Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Spatini on April 16, 2008, 11:57:21 pm
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As a new comer and a very research driven type of guy I'm trying to figure out all the chems needed, and have come across Clearwater Blue which is a lot like Rainforest Blue that Dr. Spa sells at RHtubs, any way a link to clearwater blue is
http://www.spadepot.com/shop/Cleanwater-Blue-Pro-Supplies-Kit-P438C67.aspx
now if this stuff works why not use it ? or Nature 2 , seems like technology has to come up with new and easier ways to keep water clean and safe , I did note that you still shock with mps or dichlor in Rainforest and Clearwater and use those ocassionaly , which would seem to sanitze and not have to smell so bad and be so corrosive to covers and the like .I'm sure the thoughts and comments of those more in the know will help us that are only starting to learn.
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That appears to be a private label. I've not heard of the brand before. A lot of places get their chems private labeled. If that is the case, really no telling who they buy it from. Copper in spas is not common. It is a pretty good algaecide on the pool side. Just don't see a lot of it with spas. It is probably just fine.
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KISS...not with the lips but with simplicity! Dichlor/bromine are tried and true...I would venture to say 99% of the users on this board are either dichlor or bromine users, some with N2 supplementing, some not...some shocking primarily with MPS, some with dichlor...and each would feel their routine is not difficult at all. Except if there were an allergic reaction to dichlor or bromine, I feel that looking beyond them at other sanitizing methods is futile. Stick with the tried and true and enjoy your nice, clean tub! 8-)
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Copper has been used in pools and spa for some time. I saw a copper ionization system used over 10 years ago with great success. Copper can be added to the water by a machine or by a liquid. Clearwater Blue is just a liquid version of nature 2. Adding 0.5 ppm of copper to the water is the same as adding 50 nature 2 cartridges to your spa. It will work very well and you will find it cheaper than replacing nature 2 cartridges every 4 months. Be sure not to over dose your copper. O.D. copper leads to stains on the spa, jets, and even green hair. (in extreme cases)
Dont let the "followers" scare you out of trying something new. In ten years most people will have gotten away from chloring and bromine. You can either switch then and be a follower, or try something now and be on the cutting edge of technology.
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Dont let the "followers" scare you out of trying something new. In ten years most people will have gotten away from chloring and bromine. You can either switch then and be a follower, or try something now and be on the cutting edge of technology.[/quote]
not scared to try something new , and for me its all new , I know the tried and true way , I just dont care for the smell of chlorine or bromine if I can safely avoid it I will, Of all the tubs I wet tested all but one was either bromine or chlorine,after which I could smell it until I got home and showered it off , it also irritated my eyes somewhat, the one tub that I immediatley noticed no smell and the water seemed ( softer or more silky ?? ) was a nature2 tub at a hot springs dealer. So I just wondered If any one had tried the clearwater blue with much the same success, as it seemed to be less expensive than N2 and can be used with chlorine or bromine, N2 is only compatible with chlorine ,What about the Rainforest Blue that RHTUBS sells, are rainforest and clearwater the same only labeled differntly as maybe Van suggests ?
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Spatini,
The chlorine/bromine smell and eye irritation was more likely due to a tub in need of water maintenance than the use of either. If chloromines build up to a point of needing a shock, both symptoms will occur. Also, if a tub is "over medicated" with either, both symptoms will occur. With a properly maintained tub (and it really is very easy to do), chances are you will notice nothing but clear, clean water.
And please count me as a "follower" with whatever overtones that includes. If it ain't broke, don't fix it... 8-)
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Tiniman,
Also found this and thought you might be interested:
Clearwater Blue Quick Start Guide (http://www.spadepot.com/docs/Cleanwater-Blue.pdf)
Easier to use? Still have to add MPS after each soak. Plus, if you introduce too much Clearwater Blue into the tub, you have to partially drain and replace. With dichlor, just leave the cover open to the sun.
Looks like occasional dichlor use is still suggested with this system. Could it be that they use dichlor at startup to disinfect the fill water...hmmmm... ;) Plus starting up the tub looks a LOT more involved than dichlor use. For me to startup after a fill, 3 tsp. dichlor while it's heating and that's it.
I seriously doubt that it will be less expensive considering all of the other Clearwater products suggested for use.
Give it a shot and let us know. 8-)
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never said I was determined to use either of the Blues , just trying to garner a little more info ,
Now I'm am also looking at [glow]Nature 2[/glow] and the [glow]SpaFrog[/glow] options, what are your opions on these?
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Spatini, there are lots of users on this forum that use the Nature 2 and seem to be very happy with it. Lots of our customers use it as well. You use it for 4 months and put in a new one. You use some MPS shock after each use and put in some Dichlor once per week and it seems to work very good.
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Spatini,
The chlorine/bromine smell and eye irritation was more likely due to a tub in need of water maintenance [glow]If it ain't broke, don't fix it...[/glow] 8-)
"Cancer risk among people using chlorinated water is 93% higher than those whose water does not contain chlorine." - U.S. Council of Environmental Quality
"Studies indicate that suspect chemicals can be inhaled and absorbed through the skin during bathing. Ironically, even the chlorine widely used to disinfect water produces carcinogens." - U.S. News & World Report
Does that sound like it might be "BROKE"?
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You use some MPS shock after each use and put in some Dichlor once per week and it seems to work very good.
Many of us who suppliment with N2 (myself included) would advice you to put in the dichlor after each use and use the MPS to shock once per week.
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Many of us who suppliment with N2 (myself included) would advice you to put in the dichlor after each use and use the MPS to shock once per week.
Spatech, just curious as you probably know more about N2 then I do since I have only been using it for about a year. It says in the directions for a Low Chlorine routine to use the MPS after each use and to only use dichlor when needed; ex.cloudy water, foaming, or stinky water. I have been telling people to use it once per week though.
But you said that you do the opposite by using dichlor after each use and the MPS once per week. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of using the N2? I thought the main reason people wanted to use the N2 was for a non chlorine/bromine alternative. Not doubting you, just curious.
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Spatech, just curious as you probably know more about N2 then I do since I have only been using it for about a year. It says in the directions for a Low Chlorine routine to use the MPS after each use and to only use dichlor when needed; ex.cloudy water, foaming, or stinky water. I have been telling people to use it once per week though.
But you said that you do the opposite by using dichlor after each use and the MPS once per week. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of using the N2? I thought the main reason people wanted to use the N2 was for a non chlorine/bromine alternative. Not doubting you, just curious.
1) I use that approach because the MPS/use approach just falls flat.
2) Chlorine is just too effective to put on the sideline. You can lessen that dichlor per/use amount but you would be wise to not eliminate it.
3) Anyone who falls for the idea that N2 will allow you to go sanitizer free is kidding themselves. the sad thing is when it comes from a dealer who either does it not knowingly (until they find out better) or because it placates a consumer who has that false "chlorine is bad" impression and yearns for some chlorine/bromine free nirvana.
4) While N2 will lesson the amount of dichlor used a little (not nearly enough to pay for itself) its main effect is to make it easier to care for your water. You can go a little longer in between doses without running into cloudy water issues. If that is worth $10/month to someone then it’s a nice SUPPLIMENT to a dichlor routine IMHO. I've dealt with many spa owners frustrated with water care and once you've been through the ringer you typically don't mind that added amount because it does help. Can you go without it and still have good results? Absolutely but it does help.
Dichlor is my best friend for life. Ozone is a very good buddy I wouldn’t be without. N2 is an excellent friend to have around.
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Thanks for the response Spatech!! I wasn’t saying your way was wrong, I was just curious. Again I am just following what the directions read that come in the box where it says to use MPS after each use and the dichlor as needed. I have never once sold the N2 as a chemical free alternative, as you still have to use MPS and dichlor with it. It is just an alternative to use less chlorine. Even on Doc's website it says right under N2 that is cuts chemical use by 80-90%
I am curious what you feel the Nature 2 does for you since you add chlorine to it daily. Does it really provide an added benefit when adding that much chlorine anyways? You must keep your chlorine pretty high in your spa. It does say in the directions as an alternative to MPS you can substitute dichlor for MPS, so that must be the routine that you follow.
Again, not coming at you, just picking your brain apart, that’s all! ;) I did take offense to your "not knowingly" statement though. >:( ::)
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"Cancer risk among people using chlorinated water is 93% higher than those whose water does not contain chlorine." - U.S. Council of Environmental Quality
"Studies indicate that suspect chemicals can be inhaled and absorbed through the skin during bathing. Ironically, even the chlorine widely used to disinfect water produces carcinogens." - U.S. News & World Report
Does that sound like it might be "BROKE"?
Er, no.
Sounds like most people prefer to take their chances with cancer in 40 years rather than dying of typhoid today.
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Some people like to shock after use and add chlorine weekly, some like to add chlorine after use, then shock weekly or every other week. both work with pretty much the same results.
Personally I like to add a very small amount of Chlorine after use or every couple of days depending on use, shock every other week or so. Cant get much easier than that. Of course use and number of people using the spa varies greatly as to which to go with.
Now if its winter and chitty out, I close the lid and run in the house, might add chlorine in the AM, if I forget no biggie, I have the N2 and an ozonator.
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"Cancer risk among people using chlorinated water is 93% higher than those whose water does not contain chlorine." - U.S. Council of Environmental Quality
"Studies indicate that suspect chemicals can be inhaled and absorbed through the skin during bathing. Ironically, even the chlorine widely used to disinfect water produces carcinogens." - U.S. News & World Report
Does that sound like it might be "BROKE"?
Chile banned chlorine. Once. The cholera outbreak seemed to be doing more damage than long-term use of chlorine. I guess they decided the remote chance of cancer vs. the almost certain opportunity of getting cholera made them go back to chlorine.
PERSONAL OPINION - My thought is if you're gonna get cancer, you're gonna get cancer. Seems like almost everything out there can lead to cancer. Of course if you give a lab rat an ounce of chlorine every day for a year, they'll probably get really sick. I suppose if I ate a 3" tablet of chlorine for lunch every day, I'd get sick, too. Those lab reports always blow thing out of proportion.
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"Cancer risk among people using chlorinated water is 93% higher than those whose water does not contain chlorine." - U.S. Council of Environmental Quality
"Studies indicate that suspect chemicals can be inhaled and absorbed through the skin during bathing. Ironically, even the chlorine widely used to disinfect water produces carcinogens." - U.S. News & World Report
Does that sound like it might be "BROKE"?
Maybe more like "choose your poison"? I don't know how many cases of cancer have been directly linked to chlorine use in pools and spas but I'm betting it is few. So there are absolutely no risks with using copper? I doubt it.
And I think tuo's posts hit it right on the head.
Interesting that the Clearwater guide touts "chlorine/bromine free" then recommends dichlor use for initialization and occasional shocking. More marketing double-talk...
Yep, for me it ain't broke...
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Really didnt mean to stir the pot here, just trying to be a little more informed .
Spatech, I think your approach is probably the way I will go , but if I remember correctly I think my dealer had the Spafrog and was telling me about it with the use of bromine and Ozone, said it should cut down on the bromine not eliminate it and when used in conjunction with the ozone it should keep it fairly simple he also said most people overdo the whole chemical thing and tend to get to crazy about it. I will check to make sure he does have the Nature 2 if not I will look deeper into the whole SpaFrog thing or maybe just go that way first.
So far this thread has been very informative , any more info / SpaFrog users
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We use to sell this stuff pretty much the same, and they suggest using chlorine periodically as well.
http://www.pristineblue.com/
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Contrarian Dan here.
1) The proven EPA approved alternative to chlorine/bromine, and simple to use are biguanides, BaquaSpa, Soft Soak and Free are brand names. Simple to use if you follow the directions and have support from a professional who understands they system. You use no chlorine and only test and adjust once a week.
2) We have 1000's of customers using Nature2, ozone, MPS with each use, weekly shock with chlorine. Seems to work for most of them.
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I’ve been using Cleanwater Blue (or RainForest Blue) for about a year now. The process is really very simple. You add it when you fill your tub, shock and then shock weekly with MPS or Dichlor. Every couple weeks you test the copper in your water and add if necessary... that's it.
One advantage is that copper sulfate does not dissipate into the air like other chemicals so you rarely have to add it to your water after initial startup. That makes it a very inexpensive option to use.
Another advantage is that it is completely odorless and does not dry skin. I’ve been very pleased and have a few neighbors/friends that have switched to it also. So far they’ve all been pleased with it.
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I am considering switching to cleanwater blue but I am concerned that it only works with a very low calcium level. My last hot tub did not last very long because I did not routinely add calcium to my water at startup and my hot tub suffered from severe corrosion due to low calcium levels. My understanding is calcium must be between 300 to 400 ppm to prevent plumbing corrosion issues. Cleanwater blue does not give any information about preventing pipe corrosion due to the low calcium levels needed for their system and I am hesitant to use it if it is going to shorten the life of my new hot tub.