Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: bosco0633 on August 24, 2008, 03:08:44 pm
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Well I just went out to start cleaning the tub, and the pump kicks on and I can hear a loud humming then it shut off. I opened the tub cover and FLO is on the screen. then that error is back again 354.
So I open the cabinet and water is leaking from the new pump and it feels like it is 1000 degrees and smells likes it is burning in the cabinet.
The water is now dirty as well so looks like it has not been working right from the get go.
Now the screen just says HL on it and wont turn on.
Looks like I am going to have to pay for another gas charge. Oh my God!!!!!!!!!
Im going to lose it.
Tom help me out please!!!!!
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Bosco,
Whatever happens, a gas charge should not apply in this case. The dealer came out and the problem wasn't fixed. I don't know how spa dealers do business but I can tell you I have had both large and small companies eat travel and additional labor charges because the tech didn't get it right the first time.
I would insist that that $20 charge not be charged! Either that or if they won't come out - pay by credit card or check and cancel either!
Vinny
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Bosco
Sorry to hear that. I decided too take Arctic off my short list. Going to pass on them just read too many problems with their spas breaking down. They seem to change components in their spas too often.
GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Bosco, take a deep breath ;) This really sucks but I'm sure as reasonable as you have been you are going to allow them to make this right, which given the limelight that they have been in on this forum, I'm sure they will. However if that trip charge is added again on THIS problem, I'll come down there myself and picket the dealers store with you.
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ok finished staining the first quater of the tub and man it looks so good now. I took the bar off the side and will claen it all up and restain tomorrow.
But on to bigger issues, my tub is broken again. I had to shut the power off as it was making some really crazy noises and some funky burning smell.
So I got FLO, then 354 error several times, then HL stays on the screen.. I think but im not sure that this means air lock.
i cant press pump 1 button, the pump wont turn on. The tub looks like it tries to turn on but the motor or pump makes a high pitch sound then clicks off. I can see water dripping from the motor side, not the wet end. There is about a 1/4" of water pooling in the cabinet.
Oh yeah and when I put my hand under to touch it to see if i could feel a leak, I could not believe how very hot the motor was. I mean really hot.
So what should I expect now. Am I paying gas again and worrying if this will be covered under warranty, or will this be considered part of the call that I paid for last week?
Im keeping a level head here and I am not going to bad mouth, because they did come through for me, but I just really want this fixed.
Now before this happened last time, I got the same error code and FLO thing going on, then the pump or motor was leaking, so what is the odds of this happening again with a new pump and motor?? Is it possible that something else in the tub could be causing this issue that burns out the pump and motor and makes it leak??
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Sounds like a bearing is freezing up.
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Bosco, I feel bad for you but really take a relaxing breath and let Tom give you a hand. I'm sure that Arctic will stand behind this. Every brand has it's day. As soon as I bragged about how great my Jacuzzi was another member had back to back issues with his. After he had a few warranty visits he was happy and we don't hear from him anymore. The great thing about this forum is after we spend some time knocking each other around the true professionals surface and help out. This too will pass or we will all rise up and crush the evil empire. OK so I got carried away. Anyway keep us posted and the best of luck to you.
Scott 8-)
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im very relaxed, im not going to let it get to me.
So just another update, I tripped the breaker and turned it back on. The FLO error and 354 registered, the strange sound started up again. but before it shut off, I pressed the pump and it turned on, everything is running, but when the pump stops it cant start up again. The water is a very slow drip off of the pump so im not over concerned here.
I hope that they can get it fixed this week as I am going to be in Disney World with the family next Monday. Fingers crossed yet again,
I will keep you posted, im going to call and leave a message with the service department so they can maybe sneak me in tomorrow.
My tub now needs a water change and a new filter forsure as it looks like the tub is filled with skim milk LOL
so ill wait until it is fireing on all four cylinders.
And if all else fails, I will beg and plead for a deal on a new tub, + trade in.
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If it's any consolation if you're staying in Disney they have some nice tubs and they keep them clean. :)
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Hi Bosco, I had a service call on my old tub with the same service crew and they came out 3 times and was only charged the 1 trip fee, they said that until the problem was fixed there was no new charges. Water probably got into the motor and has caused some damage and the error code is probably a (no motor rotation feed back error) and that is why it is very hot to the touch. Demand a brand new pump!!! Take care,
Pete :)
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pete it is a brand new pump and motor that they just put in this week. It is strange.
last night when i turned the power to the tub on, I was able to start the pump while it was making the loud noise. I pressed pump 1 on and it turned on, it seemed to work, but now I have the FLO error again and it wont start. It seems like it wont start on its own.
Who knows. The call is in, we will see what they say when they call back.
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This is embarrasing.
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Nope. keep posting them.
I think it's embarrasing for Arctic, not for you Boscoe. I feel you argrevation. I hope everything gets resolved proffesionaly and as quickly as possible. I think this is a great opportunity for Arctic to really show the community what they stand for and the quality of thier organization. :) Tell them you will pay for one more gas charge, just make sure they bring a flat bed and a spa dolly with them.
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stained the tub, looks so good as I posted in other thread,
Heard the sound from the pump again, FLO on display so I shut it off. I just dont want to add any further damage. Should hear from them sometime this week about an appointment.
Take care and I will keep you posted.
I love that cedar skirt man, looks so good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Should I stop posting my issues?? sorry drewster
I do not want you to stop posting your issues. I have learned quite a lot from your situation, and it has been very helpful in my search for "spatopia"... I had my concerns about Arctics warranty long ago, some items in there just dont work for me... DIY repairs not covered, Warranty repairs lifetime payout limits, and the vague wording surrounding the forever floor.
I was willing to overlook all of these items, because the dealers on here had assured me that they were non issues and that Arctic stood behind their product. My willingness to overlook these items has come to an end. So I want you to continue to post because if you had not I would have possibly made a bad decision.
I will say that in my industry, we tend to get blamed quite often for the latest problem with the car. Someone brings in their vehicle for a check brakes light, we check and suggest replacement, machine rotors, repack bearings, etc... A week later the check engine light comes on, the customer quite frequently associates this incident with the recent visit to the dealership. Sometimes bad luck comes in bunches... I am not saying that your pump is not broken, but it seems Murphy and his law jump out when its not funny...
I also hear your concern with the trip charges, and I agree that your dealer should discount those considering your recent history.
Hope all works out for you on this... Keep us informed.
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I never once said not to buy an arctic. Again for the record it is a great tub. I too, have concerns with the warranty, but im working through it as I go. I will say that I have been pleased with the way that Tom from Arctic Spas management has helped and dealt with this,
I am impressed with the technician Norm who came out, wonderful person,
I am saying that the service department has dropped the ball in my case only!! It will all get worked out, and lets face it, things break, just feel that I am not getting a fair shake with the people that you call to get it fixed.
I would buy another arctic spa, I love the tub man, such a good fit for me and the family.
Please understand that my frustrations with some current and past issues has jaded me a bit. But honestly, any tub you choose will come with issues. Maybe your local arctic dealer has a better team that will care for you needs. Before you rule arctic out, just check into other customers ask for some refferrals. You may go with a company that is even worse.
So before you discard arctic, which in my opinion would be a mistake, just do a little more work. A remember that whatever tub you get, you will have issues!!!
This will all get worked out in time, it is just dissapointing that the people that I am dealing with at the service department, have taken this as a personal attack.
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Hello
This is Mary from the Arctic Spas Service Department. I spoke with you, bosco, this morning. I just wanted to clarify the conversation this morning and our policy for all service calls.
When you called and told me about leaving a message I had indeed checked the messages from over the weekend and at the time of your 2nd call I had not received your message that you had left on Monday morning at that time. (it has since been listened to)
When you had mentioned that there is water pooling under the cabinet again it is my responsibility to ask if you have checked the Union connections. This is to ensure that the EVERY customer is aware of the possibility of having a labour charge because Union connection leaks are not covered under the warranty. By telling me that you have checked them, again, I can pass that information on to the tech before he arrives and this info is kept in the customer’s notes for any future discrepancies about union leaks in the future.
That being said, I took your information about the noisy pump and placed the service call in cue with all other calls we have received over the weekend. You asked when we will be out and I told you that we would have someone back out as soon as possible and I explained that we do the scheduling in the late afternoon for the following day. As a call back you are in high priority to us and we should have Norm back out tomorrow or the next day depending on when he will be back in your area.
I hope this clears up any questions as to when Norm will be back out. If you require anything else or have any more questions please feel free to contact me directly.
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Looks like Arctic is all over this.
Inquiring minds want to know.
What is the noise and where did the water come from.
Scott 8-)
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Appointment has been set up, and I am not going to comment on any more issues that I am having with the service department. This was some advice that was given to me, so I will follow it.
I hope to keep you all informed about the progress.
Take care for now
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Appointment has been set up, and I am not going to comment on any more issues that I am having with the service department. This was some advice that was given to me, so I will follow it.
I hope to keep you all informed about the progress.
Take care for now
Bosco, by not commenting on any more issues with the service department at Arctic you are doing a disservice to anyone who may be considering buying an Arctic Spa. This board was designed to help and inform not only about "progress" but also the lack of service and performance of warranties and product. My advice is to share the true story as to how it unravels.
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Looks like Arctic is all over this.
Scott 8-)
All over this? Huh?
With all the exposure Boscos's problems have been getting? If they were "all over it" they would bump him to the top of the list and not just "in the cue of calls from this weekend"
Embarrassing.
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im leaving the personal issues that im having out, so I delted 3 of my posts as per my treatment today when I called. This is why you see the respnse from maryc. I have agreed to stop commenting with this respect.
But I told Tom, that I cant believe what has gone on. I have deleted what was said on the phone, and my response to MaryC post. I just cant believe that it took this long to get someone from the service department to respond.
I will say this, MaryC, if you would have told me on the phone what you posted here, I wouldnt have had any issue. You and I know thats not how our conversation went down, but I will leave it for now.
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Appointment has been set up, and I am not going to comment on any more issues that I am having with the service department. This was some advice that was given to me, so I will follow it.
I hope to keep you all informed about the progress.
Take care for now
I guess Arctic Spa is no longer allowing FREEDOM OF SPEECH to continue. I am sure that in order for you to receive any more warranty work they made it clear to stop posting the problems you are still having. This way Big Brother can control what is being said on this and any spa forum.
Do you have lemon laws.
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not arctic at all. I asked for some advice, and agreed not to bicker my problems with the service department on this forum. That helps nobody here.
I will comment on the work and the warranty, I just dont want to dignify a fight with MaryC who signed up today to address her comments to me rather than calling me.
Everything else is fair game
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Tub looks so good that I want to go for a soak tonight, but.......
Soon enough, Soon enough!!!!!
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Ok just to update everyone,
Norm came to the house today, saidt that the brand new pump and motore were shot. It was infact siezed and there was an issue with the electrical to it. I dont know....
Anyways, Norm is the man, added the new 2008 yellow pump and it seems to be working like a charm, no FLO message yet, but I will keep an eye on it. I cant tell you how nice it is to have someone like Norm representing this company. He is a really good guy.
So fingers crossed, it is all resolved now, and hopefully the folks at the service department who I know will be reading this, will realize that this was never personal, I just dont agree with some of the practices, ie diagnosing over the phone, and giving you a warning about 100.00 an hour fee if not covered under warranty.
I appoliogize for starting such a feeding frenzy, but far to often the little man, ie the consumer gets beaten up in the bigger picture. I am glad that this forum exits so that i have the opportunity to fight back a little. Perhaps next time, I may get a call and not ignored when I have an issue.
thanks again Tom, and Norm, I owe you guys.
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Ok just to update everyone,
Norm came to the house today, saidt that the brand new pump and motore were shot. It was infact siezed and there was an issue with the electrical to it. I dont know....
Anyways, Norm is the man, added the new 2008 yellow pump and it seems to be working like a charm, no FLO message yet, but I will keep an eye on it. I cant tell you how nice it is to have someone like Norm representing this company. He is a really good guy.
So fingers crossed, it is all resolved now, and hopefully the folks at the service department who I know will be reading this, will realize that this was never personal, I just dont agree with some of the practices, ie diagnosing over the phone, and giving you a warning about 100.00 an hour fee if not covered under warranty.
I appoliogize for starting such a feeding frenzy, but far to often the little man, ie the consumer gets beaten up in the bigger picture. I am glad that this forum exits so that i have the opportunity to fight back a little. Perhaps next time, I may get a call and not ignored when I have an issue.
thanks again Tom, and Norm, I owe you guys.
O.K so minus this site and the thing you had to post to get their attention. Where do you think your situation would stand and be honest. My reasoning behind this question is on behalf of the tens of thousnads of people who do not know this site exists and are being treated as you were. My point is would you have been taken care of the same way had Tom not have gotten involved. Just curious.
P.S you owe them NOTHING its their job!
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O.K so minus this site and the thing you had to post to get their attention. Where do you think your situation would stand and be honest. My reasoning behind this question is on behalf of the tens of thousnads of people who do not know this site exists and are being treated as you were. My point is would you have been taken care of the same way had Tom not have gotten involved. Just curious.
P.S you owe them NOTHING its their job!
I agree 100%
And if you post it here, you'll get a negative lable as contributing to a "feeding frenzy". :P
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::)
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I would comment on this but I don't think it will help Mary in the service dept and the way this or any other situation should be handled by them. And this situation in no way should reflect how Arctic as a company handles service calls but how the company Bosco bought his spa from does.
Bosco as far as you go, sounds like you got taken care of. The service tech can really make or break a company and I am sure Norm has saved the scheduler and or dealer a time or two. ;) My advice would be the next time you have a problem?? Don't call them! Go over there and talk to them in person, a lot of times you will get a different result if you are in front of the person rather than playing phone tag expecting a call back.
Just a thought.
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to tell you the truth, I dont know where I would be without the forum. When I left 2 messages back in February, I never recieved one call back. So without tom and the site, I may still be waiting for a call back.
As for the service department, I really think that this forum has made them very uncomfortable because of the bad press. But really thats too bad, because I was not trying to make a feeding frenzy, rather, I was trying to post the difficulties that I was having with my arctic tub.
I dont think that things will change in the way they diagnose over the phone, charge gas fees now when they shouldnt, warn you to the point of paranoia about potential to pay 100.00 an hour rather then sending someone out under warranty just to look at the tub. And lets face it, critiscm only makes you stronger, but in this case, based on comments that I have heard, the department took this personal, obviously very personal.
The service center is in Oakville as it turns out so a little bit far for me to go and see, but the local dealer is around the corner but they say here is the number for our service department give them a call.
The bottom line here in my opinion is this. Arctic has won several awards for there tubs customer service etc, but could this be because they were a new company, out there appealing to everyone, there needs without care about small costs. Now that they are bigger and more popular, it seems like the need to please is slowly faiding, but that is just my opinion.
I would love to know where the 20.00 trip charge goes, who really gets that money? Does that service tech get the money for gas? When you do 5 or more calls a day, that covers gas and then some, so where does the rest of the money go?? I agree that the price of gas has gone up, but 20.00 a pop, way to much.
Anyway, enough is enough, I hope I can put this issue to rest and complain about it being to windy while soaking or posting about the starts in a few nights.
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Glad to see your back up and running. Enjoy!!!!!!!!
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very poor PR
it's too bad Mary was put in this position
management should know better
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what do you mean zep
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I'm going to get on my soap box!
I don't know where this service is coming from but it doesn't seem it's from Arctic Corporation nor the dealer - seems like an independent area service center. If this is the case then that explains some things, I stopped looking at one brand by me because of this fact.
I have mentioned that I do service for a living. I never mentioned that I run a service department. I've been doing that now for 17 years. Having a tolerent customer who has put up with some things puts that customer up front in my service log. We all have good customers and bad and honestly I treat people who are good better than those who are bad. Good customers will always be there for you, bad ones will not. Fixing the customer is sometimes more important than fixing the problem!
ANYONE who forgets that the customer is the one who puts food on our - SALES AND SERVICE - table should be shoveling poop for a living. I know many managers and techs who should be!
I personally think Tom is doing what he is paid to do - a good thing but if this service center is not under the dealer nor Arctic - it's not going to go far. If Arctic management isn't on board either - forget about it. This service center most certainly needs to change how it does business.
I'm glad Bosco is OK, sorry that someone in service took whatever Bosco said personally - GET OVER IT! Bosco has been very tolerent with his very expensive purchase with apparently a few problems that seem to not be resolved until now - no forum complaining, no fixing is how I see it.
If I treated my customers like the way Bosco was treated - I'd be out of a job in a flash.
I'll get off my soap box now!!
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If all the dealers were to be 100% honest, we would say that a similar scenario has happened to one of our customers unfortunately.
As much as I feel for Bosco and feel he has been more than patient with all of this, sometimes customer service slips (for whatever reason) and people are left out in the cold. This service issue is NOT a true reflection on Arctic Spas but instead, a reflection on customer service and the problems that can happen. I've got half a dozen stories I could tell just from the last month with purchasing various products!!
I don't say this because I consider Tom a friend nor the fact that he has been a pillar on this forum and has gone above and beyond in MANY cases, but rather because I know Arctic Spas and MANY other manufacturers out there in depth and so I wanted to make it clear that this one issue can not and SHOULD not, reflect on any one company.
If people come here and see some shmuck (not you bosco) ;) say how they HATE a certain brand and scratch them off of their shopping list due to ONE individual, then they are certainly in serious trouble and can be lead around by the nose very easily. These same people will believe ANYTHING and they end up with some overpriced POS. We've all seen it a hundred times.
Lets also be clear that less than 100 people (a guess ;) ) frequent this forum on a regular basis and no ONE story is a true indicator of a given company. Although we'd like to believe otherwise, this forum reaches about .0001% of the spa buying public. We just happen to have some key individuals that can certainly assist with given cases. I did a number of them myself while with Beachcomber and a couple of them were worse than boscos (not trying to make light of your situation).
I guess what I'm trying so eloquently to say is that as bad as this seems (and IS for Bosco), it's something every manufacturer has experienced at some point and it certainly isn't exclusive to spas. I'm just trying to keep some form of perspective here.
We've all screwed up at some point and the internet has provided a vehicle (good or bad)to expose these and provide a platform to allow mass criticism.
Steve
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"If people come here and see some shmuck (not you bosco) say how they HATE a certain brand and scratch them off of their shopping list due to ONE individual, then they are certainly in serious trouble and can be lead around by the nose very easily. These same people will believe ANYTHING and they end up with some overpriced POS. We've all seen it a hundred times"
Heck, it coulda been me. Hot tubs for the most part don't have a lot of research data available to the consumer. I as a consumer usually have to rely on the dealer, who will typically infer everyone sucks and theirs is the best (I'm exaggerating to make a point) or sites like this. Since I don't know anyone personally who owns an Arctic it would be reasonable for me to see an issue like this and have it dissuade me from that brand. If Consumers Report did testing on Hot Tubs then I guess I wouldnt have to rely on word of mouth but they dont. So with all things being equal, and I have 5 hot tub companies in my purchase area, it wouldnt be stupid of me to eliminate, or at least have second thoughts about a tub someone is having such difficulties with. I know every tub has its problems, but given the limited information available, every bit counts.
And I'll go ahead and say it to save someone else from having to.. If I looked long enough, or hard enough on this site I could probably find a similar situation with most of the brands represented. But I have to respectfully disagree that if someone decided against Arctic because of this thread, it wouldnt indicate they could be lead around by the nose in other aspects of their lives, or.. in other purchases where there is a larger base of information available to research.
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steve i couldnt agree more, my post a few ahead, telling the guy not rule out arctic just based on a run of my bad luck.
As for tom, I think that he has handled this situation very well. Perhaps his influence from head office down here, has caused much of the discomfort that the service department is feeling, and maybe thats why this whole expierence has become personal with them and not just the cost of doing buisness.
I have said it so so many times, I love my tub, I love arctic tubs, they are so great in my honest opinion. A ball was dropped, and some warranty issues and service policies I do not agree with, but I still love this tub of mine.
Have I mentioned that I love my arctic!!
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"what do you mean zep" [/i]
Bosco lets just say at my company it would not be handled that way,
but let me also say I am probably not privy to all the details and background
of this situation. (btw - I am not in the spa business)
after reading Mary's response I dont know about anyone else, but I did not
get a feeling of "Boy this company really cares about it's clients and wants to
help a customer that is not happy".
in my opinion it was "well if it's this it aint covered!" and "we are documenting
your complaints so if it aint covered it aint covered" and "well you're in line
with everybody else that called this weekend complaining" I know it wasn't
intentional but it made ya think...wow just how many people called this weekend
complaining that I am in some kind of line?...i dunno.....it just made me feel like
finger-nails on a chalkboard.....not great caring customer service.
TAKE A NUMBER DAMN-IT!
it just seems kind of silly to send your service dispatcher or whatever the
title on to a message board to debate/discuss an individual customer complaint...
why not have the management rep come on and just keep it upbeat and
simple....like "hey Bosco I am the VP of operations at Arctic and I will
PM you my direct telephone number at Arctic and I will personally make
sure your problem is 100% solved to your complete satisfaction because
at Arctic we take care of our customers and stand behind what we sell!"
I think that sounds alot better than what Mary said. But hey....thats just my opinion.
And btw all companies have their good days and bad days of PR, and from
what I hear Arctic makes a great spa....this is just one incident not the whole story
of a company.
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If all the dealers were to be 100% honest, we would say that a similar scenario has happened to one of our customers unfortunately.
All companies have service issues. Nothing is perfect. What seperates great companies from every one else is how they handle and react when they have a problem.
This service issue is NOT a true reflection on Arctic Spas but instead, a reflection on customer service and the problems that can happen. I've got half a dozen stories I could tell just from the last month with purchasing various products!!\
I disagree. Customer service is part of the product the customer paid for. I think far too many companies turn a deaf ear to that, and is a shortfall. If Customer Service is failing, then the main product has a failing. This is a reflection on Arctic.
I don't say this because I consider Tom a friend nor the fact that he has been a pillar on this forum and has gone above and beyond in MANY cases, but rather because I know Arctic Spas and MANY other manufacturers out there in depth and so I wanted to make it clear that this one issue can not and SHOULD not, reflect on any one company.
Tom is a huge assest to this forum, and although I don't know him, I can tell by his demaner, proffesionalism and atttidue (even when I try to goat him), he comes across a sincerly a really nice guy.
However, it's my understanding that Tom get's paid to be here policing the internet, being a spokesman for Arctic, putting out fires, and attempting to stop "feeding frenzies" . He does a good job at it too. Tom, is my understanding correct?
If not, Arctic is damn $#@$!@#$ lucky to have you doing this out of you dedication to the product.
If people come here and see some shmuck (not you bosco) ;) say how they HATE a certain brand and scratch them off of their shopping list due to ONE individual, then they are certainly in serious trouble and can be lead around by the nose very easily. These same people will believe ANYTHING and they end up with some overpriced POS. We've all seen it a hundred times.
Lets also be clear that less than 100 people (a guess ;) ) frequent this forum on a regular basis and no ONE story is a true indicator of a given company. Although we'd like to believe otherwise, this forum reaches about .0001% of the spa buying public. We just happen to have some key individuals that can certainly assist with given cases. I did a number of them myself while with Beachcomber and a couple of them were worse than boscos (not trying to make light of your situation).
I disagree with that assumption. Is it representative? It's hard to tell, but to shrug it off as an isolated case is foolish. I've read statistics that for every complaint reported, 20 went without. I have a hard time beliving that Bosco is the only customer from this dealer to be treated with less than what they thought they were paying for.
Companies really need to forge GREAT relaitionships with thier dealers and invest in them, because they are the face of the company to consumers.
I guess what I'm trying so eloquently to say is that as bad as this seems (and IS for Bosco), it's something every manufacturer has experienced at some point and it certainly isn't exclusive to spas. I'm just trying to keep some form of perspective here.
We've all screwed up at some point and the internet has provided a vehicle (good or bad)to expose these and provide a platform to allow mass criticism.
Steve
Once again how a company reacts to problems is a great indicator of who you are dealing with. I think it's a neagative that Boscoe had to escalate this to the internet to be resolved and it's an area for improvement for Arctic.
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[glow]"I disagree with that assumption. Is it representative? It's hard to tell, but to shrug it off as an isolated case is foolish. I've read statistics that for every complaint reported, 20 went without. I have a hard time beliving that Bosco is the only customer from this dealer to be treated with less than what they thought they were paying for.
Companies really need to forge GREAT relaitionships with thier dealers and invest in them, because they are the face of the company to consumers. "[/glow]
So in turn we can assume (since the the HS thread was brought up in Boscos thread) that their were twenty other ticked off HS buyers from that dealer?
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How can a spa dealer not have a service department?
Good grief....if we sell a product to a customer, we are not about to rely on some goober company to service OUR customer! That scenario is full of fail.
We get service calls nearly every day. While most of them are piddlin' problems, we get to work on them ASAP. Taking responsibility for OUR customers is a huge advantage and the fact that most of our local competitors do not service THEIR customers oftentimes translates into them becoming OUR customers (after we haul their old spa away).
My boss always goes above and beyond in his efforts to please the people who've chosen to do business with us. You just don't nickel and dime your bread-n-butter. That's why our referral rate is at nearly 70%.
Hot tubs and customer service ain't like sendin' men into space to gather green cheese, although some like to make them out to be similiar.
Terminator
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[glow]"I disagree with that assumption. Is it representative? It's hard to tell, but to shrug it off as an isolated case is foolish. I've read statistics that for every complaint reported, 20 went without. I have a hard time beliving that Bosco is the only customer from this dealer to be treated with less than what they thought they were paying for.
Companies really need to forge GREAT relaitionships with thier dealers and invest in them, because they are the face of the company to consumers. "[/glow]
So in turn we can assume (since the the HS thread was brought up in Boscos thread) that their were twenty other ticked off HS buyers from that dealer?
Why would you assume this. Did this dealer sell HS?
And if so, it's seems that IF the HS customers did have a problem, it was resolved without having to make it an internet feeding frenzy before the right people got involved. That's the point of my entire post. Thanks for helping me make it.
But the most probable answer is the HS tubs didn't require service! :D
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Why would you assume this. Did this dealer sell HS?
And if so, it's seems that IF the HS customers did have a problem, it was resolved without having to make it an internet feeding frenzy before the right people got involved. That's the point of my entire post. Thanks for helping me make it.
But the most probable answer is the HS tubs didn't require service! :D
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1146099616
And yes it was a HS
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Tom get's paid to be here policing the internet, being a spokesman for Arctic, putting out fires, and attempting to stop "feeding frenzies"...Tom, is my understanding correct?
Pretty close. It's a small but important part of my job description as summarized here:
The Communications Officer shall regularly monitor spa forums on the internet to
a) identify and counter "brand bashing"
b) provide accurate factual information as required
c) act as a corporate spokesman in a manner which is professional, neutral, and impartial
d) intercept customer issues and arrange for them to be dealt with
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http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1146099616
And yes it was a HS
I think we might be having a communication problem here GoArtic. ??? Did you read the thread you posted????? :o
Let me recap...A Hotpsrings customer has a bad tub, a lemon, and was upset. As I stated, every company has problems BUT the difference is how they handle them.
In the thread you referenced, within 4 days of bringing it to the attention of the internet community, the customer was offered 100% trade in for thier tub. Hotsprings said, yup, you are not happy and we are going to fix this.
Its' going on several weeks with Bosco....is ARCTIC giving him 100% trade in?
Oh, an also notice in that thread, no Hotsprings dealers came in and tried to play it all down? The poster wasn't censored, or told to keep quiet, no offical HS rep came in to this forum and labled us allas controbuting to some Feeding frenzy, in fact many HS dealers posted how the operation of the tub was unacceptable. And in that thread, you can see how I was calling HS out as well.
The difference being HS walked the walked. We're still waiting for Arctic.
Hey Bosco, I think GoArtic is offering you 100% trade in on a new tub.
What a guy!
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I think we might be having a communication problem here GoArtic. ??? Did you read the thread you posted????? :o
Let me recap...A Hotpsrings customer has a bad tub, a lemon, and was upset. As I stated, every company has problems BUT the difference is how they handle them.
In the thread you referenced, within 4 days of bringing it to the attention of the internet community, the customer was offered 100% trade in for thier tub. Hotsprings said, yup, you are not happy and we are going to fix this.
Its' going on several weeks with Bosco....is ARCTIC giving him 100% trade in?
Oh, an also notice in that thread, no Hotsprings dealers came in and tried to play it all down? The poster wasn't censored, or told to keep quiet, no offical HS rep came in to this forum and labled us allas controbuting to some Feeding frenzy, in fact many HS dealers posted how the operation of the tub was unacceptable. And in that thread, you can see how I was calling HS out as well.
The difference being HS walked the walked. We're still waiting for Arctic.
Hey Bosco, I think GoArtic is offering you 100% trade in on a new tub.
What a guy!
I did read the thread, and although the guy was taken care of it took posting and many calls to do so, and I have no doubt just like with Bosco his presence on this board helped him out. I dont believe that Bosco is demanding a new spa like the HS customer was. Bosco just wants taken care of which, Arctics dealer is and has done. Carry on Drew.
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[glow]"I disagree with that assumption. Is it representative? It's hard to tell, but to shrug it off as an isolated case is foolish. I've read statistics that for every complaint reported, 20 went without. I have a hard time beliving that Bosco is the only customer from this dealer to be treated with less than what they thought they were paying for.
Companies really need to forge GREAT relaitionships with thier dealers and invest in them, because they are the face of the company to consumers. "[/glow]
So in turn we can assume (since the the HS thread was brought up in Boscos thread) that their were twenty other ticked off HS buyers from that dealer?
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All companies have service issues. Nothing is perfect. What seperates great companies from every one else is how they handle and react when they have a problem.
You missed my point drewstar... Show me a great comapny and I'll show you failure with customer service many times over. I'm all about customer service and it's my #1 priority in sales. Always has been. I'm just saying that we need to dial it back a bit and realize that this is one issue. Are there more? You bet there are but there is in every company and if anyone feels differently, they are living a fantasy. The better companies learn from them and try their best to eliminate them as best they can.
I just get a kick out of some of the people that love this stuff and carry their own ladder so they can jump on that bandwagon easier when provided the opportunity.
And FTR, I would be posting this regardless of the manufacturer in question.
Steve
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Vinny and Srarsky well said.
Steve I disagree on part of what you said.
This is my point of view. I have been resarching spas for the past 3 months. I look to these forums for open true feed back on different manufactures spas from people who have owned them for some time. Local dealers are not going to give me a customer list that is not in there favor where their customers never having any issues or service problems, its just not going too happen. I and many other potential spa owners would agree on this.
I 've read a lot of great post on here and other forums about different spas that I was cosidering. I really found what I needed to know about each spa that I thought I wanted to buy both positive and negative. It is very easy to find positive feed back, but most importantly for me is finding any negative feed back on common continuous problem(s). How the company and dealer handled the problem(s) and so on. I have found most dealers and service people on these forums too be very helpful in assisting the consumers with there problems no matter how large or small. Without these forums we as consumers would not get a clear and full insight as to how problems are handle. These forums are a invaluable tool. If I as the consumer see a pattern with a particular spa that has on going problems year after year you can bet that I will remove that spa from my list in a N.Y. second.
This is my 2 cents
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[glow]"This is my point of view. I have been resarching spas for the past 3 months. I look to these forums for open true feed back on different manufactures spas from people who have owned them for some time. Local dealers are not going to give me a customer list that is not in there favor where their customers never having any issues or service problems, its just not going too happen. I and many other potential spa owners would agree on this. "[/glow]
I respectfully disagree Too Tense, future customers are welcome to our customer file at any time, to call ALL of our customers regardless of problems. Trust me we have had customers with issues, but they have to be resolved and thats where we as dealers can really step up and WE always do. I intentionally give future prospects customers numbers that HAVE had issues with their spas so the customers can see how well we take care of the problem. In turn you are incorrect that we as dealers dont give our customers that have had services done to their spa.
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One reason I follow these threads closely, even if I say little, is that I learn a great deal. And let's face it, often one learns more from mistakes than from successes.
The dealership group in question has won numerous awards and it is unfortunate that this incident has sullied an otherwise excellent reputation (as evidenced by Bosco's comments about Norm's service). I will also say that in my dealings with the staff at the service center I have found them helpful and professional and I deeply regret that they have come under personal attack in this and other threads.
At the corporate level, we have a relatively new process and policy for handling customer issues. The revised process was just getting started in February and I didn't think to apply it to Bosco's query. My mistake, and I've done what I can to correct it. However, both policy and process are working and are being refined as we learn to use them. We will never be perfect, but we will continue to work at getting better.
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BADH.....
It still comes down to buying a quality built tub from a comapny that has been in buisness for several years (they must not be to bad a company to be around for 25 plus years) and to purchase this tub from a reputable, proven dealer.
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BOYS
Time out. Go to you corners.
I think GoArctic and Fire Marshal Bill need to distance themselves from these 2 post of Boscos. There just too emotional. Tom is here to handle these kinds of problems with a cool and level head, keeping his emotions out of it. Best handled by the pro from Arctic.
Everyone has there opinions but now things are getting way off track. Play nice.
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BOYS
Time out. Go to you corners.
I think GoArctic and Fire Marshal Bill need to distance themselves from these 2 post of Boscos. There just too emotional. Tom is here to handle these kinds of problems with a cool and level head, keeping his emotions out of it. Best handled by the pro from Arctic.
Everyone has there opinions but now things are getting way off track. Play nice.
Huh??? Im just trying to keep people from automatically assuming that Arctic doesnt take care of their dealers and customers because ultimately they do!!! Im not emotional at all really just defending the great product I sell!
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BOYS
Time out. Go to you corners.
I think GoArctic and Fire Marshal Bill need to distance themselves from these 2 post of Boscos. There just too emotional. Tom is here to handle these kinds of problems with a cool and level head, keeping his emotions out of it. Best handled by the pro from Arctic.
Everyone has there opinions but now things are getting way off track. Play nice.
If I had the power this thread would be sent packing.
The dealer has been weak a few times. Their post here to ME just confirms it further because it had the undertones of "Bosco is a PITA and our story is different" rather than just call him back when they read what he posted to see if how they could take care of him. Tom took over and righted the ship.
As Tonto might say "Dealer bad, Tom good".
Am I missing anything?
MY father had a saying when my brothers and I were fighting in the back seat of the car “If I have to turn around I don’t care who did what, I’ll slap all of you”. I never cared for it as a kid but if I were moderator…
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If I had the power this thread would be sent packing.
The dealer has been weak a few times. Their post here to ME just confirms it further because it had the undertones of "Bosco is a PITA and our story is different" rather than just call him back when they read what he posted to see if how they could take care of him. Tom took over and righted the ship.
As Tonto might say "Dealer bad, Tom good".
Am I missing anything?
MY father had a saying when my brothers and I were fighting in the back seat of the car “If I have to turn around I don’t care who did what, I’ll slap all of you”. I never cared for it as a kid but if I were moderator…
Tonto also would say "one with limp wrist should not slap" ;D
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Spatech t.u.o Right on!!!!!
You give them books send them to school and this is what happens.
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i dont know why you are defending arctic, nobody is attacking it. They are attacking the poor quality service that I got. You are vested in this and are defending arctic cuz you sell it. So stop enough is enough.
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I respectfully disagree Too Tense, [glow]future customers are welcome to our customer file at any time, to call ALL of our customers regardless of problems.[/glow] Trust me we have had customers with issues, but they have to be resolved and thats where we as dealers can really step up and WE always do. I intentionally give future prospects customers numbers that HAVE had issues with their spas so the customers can see how well we take care of the problem. In turn you are incorrect that we as dealers dont give our customers that have had services done to their spa.
Ok I don't know if I missed something but if my spa dealer gave my contact info to one of his other customers I would not be very happy. Do all dealers do this? Shouldn't a customer have to consent to their contact info being given out? Like I said, I may have missed something but I would love some light shed on this topic.
Thanks!
Jen
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Ok I don't know if I missed something but if my spa dealer gave my contact info to one of his other customers I would not be very happy. Do all dealers do this? Shouldn't a customer have to consent to their contact info being given out? Like I said, I may have missed something but I would love some light shed on this topic.
Thanks!
Jen
I always ask the customer first before letting other customers contact them. You are right I wouldnt want my info given out unless I knew about it first. Most customers dont care, there are a few that prefer not to let others contact them. Most see what we are trying to accomplish with this and since we are a small business they are usually more than happy to help.
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Bosco, will you please let us know if a prospective arctic buyer calls you for a reference from that dealer? I'm betting a months salary you won't get a call but then, I've lost bets before.. ;)
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Vinny and Srarsky well said.
Steve I disagree on part of what you said.
This is my point of view. I have been resarching spas for the past 3 months. I look to these forums for open true feed back on different manufactures spas from people who have owned them for some time. Local dealers are not going to give me a customer list that is not in there favor where their customers never having any issues or service problems, its just not going too happen. I and many other potential spa owners would agree on this.
I 've read a lot of great post on here and other forums about different spas that I was cosidering. I really found what I needed to know about each spa that I thought I wanted to buy both positive and negative. It is very easy to find positive feed back, but most importantly for me is finding any negative feed back on common continuous problem(s). How the company and dealer handled the problem(s) and so on. I have found most dealers and service people on these forums too be very helpful in assisting the consumers with there problems no matter how large or small. Without these forums we as consumers would not get a clear and full insight as to how problems are handle. These forums are a invaluable tool. If I as the consumer see a pattern with a particular spa that has on going problems year after year you can bet that I will remove that spa from my list in a N.Y. second.
This is my 2 cents
An therein is my point. We are seeing ONE snapshot. I've been on this forum for YEARS and there's only a handful of manufacturers that have consistant poor reviews. To judge a company, spa or manufacturer from one thread would be nuts and that was point earlier about being lead around blindly.
You could stummble across a different spa forum and view a similar thread on an entirely different spa (or any other product out there) and that's why I say to keep this in perspective.
Was this handled poorly? You bet but is this a true representation of a given company? Let's wait for steady, poor customer service issues before we beat on a manufacturer although it is human nature to think othrwise and bring out the big sticks.
I can't control whether or not people make a buying decision by reading one thread but I feel sorry for those people that shop with blinders. These are the people that wait 6 years to buy.
Steve
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So if a customer posts I jsut got my Arctic Spa and it's the bestest tub in the world!!!!!
We should all pile on and say "Heeeeeeey wait a minute, youre just one person and an isolated case, and your satisfaction should not be any indication on the true nature of the product? Everyon just calm down with all these congratulations and stop this feeding frenzy!"
Riiiiiiiiight. ;)
I do understand your point, as one instance should not automactly be extrapolated to a larger population. However, cases of poor customer service should be vocalized. This forum doesnt exist as a safe haven showcase for dealers to strut. It's an open and honest exchange between customers, owners, shoppers, dealers and pros.
It's a competive market out there and quality of service can make or break a deal, (and even a company). As I said any dealer looks like a superstar when there aren't any problems, but when the are issues, thats a rare oppurutnity for us to see how a company reacts. I think its fair game to really delve into these issues and posts.
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Everyone can have a problem with their brand of spa...I had my Marquis replaced several years ago for Micro-crazing. I called and told them the problem, they sent an Epic. It has also happened with customers, want to know how Marquis handles it. I call them with the problem, they send me options to send to the customer and then do whatever the customer chooses.
I've also had shell problems with other brands and here is how they handled it.
Maax wants pictures of the spa, pictures of the homeowners site, a history of the service and then maybe they would offer something.
D1 sends us an email immediately back telling us "Micro-Crazing is specifically excluded in the warranty" (like we never read that in the hundreds of their spas we’ve sold), then argues for weeks (or months) while we send pictures and plead on the customer’s behalf. Then after they get pictures they ask for them again and will, after threats and yelling from us, relent and repair of replace the spa. But won’t pay for the delivery or pickup.
If we have some kind of major leak (we really don't get these on Marquis but they would pay to bring the spa in if it couldn't be done in the field) we typically pick the spa up and bring it in (winter here it’s usually the best way).
MAAX has had a lot of these with air injectors and have paid extra for most of them to be brought back to the shop (with some argument) and get fixed. D1 fights us until the customer is at the point Bosco is and will usually never pay to bring it in to the shop.
My point is that out of thousands of spas we've sold, any of them can have a major problem. It's a matter of how the manufacture handles it (and the dealer).
I ask my manufactures if they ever get a call from the customer to call me before doing anything and let me try to take care of it, Marquis is great about this. They will first call me for a history, find out how we want to handle it, then call the customer back and let them know and then call us back to check on the situation until it's completed.
We also charge a trip fee...Warranty or not and most people understand. With the price of gas where it is and sales slowing down in a recession we either charge for everything we do or we don't stay in business to help them out.
Finally, I've followed this whole incident with bosco's tub and went back pulled a post that I was brow beat for even bring us Arctic...here's a link to that.
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1142034346/35#35
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So if a customer posts I jsut got my Arctic Spa and it's the bestest tub in the world!!!!!
We should all pile on and say "Heeeeeeey wait a minute, youre just one person and an isolated case, and your satisfaction should not be any indication on the true nature of the product? Everyon just calm down with all these congratulations and stop this feeding frenzy!"
Riiiiiiiiight. ;)
[size=48]EXACTLY!![/size] ;)
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steve i couldnt agree more, my post a few ahead, telling the guy not rule out arctic just based on a run of my bad luck.
As for tom, I think that he has handled this situation very well. Perhaps his influence from head office down here, has caused much of the discomfort that the service department is feeling, and maybe thats why this whole expierence has become personal with them and not just the cost of doing buisness.
I have said it so so many times, I love my tub, I love arctic tubs, they are so great in my honest opinion. A ball was dropped, and some warranty issues and service policies I do not agree with, but I still love this tub of mine.
Have I mentioned that I love my arctic!!
Bosco, thank you for your honesty and your advice. My decision is based on much more than your situation. As a person in the Auto Industry, sometimes a car comes out of the factory with too many bugs, and not all dealers take care of their customers like they should. That is life.
Your issue, plus my concerns over some of their warranty items, the limits of lifetime pay out, DIY requirements, and others to name a few, have led me to move in a different direction.
My compliments to Tom for trying to take care of your situation, but what do you expect? One of the most popular boards on the internet, and this is one of the most active issues on that board. I would want this to go away also if I were Tom or Arctic.
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Bosco, thank you for your honesty and your advice. My decision is based on much more than your situation. As a person in the Auto Industry, sometimes a car comes out of the factory with too many bugs, and not all dealers take care of their customers like they should. That is life.
Your issue, plus my concerns over some of their warranty items, the limits of lifetime pay out, DIY requirements, and others to name a few, have led me to move in a different direction.
My compliments to Tom for trying to take care of your situation, but what do you expect? One of the most popular boards on the internet, and this is one of the most active issues on that board. I would want this to go away also if I were Tom or Arctic.
I think if you hang out on these boards long enough you'll see almost any manufacturer. Marquis is being mentioned now, it was Cal Spas a few years ago, I've also seen Hot Spring, Sundance, Artesian and so on. As you sad every so often there is problematic "one". And also like you said, the dealer can make the difference.
It is a known fact that "good" tends to go unnoticed but "bad" seems to get around. I believe that all the dealers who post here take care of their customers correctly but not every person will run their business the same.
I also think that Arctic and Tom are doing something right - listening for some underground rumblings of problems. In the few years I have been here, Arctic is the only one UNLESS the dealers that are here report back to their respective manufacturers.
But ultimately the best spa is the one that you feel comfortable with and comfortable with the dealer. If the dealer goes out of business, hopefully the manufacturer will step up and take care of the customers in that area.
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Sorry to hear about the problems with your spa. Since I finally just got mine back to factory new running condition, I have made a vow to go in at least once every day as I appreciate it a lot more than I did before.
My cousins bought a Dynasty three or four years before I bought mine and have had 0 problems from day one. Some people just get luckier than others I guess. I bet they are like cars where the one's built on Mondays and Fridays have the most problems because everyne just wants to get home.
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I also think that Arctic and Tom are doing something right - listening for some underground rumblings of problems. In the few years I have been here, Arctic is the only one UNLESS the dealers that are here report back to their respective manufacturers.
Just a little side note to this, Bullfrog also follows web boards.
Webboy who contributes to this site is Bullfrogs website designer and manager. He regularly follows the Internet forum boards and passes info back to Bullfrogs customer service department. I do agree that Arctic is going one step further in that it is Toms job.
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Just a little side note to this, Bullfrog also follows web boards.
Webboy who contributes to this site is Bullfrogs website designer and manager. He regularly follows the Internet forum boards and passes info back to Bullfrogs customer service department. I do agree that Arctic is going one step further in that it is Toms job.
I knew webboy had something to do with Bullfrog but I thought he was a dealer. I think that's great that any manufacturer has people listening.
My only gripe with Bullfrog was back when I was looking they wouldn't send me brochures, they wanted me to visit the dealer! Take that back to them!!!! ;D ::) ;)
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My only gripe with Bullfrog was back when I was looking they wouldn't send me brochures, they wanted me to visit the dealer! Take that back to them!!!! ;D ::) ;)
Vinny,
You must have done something right, now days they send you a interative DVD with all kinds of great info on Bullfrog and thier spa design software. It really was cool 8-)
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Vinny,
You must have done something right, now days they send you a interative DVD with all kinds of great info on Bullfrog and thier spa design software. It really was cool 8-)
The other day I was looking through my CDs (music not money - how I wish!!) and found a Master Spa DVD ... I think I have a Thermospa info kit :-[ (what can I say, I thought I wanted Thermo) on VHS from about 10 to 15 years ago - I stuck them in a "safe place" and forgot about them. ;D
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Vinny,
You must have done something right, now days they send you a interative DVD with all kinds of great info on Bullfrog and thier spa design software. It really was cool 8-)
Wow,
I go away for awhile and when I get back I have good people like In Canada eh taking care of me! Thanks :)
Vinny, where do you want your brochure sent to? :D