Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: BigK75 on January 04, 2007, 11:38:45 pm
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Hey Guys:
I had a quick question about for Sundance Optima owners. I have a new Optima that I bought a couple of weeks ago. I have noticed that pump 1 is completely silent. When I turn on pump 2 and turn dirveter (seen as A in picture) on neutral (halfway) I notice that I get a lot of sound behind the shell (seen as C in the picture). I must then turn on air valve (B in picture) and the sound seems to subside or turn the dirverter completely torward the seat with the 4 large jets. Does anyone know what maybe causing this. Its pretty annoying and so I do not like to turn on pump 2 because of this.
Claude
(http:// http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q126/BigK1975/OptimaBig.jpg?t=1167971804 )
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Hello Claude,
My 2005 does that too. I understand that Sundance has had a history with noisy diverters. In my case, I'd have to double check, but I'm thinking the noise also subsides if I turn the waterfall on.
Good Luck!
AP.
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They were supposed to have quieted down the noisy diverter valves in the newer models. My Optima is a 2003- I think the re-designed valves were introduced in the 2004 models, or possibly the 05's- don't remember for sure.
Have you asked your dealer about this? Or at least gone into their showroom and run an Optima to see if their display model is quiet?
Might be something that can be fixed, might be something you have to live with.
I put caulking on the back side of the diverter knobs on my Optima, it quieted the noise down a little bit.
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But that's the weird part the noise is not coming from the diverter valve, it is coming from behind the shell where there are no diverter valves. As you can see in area A, those are controls for the waterfall and air valve for pump one. I might have the dealer come out and take a look at it.
Claude
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Be interesting to hear what you find out.
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Mine is noisy too. First, what you're referring to is actually pump #1. The problem is with the plumbing to the big whirlpool jet to the lower left of the waterfall. The rushing water behind there makes a fairly astonishing amount of noise, although it does improve noticeably if you turn on the air injection for the whirlpool jets. If I didn't completely loathe my dealer I'd call them about it, or go see the floor model to see if it does it too...
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Well said, Thank you!
That jet has an 90 degree elbow on the back of it, when you have the diverter turn 100% to the whirlpool you have 160 gpm into the back of the jet doing a 90 degree turn. Unfortunately every Optima I have ever heard running Does this, call it a design flaw or whatever it may be....The MAXXUS seems to do the same thing as well. :-[ If it is of great concern please feel free to call the dealer Claude. Thanks again!
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Hey PG_Rider. I should have not said pump 1. It is the pump that controls three of the four seats plus both whirlpool jets (left of the waterfall and centre foot jet). I am talking about the same noise your talking about. The plumbing to the whirlpool jet to the lower let of the waterfall. I hear water rushing behind there. Its very loud and annoying. Like you mentioned it does improve noticeably if you turn on the air injection for the whirlpool jets. I am going to go to my dealer to ask about it. They do not have the a floor model anymore because I bought it :)
RubaDub: If you have the Optima in the store can you check this? I was going to give John a call and see if he could come out and take a look.
Claude
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Give John a call. I don't have one here to check but when I had one it was noisy as well. Better safe than sorry, give the store a call, John is usually there. Thanks again!
Rob.
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Mine is noisy as well. I remember reading something on this forum about turning the diverter slowly but that didn't help. It's annoying but I've learned to live with it. In general I find the noise level when the upper jets on (pump 1) to be too loud for normal conversation. Noise level with foot jets is somewhat better. Curious to see what you find out.
On the subj of new Optimas and annoying issues :-/: I have a FOAM problem. It's white and bubbly.. not slimy or gross.. looks just like a bubble bath. This is my second fill. On initial fill I attributed foam to my daughters friend wearing a tshirt in the tub. It just got worse and worse. Dosed with foam reduction chems which killed foam for 5-10 mins but w/ jets on it came back again. Tried scooping out foam... extra MPS.. nothing worked. Washed all suits.. triple rinsed... We have a "no hair in water" rule. Water perfect on second fill for about a week or so.. then foam gradually came back. Now its just as bad as first time. It is unbelievably annoying!
Anyone else have this problem? My brother in law bought an Optima a month or two before us. He also has a foam problem. He thought it was his well water and/or bromine. Brother in law's installer guy said they clean tubs at factory after water testing... and that there is residual detergent in plumbing. My brother in law also said the manual talks about foam.. I don't remember seeing it.. maybe I missed it. He on his third fill and said he's noticed the foam getting better with each fill. Just wondering if any other recent Optima purchasers are having this problem... If so, what are you doing to eliminate foam? ANd have you seen it reduce with each fill? I thought of trying enzymes (thinking foam caused by lotions, anti-persperants etc) ... Help!!!
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On the subj of new Optimas and annoying issues :-/: I have a FOAM problem. It's white and bubbly.. not slimy or gross.. looks just like a bubble bath. This is my second fill. On initial fill I attributed foam to my daughters friend wearing a tshirt in the tub. It just got worse and worse. Dosed with foam reduction chems which killed foam for 5-10 mins but w/ jets on it came back again. Tried scooping out foam... extra MPS.. nothing worked. Washed all suits.. triple rinsed... We have a "no hair in water" rule. Water perfect on second fill for about a week or so.. then foam gradually came back. Now its just as bad as first time. It is unbelievably annoying!
Sounds like a filtering issue to me. You might want to soak your filters in a cleaning solution to break up all the oils and such. It's almost impossible to get them out with just a high pressure rinse esp. if you haven't soaked them before. It' amazing how much clean filters help with water clarity. :)
I thought of trying enzymes
That is also a great idea but I would still soak the filters, since your foam keeps reoccuring. This tells me that something is caught in your filters and needs to be destroyed.
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we have the microclean 2 type filters. in theory you don't have to clean or soak. i did rinse and clean the exterior of the fitler and between the pleats when i changed out the water (few hairs and a lot of lint type stuff). all the "nasty" stuff is trapped inside the filter. i suppose i could try soaking the filter but we were told with microclean 2 we don't need to do that. what kind of chems should i use to soak the filter?
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I'm not familar with those filters as I use regular pleated ones. Sorry :(.....we'll have to wait for someone else that's a little more familar to chime in. I'd hate to suggest doing the wrong thing.
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Mine is noisy as well. I remember reading something on this forum about turning the diverter slowly but that didn't help. It's annoying but I've learned to live with it. In general I find the noise level when the upper jets on (pump 1) to be too loud for normal conversation. Noise level with foot jets is somewhat better. Curious to see what you find out.
On the subj of new Optimas and annoying issues :-/: I have a FOAM problem. It's white and bubbly.. not slimy or gross.. looks just like a bubble bath. This is my second fill. On initial fill I attributed foam to my daughters friend wearing a tshirt in the tub. It just got worse and worse. Dosed with foam reduction chems which killed foam for 5-10 mins but w/ jets on it came back again. Tried scooping out foam... extra MPS.. nothing worked. Washed all suits.. triple rinsed... We have a "no hair in water" rule. Water perfect on second fill for about a week or so.. then foam gradually came back. Now its just as bad as first time. It is unbelievably annoying!
Anyone else have this problem? My brother in law bought an Optima a month or two before us. He also has a foam problem. He thought it was his well water and/or bromine. Brother in law's installer guy said they clean tubs at factory after water testing... and that there is residual detergent in plumbing. My brother in law also said the manual talks about foam.. I don't remember seeing it.. maybe I missed it. He on his third fill and said he's noticed the foam getting better with each fill. Just wondering if any other recent Optima purchasers are having this problem... If so, what are you doing to eliminate foam? ANd have you seen it reduce with each fill? I thought of trying enzymes (thinking foam caused by lotions, anti-persperants etc) ... Help!!!
Do you have soft water?
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No, it's public water...not soft at all.
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My Maxxus use to be noisy on one diverter but what I found was that the knob can be lifted up and off the base. It was not line up right. In other words, if you would turn it all the way in one direction to the stop, it wasn't all the way. You could put the knob back on and turn it a little more. I think someone was turning it and accidentally lifted it off and when they put it back on, the knob wasn't in the same pointing direction as before. Same with air injector. Also I noticed that water was leaking under the knob of the diverter and to fix it, I just lifted the knob off and hand tightened the base a quarter turn and it stopped. My tub now is very quite with all three pumps running. When I kick the blower on it does get a little louder but not bad at all.
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The problem here isn't with the diverter itself, it's with the sound of water gushing through the plumbing to a particular whirlpool jet. The diverter only came up because it has to be turned all the way to that jet in order for the sound to be a problem... Unfortunately I don't think there's an easy way to quiet down the water sounds through that particular bit of plumbing other than to not send full power to that jet... :(
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Thats my point pg. Check to make sure your diverter is going as far as it needs to. It may not be all the way to the valve stop. In my case it wasn't and it was making more noise than it should. I too thought that when I turned the diverter to the left it was where it was suppose to be. But I noticed one time that the pointer on the knob was not where is was suppose to be, after checking, I found in my case is was the diverter. It may just be your tub that the noise is inherent
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I can't get past this noise, all I do is keep figeting with the dials to get it right. I cannot believe Sundance actually produced a spa with this. I almost wish I bought the cameo since I hear it does not make the noise. The funny thing is I didn't hear it during the wet test, most likely becasue I was so excited. I am really down in spirits due to this. I'd like to sit in my second best seat in silence and I can't, I think this is a major design flaw. I really want to hear another optima or the 2007 to see if its just mine that's this loud. Does anyone know if I can plug up the one whirlpool jet I think this would stop the noise.
Claude
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I can't get past this noise, all I do is keep figeting with the dials to get it right. I cannot believe Sundance actually produced a spa with this. I almost wish I bought the cameo since I hear it does not make the noise. The funny thing is I didn't hear it during the wet test, most likely becasue I was so excited. I am really down in spirits due to this. I'd like to sit in my second best seat in silence and I can't, I think this is a major design flaw. I really want to hear another optima or the 2007 to see if its just mine that's this loud. Does anyone know if I can plug up the one whirlpool jet I think this would stop the noise.
Which seat are you wanting to sit in and have pump #1 running only to the whirlpool jets? Are you not wanting to have the air turned on to the whirlpool jets (which reduces the noise considerably as we discussed)? I agree it sucks that they designed a jet to have such a huge flowrate yet have a 90 degree bend in the piping right behind it, but I've learned to just turn on the air for that jet (which of course makes it much stronger, which I like)...
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Sometimes I would like to turn the jets to 50/50 (whirlpools/seats) without air to keep it quiet, but can't because its too loud. I am not an engineer but I can't understand why its so tough to fix the issue. I mean its not like these things where produced yesterday, optimas have been around some time now. The odd part is that when someone does complain it always seems to be the 2006 version. I wonder if the waterfall has something to do with it.
If the manufacture knows that will happen when you put in a 90 degree angle, why would do they do this, they could just as easily put the jet somewhere else. Anyway I am pretty bummed about it. I also can't believe so few people have complained. I found only on other post on this topic. But to me, It sounds like a train is going by. If the sound was only when you put full jets to the whirpool jets then I could understand that this would be an issue, but not when you have turn it 25/75 (whirlpool/seats) to make the sound go away. :(
Claude
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Patty,
If your water is hard. Then each time you wash your suits or someone comes over with a washed suit. There is soap left in those suits from the laundry. When jets agitate then the soap gets bubbly like the wash machine does. Now I know what you're going to say. We don't wear suits. Soap also in hair and on skin. Your dealer should have some foam dispersing product. Or make sure you have at least 200 ppm. of calcium in your spa water. Or get a water softener for the house. can't go wrong there. Will do wonders for the plumbing and fixtures. Also great for your hair. Sorry nothing on the diverter though.
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Bigk75
I just got my Optima one week ago. It was made in March of 2007.
That noise is present in mine also. What works best for me is, I turn the whirpool jets off by turning the the affending divertor all the way counter-clockwise and then adjust the individual jets in the co-pilot's seat to level that makes my wife happy. I usually sit in the pilot's seat. I find the whirlpool jet that is next to the pilot's seat bothersome anyway and the whirlpool jet in the middle of the foor dome is just an awe factor for guests. On mine the divertor in question switches water flow from "1a" whirlpool jets and "2a" co-pilots's seat, plus the single jet in cooldown seat to the right of the pilot's seat. The flow to the other 2 seats, which I call first class, are not affected by the divertor. Is this set up the same as yours or has Sundance changed the piping setup so I can do what I do?
So for, I am very happy with the Optima.
I did get a blinking "flo" display the other night. I found it would go away if I had the waterfall on all the way or turned off. When waterrfall was set part way the "flo" display returned. Any input?
:)
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Turn your spa off and take your filter out. Is there still a nylon screen over the suction below the filter?
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Yes. Should I remove or clean?
Thanks for the speedy reply.
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If you turn your air venturri's off, does it reduce the noise?
The air water mix is taking a 90° turn in both the left and right direction. The air water mix is what is generating the noise. Diverter gates were modified internally at the top of the "diverter gate", the rotating part, so that it would reduce the affect of the abrupt 90° turn. If you close your venturri controls and the noise is modified, it indicates that the water air mix is what is generating the "noise".
It is unlikely that you will find a solution to this situation.
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Yes. Should I remove or clean?
Thanks for the speedy reply.
I am waiting for the answer to this one as I'm on the verge of buying a new Sundance Optima and if this is a known problem then I'm buying a Jacuzzi...
Scott :-?
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Yes. Should I remove or clean?
Thanks for the speedy reply.
Neither, just leave it. Sometimes customers take the filter out and don't realize that the screen is there and it gets sucked into the circulation pump, causing an intermittent FLO error.
If you take the filter out and take that screen out (so it doesn't get sucked in) does the FLO error go away?
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If you turn your air venturri's off, does it reduce the noise?
Yes.
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If you turn your air venturri's off, does it reduce the noise?
Yes.
This doesn't make any sense since the venturi's air tubes are connected to the jet backs and have nothing to do with the divertor. Air manifolds are connected to air controls, not divertors, but if it makes a difference to you then great.
And yes this is a common problem with Sundance not sure why they haven't changed it, some spas seem to have it worse than others.
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Sorry, I did answer wrong. It does get quieter when I turn on the air. I read the question wrong.
I do have another question. Does only the water pumped by the circ pump go through the filter?Does water from either pump 1 or 2 go through the filter?
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Pump 1 should go through filter as well! Pump 2 suction only.
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"Flo" message on all the time. Filter was plugged. New filter installed and it is OK. Error gone.
I used a disposable filter and replaced with same. Tub was only 2 weeks old and we had filled water that went through a filter. There is just the two us in it everyday and we've had hottubs before and are careful not to track dirt into it. It was a floor model and did have some dirt in the bottom that I didn't bother to clean out when I filled with water. Wife is going to pick a cleanable filter when our dealer gets them in stock.
Real happy with the Optima. :)