Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: hottubdan on April 16, 2008, 12:51:18 am
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(With apologies to Fred)
In another thread I posed this question, and made it sound personal. For that I apologize, Fred.
My question is:
What are the ethics of traveling to a dealer you know you are not going to buy from and wet testing. The situations I seem to see here are when someone wants to buy a particular model and the local dealer cannot or will not run it. Then I read about traveling across the state to wet test. This takes dealer's time and effort with no compensation.
Just curious what you all think.
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(With apologies to Fred)
In another thread I posed this question, and made it sound personal. For that I apologize, Fred.
My question is:
What are the ethics of traveling to a dealer you know you are not going to buy from and wet testing. The situations I seem to see here are when someone wants to buy a particular model and the local dealer cannot or will not run it. Then I read about traveling across the state to wet test. This takes dealer's time and effort with no compensation.
Just curious what you all think.
I'm not a dealer but have owned a few businesses. When people do things only for compensation then the world gets a little off the mark. Good things come to people who do things for the right reasons. I as a customer are put off by the dealer who says I will only service it if I sold it. If you are a network of a brand of spa's I would think you would look out for each other. I buy a Ford but any Ford dealership will service it. If I help another dealer sell a model then the market share for that brand just increased. Why does Jacuzzi Jim help promote Jacuzzi's on this site? Or others promote what they sell. They take pride in the line and want to help. Call me crazy but I don't think it hurts to promote your line even if you know another store will get the sale. Who knows the reverse may happen soon and you will profit. Just my 2 cents worth....
Scott ;)
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If everyone is up and front, it isn't unusual for franchises to cooperate. We know not every dealer can have every configuration ready to go. Now off to read the original thread you talked about to see what I missed.
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HTD,
I know this doesn't answer your question but...if a dealer does not offer wet testing, then he/she is not worthy of my business...it is a reflection of customer service to me...$.02...
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I know when I was looking for my spa some places did not allow wet testing because of insurance reasons. They told me because some people do not know they have a medical problem and should not be in a hot tub.
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I know when I was looking for my spa some places did not allow wet testing because of insurance reasons. They told me because some people do not know they have a medical problem and should not be in a hot tub.
Yeah...these are the same guys that own restaurants that won't cook my steak medium rare...I don't go there either... 8-)
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My $.02 worth--------
If a consumer is interested in a tub, and I am not saying some people are just out wet testing with no intention to buy, but SERIOUSLY interested, why shouldn't they be offered the chance to wet test? Wouldn't this be the biggest selling feature of the tub?? Of course, one may find the tub is not quite right. But, then there would be less buyer remorse. And, the dealer would have a good reputation of working with the customer and taking great strides to make a sale. And, as we seem to all agree on, the dealer is half the sale.
My point of view is, if you are spending 6-15k for a tub, why WOULDN"T you test it?? Maybe I am straying from the original topic--traveling far and wide for tubs...
When we traveled 2.5 hours to look at an Artesian, our intention is to rule it in or out as what we want to buy. We have never heard back from the dealer (owner) who was not in that evening, and the salesman left a message for him. All in all, we did not yet wet test it, and probably won't ONLY because there are too many other fees and costs to consider when getting this tub.
I have found many of the dealers we have spoken with are resisitant ot helping a potential customer wet test, and we have been open with all about what we are looking at.
Dan, to look at the other point of view, the Owners side, I have often thought about the work involved to get at customer to wet test. I have wondered, as well, the possibility of transferring the water from one tub to the next and does this save? :-/
Let us know what the dealers' really think??
Chrisi
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I know when I was looking for my spa some places did not allow wet testing because of insurance reasons. They told me because some people do not know they have a medical problem and should not be in a hot tub.
I think that is a load of cr*p. If that really was the issue, wouldn't they post a disclaimer??
Probably just an excuse... ;)
The nurse in me does agree that there are medical issues, but that should be discussed BEFORE an agreement to wet test. And, have it in writing, if that really is the case, since insurance is involved. But realistically, what would these "sickly" people do for a bath, then?? Most spas are at a bathwater temperature. IMO, I mean. HMMMMM.....
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I know when I was looking for my spa some places did not allow wet testing because of insurance reasons. They told me because some people do not know they have a medical problem and should not be in a hot tub.
Then they should refuse to sell you one without a doctor's approval - or will cash change their "liability"
Back to the original topic - I traveled to another store to wet test a spa (30 minutes) in another state and ended up buying it there. He was $700 cheaper and my local dealer would even consider changing his price. He didn't even want to know what price I was asking him to match.
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Life is too short to squabble over every nickel and dime. My philosophy has always been to take care of the customer and they will take care of you. When txwillie was spa shopping last year, I invited him to come to my store and try out one of the spas he was interested in although there was nothing in it for me. I look at it as an opportunity to make friends and spread good cheer.
I have sold 2 spas in the last week for existing customers of mine and I am trying to sell another. I receive no remuneration for my efforts, it is simply a gratuity for them having invested in our company at some point and I am happy to oblige.
In the effort of going above and beyond the call of duty, I am meeting today with a Rainbow vacuum cleaner salesman in order to help out one of my customers. My customer, his brother, his parents, and 3 of his co-workers have all bought HotSpring Spas from me over the last 5 years. When he called and asked if I would listen to a sales pitch so that he could receive $500 worth of accessories for his unit, I said Okey Dokey. Of course, while this fella is trying to sell me a vacuum cleaner, I'm going to try and sell him a hot tub.
Tune in for all of the frivolity "When Salesmen Collide".....
http://easttexasspa.dyndns.org/app/main_admin.asp
Login: guest
Password: hotspring
Terminator
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I agree. Dealers should allow and encourage wet testing. When possible the spa model customer is considering should be testable. No question there. Dealers who don't allow it are losing opportunities. I get it.
However, that misses the point.
What I hear is that dealers should allow any potential spa shopper to wet test in their store, even if there is no immediate benefit; even if it means helping a competitor sell a spa. Make no mistake; when 2 dealers or the same brand are battling over a potential sale they are competitors. I get that also. I am even ok with it. I might get the sale. It is fun to work with people.
But that also misses the point. What I am hearing is what dealers should do. I asked what the ethics of the customers should be.
Direct responses I have seen were I went out of state and bought as the closer dealer would not drop price and a distant dealer was part of a chain. Even these don't address my question.
Perhaps the answer is, its how we shop and there are no ethics involved. I don't mean it is unethical; simply there is no ethical consideration.
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It has been my experience that most customers adhere to a very loose set of "ethics" when shopping. I would conservatively estimate that more than half of the people I have talked to have lied to me at some point in the presentation that I was able to discern.
I almost always ask if the customer has looked at spas previously and many of them say "No". At some juncture of the conversation, they will mention something that is brand specific and it is obvious that they have lied to me. As innocuous as that may sound, that's fine, that is their prerogative as they don't owe me a thing, honesty included. However, I HAVE to be completely honest with them. One disingenuous word and their trust in me is broken, unlikely to be reforged. Everything I say to them must be able to withstand scrutiny...and I strive to be accountable in all facets of my business relationships.
Bottom line...customers lie like dogs. A lot of salesmen lie as well. The customer can afford to...the salesman can't. Not for the long haul, leastwise.
Terminator
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Life is too short to squabble over every nickel and dime. My philosophy has always been to take care of the customer and they will take care of you. When txwillie was spa shopping last year, I invited him to come to my store and try out one of the spas he was interested in although there was nothing in it for me. I look at it as an opportunity to make friends and spread good cheer.
Terminator
Term, you the man. This is what I'm talking about......
Scott :) :) :)
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Short story:
A father and son are walking down the sidewalk and pass a drunk who is asking for money so he can eat. The father gives him some money and they walk on. The son then ask his dad, why did you give him the money? You know he will use it to buy more wine. The father replies, I'm only responsible for my actions and I gave him money for food, if he uses it for wine then that is his responsibility.
Another story:
A mother and daughter are backing their truck out of the driveway to go do some shopping at the mall. They back over a cat and kill it. The daughter is upset and dosen't want to leave the cat in the road. They look in the backseat and find a nicely folded Nordstrom sack. They put the cat in the sack and fold the top of sack and place it in the back of the pickup. They pull up in the parking lot and start to go inside they see a lady looking in the back of the pickup and then steal the Nordstrom sack. They follow her at a distance as she walks into the food court area of the mall. When she opens the sack she falls back in her chair and hits her head on the floor and is knocked out. They call the paramedics and they put her on a stretcher and placed the folded sack on her stomach as she is wheeled out of the mall.
Moral of the stories is we get out of life what we put into it. Don't try to make your customers or your sales person honest. Just be responsible for how you conduct your life. I believe that life has away of taking care of those who do things for the right reason.
Oops I just feel off my soapbox. Dang that hurt.....
Scott ;)
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Very deep, Scott, and VERY true.
Hope you didn't bump your head!!
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With the internet people are way more informed than they were say 10 years ago, I recently bought a 46"LCD flat screen, I researched a forum called AVS maybe some of you have been there? Anyway their is more than you would ever want to know about a plasma or LCD or any other audio/video type stuff. If your in the market for a flats screen check it out!
I could have saved money buying from the internet, but I chose Circuit city, why? Because if it has a problem I want a place I can go yell at someone, even though I could have saved money ordering on the the web.
Many people I am sure research the web, find the set they want to buy, go to best buy or other, look at the set they want, waste some kids time asking questions and get a price. They then go home researches the internet finds several dealer's for that set, and buys it. He ends up saving money,doesn't pay sales tax and probably has free shipping. Was that wrong or unethical. Not really, whats the difference in the spa world?
Btm line is if a customer comes in my store to buy a spa, and wants to wet test regardless where he's been, if I cant sell him a spa no matter how hard I try, then one, I might not be a very good salesman, 2 he found something better that worked for him. Ya cant get em all.
I just spent a half hour of my time on the phone with Scott (Swell-Tub) Am I selling him a spa? No. But hey its what we do here, partly to spread market share,but mostly cause I enjoy what I do, no matter who I talk to. Other wise what are us dealers doing here?
I have had people call from Seattle to confirm prices from other dealers which is fine, I have other Jacuzzi dealers call and ask if I have a certain spa in stock and can a customer drive up and wet test? Not only yes but hell yes send em on up, as long as we agree on a time for me to be here. Its business and why were in it.
Jeez I don't even own the company but I will go out of my way to help someone, with chems, service issues which is common with the local D1 dealer, heck even people who have bought a Hot springs because they didn't want to use Baqu spa. Which they have now expanded from now. Or the local Sundance dealer who's an ass they dont want to help even their own customers they just sold a spa to with chems if they have bugged em to much. ::)
Anyway if a spa dealer or any dealer for that matter doesn't want to help someone for what ever reason related to their industry they shouldn't be in business.
One thing I should add, is if I am talking to a guy about chems and he has say a Costco spa, I will spend as much time with him as needed, if then a customer walks in and is a potential buyer, I will excuse myself form the costco guy to sell a spa or help a previous Jacuzzi owner, but I will do it nicely and return to him when done if he is still hanging around. Did I sell him a spa? No, but I am selling him his chems for the next 3 years till his spa falls apart. ;D And I most likely will have a spa sale to him when that happens. This day and age you gotta cater to the masses, their are to many place's to buy from that want their business as well.
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Hottubdan,
Thank you for your sincere apology. The problem with email and forums is that you can add all the smiley faces you want but sometimes written words can come across wrong. I'm enjoying getting to "know" all of you and have learned a lot from yous guys . (see I'm not from Texas).
Back to your original question. When we wanted to wet test the J375 and the Grandee our dealer was able to set up the test for the J375 with another store in that dealers network. (this one you already know about). Spiderman tried to find a Grandee for us to test also but was unable to. So I took it upon myself to call around and see if there was a store between here and Milwaukee that had a wet Grandee.
As I called around I explained exactly what we wanted to do. We had a local dealer we were going to buy from and were looking for a Grandee to try. EVERYONE of them was pleasant and even though they didn't have one spoke with me at length about Hotsprings and wet testing. This is I guess point number 1. When people are passionate and believe in what they are selling they love to share information with people and help them. These people in my opinion will do well with their business because customers will see their sincerity and be drawn to them.
The last dealer I called on my list had a wet Grandee. Here's where the ethics part will come in. If anyone is familiar with some of my original posts this will make sense. If your not, sorry. The last dealer I called was the dealer we originally wet tested Hot Springs at. It was the dealer that Spiderman corrected about who would be servicing our tub if we bought from a dealer located 100 miles away and seemed to interfere with the deal I was working with them.
Well they have a second store and I called and the owner answered. I asked if she had a wet Grandee and she said yes. I told her who I was and even though she never met me she certainly remembered the situation. I told her we were still shopping and would probably buy from our local dealer. She then told me that she would love to sell me a tub and would service us no problem for $45 travel. That she had been selling and servicing tubs in our area long before Spiderman opened their store.
So we set up a wet test for our ride back from testing the J375. If you've read this far here comes the important part that will speak to ethics. Were we going to buy from this dealer? More than likely not. However, she wanted a shot at selling us a tub. It was probably a long shot. The question is did I play her. Yes. If she would have been substatially lower in her price would I have bought from her. Yes but it would have had to have been a lot lower. As it turned out her "best" price was not much better than Spiderman's.
I struggled with this but decided that she really wanted a shot to sell us a tub so we gave her one. She sure didn't take advantage of the opportunity, but we did. Hottubdan on this one I question my own ethics (you just picked the wrong one). I got so caught up in the search that when I talked to this owner she was ALL salesperson, from head to toe, and I let her be; to our advantage.
Sorry for the novel and thanks for letting me share,
Fred
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Fred,
I think everything you did was fair and ethical. You were upfront with everyone. The shoppers that burn me are the ones Term described, who are not upfront with the dealer, but expect the dealer to be straight with them.
However, that is the game that is often being played. So be it.
Thanks for everyone's input.
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Many dealers I went to were not able to fill a particular spa I looked at, so I went to others in the area to try. I guess if someone came up with a better price, I may have bought from them. I didn't know how to "play" the situation. Tell the truth, or not?? It was very awkward. I think though, what goes around, comes around. If you are giving another dealer's customers a wet test, that dealer has probably done the same for you. Treat all clients as potential customers. I went to one dealer that was much further from my house because they had a particular spa I wanted to try. Though I didn't buy from them, and bought from the closer dealer, I sent a friend to them, because she was much closer to that store, and the salesman deserved a sale too.
No matter what though, all dealers will handle it differently, and all customers will as well. The customer may lie because they are afraid the dealer will turn them away, or fight for the sale (happened to me), or they just feel uncomfortable admitting to wasting someone's time. If you treat EVERYONE well, it always pays off.
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Here are the examples of 2 dealers I want to buy from- #1 sells Jacuzzi and #2 sells Arctic/Dynasty.
Having first contacted dlr #2, we were impressed by the "we'll let you look around" and no pressure sales. The tub we first looked at was sold, and when I called back to see if we would be able to wet test--the tub was already gone. But they ordered a new tub in colors we like to be able to wet test with NO OBLIGATION. Since then, I have added a tub or 2 more We'd like to try, and these are Arctics they don't stock. They have costomers with the same tubs that are WILLING to allow us to wet test. And, they are willing to work out any deal.
Dlr #1 we only recently interacted with, when we first called to see if a 470 was available, they told us one was on the way, about 2 weeks. The spa came in and we were contacted right away, and we were also informed the 480 would be drained, moved and the 470 would be filled so we could wet test. Again, no pressure tactics, we informed him there are other tubs we are looking at. And, he is giving us a GREAT deal.
That will be my only sadness in all of this, it's like having 2 boyfriends ( ::)) and not being able to decide which one to marry!! ;D ;D ;D ;). Someone will lose out, but I guess that is part of the business.
Both have been great, both are very accomodating, and I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND BOTH DEALERS IN THE PITTSBURGH AREA!!!
What a fork in the road lies ahead.
Just my $.02 worth!! again... ;)
Chrisi