Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: NWI on February 02, 2009, 01:19:18 pm
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Can anyone let me in on any changes to the 2009 line?
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I've heard through the grapevine that there are some really cool changes on the way.
New bartop LCD color control panel - moving the control panel from the front to the top.
More lighting, for instance, the Moto Massage is going to be lit up. The lights under the pillows will change colors instead of staying blue.
Rumor has it there will be a TV option as well. I've not confirmed that, but have heard it.
Stereo options will be updated as well.
It sounds like some really neat changes. I can't wait to see them in person.
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I've heard through the grapevine that there are some really cool changes on the way.
New bartop LCD color control panel - moving the control panel from the front to the top.
More lighting, for instance, the Moto Massage is going to be lit up. The lights under the pillows will change colors instead of staying blue.
Rumor has it there will be a TV option as well. I've not confirmed that, but have heard it.
Stereo options will be updated as well.
It sounds like some really neat changes. I can't wait to see them in person.
Well I hope there are more changes than that. They sound like just catch-up changes that you have listed to me. HS always tells there customers that they dont want features only to come out with them years after everyone else does..
so whats new and unique..
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Well I hope there are more changes than that. They sound like just catch-up changes that you have listed to me. HS always tells there customers that they dont want features only to come out with them years after everyone else does..
so whats new and unique..
Kialda, I'm sure the guts will be the same. A few extra bells and whistles sound good to me. Personally, I think the Grandee is good just the way it is.
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Well I hope there are more changes than that. They sound like just catch-up changes that you have listed to me. HS always tells there customers that they dont want features only to come out with them years after everyone else does..
so whats new and unique..
Did someone at Watkins pee in your Wheaties one day? Geez.
There is another change, but they asked me not to say anything so I said I wouldn't. This other one will be a pretty big deal. One I don't think anyone in the industry is doing.
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Nah I just like milk with my breakfast, not koolaid ;)
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Nah I just like milk with my breakfast, not koolaid ;)
Koolaid comes in many flavors:
Strawberry,
HotSpring,
Sundance,
Orange,
Arctic,
Jacuzzi,
Cherry,
Marquis...
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Koolaid comes in many flavors:
Strawberry,
HotSpring,
Sundance,
Orange,
[glow]Arctic[/glow],
Jacuzzi,
Cherry,
Marquis...
mmm....
Arctic!
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Yeah, I love Kool Aid!! ;)
(http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv120/happymadison/oh-yeah_koolaid.gif)
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I was impressed with the changes made. They were very smart changes and not something turdish like a new shell color or rumprunners. The biggest changes will mean little to most consumers, but will have a HUGE payoff down the road. Very nice multi-media changes and accoutrements. We will receive our first '09 on Monday. It'll probably be sold by Tuesday. They look sharp.
Term
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No rumprunners? I thought for sure that would be offered in 2009. I pulled the trigger on a 2009 Envoy espresso/sand combo. Glad to finally be getting into hot water after three long years without.
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Did someone at Watkins pee in your Wheaties one day? Geez.
There is another change, but they asked me not to say anything so I said I wouldn't. This other one will be a pretty big deal. One I don't think anyone in the industry is doing.
Yeah, Wouldn't it be great if they could somehow add some more filtration options to make the chemical adding process even easier ;)
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So didn't they already have an automated chemical system? I remember talking about it a while back but no one has mentioned it lately. How did that work out? Do they still offer it?
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Yeah, Wouldn't it be great if they could somehow add some more filtration options to make the chemical adding process even easier ;)
Sanitation and filtration are two seperate issues. But it would be great if they stepped up to the plate and addresed the filtration problem.
To the secret agent guys not wanting to address whats coming up in 2009, I can only say we are coming up to the middle of the first quarter of 2009. Should we not have informed the public and industry of anything new that we are bringing out by now...
Dont feed the bears......
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OK, so what filtraton problem are you talking about? And who should do the stepping up to the plate? I don't remember anyone on here talking about Hot Springs having filtration problems! Are the filters the problem or is it the entire system? Just wondering specifically what you are talking about.
Personally, I kind of like the anticipation. If it's unique it will give us something to talk about. ;)
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Actually, I don't know of any chemical automation they are adding. I know Caldera got the Frog system last year, but I don't think Hot Spring is getting that.
Hot Spring has no issues with filtration. Their filtration works just fine.
When Hot Spring is ready to release information about their other big change, I'm sure some of the dealers on here will be more than happy to share.
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Oh boy...... get your popcorn ready(http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv120/happymadison/popcorn.gif)
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I just inquired at my local dealer and they confirmed what was mentioned above. In addition, they said they were gonna have a new structure (not wood), some updates to the interior styling, and a new control panel or something. Hope that helps. I'm gonna go look at one next week.
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If I recall, HotSprings has an automated sanitation system that works with biguanides...maybe called the Everfresh system?
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Yes, Tony, you remembered. I was just wondering how that worked out? Was is considered successful?
And since you have the better memory, do you every recall Hot Springs having problems with filtration? I am asking because I have an issue with people making remarks that have no basis in fact, but that could negatively influence a potential buyer. Folks come here to get information and when the information has no basis, it tends to confuse people.
I think it is great if Hot Springs has some phenominal new innovative addition to their tubs. It doesn't justify posting questionable information with no legitimate backup to substiantiate the claims..So Kialda, please clarify the Hot Springs filtration problems so we can put this one out to pasture ;) :) If I am wrong here, I apologize but I think the remark needs clarification :-/
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Yes, Tony, you remembered. I was just wondering how that worked out? Was is considered successful?
And since you have the better memory, do you every recall Hot Springs having problems with filtration? I am asking because I have an issue with people making remarks that have no basis in fact, but that could negatively influence a potential buyer. Folks come here to get information and when the information has no basis, it tends to confuse people.
I think it is great if Hot Springs has some phenominal new innovative addition to their tubs. [glow]It doesn't justify posting questionable information with no legitimate backup to substiantiate the claims..[/glow]So Kialda, please clarify the Hot Springs filtration problems so we can put this one out to pasture ;) :) If I am wrong here, I apologize but I think the remark needs clarification :-/
I agree 100%!
I would like for you to keep this in mind next time an Arctic thread comes up!
;)
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Kialda has no information on issues with Hot Spring filtration because there are none.
Bonibelle, yes, they did come out with an automatic system called AutoFresh. It used a proprietary chemical tray using BaquaSpa products.
In my opinion, the system was a failure. It worked, but it was too expensive. The retail price on the refills was/is about $100. Each refill lasts + or - three months. Yes, that's $400 per year, give or take. Plus, the system retailed for around $1000. I don't think the dealers ever bought into the system and didn't push it.
Watkins tried, but missed. Had the system cost less than $500 and the refills been around $50, I think they could have sold them.
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I don't ever recall any issues with HotSprings filtration. Their no bypass filtration has been their system for a long long time. Their Tri X filters seem to be very positive. You can certainly debate whether their system works better than others you can't debate that it works very well, IMO.
I do believe HotSprings is a little slower to change than other manufacturers, but this is probably what makes them a rock solid company.
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I agree 100%!
I would like for you to keep this in mind next time an Arctic thread comes up!
;)
From the forum guidelines
;D
"Topics/posts related to the activities of the moderators or administrators are not permitted. Moderators/administrators would be delighted to hear your opinions via email."
SO :-X ;)
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From the forum guidelines
;D
"Topics/posts related to the activities of the moderators or administrators are not permitted. Moderators/administrators would be delighted to hear your opinions via email."
SO :-X ;)
I found this little excerpt from the guidelines that pertains to you.
"You are older than 12 years old. If you are 12 or younger you will need a release form from your parents prior to posting anything to the site.
(COPPA, 2000)"
SO :-X ;)
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The biggest changes will mean little to most consumers, but will have a HUGE payoff down the road.
Term
Term,
Always enjoy your posts. Would you be kind enough to elaborate?
Thanks,
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I really didn't ask the filtration question as a moderator. I asked it because I directed a friend here after telling him that I knew of no valid reason that he should not buy a Hot Springs tub that he liked. Apparently, he prefers to lurk rather than post, which is fine, but the remark about the filtration prompted him to call me for clarification. So I was hoping that the poster or someone else could refresh my memory so that I don't look like a dummy to my friend.
As far as I can tell, there is no problem with Hot Springs filtration..and Bob, if you read this (you sissy), don't let that post influence your decision. :P
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I really didn't ask the filtration question as a moderator. I asked it because I directed a friend here after telling him that I knew of no valid reason that he should not buy a Hot Springs tub that he liked. Apparently, he prefers to lurk rather than post, which is fine, but the remark about the filtration prompted him to call me for clarification. So I was hoping that the poster or someone else could refresh my memory so that I don't look like a dummy to my friend.
As far as I can tell, there is no problem with Hot Springs filtration..and Bob, if you read this (you sissy), don't let that post influence your decision. :P
This is a perfect example of how unfounded accusations on this forum can effect a spa purchase. Like I have said before and been bashed about saying it, this board directly effects if someone purchase a spa or not. It effects the businesses selling spas AND the person that came into the store wanting to buy one then backing out of buying a spa as a whole! This isnt the first time that this has happened Boni! Now imagine if you hadnt been able to talk to your friend after he read the false statement about HS filtration! It may have cost the HS dealer a sale! This stuff has been happening on this forum for a while and it has cost my store a handful of deals over the past year!
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Sanitation and filtration are two seperate issues. But it would be great if they stepped up to the plate and addresed the filtration problem.
Dont feed the bears......
::) that's one of the most iresponsilbe posts I've seen around here for a while.
Soooo Kialda, just how long has it been since you stopped beating your wife?
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I really didn't ask the filtration question as a moderator. I asked it because I directed a friend here after telling him that I knew of no valid reason that he should not buy a Hot Springs tub that he liked. Apparently, he prefers to lurk rather than post, which is fine, but the remark about the filtration prompted him to call me for clarification. So I was hoping that the poster or someone else could refresh my memory so that I don't look like a dummy to my friend.
As far as I can tell, there is no problem with Hot Springs filtration..and Bob, if you read this (you sissy), don't let that post influence your decision. :P
The problem, whether in cyberspace or or in the real world, is negative selling. Rather than bashing the competition, we need to sell our own products. Summitman captured it. Some people in our industry, by bashing the competition (posting unsubstantiated allegations) end up convincing consumers not to buy a hot tub at all. And we wonder about declining numbers? That were declining well before our current financial situation.
So, Boni, to answer your direct question, there have never been issues with HS filtration. You do have to clean your filters. You do not throw them away after 3 to 6 to 9 months like some other systems.
As Vanguard said, the AutoFresh System was successful from a technological view. It was overpriced for the market. We sold a few. Some customers are still using it; some have moved on.
By the way, what changes have Marquis, Arctic. D1, Sundance...made?
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Arctic came out with a couple small changes, upgraded headrests, new lip design on the shells, and a new lighting package that uses "clear" jets which allows the light to flow through all the jet openings. I have yet to see any of this, suppose to be ready to order as of yesterday. After lots of changes last year I think they gave the R&D department a small break!
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Lights through the jets..now that sounds really cool to me. I would love to see that. ;)
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I found this little excerpt from the guidelines that pertains to you.
"You are older than 12 years old. If you are 12 or younger you will need a release form from your parents prior to posting anything to the site.
(COPPA, 2000)"
SO :-X ;)
That is probably the most childish reply of all time. lol ;D
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That is probably the most childish reply of all time. lol ;D
Coming from an unprovoked jab, I thought that it was fitting.
:) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8-) :-? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-/ :-* :'(
See I can do the emotican thingy too.
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Lights through the jets..now that sounds really cool to me. I would love to see that. ;)
I havent seen it yet, I think Term saw em in Vegas, maybe he got some pics. Ill try to get some pics posted sometime. Im curious to see them.
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So I started all this...(accidentally :-[)..so Mom now says stop it you guys >:( >:(
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So I started all this...(accidentally :-[)..so Mom now says stop it you guys >:( >:(
No problem, I was just trying to stamp home the point that the senseless bashing of brands hurts all of us and this board DOES effect spa sales!
Have a good weekend, its 70 degrees today in Kansas, and Im grillin' some burgers today.
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By the way, what changes have........Sundance...made?
http://www.poolbyggarna.se/spa/2009.pdf
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Boni,
The clear jets look pretty cool. I have seen them on the Caldera Euphoria jet. They look good.
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How do the clear jets look when you are in the spa with the pumps on? ;D
I have a customer and older lady that had several of the jet inserts popped out of her Sundance spa (came with the house she just bought). She needed an orientation and asked if I could get her new jets. No problem. They were SS jets but I knew so was on a fixed income so I got the plain gray ones (lower cost). I put them and showed her the jets (no pump running) and she says but the news are not shiny like the others. I told her let me fix that for you and I turned on the pumps and asked her how do they look now? The look on her face was priceless, she says I cannot see them now. My response was, "how often do you stand outside of the spa with the cover off and no pumps running"? If you would like to spend another $70-$80 I can get the SS ones. Her response was no way you made the right call. True story.
I just cannot figure out why some folks are so worried what their jets look like? Sure the add appeal on the showroom floor but should how they feel be the most important? Do you want to spend another $200-$300 on something you rarely see and adds no functional value to the spa? Just curious.
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Sure they add appeal on the showroom floor but should how they feel be the most important?
But isn't that what's it's all about? The same could be said for the shell color as well, right?
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But isn't that what's it's all about? The same could be said for the shell color as well, right?
I agree I think most folks do put too much of an importance on the shell.
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I just cannot figure out why some folks are so worried what their jets look like? Sure the add appeal on the showroom floor but should how they feel be the most important? Do you want to spend another $200-$300 on something you rarely see and adds no functional value to the spa? Just curious.
Stop trying to use logic. Stainless jets, waterfalls, light shows, etc. are all things I also personally would want to say "skip them and charge me less" but they're not going away because too many spa shoppers want them. Give me 20 jets, 1 light, no waterfall and I'm happier than paying the extra $ for the flashy look most spas have. However, if you don't have those things for the average customers you'll loose sales to spas that do have them because we're Americans as we're mesmorized by shiny, cool looking gadgets.
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Light down below,lighted water fall or other ok, lighted jets are a bit to much for me. As an ex service tech to me it seems like it could be a nightmare, specially if the spa is buried in a deck.
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I just cannot figure out why some folks are so worried what their jets look like? Sure the add appeal on the showroom floor but should how they feel be the most important? Do you want to spend another $200-$300 on something you rarely see and adds no functional value to the spa? Just curious.
I think it's safe to say that most people who are able/willing to spend thousands of dollars on a hot tub also have an interest in impressing their friends with their new toy. It's the same reason people buy a Lincoln Town Car over a Ford Crown Victoria or a Lexus ES over a Toyota Camry. The same reason we spend thousands of dollars on landscaping when it's much cheaper and easier to spray grass killer and never worry about it. Americans are about pride. When I look at my shiny jets, it makes me feel good inside. When I see my multicolor lighting it makes me feel good. There's more to a hot tubbing experience than moving, warm water. How does it sound? Did the manufacturer spend extra effort on sound insulation or does the pump sound like an old washing machine? Did the manufacturer. Is the lighting provided by a 40-watt appliance bulb or by multicolor lighting that adds to the ambiance. Are there water features that provide visual and audible entertainment? I'd feel pretty cheated if I paid $8,000 for no lights, gray jets, and a plain white shell. However, I'm not going to install curb feelers or hang fuzzy dice from the control panel. :D
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No problem, I was just trying to stamp home the point that the senseless bashing of brands hurts all of us and this board DOES effect spa sales!
Not just on this board, but everywhere. I was talking to one of my dealers yesterday about this. This industry isn't going anywhere until the people selling them stop imitating used-car salesmen bashing everything but their own product. The dealer I was talking to relayed a story to me from a guy who came into his store a couple of weeks ago and bought a spa from him. Last year, this customer went around to 4 or 5 dealers (didn't make it into this guy's store) looking for a hot tub. All of them bashed each other saying everything else was junk. The guy concluded that either it all must be junk or all the dealers he talked to were less than honest with him. He bought a Harley instead. This year, he decided to look around again because he did really want a tub. He went into my dealer's store and because they sold their product on its merits and didn't bash the competition he bought an $8000 tub on the spot.
The Hot Tub Council's efforts for a combined hot tub advertising program like that found in the boating and RVing industries are a perfect example. The HTC only wanted $15000 from each spa manufacturer and most of them balked because they didn't want to work together. It's sad. Too many people in this industry is afraid someone else might sell something too. We aren't going anywhere as an industry until that sentiment changes IMHO.
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::) that's one of the most iresponsilbe posts I've seen around here for a while.
Soooo Kialda, just how long has it been since you stopped beating your wife?
Sorry I have been tied up for a couple of days. This extreme cold weather has made every service call an emergency and as we know our customers come first. I was going to respond to this topic about the changes and then I took a break and re-read this thread and I couldn't believe this post that was placed by someone.
Some of us have been in this industry for a long time - 30 or more years, you can call us fossils or moss backs, I guess we have a lot of information that is maybe good or at times maybe more information than anyone needs to know. The one thing I do know is that most of us helped build this industry from the ground up. Although this is a forum we come here at times to get away from the daily trials that we all need to go through. I have spent the past six months watching manufacturers go down, industry reps losing their jobs, retailers lose their businesses, homes and everything that they have worked for over the years. It breaks my heart to see an industry that we have all worked so hard for to build being destoryed.
Thinking twice I don't think that there is anything I can say even if it is truthful, even if it is from experience, that would be productive or helpful to our industry concerning this thread.
But just when you think that the people in this industry be that manufacturers, reps, salespeople and business owners are your brothers someone has to come out with a personal attack like I have read above.
My original comment was don't feed the bears. Although we have gone beyond feeding the bear to poking it with a stick and waving the 44 mag in the air, my intent is not to hurt anything that has to do with making our industry survive and prosper. Unfortunately now I am faced with a dilemna should I deal with the childish comments and take the chance of hurting a good company in our industry or step aside.
I will think about it as I go beat my wife again tonight.
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Sorry I have been tied up for a couple of days. This extreme cold weather has made every service call an emergency and as we know our customers come first. I was going to respond to this topic about the changes and then I took a break and re-read this thread and I couldn't believe this post that was placed by someone.
Some of us have been in this industry for a long time - 30 or more years, you can call us fossils or moss backs, I guess we have a lot of information that is maybe good or at times maybe more information than anyone needs to know. The one thing I do know is that most of us helped build this industry from the ground up. Although this is a forum we come here at times to get away from the daily trials that we all need to go through. I have spent the past six months watching manufacturers go down, industry reps losing their jobs, retailers lose their businesses, homes and everything that they have worked for over the years. It breaks my heart to see an industry that we have all worked so hard for to build being destoryed.
Thinking twice I don't think that there is anything I can say even if it is truthful, even if it is from experience, that would be productive or helpful to our industry concerning this thread.
But just when you think that the people in this industry be that manufacturers, reps, salespeople and business owners are your brothers someone has to come out with a personal attack like I have read above.
My original comment was don't feed the bears. Although we have gone beyond feeding the bear to poking it with a stick and waving the 44 mag in the air, my intent is not to hurt anything that has to do with making our industry survive and prosper. Unfortunately now I am faced with a dilemna should I deal with the childish comments and take the chance of hurting a good company in our industry or step aside.
I will think about it as I go beat my wife again tonight.
Drewstar does have a way with words doesn’t he, especially when you are a newbie to the place! ;)
But, the fact of the matter is that you came on here and specifically said that HS has a filtration problem with no factual backing behind it. What did you expect people to say?? :-? You cant just walk into some party where you don’t know anyone, run in and throw the first punch, and then go run and hide when people call you out.
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Drewstar does have a way with words doesn’t he, especially when you are a newbie to the place! ;)
But, the fact of the matter is that you came on here and specifically said that HS has a filtration problem with no factual backing behind it. What did you expect people to say?? :-? You cant just walk into some party where you don’t know anyone, run in and throw the first punch, and then go run and hide when people call you out.
I never hide, I just work for a living... If you or anyone wants to talk spas, I am there.
So fine, I am ready to dance... If You are a HS dealer or a HS guy and you would like me to post my feelings I will go forward.
Please, if we go forward from here I dont want an Arctic or Sundance guy just hoping to hurt HS come on, I said after thinking it was not in our best interest, but I will if that is what you feel is best.
Tell me who you are and the relation you have to HS and I will go on...
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I never hide, I just work for a living... If you or anyone wants to talk spas, I am there.
So fine, I am ready to dance... If You are a HS dealer or a HS guy and you would like me to post my feelings I will go forward.
Please, if we go forward from here I dont want an Arctic or Sundance guy just hoping to hurt HS come on, I said after thinking it was not in our best interest, but I will if that is what you feel is best.
Tell me who you are and the relation you have to HS and I will go on...
You're still implying Hot Spring has a filtration problem. You are now just dancing around it. If you know something, then say it, and let the Hot Spring dealers, employees, consumers and others like me who are just in the industry in general defend it. I've been around a long time, too. I've never heard of Hot Spring having a filtration issue.
If you don't have facts, and you aren't trying to hurt Hot Spring, then come out and say you made a mistake posting that.
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Term,
Always enjoy your posts. Would you be kind enough to elaborate?
Thanks,
Thank you. I apologize for not replying sooner, but we had two home shows going on this week along with about a half dozen other hot projects. Things are hopping.
We should have my 2009 Vanguard up and running on Wednesday. I'll give it a review and post some pics as soon as I can.
In the meantime, I'm really anxious to find out what dire problems have arisen with our filtration system! I have to admit that it has taken me completely off guard and the sooner I know what it is, the sooner I can demand that it be corrected.
BTW, some Mississippi spa cowboys selling Premium Leisure Spas at the Shreveport show informed my boss that HotSpring has been sold to a no-name company and that means they are in "serious financial trouble". When my boss asked them for the name of the company, he was told that it was some outfit called "Watkins"............................................... ::).
He told them they oughta get back in their DeLorean and put it in reverse.
See ya'll later....
Term
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In talking with a couple of friends that are associated with Hot Spring, I've found out what the "new" thing that is being introduced.
Sounds pretty cool, but I'll have to hear more about it. They are introducing a resin (plastic) frame. They are doing away with the wood in the frame and moving to this. It is a "snap-together" frame that will reduce labor time in building their spas, plus give them something that is totally impervious to rot. From my memory, this is a first in the industry. I'm not familiar with anyone doing this.
Time will tell if this is a good move, but it certainly sounds like a good idea to me.
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Sorry I have been tied up for a couple of days. This extreme cold weather has made every service call an emergency and as we know our customers come first. I was going to respond to this topic about the changes and then I took a break and re-read this thread and I couldn't believe this post that was placed by someone.
Some of us have been in this industry for a long time - 30 or more years, you can call us fossils or moss backs, I guess we have a lot of information that is maybe good or at times maybe more information than anyone needs to know. The one thing I do know is that most of us helped build this industry from the ground up. Although this is a forum we come here at times to get away from the daily trials that we all need to go through. I have spent the past six months watching manufacturers go down, industry reps losing their jobs, retailers lose their businesses, homes and everything that they have worked for over the years. It breaks my heart to see an industry that we have all worked so hard for to build being destoryed.
Thinking twice I don't think that there is anything I can say even if it is truthful, even if it is from experience, that would be productive or helpful to our industry concerning this thread.
But just when you think that the people in this industry be that manufacturers, reps, salespeople and business owners are your brothers someone has to come out with a personal attack like I have read above.
My original comment was don't feed the bears. Although we have gone beyond feeding the bear to poking it with a stick and waving the 44 mag in the air, my intent is not to hurt anything that has to do with making our industry survive and prosper. Unfortunately now I am faced with a dilemna should I deal with the childish comments and take the chance of hurting a good company in our industry or step aside.
I will think about it as I go beat my wife again tonight.
I beg your pardon. You made the comment concerning a manufacturer’s filtration with a direct implication that they had a problem, but you offered no other information. That's an irresponsible post. (And that's putting it politely)
I say retract and apologize, or provide information and elaborate so that we can have an intelligent discussion about it. Not that drivel you posted above.
As far as beating your wife? It wasn't a childish comment. It wasn't an attack. It was a satirical comment pointing directly back at the idiocy of your post. The phrase "beating your wife” refers to the fallacy of the loaded question. (or in this case your loaded post)
I appologize if you didnt' understand and would like to publically announce to the community that you no longer beat your wife.
;D http://www.fallacyfiles.org/loadques.html
http://ksuweb.kennesaw.edu/~shagin/logfal-distract-loadquest.htm
http://info-pollution.com/complex.htm
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In talking with a couple of friends that are associated with Hot Spring, I've found out what the "new" thing that is being introduced.
Sounds pretty cool, but I'll have to hear more about it. They are introducing a resin (plastic) frame. They are doing away with the wood in the frame and moving to this. It is a "snap-together" frame that will reduce labor time in building their spas, plus give them something that is totally impervious to rot. From my memory, this is a first in the industry. I'm not familiar with anyone doing this.
Time will tell if this is a good move, but it certainly sounds like a good idea to me.
Actually, Arctic has been doing this for a couple years on their Synthetic cabinets. They use a fiberglass resin instead of a wood frame. They attach their synthetic cabinet to the resin frame. Its a very impressive way of building the spa. It is an extremely impressive structure that will literally last forever.
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Okay, so I didn't know that. I guess Hot Spring isn't first on this one.
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I think Bullfrog has been doing a resin structure for awhile.
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We received our new Vanguard and there were no changes made, so I have nothing further to add.
When we receive something different, then I will have something to report.
Term
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...As far as beating your wife? It wasn't a childish comment. It wasn't an attack. It was a satirical comment pointing directly back at the idiocy of your post. The phrase "beating your wife” refers to the fallacy of the loaded question. (or in this case your loaded post)
I appologize if you didnt' understand and would like to publically announce to the community that you no longer beat your wife....
Using a topic like abuse, to make a point... is neither funny, or helpful. Calling it satire, doesn't make it fair game in polite conversation.
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Using a topic like abuse, to make a point... is neither funny, or helpful. Calling it satire, doesn't make it fair game in polite conversation.
Gadfly,
I don't have any desire to go down this rabbit hole with you, but I would ask you to read the links I provided, as they illustrate that the question "have you stopped beating your wife?" as a very common place, cliche'd example of a loaded question. nothing more, nothing less. If you are under the impression, that I was calling Kialda a wife beater then you have not followed the conversation or read the links I provided that very cleary identify the meaning behind the phrase.
Perhaps I could have used another phrase? I am sure there is more than one way to skin this cat (and Gadfly and Kialda, please don't assume I am advocating animal abuse, once again, I am turning a phrase to illustrate a point).
And that point still stands. Kialda, please elaborate you statement about HS filtration, or shall we assume you are simply trolling? ::)
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Gadfly,
I don't have any desire to go down this rabbit hole with you....
And that point still stands. Kialda, please elaborate you statement about HS filtration, or shall we assume you are simply trolling?
Just because I disagree with your debate style, doesn't mean I do not understand your posts... I just find your choice of phrase offensive. Why would Kailda waste his time to get into a pissing contest with an angry little man? I understand that you are grateful that Watkins gave you a tub, and that you have friends that sell Hot Spring, so you want to defend them... but they can hold their own. If you were looking for information, not picking a fight... we might have had a chance of finding out what Kialda was talking about. Instead this is a "dead horse", and Hot Spring is left with a statement about their filtration, that is unresolved. Was that you goal?
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And that point still stands. Kialda, please elaborate you statement about HS filtration, or shall we assume you are simply trolling? ::)
I dont think we will ever see Kialda on here again. He works a living, remember! ::) ;D
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It really isn't productive for us to scare anyone away from the forum. While the comment might have been antagonistic and may have made Kialda appear to want to stir the pot, I am sure he has positive information to share with the forum. Everyone makes mistakes and although we don't know his motives, there is always something positive that can result.
It sounds like he has alot of experience and would definately be an asset to folks coming here for information. He just needs to back what he says with facts.
So Kialda, if you are checking in..here is your ticket to redemption...We arent' really all that tough...just like to keep things on the up and up. ;)
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Just because I disagree with your debate style, doesn't mean I do not understand your posts... I just find your choice of phrase offensive. Why would Kailda waste his time to get into a pissing contest with an angry little man? I understand that you are grateful that Watkins gave you a tub, and that you have friends that sell Hot Spring, so you want to defend them... but they can hold their own. If you were looking for information, not picking a fight... we might have had a chance of finding out what Kialda was talking about. Instead this is a "dead horse", and Hot Spring is left with a statement about their filtration, that is unresolved. Was that you goal?
sigh -
I honestly don't know how else to ask for someone to please explain thier post any clearer than I did.
My goals are:
1) To point out Kialda's loaded post, and the fallacy of the negative comment he made.
2) Ask Kialda to elaborate on his post
If anyone is making this a dead horse, it's posts such as yours stating how cliche's personaly upset you.
let's stay on topic. if you have other concerns feel free to PM me. but let's not drag the post down with it.
If the questiond does remain unanswered, depsite what you claim, it will because Kialda did not answer the requests for clarification. (which has been made several times by several people). The fact that you don't care for my posts does not take kialada off the hook for his iresponsible post.
Once again, Kialda will you explian what filtration issues you belive HS has?
I think it's time to call Shenanigans on these guys. ;D
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We received our new Vanguard and there were no changes made, so I have nothing further to add.
When we receive something different, then I will have something to report.
Term
bummer. what color combo did you order. somebody will be getting a great deal on that one.
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bummer. what color combo did you order. somebody will be getting a great deal on that one.
It was a sterling marble/espresso and it is being delivered today to a customer in Shreveport.
Term
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I just read through the entire thread. Did we get through a discussion about HS filtration without Termy and his diagram of "little swimmers? ;)
I'm just back from a stint in the army serving under General Apathy. I'm glad to see Bonniebelle is on top of this one.
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Well, we finally got a 2009 HotSpring Vanguard in yesterday (Friday) and I had high hopes of getting it put in my showroom next week, doing a review, and posting pictures. However, our Shreveport store manager sold it to someone yesterday evening, so I guess I'll have to wait ANOTHER couple of weeks until we get the next truck in. ::)
On the positive side, we have had our biggest January and February sales months in our 24 years of operation. We are very thankful for these sales in this type of economic environment. Hope all my fellow dealers are starting to see some activity as well.
Busy, busy around here....got some big changes coming soon.
Have a great weekend everyone!
Terminator
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I went over to the Tyler store to pick up some supplies and the 2009 Vanguard was on the floor waiting for delivery, so I took a few pics:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC06122.jpg)
New LCD control panel. It controls all functions of the spa as well as the entertainment systems. Gives actual water temperature, a feature many folks have requested. The spas still have an inside control panel as well:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC06121.jpg)
The HotSpring logo lights up to indicate power/temperature ready:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC06120.jpg)
New levers that make it easy for people with arthritis or girlie wrists to adjust the jet strength:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC06123.jpg)
We're ordering our 3rd truckload of the year this week, so I plan on getting a Vanguard set up in my mood room and will show you guys the new lighting system.
Terminator
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I just got a new Grandee CC model and a Vista, but even as they sat on the trailer in the warehouse, I sold the Grandee and an Aventine to a customer who bought a "Home Spa" many years ago, and has kept it running all along.
The Vista should be on our showroom floor tomorrow. I'll see if it has the new stuff, if so I'll try to snap a few pics.
The Grandee will be craned in as soon as the deck structure is built for it - they are setting it down in a deck on the beach. The house is all brand new, I'll definitely want to get some pics of the whole deal.
8-)
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Vista doesn't have the new stuff yet. Just Vanguard and Aria so far.
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Vista doesn't have the new stuff yet. Just Vanguard and Aria so far.
You are right. Darn it! I moved the Vista into the store this morning, all excited to see if it had any of the changes. I ripped off the space-shuttle quality wrapping/padding and got ready to drink in the all the new stuff - and it is still the good-looking, well-built spa of 2008.
Sigh ---
Oh well. I missed the dealer meeting this year, I really need to get on the dealer web site and see what's up!!
8-)
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I'll need MPS soon, I'll stop in the local dealer and see if they have a new Vanguard up yet. If I was replacing now, It would be a top contender.
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You are right. Darn it! I moved the Vista into the store this morning, all excited to see if it had any of the changes. I ripped off the space-shuttle quality wrapping/padding and got ready to drink in the all the new stuff - and it is still the good-looking, well-built spa of 2008.
Sigh ---
Oh well. I missed the dealer meeting this year, I really need to get on the dealer web site and see what's up!!
8-)
We missed you in SF.
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Vista doesn't have the new stuff yet. Just Vanguard and Aria so far.
So basically the Vanguard and Aria are newly redesigned for this year, and the Vista is not? And we're not sure about the other models?
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We missed you in SF.
Thanks, that's very nice to say. A funeral came up - Friend of the family. :'(
8-)
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So basically the Vanguard and Aria are newly redesigned for this year, and the Vista is not? And we're not sure about the other models?
All Hot Spring models are being updated. The 1st 2 models, Aria and Vanguard, are being rolled out 1st. All other models to be rolled out throughout the year.
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The geek in me wishes I would have waited a year to get an "updated" HotSpring Sovereign, but I've made enough purchases in my life to know that newer is not always better - particularly when it comes to automobiles. The first year of a new design often has bugs that are worked out over time. When I bought my 2008 Infiniti a couple of months ago, it was tempting to buy the 2009 model sitting right beside it that had an all-new 7-speed automatic transmission and some major engine revisions. However, I knew the "old" engine and 5-speed automatic had proven reliable, so ultimately I feel comfortable with my purchase.
Of course, not like I'm going to even think about trading in my 2008 Sovereign for a LONG time, but it'll be interesting to learn about the updates.
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Good news! We just got our 4th truckload in and I'll have a new HS Vanguard up and running in the mood room tomorrow. I'll get some pics of the new lighting and houdrelles and post them in the next couple of days.
Terminator
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For your enjoyment (sorry about the poor quality...hope you like the music, though!):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nuUDgWk8bg
I have to say that I'm not easily impressed by much of anything nowadays, but I have to tip my hat to Watkins on the changes they've made. These spas are absolutely beautiful, functional, and very rugged. They are the most outstanding spas I've seen to date.
Terminator
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In talking with a couple of friends that are associated with Hot Spring, I've found out what the "new" thing that is being introduced.
Sounds pretty cool, but I'll have to hear more about it. They are introducing a resin (plastic) frame. They are doing away with the wood in the frame and moving to this. It is a "snap-together" frame that will reduce labor time in building their spas, plus give them something that is totally impervious to rot. From my memory, this is a first in the industry. I'm not familiar with anyone doing this.
Time will tell if this is a good move, but it certainly sounds like a good idea to me.
I just have to pipe up here and defend a bit. At Sunrise Spas, and yes, I don't think most of you guys are familiar with our product, some of you yes.
But we introduced our Paragon line in 2001, this I believe is the first spa on the market to have this resin structure that snaps the underside of the lip and as well the floor, and yes it does reduce production time, huge, it goes together like lego, but the structure of the tub is much stronger then wood or metal, it's built like a tank.
Then Bullfrog came out with a similar version. We carry most of the patents pending on this process from day one, but some just change it a bit and get away with it, no sense in fighting it, we all do it to make the best product. Especially if it works.
As for all the nasty rants, up here in Canada things are not as bad but bad enough.
So as all hot tub professionals, I think it is the most important thing here on this forum, to promote hot tubbing, we will all get a piece of the pie, promote your brand we are selling and do not knock your compition, let them do that and you will sell more tubs in the long run and still be around.
Cheers
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For your enjoyment (sorry about the poor quality...hope you like the music, though!):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nuUDgWk8bg
I have to say that I'm not easily impressed by much of anything nowadays, but I have to tip my hat to Watkins on the changes they've made. These spas are absolutely beautiful, functional, and very rugged. They are the most outstanding spas I've seen to date.
Terminator
Nice lookin' spa East Tex. Thanks for the vid.
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I generally dislike most water features in spas, but that backlit waterfall along the side is pretty neat. It looks nice, doesn't appear to splash, and doesn't take up valuable seat space.
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Using a topic like abuse, to make a point... is neither funny, or helpful. Calling it satire, doesn't make it fair game in polite conversation.
No kidding. Drewstar's being a jerk again.
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Looks really good Term. The light really adds to the Soothing Spring. It needed something more than just that blue light.
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The Soothing Stream water feature in my Sovereign appeared to be a joke at first. It pales in comparison to the exciting waterfalls and shooting streams of water in other models. However, I've grown more appreciative of it. First, it works off the circ pump so the jets don't have to be on. Second, it doesn't intrude inside the tub. Third, it actually provides a little bit of flowing water sound on a quiet evening.
I DO like the addition of the color LCD display on the '09 Vanguard along with the ability to display actual water temperature. I read a post showing which jumper to change to enable actual water temp on my '08 Sov, but the instructions didn't match the actual jumper configuration inside my IQ 2020, so I left it alone.
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Newbie thread highjack alert!
My wife and I have wet tested and really like the 2008 H. S. Vanguard. The local dealer has quoted us $8400 delivered.
?
1.) Price? Does it sound reasonable?
2.) What are the features of the 09 Vanguard vs the 08 and are they more than just cosmetic?
Thanks!
Atom
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1.) Price? Does it sound reasonable?
Prices do vary by region so there is no set number as the "average" though you can certainly get some good feedback here but to get a better answer you need to supply more info. What does that include? Lifter? Any chems? Steps?...
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Prices do vary by region so there is no set number as the "average" though you can certainly get some good feedback here but to get a better answer you need to supply more info. What does that include? Lifter? Any chems? Steps?...
We live in MA and would be in the North East region.
Includes Tub, cover with lifter, chemical start kit,hose filter, and set up. Set up does not include electric install, but the box needed for install.
The dealer wants $150 for the steps and I think my handy buddy will build me a set for free.(really a soak for steps exchange)
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For your enjoyment (sorry about the poor quality...hope you like the music, though!):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nuUDgWk8bg
I have to say that I'm not easily impressed by much of anything nowadays, but I have to tip my hat to Watkins on the changes they've made. These spas are absolutely beautiful, functional, and very rugged. They are the most outstanding spas I've seen to date.
Terminator
Wish you sold in my area East_TX_Spa. I called our local Santa Cruz Ca county HS store today to inquire so I could consider a purchase. Person answering the phone was polite but didn't seem interested. I asked if they had the 2009 Vanguard model you mentioned and his comments were " we don't and won't probably until we get sell the old version of our Vanguard"..... pause, no response.... So I asked do you have one at your SJ store I could look at?... "Nope, we give that store our inventory"..... pause, no response.... I asked do you know how much the new 2009 base model would run " Nope, we don't have any information" .... pause no response or trying to engage me in a sales conversation. I guess their store has plenty of sales, their tank is 'full' I wasn't rude, surprised at the lack of interest. Guess I'll go back and consider the other Spa Company I was considering/comparing to HS.
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Wish you sold in my area East_TX_Spa. I called our local Santa Cruz Ca county HS store today to inquire so I could consider a purchase. Person answering the phone was polite but didn't seem interested. I asked if they had the 2009 Vanguard model you mentioned and his comments were " we don't and won't probably until we get sell the old version of our Vanguard"..... pause, no response.... So I asked do you have one at your SJ store I could look at?... "Nope, we give that store our inventory"..... pause, no response.... I asked do you know how much the new 2009 base model would run " Nope, we don't have any information" .... pause no response or trying to engage me in a sales conversation. I guess their store has plenty of sales, their tank is 'full' I wasn't rude, surprised at the lack of interest. Guess I'll go back and consider the other Spa Company I was considering/comparing to HS.
I know the owners of that store. I am surprised by that story. Of course anyone can have a bad experience. I PMed TrueGrit asking him if I could help. Haven't heard back yet. :-?
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Hi just logged in tonight, sorry the PM did not get to me (email?). Thanks for the offer to help. I tried to reply to the PM but I think I may need more posts (5?) I received an error when I tired.
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Thank you, True Grit, I appreciate your compliment. I wish you were in our territory as well, but you are in far, far west Texas and we just can't effectively service all the way out to the Pacific....at this time. ;)
Updated East Texas Spa/ HotSpring Spas of Shreveport E-Brochure with Aria and Vanguard specs:
http://www.ilovemyspa.com/pages/brochures
Term
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Is the e-Brochure something y'all did or that Watkins provided for dealer websites? I haven't seen that feature on their website. I think it is a great idea.
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Little ol' me took the initiative and did it. I suggested that the mother ship take a look at doing this format for their brochures and owner's manuals, but have seen no response thus far.
Term
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Well, I think that maybe they ought to look at what y'all do a little more often. Seems to me y'all keep selling spas in good numbers even when things are slowing down. I'm sure y'all sell more spas than any other Hot Spring dealer in Texas or any surrounding state.
Maybe they just want the consumer to still order the brochure and are afraid if they look at it online, their lead info wont' be captured.
You did a great job on it.
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Wish you sold in my area East_TX_Spa. I called our local Santa Cruz Ca county HS store today to inquire so I could consider a purchase. Person answering the phone was polite but didn't seem interested. I asked if they had the 2009 Vanguard model . I guess their store has plenty of sales, their tank is 'full' I wasn't rude, surprised at the lack of interest. Guess I'll go back and consider the other Spa Company I was considering/comparing to HS.
:-[This is an Open Apology to TrueGrit as I am the Santa Cruz store. I have been contacted by a few of you who read this and now have a chance to say to everyone... what a great lesson this was. Unfortunately the employee (not a sales person) who answered the phone handled this inquiry all wrong. Since we had just put the 2009 Vanguard (pre-revision) on the floor, he wrongly assumed we did not have up to date pricing for the newest revision.
And his lack of customer skills was inexcusable.
I have contacted True Grit and offered to assist him and have had a very serious conversation with this employee. I totally accept this as my failure to properly train. A valuable lesson. Personality can trump training...
And for TrueGrit, I say don't let this lapse of enthusiasm deter you from getting a wonderful spa. While it is true that I don't yet have this model it is on the way!
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Hi Spalady,
Apology accepted and confess I have been on both sides and understand. It was great meeting you in person today. We appreciated the time you spent showing us the models you have available and options we have if we decide to order another model. After visiting the Santa Cruz store and meeting you we would definitely recommend your business to anyone that asked.
Bridge has been repaired and open for business. 8-) Thanks for the emails too!
Kind regards,
True Grit
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I believe is the first spa on the market to have this resin structure ... We carry most of the patents pending on this process from day one, but some just change it a bit and get away with it...
Hey, Chris - I'd be curious to see that resin snap-together construction - it's not shown on the Sunrise site that I could find. All that is shown there is a powder-coated steel frame. Did I miss it?
Every good product has its imitators - "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery." FWIW, there is no patent violation if the new or changed invention is different enough that it doesn't legally infringe on a prior patent (that is, dissimilar enough that no one would confuse the new invention with the old). You can't just "change it a bit" - the change has to be substantive. If it's not, then yes, they're ripping you off....
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But we introduced our Paragon line in 2001, this I believe is the first spa on the market to have this resin structure that snaps the underside of the lip and as well the floor, and yes it does reduce production time, huge, it goes together like lego, but the structure of the tub is much stronger then wood or metal, it's built like a tank.
Then Bullfrog came out with a similar version. We carry most of the patents pending on this process from day one, but some just change it a bit and get away with it, no sense in fighting it, we all do it to make the best product. Especially if it works.
Just curious, why you would have patents pending from 2001? If someone has "stolen" your idea, its valuable, otherwise why go through all of the cost and effort to patent? Patents are very costly, and valuable. The only reason to pursue one is to secure your intelectual property, so I am confused when you say there is no sense in fighing it.
I did not see any tubs on your site showing the plastic frame, just powder coated steel. Why are you not producing any with the plastic frame?
If I held a patent and people were copying my work without compensation, I would file a complaint and seek financial recovery and either a production agreement paying me for the product, or a cease order.
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Wireless TV.
Order it now.
8-)
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Wireless TV.
Order it now.
8-)
This kind of wireless tv?
http://www.devaderspools.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=210&Itemid=100104
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This kind of wireless tv?
No - factory option.
8-)
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It is a factory option, works quite well too!
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Well, sorry. I guess both of our factories need to update their web sites ;D
8-)