Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Summitman on April 18, 2008, 09:57:29 pm
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Heres your chance, consumers and dealers, ask a Arctic dealer any question you like. I will request we keep pricing out of the questions with respect to different countries and areas of countries having different price structures.
FIRE AWAY.
I thought I would try this, I think it would be great for all the major manufacturers to have a thread like this. I request that it only be questions with no flaming.
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I'll start---and since I can't ask for a FREE one ;D ;D ;D
What is the best selling Arctic spa??
Chrisi :)
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I'll start---and since I can't ask for a FREE one ;D ;D ;D
What is the best selling Arctic spa??
Chrisi :)
The best selling in the past out of our store has always been the "Cub". Recently though with the reengineered design the "Yukon" has been very popular and I anticipate it challenging the "Cub" and the "Fox" for the number one seller.
GA
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Not to get entirely off the subject, but my Arctic dealer did finally contact me. In addition to the JQZ 470 this Sun, we shall also be wettesting Artcics and a Dynasty mid next week!!!!!!!!! Oh, Happy, Happy Joy Joy!! :o ;D ;D :-*]
http://www.dynastyspas.com/Spas/tabid/56/Spas/SpaDetail/tabid/65/series/Neptune%20Series/Spas/SpaDetail/tabid/66/xmid/2196/Default.aspx
http://www.arcticspas.com/index.php/en/custom_content/1/1/
WooHOoo!!!! :o :o ::)
Unfortunately, though I do have to work tomorrow :'( :'(
Chrisi
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Enjoy the wet test! :D
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I have to agree the Cub is my best sell spa as well! I will also chime in from time to time (when I'm not selling spas).
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Heres your chance, consumers and dealers, ask a Arctic dealer any question you like.
OK, I got one... Why is it that my 14 year old daughter has more expensive clothes than me? :-?
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OK, I got one... Why is it that my 14 year old daughter has more expensive clothes than me? :-?
because, like me your a big enough dork like myself to be on a internet message board on friday night. Who care about expensive clothes in our case?
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OK, I got one... Why is it that my 14 year old daughter has more expensive clothes than me? :-?
Oh, oh me too, If everyone in the world jumped off a chair at the same time what would happen?? ;)
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Oh, oh me too, If everyone in the world jumped off a chair at the same time what would happen?? ;)
we would then take saturns spot in order of the solar system.
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we would then take saturns spot in order of the solar system.
;D ;D ;D ;D
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My turn...
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
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Does Tom really exist or is he a committee?
8-)
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Does Tom really exist or is he a committee?
8-)
Tom does exist, he handles all the communications for Blue Falls Manufacturing (Arctic Spas). He sends out all the updates and communications from the manufacturing to the dealers.
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My turn...
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
He'd chuck away at the wood all day if a woodchuck could chuck wood!!!!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Tom does exist, he handles all the communications for Blue Falls Manufacturing (Arctic Spas). He sends out all the updates and communications from the manufacturing to the dealers.
I thought you meant the "TOM" from myspace. I guess I'm showing my age.
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Never mind...I found the answer.
Term
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Ok, a NEW and Arctic related ????----Will Arctic be bringing back the smooth surface "swirly" shell?? And in a variety of colors?? (I like blues/grays/blacks) OR will it continue to look like the granite/marble type surface?? I know there is a smooth, white shell.
Just curious.
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Arctic has several colors to choose from.
White colors
Lunar (granite)
Moonscape (granite)
Bath White
Cameo White ( my favorite) closest to swirly white
Dark Colors
Silk (gray color)
Black Metallic (granite)
Denim(blue)
Mocha(brown)
Starry Nite Blue(blue granite)
You should check out the Cameo White with stainless steel jets, it looks pretty sweet! With the deluxe northern lights you will be bling blinging!
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I think I owe you an apology goarctic...
You started a very useful thread and I was one of the first to make light of it when really it should have been utilized for the purpose it was intended. It has slowly deteriorated since... again, my apologies... :-/
Hopefully it's used for real questions from this point...
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I think I owe you an apology goarctic...
You started a very useful thread and I was one of the first to make light of it when really it should have been utilized for the purpose it was intended. It has slowly deteriorated since... again, my apologies... :-/
Hopefully it's used for real questions from this point...
Not your fault Steve, I appreciate the good fun joking as well. Nothing wrong with that. I appreciate you seeing my purpose of the thread. I hope it can be used for good questions as well, for current Arctic customers or prospective customers.
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Not your fault Steve, I appreciate the good fun joking as well. Nothing wrong with that. I appreciate you seeing my purpose of the thread. I hope it can be used for good questions as well, for current Arctic customers or prospective customers.
Hey, even though I asked Arctic related questions, I thought it was funny as well!!! ;D ;D WHy do ya'll turn it all around!!! It keeps things light!!
Anyhoo, ga--I know Water Boy has explianed to me the differences between the Legend Extremes and SE's. But I forget now. I need my Aricept and B vitamins ;D. Would you please run down that list again---and no, you don't have to include the 5 yr vs 10 year warranty-------that will really stir the pot again, and we would ALL be in a tub of hot water-----but isn't that what we all really want!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Again, a valid question.
Thanks--Chrisi :)
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Hey, even though I asked Arctic related questions, I thought it was funny as well!!! ;D ;D WHy do ya'll turn it all around!!! It keeps things light!!
Anyhoo, ga--I know Water Boy has explianed to me the differences between the Legend Extremes and SE's. But I forget now. I need my Aricept and B vitamins ;D. Would you please run down that list again---and no, you don't have to include the 5 yr vs 10 year warranty-------that will really stir the pot again, and we would ALL be in a tub of hot water-----but isn't that what we all really want!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Again, a valid question.
Thanks--Chrisi :)
WWHT
The Legend SE comes standard with the 10 year warranty, Forever Floor, Deluxe Northern Lights, and I believe the Onzen System. (I will have to check on the Onzen system tomorrow, cause it used to come standard with the Peak Ozone Sytem, and Onzen tooks its place) Ill check tomorrow and let you know for sure on that one.
They both have 61 jets, 3 pumps, 14 air jets, and 1 air blower. So the LSE adds on the 10yrs, Forever Floor, Deluxe Northern Lights, and Onzen.
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Cool!!
next question---------
Since most manufacturers boast a "maintenance free" cabinet and Arctic has a cedar cabinet (as one of the choices--I have seen others with cedar, too) does the Cedar cabinet need to be maintained??
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WHile sitting here and looking at the Arctic website, it doesnt show where the Northern Lights, Deluxe light up--my friend with the Kodiak has NL with the waterfall and 2 large lights but what is the difference, with the NL Deluxe??
Thanks, this has been fun and interesting!!
and, since Arctic is definately one of the forerunners--I like to have all the info I can!!! Jacuzzi, too!!
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Cool!!
next question---------
Since most manufacturers boast a "maintenance free" cabinet and Arctic has a cedar cabinet (as one of the choices--I have seen others with cedar, too) does the Cedar cabinet need to be maintained??
Arctics cedar cabinet does require a restain and seal once every 2-3 years. As long as this is done the cabinet will look like new forever. The important thing about to remember is its cedar and not redwood like so many used in the past. This 3/4" thick, furniture grade, tongue and groove constructed cabinet is built to last forever. Cedar doesnt rot and repels insects! If you look at most "maintenance" free cabinets warranties you will notice that they dont cover fading or cracking! Cedar isnt bad, it actually makes a great cabinet.
btw, for those that just have to have the synthetic cabinets, Arctic does offer them!
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WHile sitting here and looking at the Arctic website, it doesnt show where the Northern Lights, Deluxe light up--my friend with the Kodiak has NL with the waterfall and 2 large lights but what is the difference, with the NL Deluxe??
Thanks, this has been fun and interesting!!
and, since Arctic is definately one of the forerunners--I like to have all the info I can!!! Jacuzzi, too!!
Ill check on the deluxe lights and Onzene if they come with the LSE when I get to work and get back to you.
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Arctics cedar cabinet does require a restain and seal once every 2-3 years. As long as this is done the cabinet will look like new forever. The important thing about to remember is its cedar and not redwood like so many used in the past. This 3/4" thick, furniture grade, tongue and groove constructed cabinet is built to last forever. Cedar doesnt rot and repels insects! If you look at most "maintenance" free cabinets warranties you will notice that they dont cover fading or cracking! Cedar isnt bad, it actually makes a great cabinet.
btw, for those that just have to have the synthetic cabinets, Arctic does offer them!
And for the record, I'd take cedar over any other cabinet. As goarctic said, it can last forever but it looks better (IMO) and cedar is used for totem poles. There must be a reason they chose cedar... :)
I always get a kick of the "zero maintenance" thing. I would treat my cabinet once every few years and it took about 30 minutes to do it. So yes...cut out that horrible 30 minutes of work every 3 years and go with synthetic. Doesn't sound as powerful in that perspective does it... ;)
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Ill check on the deluxe lights and Onzene if they come with the LSE when I get to work and get back to you.
Ok officially the LSE comes with
Forever Floor
Onzene System
Deluxe Northern Lights (Five lights lights located throughout spa)
10yr. warranty
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Does Tom really exist or is he a committee?
<Eerie, deep voice> "My name is Legion, for I am many."
<cue spooky music, maniacal laughter>
No, just one of me. Do I really exist? Gee, I can't handle deep existential questions this early on a Monday morning. Let me get back to you on that.
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<Eerie, deep voice> "My name is Legion, for I am many."
<cue spooky music, maniacal laughter>
No, just one of me. Do I really exist? Gee, I can't handle deep existential questions this early on a Monday morning. Let me get back to you on that.
If an Arctic customer complains in a forest and no one is there, does Tom still hear it? ;)
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Well, I just wanted to be sure. He does a fine job around here, and several other places, so I wanted to check and be sure "he" wasn't really a group of people all signing in under an assumed name.
Like "Terminator" or something... ;D ;D ;D
8-)
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So I drove 6 hours up to Salt Lake City, UT to take care of some family business. On my way back to Vegas I visited the Arctic Spa dealer. 2 tubs got my attention, the Tundra and the redesigned Yukon. Anyway I was in a hurry to get on the road and to see webboy at BullFrog that I left with a few questions.
I thought the Arctic Cooler was a very cool idea (no pun intended) because I could use my spa in the Vegas summers. So how does it work?
Next question is that Arctic uses salt water if I heard right and a special type of ozonator to keep the water clean, please explain this arrangement.
Thanks,
Scott :-?
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2 tubs got my attention, the Tundra and the redesigned Yukon.
I thought the Arctic Cooler was a very cool idea (no pun intended) because I could use my spa in the Vegas summers. So how does it work?
Next question is that Arctic uses salt water if I heard right and a special type of ozonator to keep the water clean, please explain this arrangement.
Thanks,
Scott :-?
My friend with the Kodiak LE must have the cooler--she turned on the blower and instant cool down!!
So, Scott you guys liked the Tundra!! That is our fave, too! ( in the Arctic line, at least...)
What were you doing up at 4 am??
I was at work--
Chrisi
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So I drove 6 hours up to Salt Lake City, UT to take care of some family business. On my way back to Vegas I visited the Arctic Spa dealer. 2 tubs got my attention, the Tundra and the redesigned Yukon. Anyway I was in a hurry to get on the road and to see webboy at BullFrog that I left with a few questions.
I thought the Arctic Cooler was a very cool idea (no pun intended) because I could use my spa in the Vegas summers. So how does it work?
Next question is that Arctic uses salt water if I heard right and a special type of ozonator to keep the water clean, please explain this arrangement.
Thanks,
Scott :-?
SwellTub, two great models that you are looking at there. I love the new Yukon design! The Arctic Cooler is new technology that Arctic is introducing to warmer climates. It actually generates cool air that helps cool off the water for really warm climates, to make the spa more inviting. I dont know a lot about the technology, but I can see where it would benefit you in Las Vegas.
In regards to the Onzen salt system, Arctic has engineered a system that uses dead sea salts to purify the water. It does this by using a salt generator in conjunction with a ozone system. It has been very effective at producing the proper amount of purification in the water to make it safe to use. It takes little to no maintenance as far as chemicals go. You initially add the proper amount of dead sea salts to the water, and balance the ph/alkalinity. After that it pretty much takes care of itself. You will have to periodically check your ph reading as it will creep up on you sometimes. With the combo of a ozone system the water is always being purified.
Here is a diagram of the system from their website
http://www.arcticspas.com/index.php/en/show_content/3/50/
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With energy costs spiraling out control it seems that it will only be a matter of time before California’s CEC Title 20 will be enforced and spa manufactures will be held to strict energy efficiency standards or not be able to sell in the state
Other states are close to enacting similar regulation.
Arctic’s claim to fame is their superior energy efficiency, yet just claiming it, it seems, won’t be enough for the CEC.
What has Artic done, specifically, to insure it’s product will meet or surpass the CEC regulations?
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Speaking of ozone, and this is open to ALL dealers/manufactureres--
Could there be SOME slight possiblility that owning a spa with ozonator can HELP the ozone layer??? You know, like all the CFC's and what not's that destroy it? I personallyprobably have my own hole in the ozone layer named after me, with all the harispray I use!!
Thngs that make you go hmmm.... :-/ ::)
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I thought the Arctic Cooler was a very cool idea (no pun intended) because I could use my spa in the Vegas summers. So how does it work?
I'll add a little more technical detail for those who want it (if not, skip this post).
The Chiller is a solid state system that uses the Peltier effect, or thermoelectric cooling. Where other spa coolers use refrigerant systems linked via a heat exchanger to the water plumbing, the Chiller works with fans and an air-to-air heat exchanger to cools the air in the chamber between shell and insulated cabinet. It's a high-tech solution engineered to take advantage of Arctic's unique perimeter insulation.
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So, Scott you guys liked the Tundra!! That is our fave, too! ( in the Arctic line, at least...)
What were you doing up at 4 am??
I was at work--
Chrisi
4 am your time. 1 am my time. I just got home from driving from Salt Lake and was winding down. The Arctic Spa really has my attention lately.
Scott ;)
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Goarctic, please forgive me for jumping in here. I think I'm in the best position to respond.
Arctic’s claim to fame is their superior energy efficiency, yet just claiming it, it seems, won’t be enough for the CEC. What has Artic done, specifically, to insure it’s product will meet or surpass the CEC regulations?
Your post has quite a challenging tone, but that's okay. Specifically, here are some of the things we've done:
- We've had our spas tested, long before California got into the act. The Alberta Research Council test of Thermal Efficiency of Hot Tubs http://www.arcticspas.com/downloads/performance/Thermal%20Performance%20Test%20of%20Spas.pdf showed the Arctic test models to be in the top four for energy efficiency at 20oC and the most efficient in the test group at -12oC. That low temperature far exceeds the CEC standard.
- We built our own low-temperature test chamber on site, back in 2001, so we've been testing our spas for a good long while. Any production change or new model can be tested and any energy improvement verified. This test facility is now CEC certified.
- We requested that the Canadian government Office of Energy Efficiency study the economic impact of improved hot tub efficiency, and provided them with our test data. The OEE agreed that such improvements would have a significant national economic impact. This began a two-year process that is now coming to fruition.
- The OEE branch of National Resources Canada is now working towards a standard of energy efficiency testing more appropriate to the Canadian climate (some hot tubs that work fine in California tend to freeze their pumps off up here) and Arctic expects to serve on the test committee. The ultimate goal of this is Ener-Guide and Energy Star labeling for all hot tubs sold in Canada and to influence construction specifications to maximize energy efficiency. Do you think we would have started this ball rolling if we had any concern about the outcome?
- We sponsored some head-to-head testing http://www.arcticspas.com/downloads/performance/Cost%20Comparison-Cold%20Weather.pdf which demonstrates Arctic's energy efficiency.
As you can see, our claims are well backed by facts.
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Thanks Tom, you obviously have a few more facts at your disposal!
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I have to admit I had't given Arctic much thought but I went to the Salt Lake store yesterday and I thought I was down to the Sundance Optima or Jacuzzi J-470 but the chiller, insulated cabinet, noise reduction thing has gotten my attention. I'm trying to get a wet test in Salt Lake in the coming weeks. Service is going to be a problem for me however.
Scott :-?
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Goarctic, please forgive me for jumping in here. I think I'm in the best position to respond.
Your post has quite a challenging tone, but that's okay. Specifically, here are some of the things we've done:
- We've had our spas tested, long before California got into the act. The Alberta Research Council test of Thermal Efficiency of Hot Tubs http://www.arcticspas.com/downloads/performance/Thermal%20Performance%20Test%20of%20Spas.pdf showed the Arctic test models to be in the top four for energy efficiency at 20oC and the most efficient in the test group at -12oC. That low temperature far exceeds the CEC standard.
- We built our own low-temperature test chamber on site, back in 2001, so we've been testing our spas for a good long while. Any production change or new model can be tested and any energy improvement verified. This test facility is now CEC certified.
- We requested that the Canadian government Office of Energy Efficiency study the economic impact of improved hot tub efficiency, and provided them with our test data. The OEE agreed that such improvements would have a significant national economic impact. This began a two-year process that is now coming to fruition.
- The OEE branch of National Resources Canada is now working towards a standard of energy efficiency testing more appropriate to the Canadian climate (some hot tubs that work fine in California tend to freeze their pumps off up here) and Arctic expects to serve on the test committee. The ultimate goal of this is Ener-Guide and Energy Star labeling for all hot tubs sold in Canada and prevention of low-efficiency products being sold here. Do you think we would have started this ball rolling if we had any concern about the outcome?
- We sponsored some head-to-head testing http://www.arcticspas.com/downloads/performance/Cost%20Comparison-Cold%20Weather.pdf which demonstrates Arctic's energy efficiency.
As you can see, our claims are well backed by facts.
Please forgive any tone. As it is, it's hard to tell inflection in such a media as a web forum. Perhaps I should ad some smiley faces, etc. to my posts.
Any challenge I offer will pale compared to the challenges of doing business during these interesting economic times.
While your bullet points are interesting, I'm not sure that any point but #2 really fit with the question.I can not speak for the CEC, but I’m not sure they will accept 3rd party, manufacturer sponsored testing. Time will tell.
In point #2 you mentioned that your facility is CEC certified? How does that work? Does the California Energy Commission come to the facility Canada? Will the CEC verify this certification for a consumer? Will you have facility certified by Oregon and NJ when they enact similar standards?
Lastly, there is a rather extensive list of Hot Tub manufacturers and related industries, with the help of ASAP, that have joined together to work with the CEC in effort to make any transition as easy as it can be for the industry. The contributions from these industry leaders have been financial as well as advisory.
As an industry leader, is Artic involved with this?
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Any challenge I offer will pale compared to the challenges of doing business during these interesting economic times.
There aren't any interesting economic times here in our area. We are having a great year and are on pace to beat last year's numbers. Just got done selling a new Cub Ultra to a guy that had an old name brand tub. He asked me if I wanted to call the other salesman where he bought his old name brand tub to tell him he bought ours. The salesman had already called twice to follow up. I told him no thanks, he might punch me in the teeth! ;D
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"As an industry leader, is Artic involved with this? "
Since were questioning, its "Arctic", not Artic.
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As I have been hanging out on this forum I thought Arctic was like a second tier spa. I never heard of the brand before I hung out here. How big is the network of dealers nationwide? What quality standards does Arctic build to? These are not loaded questions I thought I was down to two spa's and now I discover another possibility.
Scott :-?
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As I have been hanging out on this forum I thought Arctic was like a second tier spa. I never heard of the brand before I hung out here. How big is the network of dealers nationwide? What quality standards does Arctic build to? These are not loaded questions I thought I was down to two spa's and now I discover another possibility.
Scott :-?
You probably havent heard of Arctic as much as some of the others, cause the marketing in the US just hasnt been there. The network of dealers nationwide in the US isn't as large as the network in Canada. I know that Arctic has intentions of starting up a large amount of new US dealers in the very near future. I do know that from a dealer standpoint they are very easy to deal with so this will only do one thing and increase the amount of dealers worldwide. I dont know the exact number of dealers in the US, but it is a growing list. Maybe Tom can help with this. Arctic Spas are sold worldwide.
I will say that I am very proud of the product that I sell, and most in this city that I do business in know me for my excellent line of spas and great service. We compete here with some of the very best and do very well.
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Hey all!! While, for a chick, it is entertaining to see men whine and beeotch slap each other like to little old women fighting over who has nicer bananas---let's get back on THE SUBJECT-------------------SPAS------------------------- :-? :o >:(
OK So I asked for anyone's opinion about ozone and whether or not it is good for the environment............yeah, a stupid question, but at least spa related.
Anyone else out there with something VALID to say or discuss????????????????? :-?
Let's not choose sides, please.
SIncerely,
an exhausted nurse--wewannahottub
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Hey all!! While, for a chick, it is entertaining to see men whine and beeotch slap each other like to little old women fighting over who has nicer bananas---let's get back on THE SUBJECT-------------------SPAS------------------------- :-? :o >:(
OK So I asked for anyone's opinion about ozone and whether or not it is good for the environment............yeah, a stupid question, but at least spa related.
Anyone else out there with something VALID to say or discuss????????????????? :-?
Let's not choose sides, please.
SIncerely,
an exhausted nurse--wewannahottub
WWHTB,
Sorry that I never got to your question, I really dont think it would have much effect on the environment. I have never heard or seen anyone comment on that before.
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I know it was a lame-o question. But since every little thing out there destroys ozone, I thought, hmmmm...
I'll quit thinking.
Thank you ga for an interesting thread and some poignant questions were answered.
Hopefully the next question or thread won't go off track. THough, sometimes it is entertaining!!
;)
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I know it was a lame-o question. But since every little thing out there destroys ozone, I thought, hmmmm...
I'll quit thinking.
Thank you ga for an interesting thread and some poignant questions were answered.
Hopefully the next question or thread won't go off track. THough, sometimes it is entertaining!!
;)
Very entertaining, I just wanted to toss out a new thread idea that maybe would answer some questions is all. Hopefully I can help out on this board.
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Their is not enough ozone out put from a spa to hurt the environment, but, with all the green issues in the media lately, I am sure they will find something related to it. ::)
Ozone is defiantly not good to breath, hence the term "off gas" Thats why 90%plus of the spa's out there when running any main pumps will shut the ozonator off. Now if you open the lid get in and not turn any pumps on you will be breathing ozone if its on. On the J-470 their is an icon on the topside that lets you now your ozone is on or off, kinda nice feature.
I think D1 is one of the only ones out there that can claim zero off gas when using the spa, I personally find it hard to believe, but studies/testing don't lie?? ::)
Chrisi, Does the hospital you work at use ozone/UV light in its air handling system??
Ever feel tired,headache,grouchy,bite your husbands head off at the slightest comment?? Could be ozone. Just kidding of course, its the job. :)
I was serious about the hospital question though.
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Their is not enough ozone out put from a spa to hurt the environment, but, with all the green issues in the media lately, I am sure they will find something related to it. ::)
Ozone is defiantly not good to breath, hence the term "off gas" Thats why 90%plus of the spa's out there when running any main pumps will shut the ozonator off. Now if you open the lid get in and not turn any pumps on you will be breathing ozone if its on. On the J-470 their is an icon on the topside that lets you now your ozone is on or off, kinda nice feature.
I think D1 is one of the only ones out there that can claim zero off gas when using the spa, I personally find it hard to believe, but studies/testing don't lie?? ::)
Chrisi, Does the hospital you work at use ozone/UV light in its air handling system??
Ever feel tired,headache,grouchy,bite your husbands head off at the slightest comment?? Could be ozone. Just kidding of course, its the job. :)
I was serious about the hospital question though.
Hmm. I don't know?? I'll have to find out!! UV would make sense, since it helps to kill off bacteria.
Otherwise, I thought it was just hormones ;D ;D ;D!!
The air at work is always dry, though. One of the nurses I work with-her hubby is an HVAC tech--he may know!!
But, like you guys, I love my job--some days better than others.
Chrisi :)
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Um yeah, I love my job so much, I have 180 hours of vacation time built up. ::) :'(
Actually I am on vacation all next week. :) But then I have 6 acres worth of property to take care of, so may not be much of a vacation, but I will get some golf in at some point.
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Um yeah, I love my job so much, I have 180 hours of vacation time built up. ::) :'(
Actually I am on vacation all next week. :) But then I have 6 acres worth of property to take care of, so may not be much of a vacation, but I will get some golf in at some point.
Vacation next week!!! Who will hold up the Jacuzzi honor on this forum with you gone....
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Should the reigns be handed over to the new JQZ owners--Spatini or Saved by Grace???
JJ--at least while you are caring for that 6 acres of property, YOU have a hot tub to relax in!!!!!!!!! Lucky, Lucky dawgs. ;D
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With energy costs spiraling out control it seems that it will only be a matter of time before California’s CEC Title 20 will be enforced and spa manufactures will be held to strict energy efficiency standards or not be able to sell in the state.
I would say that the answer to this problem would be to buy a spa NOW! ;D ;D
(I'm all for avoiding a problem if at all possible!)
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Heres your chance, consumers and dealers, ask a Arctic dealer any question you like. I will request we keep pricing out of the questions with respect to different countries and areas of countries having different price structures.
FIRE AWAY.
I thought I would try this, I think it would be great for all the major manufacturers to have a thread like this. I request that it only be questions with no flaming.
When are you going to open a store in Central Ohio? With my title, I'm expected to know something, and I've never seen one.
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When are you going to open a store in Central Ohio? With my title, I'm expected to know something, and I've never seen one.
Its not central ohio, but there is a Arctic dealer in Hudson, OH. Hudson Pools and Spas. There is also one in Mayfield, OH. Arctic Spas Mayfield. I know that Arctic is becoming more aggressive in setting up dealers in the US, so maybe its not far off, that they set one up closer to you.
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Its not central ohio, but there is a Arctic dealer in Hudson, OH. Hudson Pools and Spas. There is also one in Mayfield, OH. Arctic Spas Mayfield. I know that Arctic is becoming more aggressive in setting up dealers in the US, so maybe its not far off, that they set one up closer to you.
If I get to the Mayfield Curling club, I'll stop by.
To everyone, lets bring it up a notch, lets not become the board Jimmy says we are.
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If I get to the Mayfield Curling club, I'll stop by.
To everyone, lets bring it up a notch, lets not become the board Jimmy says we are.
I know the Hudson Bay dealer, very good people. I dont know the mayfield dealer. Ill take the advice and do my part on taking it up a notch. :)
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In a posted dated today, it was stated:
- We built our own low-temperature test chamber on site, back in 2001, so we've been testing our spas for a good long while. Any production change or new model can be tested and any energy improvement verified. This test facility is now CEC certified.
My poor spelling aside, I’d still very much like someone to expand on Arctic’s CEC certified testing facility.
As much detail as you can give would be appreciated.
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James; can I ask why you have this intense curiosity on Arctic specifically? As a Caldera dealer, is this for ammunition to sell against them? :-? Can I ask what studies are available to US from Caldera to show a comparison in efficiency?
Arctic seems to be one of the few manufacturers that has done outside testing on their spas (info has been available to the general public for years) and has gone through the expense of building a low-temperature test chamber at the plant.
With all due respect to Arctic and yourself, most any major brand has very similar operating costs within a few $ a month of each other. Really a moot point... :-/
And for the record, EVERY manufacturer claims superior energy efficiency... nothing new there...
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James; can I ask why you have this intense curiosity on Arctic specifically? As a Caldera dealer, is this for ammunition to sell against them? :-? Can I ask what studies are available to US from Caldera to show a comparison in efficiency?
Arctic seems to be one of the few manufacturers that has done outside testing on their spas (info has been available to the general public for years) and has gone through the expense of building a low-temperature test chamber at the plant.
With all due respect to Arctic and yourself, most any major brand has very similar operating costs within a few $ a month of each other. Really a moot point... :-/
And for the record, EVERY manufacturer claims superior energy efficiency... nothing new there...
Dear Steve,
I'm sorry if my line of questioning seems intense. I am, after all, asking questions about Arctic, in a thread titled Ask an Artic Dealer anything. Intensity aside, if my questions are too tough, inappropriate or rude, please let me know.
Otherwise, I'd still like some dialogue on something I read. Tom mentioned that the Arctic testing facility had been California Energy Commission Certified. I would like Tom to, if he can, expand on that.
I'll be happy to answer your Caldera questions to the best of my ability.
There is no Arctic dealer within 100+ miles of my store. I never ever compete against them. I need no ammunition to sell against them. My question would have been the same regardless of who asked it. I would have asked about CEC Title 20 regardless of the spa brand. "Ask a _____________ Dealer anything". You fill in the blank. The question would have been the same.
As far as Caldera Energy Efficiency Studies I’ll offer this and I am sure many of the other Watkins Dealers in the forum would agree.
I am sure there are volumes of testing data and research information locked snuggly in the vaults of Watkins Mfg in southern Calif. I have no doubt that there is no other spa manufacturer out there that does as much R/D on a product as Watkins.
I also know the research is expensive and proprietary. I can not imagine that you, or I, or anyone else would have an easy time getting our hands on the data.
I prefer a simpler testing method for Caldera in my area. I ask my Caldera clients how much it costs to run their spa when they visits my store.
I also have faith in Watkins that when these mandated energy standards go into effect, Caldera will pass with flying colors.
I am sorry these questions seem tough. I sell hottubs, but I am also a citizen. It was earth day yesterday and the price of oil hit $119 a barrel.
I am concerned.
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"I am sure there are volumes of testing data and research information locked snuggly in the vaults of Watkins Mfg in southern Calif. I have no doubt that there is no other spa manufacturer out there that does as much R/D on a product as Watkins"
Thats a pretty bold statement! Have you ever toured another manufacturers plant. Do you know everything about Arctics line? How do you know that they dont do MORE R&D development. Thats one the best features about the Arctic imo, that they spend lots of time and money on R&D. Such benefits from this research would be the Onzene system, fiberglass floor, castcore cover, and the style of pumps they use. Before we make claims that one does more research than the other we may want to back that up with facts. I have no idea what Watkins spends on the R&D side just like you have no idea how much Arctic spends on their end.
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The tone of this thread is too tense for me I better go relax in my hot tub. Dang I don't have one yet.......
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James; can I ask why you have this intense curiosity on Arctic specifically? As a Caldera dealer, is this for ammunition to sell against them? :-? Can I ask what studies are available to US from Caldera to show a comparison in efficiency?
Arctic seems to be one of the few manufacturers that has done outside testing on their spas (info has been available to the general public for years) and has gone through the expense of building a low-temperature test chamber at the plant.
With all due respect to Arctic and yourself, most any major brand has very similar operating costs within a few $ a month of each other. Really a moot point... :-/
And for the record, EVERY manufacturer claims superior energy efficiency... nothing new there...
The CEC regs call for self testing, not third party. As far as I know only Hot Spring (not all Watkins) and Arctic have had 3rd party testing. From what I understand, if 3rd party testing was done across the industry, many, if not most, spas would not pass, including several brands touted here. The testing is based on "stand by" mode and if a spa's low speed pump and heater are going during this period, it will be difficult to pass. The standards only will be meaningful when consumers buy tubs that have been certified and they get their surprise.
I know James has sold HS before and understands the testing that was done. I think he is trying to understand what Arctic has done.
Yes, Steve, every manufacturer [glow]claims[/glow] superior energy efficiency. Only Watkins/Hot Spring and Arctic have tested. Study their tests. Draw your own conclusions. Consider why no one else has published any 3rd party testing.
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Hottubdan,
Could you put a link to the third party test that Watkins had done on the HS line. I would like to see it if it is public information?
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This link is the results. It is not a PDF of the report that Arctic has available. It is more like the article in the journal.
http://www.hotspring.com/Spa_Showroom_Hot_Tub/energy_testing.html
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Thanks Dan. I have seen that on their website but I didn't know if you were talking about a different study or not. Is there an article that was done in some journal. Is there a link to the article??
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Thanks Dan. I have seen that on their website but I didn't know if you were talking about a different study or not. Is there an article that was done in some journal. Is there a link to the article??
That's the study. That's the link. That is all I know. ;)
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So.....Will James get an answer to his question? :-?
Seems it was kinda glossed over. :-/
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So.....Will James get an answer to his question? :-?
Seems it was kinda glossed over. :-/
It will have to be Tom that answers that question, or someone in the know. That is if its a question that can be answered
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I also have faith in Watkins that when these mandated energy standards go into effect, Caldera will pass with flying colors.
Not one spa manufacturer that build a spa over 160 gallons can past the current CEC standard (not even close), the parameters set by CEC are a joke that is why is has still not gone in to affect. Several manufactures are in talks with the make real life standard.
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Not one spa manufacturer that build a spa over 160 gallons can past the current CEC standard (not even close), the parameters set by CEC are a joke that is why is has still not gone in to affect. Several manufactures are in talks with the make real life standard.
its not a joke the other manufacture just dont want to take the time or the money or the effort for that matter to meet the standards.
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Goarctic, thanks for starting this thread, it seems to be bringing a lot of good queries.
If I don't answer a question right away, it doesn't mean I'm "glossing over it" or ignoring it. I try to make time to check the forums once a day but sometimes I have job deadlines that prevent that. Please, I ask your patience and forbearance.
Please forgive any tone.
As I said, that's okay. I might sound a little harried in the paragraph above. Actually, I am. :o
In point #2 you mentioned that your facility is CEC certified? How does that work? Does the California Energy Commission come to the facility in Canada? Will you have facility certified by Oregon and NJ when they enact similar standards?
These are good and interesting questions. When our factory was TUV certified (TUV is the European version of UL, ETL, or CSA), the TUV people had a Canadian associate engineer who drove out to inspect the factory and filled in a bunch of forms. Based on his report, TUV issued the certificate. Perhaps the CEC certification is similar? I'll get back to you.
Will the CEC verify this certification for a consumer?
I'll have to find out. TUV did this. The certificate is posted on the TUV site and anyone can view it. I know you're curious. Go to http://tuvamerica.com/tools/clientlists/certs.cfm and search for Blue Falls Manufacturing in the category Certificate Holder. You will find three certificates under our name. Click to view each in turn.
Lastly, there is a rather extensive list of Hot Tub manufacturers and related industries, with the help of ASAP, that have joined together to work with the CEC in effort to make any transition as easy as it can be for the industry. The contributions from these industry leaders have been financial as well as advisory. As an industry leader, is Artic involved with this?
Are you referring to the ASPA Growth Initiative? Arctic has contributed financially (we're top of the right hand column here http://www.apsp.org/210/index.aspx) and our VP Marketing serves on the steering committee.
On another matter, we have some 250 dealers in 24 countries. That is small compared to other companies, but does give us a recognizable presence. And we're still growing. We have made a splash in Canada (we have been recognized as one of Canada's 50 Best Managed companies) and have won a couple of International Business Awards (one was for Best Designer). But we really don't make a big deal of these - our awards are not prominently displayed on our web site and are a little hard to find.
Soak-king - When the CEC standards were first released, we checked our test data against the CEC figures and we were well above their requirements.
It is our opinion that the CEC ambient test temperature is far too warm, and we are urging the Canadian government to adopt a standard with an ambient more representative of the Canadian climate. The mean annual temperature here is 7C (40F) compared to the 15C (60F) used in the CEC standard. The mean winter temperature is -12C (10F). We support the lower temperature and test to that standard.
Whew! Have I answered everybody's questions?
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Good job Tom.
Take the rest of the week off.
8-)
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Dear Steve,
I'm sorry if my line of questioning seems intense. I am, after all, asking questions about Arctic, in a thread titled Ask an Artic Dealer anything. Intensity aside, if my questions are too tough, inappropriate or rude, please let me know.
I thought I did? :-/ Nobody said anything about "tough"... I certainly didn't nor did anyone else I believe.
I'll be happy to answer your Caldera questions to the best of my ability.
It has no interest to me but thanks for the offer.
As far as Caldera Energy Efficiency Studies I’ll offer this and I am sure many of the other Watkins Dealers in the forum would agree.
I am sure there are volumes of testing data and research information locked snuggly in the vaults of Watkins Mfg in southern Calif. I have no doubt that there is no other spa manufacturer out there that does as much R/D on a product as Watkins.
Why? Because they said so at one of the conferences? It may be really hard for you to believe that other manufacturers make this a priority... ::)
I also know the research is expensive and proprietary. I can not imagine that you, or I, or anyone else would have an easy time getting our hands on the data.
Which makes it a moot point and something not worthy of debating. Posturing included..
I prefer a simpler testing method for Caldera in my area. I ask my Caldera clients how much it costs to run their spa when they visits my store.
IMO, consumers have NO CLUE about the operational costs of spa once it's in their yard. They can compare against the previous years bills and that's about as scientific as it gets. We've all had customers come back into the store and tell us, "my damn tub is costing me close to $100/month to run." ::) I've been around this forum for YEARS and read 'em all... ;)
Get them to meter their spa. That's when you get accurate data and not guesswork.
I also have faith in Watkins that when these mandated energy standards go into effect, Caldera will pass with flying colors.
I believe most will but that just my opinion.
I am sorry these questions seem tough. I sell hottubs, but I am also a citizen. It was earth day yesterday and the price of oil hit $119 a barrel.
Again, Caldera and every other major line of spas all operate within a few bucks a month of each other and I'm basing that off of 15 years in this industry. That's my opinion and although certain brands claim superiority on everything from energy effiencty to "the most comfortable spa", no one (including Watkins ) holds the title just yet.
These aren't tough questions but I appreciate your overall concern of the industry.
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Power consumption is one thing with spa's, but how long with all this green building stuff going on till it hits the small builders, and probably some large ones as well. I am not talking about the spa itself, but how the spa is built?
I know Jacuzzi and Sundance spent a few million on a air handling system, I am sure HS has as well. I remember going to the Artesian's factory n Victorville, Ca the place smelled of resin/epoxy and guys were hand rolling fiberglass on the shell of the spa with no mask/ventilation what so ever. That probably has changed with their new factory?
I am sure there are a lot of other smaller places building spa's with little or no regard for the environment and I would imagine the government will catch up to them at some point?
Thoughts?? Same question to the Canadians
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Again, Caldera and every other major line of spas all operate within a few bucks a month of each other and I'm basing that off of 15 years in this industry. That's my opinion and although certain brands claim superiority on everything from energy effiencty to "the most comfortable spa", no one (including Watkins ) holds the title just yet.
mmmm not 100% true.
We have meter tested spas in our area for about 6 years and at one point we had Sundance, Artesian, Catalina and Hotspring spas on our floor and of the 4 comparable sized and option featured spas (ie circ pump, insulation types etc..) our Hotspring line was $10 - $25 cheaper to operate than any of the others. But then of course this will always vary depending on where you live etc.
every now and then any spa manufacture will have a bad egg here and there which can lead to some pretty harsh brand bashing.
But ultimately its what the customer finds is important to them not all the spa jargin that we tend to ramble off at them
and no one will probably EVER hold ANY of those "official" titles until there is a nation wide standard.
but as of now there are some companies that do more than others to show their customers that they are selling an energy efficient product.
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Again, Caldera and every other major line of spas all operate within a few bucks a month of each other and I'm basing that off of 15 years in this industry. That's my opinion and although certain brands claim superiority on everything from energy effiencty to "the most comfortable spa", no one (including Watkins ) holds the title just yet.
I'm not so sure I agree with you. I'll bet there is more variation in the operating costs of the top spa makers out there (say the top 10 or so) than you think but that is just my opinion and neither of us has the data to back up our opinions. While the customer's individual spa can be answered simpler with a meter, I'm hoping the CDC movement will be the starting point to a way to get all spa brands in line. I see Tom post about Canada doing something similar and think that is great. I even think it would be fine if they were to start with not so tough standards just to get a baseline; then squeeze those brands who are less than great performers by toughening the standards over time.
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Power consumption is one thing with spa's, but how long with all this green building stuff going on till it hits the small builders, and probably some large ones as well. I am not talking about the spa itself, but how the spa is built?
I know Jacuzzi and Sundance spent a few million on a air handling system, I am sure HS has as well. I remember going to the Artesian's factory n Victorville, Ca the place smelled of resin/epoxy and guys were hand rolling fiberglass on the shell of the spa with no mask/ventilation what so ever. That probably has changed with their new factory?
I am sure there are a lot of other smaller places building spa's with little or no regard for the environment and I would imagine the government will catch up to them at some point?
Thoughts?? Same question to the Canadians
thats a big reason why so many mfgs are leaving california. Olhausen billiards left for many reasons and keeping things clean as possible is one thing where its hard for companies to do without spending big chunks of money.
i hope its better in NV for Artesian now because i remember that smell and it was horrid
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thats a big reason why so many mfgs are leaving california. Olhausen billiards left for many reasons and keeping things clean as possible is one thing where its hard for companies to do without spending big chunks of money.
i hope its better in NV for Artesian now because i remember that smell and it was horrid
Could have been why they built in Nevada in stead of Ca, that or property cost?
I remember someone telling me that if a spa manufacturer wants to build a factory in California,they have to double or triple the quality of air handling system than the last guy that built, something along those lines?
Either way, it must be hell to try and build a factory in Ca and tell them you want to manufacture something!!
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imagine the air handling system manufactures....
" psshh you kidding me? we're not going to build a factory in CA!! even WE cant meet those standards" ;D
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Could have been why they built in Nevada in stead of Ca, that or property cost?
I remember someone telling me that if a spa manufacturer wants to build a factory in California,they have to double or triple the quality of air handling system than the last guy that built, something along those lines?
Either way, it must be hell to try and build a factory in Ca and tell them you want to manufacture something!!
Maybe that's part of the reason when Watkins needed to add manufacturing capability they went to Mexico?? It was not just for cheaper labor, but also because the standards in California are not business friendly. Now, having said that, the Watkins' facility in Mexico is state-of-the-art. Major air handling systems and even showers for the workers. Lots of people there don't have running hot water.
And JJ, yes, Watkins does have VOC elimination systems in their factory. They don't even produce enough VOC to need it, but they have it anyway, just to be enviro-friendly. Of course, they don't have anything for fiberglass since they don't fiberglass at that facility.
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mmmm not 100% true.
We have meter tested spas in our area for about 6 years and at one point we had Sundance, Artesian, Catalina and Hotspring spas on our floor and of the 4 comparable sized and option featured spas (ie circ pump, insulation types etc..) our Hotspring line was $10 - $25 cheaper to operate than any of the others. But then of course this will always vary depending on where you live etc.
every now and then any spa manufacture will have a bad egg here and there which can lead to some pretty harsh brand bashing.
But ultimately its what the customer finds is important to them not all the spa jargin that we tend to ramble off at them
and no one will probably EVER hold ANY of those "official" titles until there is a nation wide standard.
but as of now there are some companies that do more than others to show their customers that they are selling an energy efficient product.
100% not true? $10 -25 per month difference? Or are you talking per year? Come on... I didn't just fall off the turnip truck... ::) I'm talking the main stream spas that we all hear about on here. Similar units, jets pump sizes, etc. With all due respect, I call BS.
Let me take a different angle here. So using the extreme in your numbers and using an average operating cost of the average spa at $40 per month, then you are suggesting that one of those lines that you mentioned was running close to $70 per month to operate? Which one? And we're not even talking an Alberta climate here? Catalina is the weakest quality of those but I dunno if I'm buying that data...
I know this forum gets used to pump up the Watkins machine at any cost but come on... :-?
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James; can I ask why you have this intense curiosity on Arctic specifically? As a Caldera dealer, is this for ammunition to sell against them? :-? Can I ask what studies are available to US from Caldera to show a comparison in efficiency?
Arctic seems to be one of the few manufacturers that has done outside testing on their spas (info has been available to the general public for years) and has gone through the expense of building a low-temperature test chamber at the plant.
With all due respect to Arctic and yourself, most any major brand has very similar operating costs within a few $ a month of each other. Really a moot point... :-/
And for the record, EVERY manufacturer claims superior energy efficiency... nothing new there...
Steve-o,
You cunfuddle me. In one post you ask "Can I ask what studies are available to US from Caldera to show a comparison in efficiency?" then, once I answer, you tell me it's of no interest to you.
James
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Goarctic, thanks for starting this thread, it seems to be bringing a lot of good queries.
If I don't answer a question right away, it doesn't mean I'm "glossing over it" or ignoring it. I try to make time to check the forums once a day but sometimes I have job deadlines that prevent that. Please, I ask your patience and forbearance.
As I said, that's okay. I might sound a little harried in the paragraph above. Actually, I am. :o
These are good and interesting questions. When our factory was TUV certified (TUV is the European version of UL, ETL, or CSA), the TUV people had a Canadian associate engineer who drove out to inspect the factory and filled in a bunch of forms. Based on his report, TUV issued the certificate. Perhaps the CEC certification is similar? I'll get back to you.
I'll have to find out. TUV did this. The certificate is posted on the TUV site and anyone can view it. I know you're curious. Go to http://tuvamerica.com/tools/clientlists/certs.cfm and search for Blue Falls Manufacturing in the category Certificate Holder. You will find three certificates under our name. Click to view each in turn.
Are you referring to the ASPA Growth Initiative? Arctic has contributed financially (we're top of the right hand column here http://www.apsp.org/210/index.aspx) and our VP Marketing serves on the steering committee.
On another matter, we have some 250 dealers in 24 countries. That is small compared to other companies, but does give us a recognizable presence. And we're still growing. We have made a splash in Canada (we have been recognized as one of Canada's 50 Best Managed companies) and have won a couple of International Business Awards (one was for Best Designer). But we really don't make a big deal of these - our awards are not prominently displayed on our web site and are a little hard to find.
Soak-king - When the CEC standards were first released, we checked our test data against the CEC figures and we were well above their requirements.
It is our opinion that the CEC ambient test temperature is far too warm, and we are urging the Canadian government to adopt a standard with an ambient more representative of the Canadian climate. The mean annual temperature here is 7C (40F) compared to the 15C (60F) used in the CEC standard. The mean winter temperature is -12C (10F). We support the lower temperature and test to that standard.
Whew! Have I answered everybody's questions?
Great answers, Tom.
I was under no illusion that you'd either dodge or shrink from my direct questions.
Nor am I surprised that Arctic is involved with APSP.
That said I am a little dubious of a CEC certified testing facility in Canada. It just doesn’t sound right. Let me know otherwise and I’ll be happy to eat crow.
Over all, great answers.
James
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That said I am a little dubious of a CEC certified testing facility in Canada. It just doesn’t sound right. Let me know otherwise and I’ll be happy to eat crow.
It didn't take long to find this spreadsheet list of CEC approved labs.
http://www.energy.ca.gov/appliances/appliance/forms_instructions_cert/approved_test_laboratories/2008_list_of_approved_labs/All%20Approved%20Test%20Laboratories%202008.xls
Several of the approved sites are in Canada and many other parts of the world. For this, perhaps you might nibble on a tailfeather. :D
As for "Portable Electric Spas", Artesian, Bullfrog, Diamante/Sensation, Master, Nordic, Sundance, and Thermospas have approved labs. We aren't listed, so on the basis of that, you might want to pass me the plate. :-[
I will investigate further, but may not have time to do this for a couple of days.
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That's my opinion and although certain brands claim superiority on everything from energy effiencty to "the most comfortable spa", no one (including Watkins ) holds the title just yet.
I can tell you one title which Watkins holds - "Most lines of spas offered."
I now have the following on my showroom floor -
- HotSpring Portable Spas
- Tiger River Spas
- Caldera Hot Tubs (four lines here as well...)
- Aquatic Melodies Series
- Utopia Series
- Paradise Series
- Highland Series (Same as Hot Spot)[/i]
- Limelight Spas
- Hot Spot Spas
- Solana Spas
8-)
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Tom,
Frankly, I don't have a lot of confidence in the following list you can download from from CEC:
http://www.energy.ca.gov/appliances/appliance/excel_based_files/Pool_Products/
However, why don't I see Arctic Spas on the list?
For that matter, where is Sundance and Jacuzzi? Not to mention Marquis? (this question is for all not for Tom.)
What is a CEC approved lab? I thought the industry was working with Cal Poly San Luis Obisbo as a neutral site.
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I can tell you one title which Watkins holds - "Most lines of spas offered."
I now have the following on my showroom floor -
- HotSpring Portable Spas
- Tiger River Spas
- Caldera Hot Tubs
- Limelight Spas
- Hot Spot Spas
- Solana Spas
8-)
yippee!!!
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Frankly, I don't have a lot of confidence in the following list you can download from from CEC
We've had many who express that opinion.
However, why don't I see Arctic Spas on the list?
There are no Canadian spas on that initial list.
What is a CEC approved lab?
See my previous post for a listing of approved labs
I thought the industry was working with Cal Poly San Luis Obisbo as a neutral site.
Phase I of the testing at Cal Poly is to clarify the CA Title 20 Regulation and address areas of concern to the industry. Clarifying the CA Regulation is important as it impacts Oregon’s law which is based on Title 20. Also, Florida, New Jersey and other states are contemplating “Title 20 like” legislation, as is Canada. I suspect that the Canadian Office of Energy Efficiency is holding off on devising our standards until the NPIRC testing is complete.
Phase II of the Cal Poly testing is to begin developing the new APSP 14 Standard for the Energy Efficiency of Self-Contained Portable Electric Spas and Hot Tubs
SCOPE: This standard is to cover the test procedures and methodology for determining the energy efficiency of self-contained portable electric spas. The intent of the test procedures is to influence the design and construction specifications of such spas to maximize energy efficiency.
And see what interesting results we get when someone says, "Ask an Arctic Dealer anything"? I took it to mean "about the company or its products", myself, but this is far more fun.
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To clarify my questions:
What are the standards for a CEC lab? How does one get set up?
OK. There are no Canadian spas on the initial list. This list is ongoing with spas listed from 2006 to 2008. In fact there are less than 200 spa models on the list. Just because there are no Canadian spas on the list is no reason that I know of that a company can't be the 1st on the list. My understanding is when the rules go into effect in CA, in June, a spa will have to on the list to be legally sold in CA.
One more question, Tom. Ballpark, what does it cost to get a spa certified. My understanding has been a manufacturer self tests based on criteria you mentioned before. Said manufacturer submits its findings. There is no review process. Shouldn't be too difficult to be certified.
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To clarify my questions:
What are the standards for a CEC lab? How does one get set up?
Go to this site as I think the information is there: http://www.energy.ca.gov/appliances/forms/
My understanding is when the rules go into effect in CA, in June, a spa will have to on the list to be legally sold in CA.
In which case, I guess we'll have to have our results in!
One more question, Tom. Ballpark, what does it cost to get a spa certified. My understanding has been a manufacturer self tests based on criteria you mentioned before. Said manufacturer submits its findings. There is no review process. Shouldn't be too difficult to be certified.
Darned if I know the cost, and will probably be told to MYOB if I ask. The lack of a review process should be of concern to the consumer. We've debated this before and IMHO it should go to join the other horsey corpses.
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Realistically you can only squeeze so much juice out of an orange and the same will be with spa's. How much energy use can you really reduce in a spa. The same can be said for dryers, refrigerators, stoves and dishwashers. At some point they will realize this. They can test till they are blue in the face in controlled and uncontrolled situations, but spas can only be so efficient, unless they come up with some kind of alternative power.
Nuclear??? Or better yet the Flux capacitor. (http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd6/JimA81/11242.jpg)
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100% not true? $10 -25 per month difference? Or are you talking per year? Come on... I didn't just fall off the turnip truck... ::) I'm talking the main stream spas that we all hear about on here. Similar units, jets pump sizes, etc. With all due respect, I call BS.
Let me take a different angle here. So using the extreme in your numbers and using an average operating cost of the average spa at $40 per month, then you are suggesting that one of those lines that you mentioned was running close to $70 per month to operate? Which one? And we're not even talking an Alberta climate here? Catalina is the weakest quality of those but I dunno if I'm buying that data...
I know this forum gets used to pump up the Watkins machine at any cost but come on... :-?
Actually I'm very serious the Catalina XL 11000 at the time with a circ pump and similar features was $25 more to operate per month over a 6 month period than a Grandee. Optima was the closest at $10 more then the Onyx from Artesian was about $14 more.
We did the test for our customers while we sold all of those brands at that time. 2 years ago to be exact. As of now we only sell Watkins products and no longer display that because we have not tested new models of the other spas but our at home test that we do every year on a customers spa shows that a vanguard pulls an average per month cost of $30.95. That's 4127kw used in a years time @ $.09 per KW hour (which was the customers rate) and totals $374.43 for one years use. Customer kept their spa at 101 degrees and drained it twice and used it as they pleased.
and no im in the Mojave desert where it goes from 101-104 during the day to 20-30 at night on our desert floor.
Merlin
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Wow, I am glad I live in Pennsylvania!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
I am going to go spray some hairspray and burn some styrofoam (just kidding) :o
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Realistically you can only squeeze so much juice out of an orange and the same will be with spa's. How much energy use can you really reduce in a spa. The same can be said for dryers, refrigerators, stoves and dishwashers. At some point they will realize this. They can test till they are blue in the face in controlled and uncontrolled situations, but spas can only be so efficient, unless they come up with some kind of alternative power.
I don't think they're necessarily trying to hold the feet to the fire for spa makers that already make energy efficient spas. They need to get a baseline and see where everyone is. What I hope to see from this is the less efficient high volume spa makers get their act together. If Master is going to sell 10k plus spas a year it would be nice if they were at least decent in the energy efficiency department (I only name them because of all the "major" brands I see more complaints about this from their customers than any other). Some spa makers just seem to have a fancy story that they tell potential customers about how they insulate and promise it'll work well but hopefully the proof will have to be in the pudding soon.
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I can tell you one title which Watkins holds - "Most lines of spas offered."
I now have the following on my showroom floor -
- HotSpring Portable Spas
- Tiger River Spas
- Caldera Hot Tubs
- Limelight Spas
- Hot Spot Spas
- Solana Spas
8-)
Jacuzzi owns Sundance, Jacuzzi has the 200,300 and 400 series. Sundance has the 600,700 and 800 series. I see it as a tie. 8-)
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But why is there no 500 series????? :-?
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I could tell ya, but then Id have to kill you. ;D
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Jacuzzi owns Sundance, Jacuzzi has the 200,300 and 400 series. Sundance has the 600,700 and 800 series. I see it as a tie. 8-)
Well, if we're getting specific, Caldera has the Aquatic Melodies, Utopia Series, Paradise Series and the Highland Series. I think that puts Watkins back in front. ;D
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I'll try to get this thread back on topic.
Is Chinook a real bear? If so, is he kept in a cage or in a natural habitat enclosure? Is he owned by Blue Falls Manufacturing or is he rented?
We used to rent a Bengal Tiger to use at home shows. He would sit on a rock ledge and when you pulled his tail, he would roar and it would reverberate throughout the convention center. But, he would pee on the floor, so we quit using him.
Term
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I'll try to get this thread back on topic.
Is Chinook a real bear? If so, is he kept in a cage or in a natural habitat enclosure? Is he owned by Blue Falls Manufacturing or is he rented?
Term
"Chinook" is the name of the mascott for Arctic Spas. He's not a real bear.
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We used to rent a Bengal Tiger to use at home shows. He would sit on a rock ledge and when you pulled his tail, he would roar and it would reverberate throughout the convention center. But, he would pee on the floor, so we quit using him.
I'd guess that his tendency to eat show visitors was a nuisance, too, though I'm sure he only consumed people who bought from another booth. ::)
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Is Chinook a real bear? If so, is he kept in a cage or in a natural habitat enclosure? Is he owned by Blue Falls Manufacturing or is he rented?
Chinook is a real stuffed bear owned by Arctic Spas. He lives in his natural habitat, which is a dry spa in our factory showroom. He is thoroughly housebroken and well-behaved. Visitors often ask to have their picture taken with him.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s173/ArcticTom/Chinooksmall.jpg)
Here is a quote from a corporate document called "Arctic Spas: the first decade".
The company’s new signature line, Arctic Spas®, was conceived as a cold-climate product. The tag line “Engineered for the world’s harshest climates” reflected this with its image of strength and toughness. Even the new logo, a stylized polar bear, snarled in defiance.
Old "Grumbles McSnarly" was replaced with the friendlier "Chinook" in a rebranding campaign around 2004. I guess by then we were no longer feeling like an endangered species and could afford to smile a bit. ;) ;D
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That's pretty cool! Grumbles McSnarly! ;D ;D ;D
Who is the person that dresses up in the Chinook costume at the dealer conference? Is it one of the employees and do they get paid extra? I know those costumes are very uncomfortable...oh yeah, ya'll went to the ice hotel, so I bet it was NICE wearing the Chinook outfit. Ya'll are some hardy souls having to deal with those kinds of temps!
Does the mascot attend trade shows? Is he allowed to speak or must he remain mute like at Disneyworld?
Term
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No he loves to talk and ramble a lot like some guy we know from Texas!
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No he loves to talk and ramble a lot like some guy we know from Texas!
I do love to talk and I am a bit of a ramblin' man! I'm ramblin' to Kentucky next week to pick up two bottles of whiskey from the Maker's Mark distillery in Loretto.
I would be a terrible mascot. Someone would probably shoot me if I were dressed up like a bear and ramblin' through their backyard and digging in their tater patch. :-[
Does Arctic sponsor events like snowmobile or sled dog races? If so, are spas displayed?
Term
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I do love to talk and I am a bit of a ramblin' man! I'm ramblin' to Kentucky next week to pick up two bottles of whiskey from the Maker's Mark distillery in Loretto.
I would be a terrible mascot. Someone would probably shoot me if I were dressed up like a bear and ramblin' through their backyard and digging in their tater patch. :-[
Does Arctic sponsor events like snowmobile or sled dog races? If so, are spas displayed?
Term
The local Quebec Arctic Dealer helped sponsor the Ice Hotel and 400 year Carnival in Quebec. Actually had a Arctic Spa in the middle of the hotel to soak in if you stayed.
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The local Quebec Arctic Dealer helped sponsor the Ice Hotel and 400 year Carnival in Quebec. Actually had a Arctic Spa in the middle of the hotel to soak in if you stayed.
I'll bet that was pretty slick! Did anyone get pictures?
Was Lenka there?
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/lenka.jpg)
Or Karine?
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/Karineours.jpg)
Term
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Term do this "mature woman" a favor and photoshop my head on Lenka's body. I want to email it to Mr. Spahappy. Ofcourse he'll probally say something stupid like " I remember when you looked like that...."
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Oh yeah, could you put me in a Coleman spa so it's more believable ;D ;D
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I'll bet that was pretty slick! Did anyone get pictures?
Was Lenka there?
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/lenka.jpg)
Or Karine?
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/Karineours.jpg)
Term
Terms bed! Can you believe that you have to pay to sleep there!
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj88/waylon33/web3.jpg)
Spa at the Ice Hotel
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj88/waylon33/web.jpg)
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Oh yeah, could you put me in a Coleman spa so it's more believable ;D ;D
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/happyspa1.jpg)
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Thanks but pretty sure the whole "big head" might turn him off....Oh wait let me rephraze that, I look like a cartoon character...
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(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/happyspa2.jpg)
I'm sorry, I hit the wrong button. :-[
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Terms bed! Can you believe that you have to pay to sleep there!
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj88/waylon33/web3.jpg)
Spa at the Ice Hotel
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj88/waylon33/web.jpg)
Those are great pictures! The beds look like suck, though. :P
Did ya'll get in the tub? How many people got in there at once?
Term
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And the blue bottle is?
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And the blue bottle is?
Spahappy Tonic! (Lady Viagra)
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And the blue bottle is?
Sanity!!!
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Spahappy Tonic! (Lady Viagra)
Perfect...
What you get from selling spas for 15 years...
Best Gin ever made...
Go Juice....
Only two points a shot on weight watchers.....
My favorite color
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Perfect...
What you get from selling spas for 15 years...
Actually, I have sold for 22 years, and I now have a small fortune.
The bad news is that I started with a large fortune....
8-)
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Those are great pictures! The beds look like suck, though. :P
Did ya'll get in the tub? How many people got in there at once?
Term
A few dealers got in I believe, I should have that was the coldest I have ever been. Ive endured some cold days before, but nothing like a couple hours at the Ice Hotel. I think Im just now getting feeling back in my toes! Quebec is a very nice city though, for a North American city it has been around as long as any and well worth a visit.
It was interesting visiting the Canadian dealers, we got to tour a Arctic Store in Quebec, and it was very beneficial to see how they do things.
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Goarctic==
Just came back from the Arctic/Dynasty dealer and WOW what a difference!!
Forst we jumped in the Dynasty and were greatly disappointed in the force of the jets in comparison to floating. Plus, hubby didn't fint under the reverse neck jets. Then we jumped in the Klondiker and WOW what therapy without being pushed out!!
SO, we visited a customer of the dealer with the Tundra, (though we couldn't wet test it) and it is a nice, deep spa. THe owner said she is going to try to order one in with all the stuff we want in the colors we want (no obligation!!) for us to see/try and go from there.
One question I do have is, the website lists 8 different spa shell colors. The owner thought there are new colors in addition (or replaceing) the old. Can you tell me if there are?? SHe is going to see about having the samples overnighted to her for us to see. (there were alot of samples there but they sell Arctic. Dynasty and Nordic.)
Well, Hoping to be joining the Arctic club!! I'll change my forum name to "Iwannabeapolarbear!"
;D ;D ;D
Chrisi ;)
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Chrisi, and don't forget that Arctic chiller option. ;D ;D ;D The Arctic was very nice, I didn't wet test but if I could I would have been where you are at. Jacuzzi was the best for our location because of dealer.
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Goarctic==
Just came back from the Arctic/Dynasty dealer and WOW what a difference!!
Forst we jumped in the Dynasty and were greatly disappointed in the force of the jets in comparison to floating. Plus, hubby didn't fint under the reverse neck jets. Then we jumped in the Klondiker and WOW what therapy without being pushed out!!
SO, we visited a customer of the dealer with the Tundra, (though we couldn't wet test it) and it is a nice, deep spa. THe owner said she is going to try to order one in with all the stuff we want in the colors we want (no obligation!!) for us to see/try and go from there.
One question I do have is, the website lists 8 different spa shell colors. The owner thought there are new colors in addition (or replaceing) the old. Can you tell me if there are?? SHe is going to see about having the samples overnighted to her for us to see. (there were alot of samples there but they sell Arctic. Dynasty and Nordic.)
Well, Hoping to be joining the Arctic club!! I'll change my forum name to "Iwannabeapolarbear!"
;D ;D ;D
Chrisi ;)
WWHT
The colors on the website are all the colors available for 2008. Their are not any more new colors to be introduced in 2008 that I know of. The new ones that were introduced in 2008 are Silk, Cameo, Denim, Mocha, and Bath White. Ive seen them all, and my fav is Cameo white, its bling blingly when built with stainless steel jets! Great to hear that the wet test went well, Arctic doesnt get as much credit as deserved for the comfort of their jets.
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Goractic, Tom or Waterboy,
New question about the colors available. Having just got off the phone with my dealer, she said there is a TUndra LE available in the factory with the grey maint. free cabinet, and at first, she thought the shell color was silk. Now she corrected herself and said the color of the shell is Desert (desert horizon??)
So, having been back on the Arctic website for North America, I didn't see Desert horizon as a color. Then, I checked the Europe Arctic website, and found they have graphite (I am soooo jealous--my fave color!!) and Desert Horizon, with no silk, cameo, or bath white, or denim. So, is it possible that the shell is in Desert, and is there one main manufacturing plant for all /most countries? Or, did she receive wrong information. (she has a call placed to her rep)
The pix on the Europe site with different colors are nice.
Thanks guys. THis is driving us nuts. :o :o :-?
CHrisi :)
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Chrisi, and don't forget that Arctic chiller option. ;D ;D ;D The Arctic was very nice, I didn't wet test but if I could I would have been where you are at. Jacuzzi was the best for our location because of dealer.
What exactly is the chiller function???
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Goractic, Tom or Waterboy,
New question about the colors available. Having just got off the phone with my dealer, she said there is a TUndra LE available in the factory with the grey maint. free cabinet, and at first, she thought the shell color was silk. Now she corrected herself and said the color of the shell is Desert (desert horizon??)
So, having been back on the Arctic website for North America, I didn't see Desert horizon as a color. Then, I checked the Europe Arctic website, and found they have graphite (I am soooo jealous--my fave color!!) and Desert Horizon, with no silk, cameo, or bath white, or denim. So, is it possible that the shell is in Desert, and is there one main manufacturing plant for all /most countries? Or, did she receive wrong information. (she has a call placed to her rep)
The pix on the Europe site with different colors are nice.
Thanks guys. THis is driving us nuts. :o :o :-?
CHrisi :)
WWHT,
Desert Horizon is a color that was available until 2008. It could be shown on the Europe website because their spas are probably manufactured in Canada and then shipped across the big pond at once. So they may have some left over in the warehouse. Im sure that Arctic had some Desert Horizon shells left over in 2008 that they made some spas from. Its no longer available though on custom ordered spas.
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What exactly is the chiller function???
The chiller function is a option available on all Arctic Spas, it has a cooling unit located inside the spa cabinet that actually cools the water, instead of heating it. This option becomes a nice feature for warmer climates, or in summer months in the cooler climates.
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Hey TERM -
Nice avatar - is that Sam W?
8-)
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The chiller function is a option available on all Arctic Spas, it has a cooling unit located inside the spa cabinet that actually cools the water, instead of heating it. This option becomes a nice feature for warmer climates, or in summer months in the cooler climates.
I live in South Texas, wish there was an Artic dealer close to try that here! It gets HOT here!
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I live in South Texas, wish there was an Artic dealer close to try that here! It gets HOT here!
Looks like a business oppturnity to me. Here is your chance to test your business skills. Tom can get you in contact with the right people.
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Really not too many Arctic dealers in Texas at all. The further south you go in Texas, the fewer hot tubs are sold. Houston has always been a difficult market for a good retailer to make it. Even bad retailers with lots of advertising don't make it. Rec Warehouse tried it in Houston and didn't make it. Not that this means an Arctic dealer couldn't make it. This is just a tough market altogether.