Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Hillbilly Hot Tub on December 08, 2008, 01:09:54 pm
-
We just received a letter from the State of CT that is telling us that as of January 1st, tubs sold into CT must have passed the CEC testing.
Any dealers out there that this is going to effect since there is only like 15 tub makers on the list?
While on this subject, anyone know how places like costco and the internet can sell tubs into these states without being complient?
-
It is my understanding that even the big-box retailers will not be able to sell tubs which are not compliant. You simply will not be able to sell non-compliant tubs into the states which require it.
I have yet to hear from one of my suppliers about this, but I do know that Watkins has it handled.
8-)
-
Some day I hope there will be independent certified testing rather than the current self reported results going to CEC but this is a great first step to getting rid of some of the poorly insulated products out there.
I know some sales people will now say "our spa is well insulated because we have CEC certification" but we're still at the point where manufacturers can report what they feel is correct or what they feel is in tehir best interest. Based on how a few have been known to run their business I'm not ready to give the benefit of the doubt on a few brands and I scratch my head on how they're passing.
As far as some of the current mass merchant tubs go, they may have to transpose a few numbers before they send their results to the CEC.
-
I think if it were easy to cheat the CEC, there would be many more tubs on the list, so I am fairly confident with the list, bearing in mind the testing is done at 60 degrees and with no spa use. But this is a dead horse issue.
I was wondering as the states start passing these laws how dealers will fair. We may all have closer compitition as these dealers pull on the lines that have passed, will this be a good or bad thing?
-
I think if it were easy to cheat the CEC, there would be many more tubs on the list, so I am fairly confident with the list, bearing in mind the testing is done at 60 degrees and with no spa use. But this is a dead horse issue.
I think most people assume these spas are sent out to the CEC for testing but that's not the case. To be UL certified that may be the case but this is still a step back. The reality is manufacturers either test in house or contract with someone for testing and then send their results to the CEC. I’m not sure who’s doing which.
I am certainly not saying you can't trust anyone and the fact that not everyone is yet on the list suggests some are working to make theirs compliant but I personally am not ready to take “CEC certified” to simply mean that spa is going to be energy efficient. In the end it’s a great first step.
-
Meh, the government shouldn't be telling companies how energy efficient their products need to be. If a company wants to skimp on the insulation and sell a very cheap spa, why should the government tell them they cannot? Is the monitoring of hot tubs really where tax dollars should be spent?
-
Meh, the government shouldn't be telling companies how energy efficient their products need to be. If a company wants to skimp on the insulation and sell a very cheap spa, why should the government tell them they cannot? Is the monitoring of hot tubs really where tax dollars should be spent?
California has to provide energy for millions of people. This CEC complians they started is their way to try to rein in some of the poorly insulated products out there in the same way they push compact fluorescent lighting, solar panels and other products. It’s in everyone's best interest, government and people.
-
This CEC complians they started is their way to try to rein in some of the poorly insulated products out there in the same way they push compact fluorescent lighting, solar panels and other products. It’s in everyone's best interest, government and people.
Al Gore wannabe.
-
California has to provide energy for millions of people. This CEC complians they started is their way to try to rein in some of the poorly insulated products out there in the same way they push compact fluorescent lighting, solar panels and other products. It’s in everyone's best interest, government and people.
How about make more energy available? There is obviously a market for it.
-
How about make more energy available? There is obviously a market for it.
In order it shuld be reduce, reuse, recycle. Making more energy isn't the first line of defense.
If I wanted better gas mileage with a car I'd look to design it with a better engine, lighten the frame, etc. to improve the MPG before I'd put in a bigger gas tank!!
-
This CEC complians they started is their way to try to rein in some of the poorly insulated products out there in the same way they push compact fluorescent lighting, solar panels and other products. It’s in everyone's best interest, government and people.
Al Gore wannabe.
;D Al needs to reduce himself!!!
-
California Energy Commission’s Title 20 as compared to submarine warfare in the First World War
During the 1st World War the Germans introduced a new type of combat warfare with its use of Submarines.
The USA and her allies were outraged at such unconventional weaponry. At the time, the notion of sneaking up on ones enemies and quietly and quickly destroying them was considered barbaric. It was not how gentlemen conducted battle.
Yet in World War II, the USA had the largest submarine fleet in the world.
So, you may wonder, why the outrage during the 1st world war, yet enthusiasm during the second.
Simple, we were outraged in WW1 because the Germans had the technology and we didn’t!
My hunch is that the spa people who are the farthest from CEC Title certification are the ones who are complaining the loudest about the heavy handed tactics of the government.
Those spa companies that got in front of this and got it done seem to be ok with the standards.
Just my humble opinion.
-
My hunch is that the spa people who are the farthest from CEC Title certification are the ones who are complaining the loudest about the heavy handed tactics of the government.
Those spa companies that got in front of this and got it done seem to be ok with the standards.
Just my humble opinion.
I was wondering where the submarine analogy was going but you brought it home.
I agree that this standard is a great start and you're right, this was obviously welcomed by those who were already building them the right way. I just hope some day the testing is strictly monitored because I've seen the list of companies who are compliant and I scratch my head at a couple of them but I'm sure others are making changes to get where they need to be.
-
In order it shuld be reduce, reuse, recycle. Making more energy isn't the first line of defense.
If I wanted better gas mileage with a car I'd look to design it with a better engine, lighten the frame, etc. to improve the MPG before I'd put in a bigger gas tank!!
The government should not be forcing people to reduce/reuse/recycle.
As far as the Submarine analogy, no one was FORCING the USA to use submarines. The USA had to adapt. Just like the market should be able to adapt. If we have the means to make more power, why shouldn't we use it? Allow the power company to expand and create more jobs.
It’s in everyone's best interest, government and people.
So wouldn't banning tobacco and alcohol. Good luck with that one. ;)
This is only going to make it harder and harder for a new spa company to begin. And it will also increase the price on those that didn't meet the standards as they will be forced to reengineer their product.
How many spas has the government ever produced?
How many cars has the government ever produced?
When the government actually creates a product, I will take into consideration how they feel a product should be made.
-
The government should not be forcing people to reduce/reuse/recycle.
That thinking isn't far from the government shouldn't force people to wear seat belts and the government shouldn't mandate certain MPG standards on autos and the government shouldn't force pollution standards and the government shouldn't collect taxes...
This is only going to make it harder and harder for a new spa company to begin. And it will also increase the price on those that didn't meet the standards as they will be forced to reengineer their product.
How many spas has the government ever produced?
How many cars has the government ever produced?
When the government actually creates a product, I will take into consideration how they feel a product should be made.
Make it harder for new spa companies and increase the prices for spas made by current companies?
Spas should ALREADY be meeting these standards or at least be close. Maybe a couple minor tweaks will be needed or maybe absolutely nothing will be needed because the CEC standard is not a tough one from what I'm told. Any spa that has to make wholesale changes to meet these standards and has to raise prices was probably an energy pig in the first place. The last thing the consumer needs in the continued practice of a spa company saving $ by skimping on insulation and promising at the point of sale that their insulation method is great (and it has a fancy name too).
-
You are correct. The government should not be forcing cetain MPG standards on cars. And the government is collecting too many taxes. Now you want them to collect more taxes to pay for people to make sure hot tubs don't use a certain amount of electricity. That is not what the founding fathers intended when they wrote up the constitution.
Tell me where in the constitution it says that the government should step in and regulate an industry so that they make better products.
Consumers will dictate the market. If consumers care what kind of MPG they get in a car, then they will buy on that issue. If, as a consumer, I want to buy a car with 500 hp that gets 8 mpg, I should not be penalized for being able to afford it. And a company should not be penalized for making it available.
Any spa that has to make wholesale changes to meet these standards and has to raise prices was probably an energy pig in the first place. The last thing the consumer needs in the continued practice of a spa company saving $ by skimping on insulation and promising at the point of sale that their insulation method is great (and it has a fancy name too).
That is not an issue for the government to decide. That is an issue for the market to decide. There is a market for a < $3000 spa. Do you really think those spas could meet these energy standards and still keep a low price? I doubt it.
Why doesn't the government just start building spas and cars? They obviously seem to know what the consumers want.
-
Serjical,
Lets just say that you and I have very different views and I couldn't disagree with your points more!!! Hooray for this first step by the CEC, it was overdue.
It certainly won't mean that all CEC rated spas are equally efficient but its a start!!! Maybe now we'll have less issues of people buying spas where the salesperson tells them "its well insulated" and give it some name like "Kelvin Insulation!" but they find out after the fact its an energy pig.
I see this as a win for consumers and if the price goes up $100 for a spa they'll get it back in energy savings in no time. For those manufacturers who may have to make wholesale changes just to get to the minimum requirements I question why their spas were so far off in the first place.
-
... Consumers will dictate the market. If consumers care what kind of MPG they get in a car, then they will buy on that issue. If, as a consumer, I want to buy a car with 500 hp that gets 8 mpg, I should not be penalized for being able to afford it. And a company should not be penalized for making it available. That is not an issue for the government to decide. That is an issue for the market to decide...
I thought that $4 gas, the housing crisis, stock prices, unemployment, golden parachutes, etc has made it pretty clear that the market needs a little help. The current administration, the next, and even the challenger agreed that leaving "the Market to decide" failed. Reasonable regulation helps, but the question is where is the line.
-
I thought that $4 gas, the housing crisis, stock prices, unemployment, golden parachutes, etc has made it pretty clear that the market needs a little help. The current administration, the next, and even the challenger agreed that leaving "the Market to decide" failed. Reasonable regulation helps, but the question is where is the line.
Funny, I see those things as the reasons why governmet should stay out of the market.
The market would not have decided to give out loans to people that didn't deserve them. CRA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act) The government essentially forced them to.
When the supply of oil cannot be increased, and there is a huge demand (China; Diesel competing for the same oil because of the ultra low sulfur), the price will go up.
The stock market is really a place to invest discretionary income into companies that you think will make a profit. It is a gamble. Some people win, some people lose.
The only way government can help unemployment is by making it easier for businesses to remain in business. This means lowering the corporate tax rate and removing many of the needless regulations on many industries. Government does not create jobs. It only makes it easier/harder for companies to create/keep them.
-
This is a loop, that I tired of before the election, was even over. I'll let you have the last word, if you want to keep hitting that horse. The country decided to try a different way, so we'll see where it ends up.
-
Wow SerjicalStrike....I couldn't agree with you more.
You need to join the political message board I frequent.
http://debategate.com/new3dhs/index.php?board=1.0
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y273/ItsZep/Politics/339016021v2147483647_350x350_Front.jpg)