Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: mouth on January 03, 2011, 01:13:43 pm
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Looking to purchase first Tub. We think we have narrowed our choices to Caldera (Niagara-$8700 + tax, Hawaiian-$6700 + tax) or Sundance (Chelsee-$8500 + tax, Optima-$11700 + tax) and also considered Hot Springs, Artisian & D1, but like the Tub layouts of the Caldera and Sundance. I do have a few questions hopefully someone can answer before we schedule a wet test.
#1. Are Air Jets (Air Blower) a big plus or not really needed? Both Calderas come with them, but the Sundance Chelsee does not.
#2. Which of these brands has the best water filtration system?
#3. Is the Optima really worth $3000 more than the Chelsee?
#4. Between the Chelsee and the Niagara which is better?
#5. We live in Michigan, so is one insulated better?
Thanks in advance for any information you can provide.
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1. The best way to answer that question is for you to try out the spas wet. Most dealers will let you. The air jets feel completely different against your body than water jets. Some love it, some don't.
2. Both of these brands are top of the line and have excellent filtration systems.
3. Again you will have to try them out to be sure. Everyone is different.
4. See answer 3.
5. Both brands are very well insulated.
I know I was not much help. But these questions can only be answered by testing the spa wet. Buy the one that FEELS the best. Both of these brands are high quality.
RobertB
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I'll answer those questions that I can.
1. We don't like them. You can expect your spa to start losing temperature rapidly with the blower on, especially in a cold climate like Michigan. We had a tub with a blower and the only time we used it was for a couple minutes before we got out of the tub. If you use it during the first part of your soak, you can expect the rest of your soak to be in cooler water which, for us anyway, was not good.
2. Both have good filtration and I wouldn't put the filtration system very high on my list of concerns with those and several other brands.
3. &4. Your decision. Better? I could probably give you a preference list of manufacturers or even models, but it would be hard for me to say one is better than another when your talking about models within top makes. I can say this. You are looking at good, top shelf, quality spas with good reputations, but a better question for YOU to answer is "which is better for ME?", and you can answer that by wet testing both.
5. I don't think one is any better insulated than the other. Both are pretty well insulated.
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Thanks for your feedback and I just located a Jacuzzi Dealer in the area, so I'm going Saturday to look at (Wet test?) a J365 and J355. I know Jacuzzi is made by the same manufacture as Sundance, so I assume I can expect the same quality, correct? If not what are the major plus/minuses between the 2 (J365 and Chelsee)? Thanks again for any feedback you can provide
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Jacuzzi is right up there with the others as far as quality goes and my answers to your questions would be the same if you throw their tubs into the mix. Might as well mention that the others you looked at would get the same reply to. D1, Hot Spring, Sundance, Jacuzzi. You're shopping in the same ball park as far as quality goes with any of the makes you have mentioned. I will say that I don't know much about Artesian though. With those brands, pick the one that suits you because you're comparing apples to apples and not comparing a good, quality tub to something that's inferior. My personal preferance as far as makes go would put Hot Spring and Sundance at the top. Followed by Jacuzzi and D1 and I'm in no way suggesting that any is better than the other. I'm simply saying I like them better as far as layout and features and things like that go. For example, I really don't care for the neck flex jets on the D1. I'm not saying they are bad, simply that I don't like them. I suppose some don't like the moto massage seats on a HS, but I do.
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Thanks for your feedback and I just located a Jacuzzi Dealer in the area, so I'm going Saturday to look at (Wet test?) a J365 and J355. I know Jacuzzi is made by the same manufacture as Sundance, so I assume I can expect the same quality, correct? If not what are the major plus/minuses between the 2 (J365 and Chelsee)? Thanks again for any feedback you can provide
My shotr list of spas would include Caldera, d1, Hot spring, jacuzzi and Sundance so IMO you've got some good options. Take you time, wet test, get a feel for the dealer, pay more attention to quality and functions than bells and whistles, think about what you really want/need, ...
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Thanks for your feedback and I just located a Jacuzzi Dealer in the area, so I'm going Saturday to look at (Wet test?) a J365 and J355. I know Jacuzzi is made by the same manufacture as Sundance, so I assume I can expect the same quality, correct? If not what are the major plus/minuses between the 2 (J365 and Chelsee)? Thanks again for any feedback you can provide
Also a good choice.
FYI Jacuzzi and Sundance are different manufacturers owned by the same company. They are not made by the same people.
Good Luck
RobertB
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these are all good brands you are looking at my short list : D1, Hot Springs, Sundance, Jacuzzi, Marquis,, to name a couple all built well, different layouts, different designs, but you should check them all out,,,,
RobertB,
Are you sure about them being built, Yes they are both owned by the same company,Were are the Sundance built and were are the Jacuzzi built? I know this answer do you? ...just checkn...
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RobertB,
Are you sure about them being built, Yes they are both owned by the same company,Were are the Sundance built and were are the Jacuzzi built? I know this answer do you? ...just checkn...
Apparently I don't know ;). They used to be built seperately. Now both of their headquarters are at
14525 Monte Ave. Chino, CA 91710. I was just recalling way back when they merged, being told(by a sundance rep) they would remain seperate. I guess they changed their minds.
They are still both fine spas.
RobertB
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Well, thanks to all the help and suggestions we have made a decision on our first Hot Tub. We wet tested the Jacuzzi J-365, the Caldera Niagara and the Sundance Chelsee & Optima. IMO I thought the Caldera and both Sundances were much nicer than the Jacuzzi (jet feel is a major difference). During wet testing my wife and I really enjoyed the Foot jets on the Sundances, so the Caldera was eliminated (no foot jets). I'm 5'10 and the Chelsee depth did not feel right for some reason (I felt kind of cramped), so we are going with the Optima. This tub seems to offer all the things we are looking for, although it is also the most expensive. We found a 2010 Floor Model (never been filled) Copper Sand / Contemporary Cabinet w/ Stereo, Ozone, Cover, Cover Lifter, Steps and chemicals, quoted $11,000 out the door. Could someone please confirm if this is a good price?
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Sitting on the floor or not, please tell me where I can get an Optima cheaper? I've did quite a bit of searching on this site, in my area and have not seen one with similar equipment cheaper? Trust me, I worked on the price, they originally quoted $10,800 without the Stereo and Cover Lifter.
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I haven't priced an optima recently and prices vary around the country but in my market that would seem to be a pretty good price. I don't think you'll do much better on price so i wouldn't worry about it and just know that you will be getting a great tub.
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Some things to consider here ... The spa may have been purchased thru a flooring company, with terms , so he may not have to discount it to move yet,, If he is starting to pay interest on the unit then he may drop price to get the sale, The dealer may feel that he will sell it for that price to the next guy. It all depends on each dealers situation, his cost of doing business !!!!I think the price is not far fetched,,, There are other comparable brands that may be less, But you need to check them out , this may ease your price you are paying, Go out and look at the D1 Nautilus, Clearwater Tradition, The Hot Spring Grandee, Jacuzzi j470, Marquis Epic, just to name a few,
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I hear ya drmac. In this case the poster is getting all the extras that aren't really extras - cover, chems but also some things that are not - stereo, lifter. Personally I am not a fan of stereos that come with tubs but some people really enjoy them. I don't play music when in the tub.
It sounds like the dealer came down $700 from the original price of $11,700. You referenced list price in your post - not sure what list would be for this tub but it would be much higher.
As for Marquis pricing - I could have ordered a new Epic for about $8000 in my market last summer. You may have left some money on the table or maybe your market is different.
Anyway - I think the poster has found a tub he really likes and price seems very fair so why not pull the trigger and be happy? If price was out of line sure, but just becasue it is on the floor doesn't mean the dealer will bend over to get rid of it. On the other hand - it never hurts to ask...
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Although I rarely post, some folks were of great help to me about 4 months ago when we were looking to purchase a hot tub. My wife and I thoroughly enjoyed the Cameo after wet testing, which is the companion to the Optima (less foot jet action, but a lounger, and we both like the lounger!)
As for pricing, that was my concern that brought me to this forum...we were at the end of the 2010 model year season (August/Sept, and even into Oct when we finalized everything) timeframe. For comparison purposes, we received the 2010 Cameo, in our choice of color combination, with the standards (steps, cover, cover lifter, starter chems), about an additional 3 months of chemicals, a 'free upgrade' to the premium stereo (which at first we didn't care much about, but have really grown to enjoy the stereo...it might not last forever, but it is actually something we use almost every time we go in), and a rebate offer for a $500 Apple gift card (which we just received).
I know our dealer was able to combine a couple offers, but we got this for $10,000 + tax (negotiated it down an additional $200 by paying cash, which may be another tactic you can employ). We did exhaustive research, and feel that, yes, maybe we 'could' have got our dealer down a bit more, but that overall it was a very nice package for a very competitive price. For reference purposes, the 'deal' price on the sign next to the tub was in the upper $11,000s...with a 'list' price (which included a very overpriced stereo/ozone, etc) for around $14,000.
Anyway, probably a bit more than you want to know, but if it helps you to feel out your deal, it may be helpful.
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Thanks for all the feedback and we have decided to go ahead with the purchase of the Sundance Optima for $11,000 (Copper Sand / Mohaganny with Cover, Cover Lifter, Steps, Chemicals, Intelli-Sound Stereo, Sunzone CD Ozone Generator and Delivery & Set-up). Also, I did find a $300 gift card voucher (if I spend $3000 or more) on there website, so this should buy another filter among other things.
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haileypup - Glad that you are enjoying your tub and that this forum was helpful to you. It has certainly been helpful to me.
drmac - Thinking out loud is good. Sharing perspectives and thoughts is how we all learn. My thinking has evolved over time as others have given me their point of view.
My personality is such that I am a relentless researcher and investigator when it comes to purchasing anything - thank goodness my wife is largely tolerant of this obsession. It was no different when I looked into hot tubs and it was very frustrating to find that the hot tub industry is a one of a kind challenge when it comes to figuring out pricing.
I found that prices for two leading brands were signiicantly higher in my local market than what others reported elsewhere. The reasons for that were never clear to me but I tried my best on one of the lines that I was very interested in to work out a better deal. There was always a different reason for why they could give me "such a good price" this time, but the price alway worked out to be the same.
One interesting aspect is that I was actually looking over a period of three model years. I was very interested in two models from one manufacturer. Although there were no real changes in the tubs over that time, the price on the lower one stayed about the same while the price on the higher one went up about $1500. Also during that time, the premium tier of these tubs disappeared from the show room which made that tub that had gone up $1500 the highest pricied tub on the floor and it is in their mid-range line. In the end I don't think it had much to do with their cost, overhead, shipping, pricing etc. I think it had more to do with what people would pay for them. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with this - it is the way capitalism works. As for me, I have a choice in the matter too and was not one of those willing to pay what was asked. I ended up buying a tub from another manufacturer. Interestingly, in my market their tubs were selling for less than what people where reporting elsewhere.
I have heard some negative things about some of the dealers, but in my experience I have felt that they all treated me fairly and I enjoyed the process. I felt that I got a very good fair deal from my dealer and perhaps I could have tried to work 'em down more but I am happy with the tub and what I paid and feel my relationship with the dealer is very positive.
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mouth - while I was posting your post came in. Congrats to you - the Optima is an awesome tub and you will be very ahppy with it!