deposit at such LOW rates now a days - they are suckers! :)
In my posts, I only try to illustrate the fact that there is a HUGE HUGE (75%+) markup on spas that people feel obligated to pay. Why? Why pad the dealers pocket more! Wouldnt they rather pay a lower amount and have extra to save or even buy cool spa accesories.
Also, by paying these absorbinate (sp?) amounts, the buyer is not giving the dealer any incentices to make his business more efficient (less inventory, staff hours, power, etc) because of the extra money per sold unit he banks.
Like you said '10 tubs at $1000 profit beats 5 tubs at $1500 profit. ' I am not a dealer but I am guessing in addition he is getting volume rewards from the manufacture which further pads the bottom line.
Oh well, I try.
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Needaspa
75% mark ups. Are you talking about MSRP or what average consumers are paying...? I am sorry, but You are so negative and question the integrity of those who are simply trying to provide advice, help or suggestions for those who seek them based on their experience...again.... I will say you need to understand the value of what you want…the cost of it means nothing.... all that really matters is what it is worth…. does it matter that I paid x amount of dollars for my home 2 years ago but now its value is 60% higher…should I sell it for less…because someone might not think it is fair…. even though that is its current market value. Again you have to know what the value is for what you want …cost means ZERO in this equation... but it seems you want to dictate to someone how much money YOU feel is fair that someone should make...Do you actually believe that if you know what a dealer paid for something that means he is going to sell it for less...or even more importantly could sell it for less and still stay in business...it makes no sense…. in today’s economy and retail world, competitive balance keeps “most” everything in check. You are going to go a long time without getting what you want until you come across the person who is in a bad or desperate way…or until someone can convince you that they have something that costs less and that is just as good as what you really want and you take it figuring you out smarted everyone else…
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I am not a dealer but I am guessing ...
This explains why your statements are often far from reality!
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From what I have heard, 75% markup is conservative. If I am wrong, let a dealer reply and show me his purchase price from the manuf, his overhead costs, target profit, etc and we will determine the markup publicly and set the story start. However, I will bet that will never happen! I will just get excuses of why they can't. Hey, prove me wrong dealers. The ball is in your court!
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From what I have heard, 75% markup is conservative......Hey, prove me wrong dealers. The ball is in your court!
With your attitude, approach and belief in the ability of hot tub dealers to mark up their products by an average of 75% (your figure here) you are in for quite a long wait in acquiring a tub that you believe is fairly priced. BTW that would also suggest an unbelievable twist for the spa industry because that would mean that they collectively do the same thing. I suggest a different theory, that of market driven forces whichmean operational costs plus profit equals the consumer price.
Ya know something Needaspa, the ball is really in YOUR COURT. As your nom de plume reveals you are currently without a spa and looking to acquire one. From what you've heard.....you say. You sound more like a child that has been told you cannot get your ice cream today. :D
Enough said. I'm here to learn and offer advice. Of all the boards that I have stumbled onto this one is by far the most informative and neutral. You on the other hand..........
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Why don't you just go and play ball with yourself...why doesn't every business of every type just show what they pay for everything...next time I am in Napa auto parts...or Nordstrom.... Sears...the furniture store...why stop with spas.... AM-PM for the big gulp soda...I am going to demand they tell the cost of it all.... which by the way oh great dense one is only a small part of THE TOTAL COST of doing business....
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If you have a problen with your sundance and you bought it from another state or anywhere else the dealer nearest you will fix it.You might be on the bottom of his list but he will fix it.Samething with my john deere lawntractor I bought it from Homedepot but all john deere dealers have to fix it if I have a problem.They hate it when someone buys something from homedepot but they have nothing to say so I would not worry go and find the best price.Johnny Thunders
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Like I said excuses. Your examples, Mendo, are small ticket items. I dont care the price break of those. Cars for example have invoice, transportation, etc fees that I can easily see. Why not spas?
'market driven forces whichmean operational costs plus profit equals the consumer price.' If were truly market driven, the final price would have nothing to do with profit and operational cost. The price would be what the buyer is willing to pay. Thats a market economy.
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Like I said excuses. Your examples, Mendo, are small ticket items. I dont care the price break of those. Cars for example have invoice, transportation, etc fees that I can easily see. Why not spas?
'market driven forces whichmean operational costs plus profit equals the consumer price.' If were truly market driven, the final price would have nothing to do with profit and operational cost. The price would be what the buyer is willing to pay. Thats a market economy.
It's a two way street oh one without a spa (as I soak in mine). It also depends on what the dealer is willing to sell it for. GOOD LUCK with your purchase based on what you are willing to pay for.
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Hello feeble minded needaspa...SMALL ticket items.... lets see...I mentioned Sears...a good wide array of items there.... furniture...I guess that sectional my buddy just brought for 14 grand is a "small" ticket item.... but I tell you what...go a head and send me or better yet post your pay check stub and also your w 2 from last year and I will make sure I get someone to show you a spa invoice...tell me are you ready to step the same way you want others to.... I doubt it...
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wow.................I suggest you ask your local sundance dealer for a used optima b/c at your asking price......all sundance dealers will laugh you out of their store.
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Needaspa, ::)
As I posted with more detail on Cajun_Mike's thread titled: Prices paid for Sundance Optima, my study of thousands of posts at this site over a 2 year period indicated that the lowest price that anyone has paid for the Sundance Optima was $7300. Typical prices were $7700 to $8000. $8400 was the highest price paid.
A target price of $6500 is unrealistic.
Electro
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Needsaspa doesn't really want a spa, he or she just wants to stir up things on the bb.
I bet you don't get any response from any spa dealer, because asking for the cost of their merchandise is just plain rude. It's akin to asking someone what their salary is, what they paid for their house or cars or boats, or other things that are just plan none of your business. Go get that $6500 Optima. Then just go.
Brewman
PS
Consider changing your name to Needsadoseofreality.
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;D
Brewman,
You crack me up!!!
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My guess is you can try and search for a used optima and get it at a good rate. Keep looking at E-bay and various classified ads. Even if the spa is on the other side of the USA, it could cost less to buy a used one and transport it than to buy a new one.
I don't think you will get a new optima for your price. If you do though, please let me know! Sundance spaces its dealers out and, at least in my area, one dealer won't sell into another dealer's area. Several dealers would rather lose a sale than set a precedent.
When I bought my Grandee I'm sure *alot* of the price, although probably not 75%!, went to profit margins for the manufactuerer and the dealer. I can't imagine the Grandee costs more than $1k in materials. (Aren't we worth, like, $40 in chemicals??) but I wanted the model and did my little bit of philanthropy and helped somebody's daughter go to college and someone else buy a new porsche.
You may want to look at a manufacturer-direct spa. You can get a big one for around $4k. Even if it is plagued with problems, if you are at all handy you can tackle them and they would have to amount to more than $3k over 5 years to wind up costing you *more* than the optima.
Heck a so-so thermospa and a new 60" (??) DLP TV trump a single optima (for the same price) in my book! 8)
-Ed
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Here is my observation from this forum and many visits to local dealers on our search for a spa. The main posters on this forum are spa dealers from the major 6 manufactures so what do you think they are going to say about their $8,000 spa when compared to the reasonably priced same size and features $5,000 spa from another manufacturer? You don't see any posts from customers that have bought other brands and have not been happy do you??? Because the readers are getting all of this information here that the only spas to buy are the "big 6" and that is all you hear about, they get so scared by the miss information that they either decide not to buy a spa or waste their money on one of these over priced spas that are promoted here on this forum. They are not going to let you in on the costs of their spa and the 60-75% markup that they put on their spas. When visiting the local dealers in our area they also stressed the need for a "local service man" and importance of their service, then 3 sentences later they were bragging how most of the spas they sell go 4,5,or 7 years with out even needing service....so why again should we pay the extra $3,000. We have pretty much decided to go with a factory direct spa which has all of the same features of the "big 6 manufactures" but for about 1/2 the price. We just cant see paying an extra $4,000 because of it's name.
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Whypaymore:
If service is such a non-issue:
Why does Cal Spas have such a bad reputation? Service from the manufacturer.
Why does Hotspring have such a great reputation? Service from the manufacturer.
Sometimes it is worth paying $3,000 dollars more.
Chris H
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You don't see any posts from customers that have bought other brands and have not been happy do you??? Because the readers are getting all of this information here that the only spas to buy are the "big 6" and that is all you hear about,
YES YOU DO, if you look. You are only seeing what you want to see. If you search this site as well as Spahelp.com, Dr Spa, and poolandspas.com you'll see MANY posts from disgruntled OWNERS of spas from Cal Spas and Thermospas (fairly large spa makers) and many complaints from some of these middling spa makers who promise their $5k spas are as good as the premium makers spas only to find out the Quality is not as good and the warranty is basically a piece of paper with words on it that are not honored. There have been sooo many posts from people telling others not to make the mistake they've made of thinking these "factory direct" spas are on par. BTW, often factory direct means the manufacturer can't get a reputable dealer to carry their product and have to have ownership of the store themselves so that factory direct thing is simply a sales ploy. Now if you're buying from the internet then you're really rolling the dice. If you do end up with a dog that is constantly broken down and in need of expensive service that is your responsibility cause you don't have a warranty to be honored, remember, these things make a great planter.
I suggest you buy one of these $5k spas that are "just as good" as the spas made by Hot Spring, Sundance, Jacuzzi, Caldera and Marquis. After all, a Kia is just as good a Honda and at a far better price and in the spa industry there are still some making spas on par with a Yugo if you really want to save.
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Since this thread includes so much about "dealer cost" and "expense" I have a related question that I think is appropriate here (at least I know it will be seen with 745 views and growing :P )
Are coupons for $ off found on manufacturers websites and promos a "rebate" from the manufacturer? In otherwords if I strike a deal with a dealer then whip out the a coupon for $500 off will the dealer honor that because it's a "discount" from the manufacturer - not taking from a dealer's profit?
BTW, Steve kudos on your post - I wish every dealer was liken to your post...
Give me the "real" price the first time and I'll decide if it's the right price for me - a sale made or I'm on to the next. I am sick of walking into a dealer showrooms to see a a price tag that says "$10,500 on sale during this weekend's super pre-summer blowout for $8,995" then after the salesperson knows i'm serious and am not impressed with the "super sale" i get the whisper "I can give you a real good deal, how about $8,485?" Then when I display a mild amount of disgust for the tactic I get the "let me check, i might be able to do better" (yes, I am referring to known name brands praised thoughout this forum)
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Well, I am glad to see other people post their feelings over over priced spas! I almost forgot until I read a few posts back that why should be pay 1000's more for 'service' when the big spa makers offer 5+ year warranties?!? Porsche sales must he high! Pure profit!
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BTW, Steve kudos on your post - I wish every dealer was liken to your post...
Give me the "real" price the first time and I'll decide if it's the right price for me - a sale made or I'm on to the next. I am sick of walking into a dealer showrooms to see a a price tag that says "$10,500 on sale during this weekend's super pre-summer blowout for $8,995" then after the salesperson knows i'm serious and am not impressed with the "super sale" i get the whisper "I can give you a real good deal, how about $8,485?" Then when I display a mild amount of disgust for the tactic I get the "let me check, i might be able to do better" (yes, I am referring to known name brands praised thoughout this forum)
Here is one better, we were at a Master Spa dealer after we looked around at the spas and were told all of the benifits of the Master spas, we of course asked about costs, the dealer went to his computer and printed off some sheets, Regular Price $16,000.00 Your price $9895.00. He acted like he was giving me this big discount or something, and we would be crazy not to buy today, I said call me crazy then and we left. We will not be buying a Master Spa.... do you dealers out there actually get people to pay these outrageous prices? This guy could probbly sell this spa at $4500 and still be making a good profit.
So here is my next mission, I am going to find 10 hotsprings dealers, 10 sundance dealers, and 10 Marquis dealers (using dealer locater on websites). E-mail them and tell them to give me their best price on the model I am looking at from them with Shipping to my location. I will pay cashiers check to the best offer, and see what prices come in.
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They won't deliver it to you because every spa they sell they have to service. If the manufacturer finds out about it they won't be selling Hotspring, Sundance or Marquis. Good luck though.
Chris H
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One more point. I think that might be a reason why Hotspring/Sundance Spas cannot be purchased on Ebay brand new with a warranty.
Chris H
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So here is my next mission, I am going to find 10 hotsprings dealers, 10 sundance dealers, and 10 Marquis dealers (using dealer locater on websites). E-mail them and tell them to give me their best price on the model I am looking at from them with Shipping to my location. I will pay cashiers check to the best offer, and see what prices come in.
Apparently we have a person who's become all knowing in his few days researching spas and is out for spa truth, justice and the American way to overcome these communist spa companies/dealers. Out to find the truth behind why these spas don't sell for $1999 like they “should". Disgusted that the makers won’t sell to him at their cost (including warranty of course) and skip the middleman. I'd suggest you go to Costco and buy one of their spas and tell everyone how they're just as good as the so called premium spas.
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I keep a 38% margin. My manufacturer shows a MSRP that is basically equal to a 50% markup. I currently use the one price with no wiggle room technique.
Out of my 38% I need to pay for utilities,employees, training,my lease,service vehicles,stocking parts,delivery of the spa,and 2nd trip to assist customer with anything missed at delivery with water care questions,advertising, (yellow pages ain't cheap) after that is all said and done, I take a salary and reivest the rest into the business, which after all is said and done on a spa that costs me from the factory $5000, I get to reinvest around $400, or 8% to grow my business to stay around and help you in the future.
So I ask you, is 10 spas sold at $1000 profit really better than 5 sold at $1500?
I am in the business, and I understand what many dealers are facing. I also am a consumer. I see how a small business works and I support my local retailers. Just like people you have worked for tips are generally better tippers. As a consumer I have a choice of who I wish do to business with. As a business owner I have the rigt of who I wish to do business with.
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The reason that they will not let them be sold on ebay is because the real cost of them would be revealed.... The dealer selling them on ebay would only need to mark them up $500, $800 bucks, and he would be happy seeing all of the sales that he would get. The problem, when a customer comes into a local dealer and says I can get this on ebay for X amount can you match that price? He probbaly could but then he would have to do it for everyone right? There would be no more making millions off of spa sales.
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Needaspa....
What about that w2 and check stub...I guess you just don't have the sac for it.... I don't think you have much of a sac for anything...except to bludgeon people into getting what you want.... you are a jerk off...who needs to get lost...
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'Why, they ught to just ship them from the factory as wholesale prices and skp the dealers all together!'
Man, that would be great!
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Thank you whypaymore. I can raise my prices now and feel comfortable about making $800 a spa to reinvest into my business. Thank you.
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Play nice children.
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If Sundance Et Al, did sell direct w/o the middleman
you'd be complaining that the factory was working on a 7000% profit margin, and that they should be selling to you for $35.89 or something. After all, most spas are made of plastic and wood- basically carbon based materials. With carbon being the most abundant element know to man, the materials must have cost them only about $31.98, plus a few pennies more for the metal in the wiring. It's all a great big conspiracy, I tell you.
Brewman
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to whypay more....
Before you start spewing all of your worthless uninformed ways...Check with any business...weather it be autos...spas...hair care products.... lawn mowers.... manure which by the way you seem to have a mouth full of its samples...when you became a retailer.... you sign a dealer agreement.... which includes the areas in which you are allowed to sell.... ebay is not one of those...these types of agreements have been in place for over a hundred years here in America...they are done to provide benefits both to the retailer as well as the consumer
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to whypay more....
Before you start spewing all of your worthless uninformed ways...Check with any business...weather it be autos...spas...hair care products.... lawn mowers.... manure which by the way you seem to have a mouth full of its samples...when you became a retailer.... you sign a dealer agreement.... which includes the areas in which you are allowed to sell.... ebay is not one of those...these types of agreements have been in place for over a hundred years here in America...they are done to provide benefits both to the retailer as well as the consumer
I am guessing you didn't agree with something I said????
So what is the benifit to a consumer to having to buy from a local dealer that is charging say $8,000 for their product, when there is a dealer 600 miles away selling the exact same product for $2,000 less?
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Buy it for $2,000 dollars less, and then please go away.
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whypaymore,
I am sorry.... you must be a very slow thinker.... do you have a TV.... a radio.... a newspaper.... do you have access to any of those...if you do. Check out how the cost of living is not the same everywhere in the country.... you might get a feel of why something might cost more in some places.... it is not all because someone is just making pure profit...which if you or Needaspa have any real desire or the ability to actually do some research.... you will find that most people around the country for the major brand of spas are usually within 500.00 of each other on average...
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I agree with Chris H, buy and pass the information along to Needaspa so that you and he/she/it can buy your and his/hers/its own and go away.
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So is this what you do to all posters that don't agree with you and have a different opinion/ideas is you post all of the negative name calling until they go away? I think I did that in Kindergarden....
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Its not about being childish or someone who differs in opinion it is about putting out information that is so un founded so irresponsible that causes much grief for those who do not know how completely uniformed you are.... and it is unfair to all of those who are just trying to help others in a meaniful way.....after 13 years in the auto business you see to much of it and know how damaging it can be.....
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go ahead and buy your spa at the dealer 600 miles away from you for 2000$ less.................and then ask for "FREE DELIVERY"....................see what happens........gas ain't cheap these days..so I'm guessing you can tack another 500$+ onto your 2000$ savings for a delivery fee................and then tack another 150$ onto every service call as a trip charge(that's being generous............it'll more likely be around 250$) because the dealer you bought from is contractually obligated to do service work on your spa, and NO your local dealer won't service your spa, and if they do CHOOSE to service your spa you can bet you'll be the last rung on the totem pole for that service as the customers who chose to buy from them will come first.
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Now I don't want to add more fuel to a fire already roaring, but I also believe that you get what you pay for. The Sundance dealer I went to had sticker prices on all spa. When I got down with the salelady she told us: "Now, spa price is 10K (sticker) for everyone. Will you take the 1 year no payment plan? No, then I'll take off 5%, putting us at 9500$. No more dealing." Like Steve said, it gives you a great feeling at that point, knowing that you don't have to argue with anyone and stress out on the price issue. It was one of the reasons we went with the Cameo, that and we loved the spa.
And the service issue. Maybe every Sundance dealer has to service your spa, but how eager will they be? Will you be put at bottom end of the list? I would bet on it. Now my NEW Cameo I just received last Friday is leaking, yes, LEAKING. We found it out on Monday night. Called the dealer first thing on Tuesday morning, told him about it. Said "Oh, it's the most busy time of the year, people reopening their spas after the winter, finding out they have leaks because they didn't closed it properly. But it's brand new, so I'll find some time for you on Thursday". Just a 2 days wait, when the service guy is overloaded, not bad. Would he have done this if I had bought my spa elsewhere? Don't think so. Would have told me to go to dealer, or given me an appointment in 1-2 weeks. Now when you're stressed out because your spa looses about an inch of water a day and you have to refill it every 2 days, waiting is not fun, especially considering it's brand new. I want it to be over. Actually, I'm waiting news from my boyfriend about it, they were suppose to come at 3:00.
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Any dealer can work on your respective spa!! Do not be nieve to think the dealer whom you bought from must service it. Its a contract between the buyer and manufacturer. The dealer (who is qualified to do the work) does the work and then submits the bill to the manuf - the manuf then reimburses the dealer. That's it. There are 1000s of attorneys out there that will be glad to help you with a nonwilling or stuborn dealer.
'No, then I'll take off 5%, putting us at 9500$. No more dealing." Like Steve said, it gives you a great feeling at that point, knowing that you don't have to argue with anyone and stress out on the price issue.'
The 500 discount was given to you not for not taking the financing but as an act to make you feel good. Banks do not charge the dealers to use their financing. HEck, banks are eager enough to have the dealers use them (buyers not paying off in free period) and make money.
'a great feeling at that point, knowing that you don't have to argue with anyone and stress out '
So you are willing to pay a premium for this? YOu have to treat buying a spa like a business. You are there not to make friends with the rep but to get a fair price. I do not understand the cause of stress if you have done your research.
'Are coupons for $ off found on manufacturers websites and promos a "rebate" from the manufacturer? In otherwords if I strike a deal with a dealer then whip out the a coupon for $500 off will the dealer honor that because it's a "discount" from the manufacturer - not taking from a dealer's profit? ' YES!!!!!
ps - 'jerk off' thats a big word for you mendo
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needapsa.....you should really go talk with this fellow out in colorado, b/c you two think alike. Anyways, I hope you don't act this childish and pompous when you are trying to negotiate a price with your local sundance dealer, because it won't get you anywhere. And as far as the service aspect................dealers sign a service agreement with the manufacturer to service all spas that said dealer sells of that manufacturers brand. that's it, and if an attorney looks at the agreement, they'll see that. You should also know that any and all businesses have the right to choose whom they will do business with, and it should also be noted that dealers also have the right to refuse servicing your hot tub if you are unrully, rude, arrogant, and overly demanding as well. You really should read the fine print of all those contracts you are signing wantaspa....oops I mean needaspa ;D Furthermore............the contract you sign at time of purchase won't have the manufacturer's name on it, it will however have the name of the dealer you are purchasing from, making your agreement between you and the dealer you are purchasing from.
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You are right again poolboy.
Also needaspa, the if you read the post correctly, the $500 off was for not doing the 12 months no payment no interest option, which currently lending institutes are charging dealers 5-7% to use. They do not do this for free as you would assume. Straight financing there is no charge for. If there is a dealer out there that is getting the 12 months option for free let me know where you got from.
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Is it really Needaspa...?
It is a funny thing needapa.... but you know this about yourself better than anyone here.... but each time you want to make a purchase for something it is always a battle.... always figuring you are more clever than most and are going to out smart the system.... nothing wrong in looking for a good or fair deal...many people do that...the problem with you is that you are just simply to dense to know what a good or fair deal is for what you are looking for...you just do not have the ability to know the value of anything....did you make that call to Wells yet or any other bank....if you did than you would have found out that retailers do share in the costs of offering 0% financing or no payments for a period of time.....(they do not if the banks are charging intrest)..the fact is anything that might actually take place in the real world and not floating around in your self serving head is nothing you want to hear about....it is so transparent to those who work in this field and other retail business that you are clueless in the way things really work...banks really do charge retailers for promotional interest rates....men who deliver things to you really do get paid even if it says free delivery, they are not volunteers.....spa dealers do incur a cost for the rebate coupons....you still don't have the sac to post that check stub or w2.....the sun will rise tomorrow....and you will be trapped in that world that revolves around you and the way you think things should be all for the betterment of yourself....and that big word still is true you are a jerk off...
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actually you know needapsa......you stick around for my amusement, cause it's great stress relief ranting on you and proving all of your dissillusioned thoughts wrong. My work days are long, and thankfully I don't have to deal (and I quote my friend mendo) with jerkoffs like yourself.
Anyways, thanks iowaspaman, and it's always good to see mendo chime in. Let's all hope needapsa gets a spa so he'll use his time in it instead of harrassing all of the legitimate spa buyers and dealers who frequent this baord to help answer questions.
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lol....
I wonder what would happen if this was a new or used car site. ???
I think there are probably a bunch of things that affect the dealers mark up, like location, number of spa sold and other local market conditions.
Locally, a Optima is about $8500 and the Grandee is $8000. before negotiations.
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Shut down...
You are so right and it is not a very hard thing to figure out.... I am in California.... a few months back we recalled the Gov....and you know who took office one of his bigger platforms that he ran on was workers comp insurance which is the highest in the country...cost of doing business here is higher than other parts of the country.... retail space here within a 5 mile radius varies from a buck a sq ft to well over three and that is just for average type retail centers...but not everyone wants to look at the big or total cost of doing business.... all they want to know what does that spa invoice for.....and than say that anything else they do not consider it a cost.....lol...Disneyland is close by.....and fantasyland is a big part of the park.....needaspa perhaps you should shop there....
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"Take your time and negotiate over a period of time to make sure you get the best deal."
Both my former employer (A HotSpring dealer) and myself suscribe to a fixed price point strategy- The spa models are offered with a tiered feature and pricing structure and negotiating over a period of time only delays your delivery date.
"To me, price should be considered priority #1 and above dealer reputation, service, etc. The spa you buy is covered under a manufacturer's warranty not store warranty. Do not deel pressured to buy from a store that has been in business for years and seems to be the nicest, politest, etc. "
So you should buy from the dealer with the lowest price reguardless of their experience, customer satisfaction, honesty, reliability, or any other track record?
Forgive me, but that's just completely stupid in my opinion-
Imagine buying from a dealer based on price alone, and having the dealer file bankruptcy after taking your deposit for your spa, or botch the delivery by damaging the product, or deliver faulty or used product, or deliver the wrong model, color, or size, have a dealer or his representatives be rude, impolite, or unapologetically profane, and have a dealer not be equipped to handle orientation, service, repair, or maintenance. Is it really worth the percieved savings?
My answer is no- I have a handful of customers who bought spas through product liquidators and big box retailers that regret ever buying a hot tub, and will probably never buy another tub because of the negative experiences they associated with their purchase :-/. Many experienced problems that might have been quickly resolved by a local dealer, that subsequently had to be channeled through a national call center, which sought out a national service provider, that in turn sought out a local technician- confirming and checking references before passing down the customer information to the point an appointment for warranty repair could be scheduled... Dont even get me started on how I get paid... :-X
My point is, when looking for a spa, at least half of the shopping should be done in an effort to find a dealer that can support the product after the sale. I'd go so far as to say its even acceptable to puchase a spa that is average or mediocre if the dealer is a top-notch service provider, a giant in customer satisfaction...
"Stores try to setup local psuedo monopolies in local areas. 'You must buy from me or have your spa servicxed (SIC) by me.' There are 1000's of Sundance, HS, etc dealers in the US - Go with the one that offers the lowest price (knowing you may have extra shipping costs). Then, use your local dealer for service and support. Its that simple! "
Hmmm... Oh, really? My prior employer had no qualms denying service to those who bought product from neighboring territories which dealt in the same product.
One experience in particular comes to mind. A prospect came in working the owner trying to get a 'deal'- It was clear the prospect had been to the neighboring dealers store and was trying to play one dealer against the other. The store owner offered an additional accessory to net the deal and and arrangements were made to deliver the product- On the day of the delivery, with the spa planted on the prospects deck, he reneged- refusing to cut a check for the full balance until the store owner agreed to match the neighboring territories last offer. I was instructed to pick up the spa and the prospect bought the exact same model from the other dealer who was a little more than an hours drive time away- I was also instructed to refer the prospect to the neighboring dealer for any of their needs, including warranty repair. That customer is now paying travel fees associated with the distance from his dealer...
Finally, a word picture-
A candy bar is a suitable product for a vending machine- It requires no maintenance or 'after-the-sale' support. It delivers a very short period of customer satisfaction.
A hot tub on the other hand is not suitable for a vending machine. It is a complicated appliance that requires regular customer maintenance and attention by trained professionals if something is faulty. It has the potential of having a very long period of customer satisfaction-- but cant achieve this without qualified 'after-the-sale' service and support.
Please, oh please, tell me that you can see the difference. :(
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Let me finish this thread.........
Dorsey, the spa you should buy is the spa that feels the best when you wet test. You should buy it from a dealer that you feel comfortable doing business with. You can ask for a lower price, but it doesn't mean you'll get it, they may have a demo or a previous year's model left over that they need to move, but it doesn't hurt to ask.
Contrary to the belief of some, there are dealers out their that are concerned about you and the service you will recieve in the future.
There are a lot of good dealers on this board that would like nothing more than to help you find the right spa for you. Most of the people that have responded do not service the Baltimore area, but yet they give you advice. How do they benefit from assisting you? They benefit because you become a hot tub owner and you tell your friends.
In conclusion, Romie thanks for the vine and I am out.
rack me!