Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: stuart on January 28, 2008, 11:32:33 am
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Last year when gas prices got to be just too much we started charging a $15 trip fee or "gas surcharge". I cannot believe the arguments we get from customers on this!
We will not go out on a call without a credit card and the trip fee for these reasons;
1. Not all calls during the warranty period are covered by the manufacture....if someone has you come out for dirty filters they have to pay for that. Pre charging their credit card and letting them know that they are responsible for the bill if it isn't covered has changed the amount of loss there.
2. Gas, Oil and maintenance on vehicles has gone up.... Manufactures don't pay enough in most cases to cover the expenses of warranty calls so a trip fee is reasonable.
Do you charge a trip free and if so how much?
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Stuart,
As a consumer I would be okay with a $15 trip charge even under warranty. I just have hard time with the $45 or so charges unless there is a significant travel distrance. The stories of being 3 miles from the dealer and being charged $45 leave a bad taste in my mouth.
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We do not charge a travel fee, although we did raise the cost of an out-of-warranty service call from $65 to $99 last year. It had been $65 for about the last 10 years and we realized we were way behind the times.
We, too, have started requiring a credit card number up front. Some folks don't like it, but most people understand the reasoning.
Term
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Term,
What does the $99 cover? Is that just to show up or does that include diagnosis? If they have to come back to finish the work are they charged the fee again?
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Term,
What does the $99 cover? Is that just to show up or does that include diagnosis? If they have to come back to finish the work are they charged the fee again?
Our guys always talk to the customer ahead of time so that they'll generally have an idea of what's wrong with the spa. Once on sight, they will diagnose and correct the problem. If they experience difficulty, they will contact technical support at Watkins and use their help to diagnose the situation and resolve it. They are usually at the customer's home less than 30 minutes.
If by some rare chance they have to return, there is no charge.
Term
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I think I posted on this before, but when my pump went the plumber kept hitting me with a gas fee..each time he came back to "finish" the job. So several trips, several$$$$ I wrote and told him it would be to his advantage, at least from a customer's standpoint to just incorporate those fees in the bill, don't line item it...Service people have to travel TO the customer, so that is a part of doing business. Otherwise there would be no business. I can't bring my well and pump to them to work on. So in that light, getting to the job is just a function of doing business. I wish my husband could hit his boss up for the extra cash it is costing him to drive to work each day...and I am waiting for the grocery store to send me a gas coupon for driving there to do business..
So I say if you need to charge it, just incorporate it in the general bill. The plumber that fixed my well made enough in gas money to go to disney world!! >:(
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We charge a $50 trip fee and have for the past 10-12 years and we still do. Before that, it was all free. We found customers to be very demanding for what they got for free, so we began to charge a trip charge. We do require a credit card before going to the site. That fee is discreationary and can be waived or discounted at our discreation for "good" customers. Once there, we charge $25 per quarter hour with most service calls handled within 30 minutes. Occasionally, we get someone with no credit card and they pay by check. We will NEVER BILL AGAIN, too many arguments and too many writeoff's, all of which leads to stressful relationships.
Our manufacturer pulled our line from us after 17 years and brought in a big dealer with deep pockets. They charged our customers $85 for a trip charge for warranty work, with some customers telling us they were charged $150 just for them to show up for warranty work. The highest charge we heard was $300 and they were 60 miles one way. All of this was done with the knowledge of SD, who did nothing about it, as all of these people called them to absolutely no avail. They are no longer in business today after 18 months closing 4 very large stores and you ought to hear what customers have to say about them, Not Good.
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As long as the work is in warranty I don't charge any trip charge/fee. This market is competitive and this gives a slight edge on the other hot tub retailers in central Florida. It is an educated assumption, in so far as, Coleman tubs are very reliable, requiring next to no follow up service.
Non-warranty work, $65.00 for the first half hour and $55.00 every our after that. So far we trust people to mail or have a check ready. Gas is very expensive, but the Tundra is reasonable on gas.
A quality hot tub repair service is making a fortune on labor and parts. It is a very good business.......the better ones can just about charge what they want to charge.
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We have a one time trip fee it applies after the first year of service. It varies between 50 and 75 dollars the one time fee means it is one fee per repair no matter should a return trip or trips be required (of course we try to do it in one call). We also guarantee the repair against another travel fee for 90 days we have yet to have this occur. The reality for is we have very very few warranty calls most of our work comes from spa not sold by us.
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I think I posted on this before, but when my pump went the plumber kept hitting me with a gas fee..each time he came back to "finish" the job. So several trips, several$$$$ I wrote and told him it would be to his advantage, at least from a customer's standpoint to just incorporate those fees in the bill, don't line item it...Service people have to travel TO the customer, so that is a part of doing business. Otherwise there would be no business. I can't bring my well and pump to them to work on. So in that light, getting to the job is just a function of doing business. I wish my husband could hit his boss up for the extra cash it is costing him to drive to work each day...and I am waiting for the grocery store to send me a gas coupon for driving there to do business..
So I say if you need to charge it, just incorporate it in the general bill. The plumber that fixed my well made enough in gas money to go to disney world!! >:(
I agree with Boni...upcharges because life has gotten more expensive >:(. That is the cost of doing business and if you need to raise your rates, raise them, but don't insult me by saying you are charging more 'cause gas is more expensive. I have to say that auto repair places that tack on a $10 fee for extras such as shop towels, etc., are crazy...how insulting to pay $300 or whatever and then have an added $10. Put it in the price for the work done.
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I agree with Boni...upcharges because life has gotten more expensive >:(. That is the cost of doing business and if you need to raise your rates, raise them, but don't insult me by saying you are charging more 'cause gas is more expensive. I have to say that auto repair places that tack on a $10 fee for extras such as shop towels, etc., are crazy...how insulting to pay $300 or whatever and then have an added $10. Put it in the price for the work done.
I have to agree with Boni and Cyn.
I do have sympathy for you dealers out there with escalating cost of fuel, insurance and maintenance but the "term" trip charge does not leave a warm and fuzzy feeling. My advise, for what its worth would be to bury it in the invoiced price. Maybe raising your hourly rate by $5 may offset it. I would never pay a "trip charge" to any dealer or service provider if the trip was for a warranty issue.
Like I said it just doesn't leave the customer with a good feeling
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Case and point for trip charge, Mr Schmuckatelle called the other day and said his spa was not heating, we ask "how old are your filters" the customer replies "I just cleaned them" We explain we understand that the filters have been cleaned but it still could be the issue. "Just come out and fix my spa" he says "O.k sir but first I have some information I must let you know before we come out" the script goes like this, "sir just recently the factories have allowed spa dealers to collect reasonable trip charges from customers as they do not pay us for actual travel time, so to help defray some of the cost we have found it necessary to impose a onetime trip charge of $15"
We realise your spa is under manufactures warranty , however there are things that the manufacturer may not cover such as dirty filters, incorrect wiring, airlocks and un balanced water chemistry, just to name a few" This being said there may be things necessary in the service call that are not covered by the manufacturer, in this unlikely event you may responsible for our rates upto $95 per hour plus parts,but only if the factory finds the problem to be a non warrantable item" "Do you have any questions sir?" " Just come fix my spa" "o.k sir is Tuesday afternoon o.k?"
We go out and remove his filters and low and behold! The filters were swullen and restricting water to the system, you guessed it! disengaging the heater. We were out of his yard in 10 minutes. This morning I have an urgent message to call him. "I am not paying another $95 for your guy to come and tell me my filters are bad" "well sir did we not read you our rates and fees card that indicated this may happen?" "Yes you did but I am not paying."
Luckily in this instance we took a $15 trip charge on his credit card so we are able to send him a bill and charge his card. People don't want to pay even if the damage or problem is neglect on their part. I call that attempted theft. Luckily we have security sytems in place. For the most part people are great but the bad apples......Well thats just my $110 worth.
I have to agree with Boni and Cyn.
I do have sympathy for you dealers out there with escalating cost of fuel, insurance and maintenance but the "term" trip charge does not leave a warm and fuzzy feeling. My advise, for what its worth would be to bury it in the invoiced price. Maybe raising your hourly rate by $5 may offset it. I would never pay a "trip charge" to any dealer or service provider if the trip was for a warranty issue.
Like I said it just doesn't leave the customer with a good feeling
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Tazman,
I understand your point and I do not want to leave any business person on the hook for my stupidity but, the customer in your example is a 1 in 100. I would imagine that 99% of the time your service calls are justified by a legitimate repair or warranty claim for which you and your company are paid. If you guys came out to my house and determined that my complaint was due to dirty or damaged filters then yes I agree some compensation for your time is due. If my complaint was a legitimate warranty claim then I don't believe I should be charged for you to come to my house its not like I can bring the tub to you.
What I am saying is that dealers should not use the term "trip charge" call it a minimum charge or bury it in your invoice or raise your labor rate. Trip charge is not a customer friendly term.
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Tazman,
I understand your point and I do not want to leave any business person on the hook for my stupidity but, the customer in your example is a 1 in 100. I would imagine that 99% of the time your service calls are justified by a legitimate repair or warranty claim for which you and your company are paid. If you guys came out to my house and determined that my complaint was due to dirty or damaged filters then yes I agree some compensation for your time is due. If my complaint was a legitimate warranty claim then I don't believe I should be charged for you to come to my house its not like I can bring the tub to you.
What I am saying is that dealers should not use the term "trip charge" call it a minimum charge or bury it in your invoice or raise your labor rate. Trip charge is not a customer friendly term.
I would have to say no not at all. Owners basic maintenance neglect is the cause much of the time. I have said this before but the owners on a board like this are the anomaly and not the typical spa owner. Dirty filters are a rather common occurrences for heating and flow problems.
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I think the real issue is that as consumers we have to totally asorb the increasing costs of EVERYONE doing business. In order for the business to make the same amount of money before the gas increases, the consumer has to pay that difference. The issue isn't how you differentiate between service calls; are they for real issues or customer stupidity? That is pretty simple. The issue is whether as a service company, you pass your increased cost of doing business off to your customers. Do service oriented businesses get tax writeoffs for gas? If you decide that each trip is hit with a $10.00 gas fee, is that fair for the guy 3 miles down the road, as well as the guy 40 miles away? So should you charge by the mile? This is what made me mad at the plumber. It didn't cost him $15.00 in gas to get to and from my house. The simple answer is just incorporate it into your charge and don't mention it is to cover the gas costs.
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The issue is whether as a service company, you pass your increased cost of doing business off to your customers.
I keep trying to get my employees to take a pay cut, but they just wont go for it.... Dang guys all want raises..... something about the cost of living going up?
And my landlord tells me he'll evict me if I try to reduce the amount of rent he gets...... and oh by the way, did I forget it's a new year and there's that issue of a rent increase?
My insurance company refuses to lower their rates.... HA, they wont even keep them the same as they were last year.
And *sigh*, the oil company says I gotta pay the the credit card bill for gas, they're shooting for another record quarter.
Tell ya what, when I win the lottery, I'll take the hit and lose money for a while.......... crap, guess I better start buying tickets ;D
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Seriously.... Say over the last few years you discover it's now costing you $10 more to do each service call, and you haven't raised rates in a while. $10 a service call, say you do 5 calls a day. That's $13,000 a year. Where does that $13k come from? It comes directly out of the pocket of the owner of the company.................... I ain't taking a $13k pay cut.................. will you?
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We are a tile/stone subcontractor. When we have a service call on a house that is still under the contractor's 2 year warranty, we do not charge anything. Even if we wanted to, we couldn't. Some of the subdivisions we have are up to 60 miles away and we still eat the cost. We simply figure for these type of expenses in our original square footage bids with the contractors. Outside of warranty, we charge our hourly cost per person and what ever materials were needed to complete the job. There is no line on the invoice for a gas surcharge or "trip fee". That's just another expense of doing business and is figured in to our cost per hour.
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1.It is the dealers right to charge the fee if they want.
2.It is the consumers right to not pay the fee if they want.
3.It is the dealer’s right to refuse any more service if said charge is not paid.
Many service company’s charge this especially large appliance repair services.
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All of us pay for what we don't know, can not do, or will not do for ourselves. It is sometimes easier to pay for what we need. On the other hand, customers feel that IF they have a warranty, IT SHOULD BE COVERED.
We always ask a string of questions to help us better understand the symptoms of what is going on. This gives us clues as to what the problem could be, so that we might come prepared with most everything we need. Some customers are very helpful and 70% of our service calls are fixed on the phone with no need to pay for services or the expenses to provide service.
There are some customers who feel they are entitled to free service and do not care to look into the problem, or to help you understand the answers to your questions, just come out and fix it. These are the first to complain about any charges, expecially when, IF they tried to help us, they may not need us to come out at all. When we get there, the filter is imploded and the suction fittings are all covered with leaves. Well, of course, your gonna have a problem. But, why should we buy gas, pay a service tech 2 to 3 hours to travel and counsel a customer about leaves and dirty filters. They don't listen.
If we don't have to afford the unnecessary expenses related to unneeded service issues that are common amounting more to "customer care" issues, and rountine maintenence. It amazes me as to how many customers tell us they did this or did that and when you get there, it is blatantly obvious they didn't even attempt to remove a panel to look inside.
This is a two way street, customers want us available to help, but then they seemingly do not want to participate in caring for their personal property and expect, or in some cases, demand service and expect it to be free.
There are basic costs in doing business. But, when you call and want something done specifically for you that you could do for yourself, like take your filter out, or remove the leaves from the suction fittings to eliminat a FLO message, or check the GFCI, well then that's when we have additional expenses to care for customers, gas, time, 2nd trips, etc.
It is really more about help us, help you, and it takes a $ sign to get the customer's attention and assistance. And then, "while your here" can you bring..., fix the broken cover locks, turn the inserts over, check everything out in the EQ, (that one will save all the service charges on the next call because they should have found it when they checked everything over).
Human nature is to make your problem be someone else's problem, and it should be at NO cost to you. It just dosen't work this way.
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I think what makes spas some what unique is that many times a customer will think they a service issue and it turns out it can be a programming issue, filters, water chemistry, etc. None of which are covered by the warranty. A service tech, truck, tools, parts go to the home to "fix" what turns out to be no real problem at all. I think most people here understand that service under warranty is usually a cost to the dealer or best home a break even situation. We want to be fair to our customers and to be sure they have a full understanding of what thier regular spa care responsibilities are. That is why we waive the trip fee the first year. Besides the cost of fuel, wear and tear etc, is time being from So Cal a rather short 12 miles drive can turn into hour plus of travel time one way very easily that is why there is a travel fee and again for us it is one time charge no matter the needed trips to make a complete repair.
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I think a point that has been lost in this discussion of why do consumers have to bear the burden of rising costs of vendors doing business (which is real simple by the way: consumer cost = vendor cost + profit), is that the trip charge is NOT covered by the warranty in many cases. A spa owner that doesn't want to pay the trip charge should take it up with the spa manufacturer because they issue the warranty. Think of it as your deductible. Sure spa dealers could give it to their customers for nothing as a good will gesture, but keep this in mind: if the call is 20 miles away, between gas, tech labor cost, and lost ability for that tech to make the company money doing something else, you could buy all of your spa chemicals and filters from that dealer for a year and still not generate them enough profit to cover that freebie service call. It's expensive to run a business. I think people forget that sometimes. $3 gas is choking this economy.
And Boni - please keep in mind that yes, service companies can write off their gas expense, but they still have to buy the gas. The tax deduction only nets about 15% back since that's the bracket most of these service companies are in.
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1.It is the dealers right to charge the fee if they want.
2.It is the consumers right to not pay the fee if they want.
3.It is the dealer’s right to refuse any more service if said charge is not paid.
Many service company’s charge this especially large appliance repair services.
Chris
You forgot one point and its the most important
4. It is the customers right to find a different dealer
Shaamus,
Why is it that this trip charge thing came into play when gas hit $3. I'm sure it was just as significant a cost when gas was $2.50. My point is, in my truck at work I use about $4000 a year in fuel if gas prices went down a dollar a gallon it would still be $3300 per year. Doc's example of a trip costing him $10 more then it used to is not a true example of a trip charge. Dealers are passing off the charge as a fuel levy and claiming its due to the added expense of gas when in fact it has more to due with labour and overhead then gas. If it took a service vehicle 2 gallons of fuel to get to my house @ $3 per gallon that's $6. If 1/30 of the lease payment on the vehicle is $12 that's $18. If 1/365 of the dealers annual insurance bill $6 then that's $24. If 2 hours of the techs wages add up to $40 that's now $64 for a 2 hour trip. These are the costs of doing business and should be included in the cost of the spa or the hourly rate not totally funded by the customer when the tub is under warranty
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You guys are missing my point...I am saying, I realize someone is going to pay the increased cost of doing business...there is no question it is the consumer...BUT it would make me really really angry if I went to the grocery store and bought a bunch of bananas and there was a gas surcharge on the label.
[glow]BANANAS 1.00/lb[/glow]
[glow]picking, air transport and misc. gas charges: $.40/lb[/glow]
I am saying, if you need to do it, fine. Customer's can decide if they want to pay for a service call or not. Energy costs are killing all of us. Just hide it in the bill, so as the costs fluctuate, the customer at least has a set price.
Let me give another example, my trash company instituted an $11.00/ month gas surcharge. Neighbors got together and figured how much money the company was making in our neighborhood at that rate. Since trash trucks go door to door, they were making a bundle and not traveling very far between jobs. Within one billing cycle, there were sales reps from two other companies and soon the blue trash cans were replaced with tan and green ones. Did we all pay a whole lot less? Probably not, but if the other two companies were incorporating a gas surcharge, we didn't see it. :)
As far as warranty, everyone has to decide how warranty work impacts the cost of doing business. In todays market, however it could be a deal maker. ;) When I bought my tub, one dealer told me I would pay at trip charge no matter what..warranty whatever. the other dealer said he would not charge for warranty work. Between the lines, I was reading that the second dealer had enough confidence in his product that he didn't expect to need to make many warranty calls. I interpreted the first dealer to say you're gonna pay no matter... :(
Now I'm done with this... ;)
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I can respect the consumers point of view, only if they can respect the the dealers cost of doing business. Chances are the dealer tells the customer the price he would like to get for the Hot Tub and the consumer tells the dealer what he is willing to pay.
The point being, everyone who shops to by a Hot Tub and those coming to this forum want to make the right decision and buy a "good" Hot Tub, from a "good" dealer, but they also want to Negotiate" the price down, while at the same time expecting extras thrown in as long as they pay as little as possible. There is NO concern about service at this time when they are taking money out of the dealers pocket to get a lower price.
IF the dealer wants their business, he can take their offer, or tell them to walk. It seems that price is always the issue at the time of purchase without the concern for the dealers, and when the need for service arises they don't want to a pay anything. When they negotiate a price and expect the dealer to take it, or they will buy elsewhere, the dealer would be wise to take the sale. When they need service they can pay back some of the money they took out of the price.
Seemingly, everybody want's a lower price both before and after the sale. The dealer looses money if he takes the deal, yet he is expected to provide everything free. It is just a bad position for both the consumer and the dealer when the price is negotiated. To think service should be included, then it should be discussed with the dealer at the time of negotiations.
I have lost sales because I was honest and answered the question correctly, yes we do charge a trip charge. My competitor wants to make sure everyone knows about it, even though he charges for service too, but does not disclose it.
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These are the costs of doing business and should be included in the cost of the spa
AS has been said before , the manufacturers are paying less and less for warranty work. Some as little as $20 a call. $20 doesn't cover the cost of putting the key in the truck and starting it, much less the drive to and from the customers house and the time to do the job. A dealer HAS to cover their costs of doing the warranty work.......... or they WILL go out of business. I have yet to meet a dealer that is willing to, much less afford to, cover the cost of doing warranty work out of their own pocket.
The cost of a spa has become so competitive, that if you add in the cost of doing warranty work to the initial price of the spa (as was done years ago), you now are no longer competitive with joe-blow spas down the street who isn't adding in the cost. Yes, some people will catch that the lesser priced spa requires a co-pay for warranty work, but honestly, most people will only look at the initial price of the spa.
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Shaamus,
Why is it that this trip charge thing came into play when gas hit $3. I'm sure it was just as significant a cost when gas was $2.50. My point is, in my truck at work I use about $4000 a year in fuel if gas prices went down a dollar a gallon it would still be $3300 per year. Doc's example of a trip costing him $10 more then it used to is not a true example of a trip charge. Dealers are passing off the charge as a fuel levy and claiming its due to the added expense of gas when in fact it has more to due with labour and overhead then gas. If it took a service vehicle 2 gallons of fuel to get to my house @ $3 per gallon that's $6. If 1/30 of the lease payment on the vehicle is $12 that's $18. If 1/365 of the dealers annual insurance bill $6 then that's $24. If 2 hours of the techs wages add up to $40 that's now $64 for a 2 hour trip. These are the costs of doing business and should be included in the cost of the spa or the hourly rate not totally funded by the customer when the tub is under warranty
I have to respectfully disagree with you. Except for the corn you buy from the farmer down the road that actually grows it, everything has a transportation cost. My $3 gas comment is more macro-economical than just talking about a trip charge needing to go to $15. Also, at $2.50/gal most businesses stopped absorbing the cost of increased fuel and that's why you started to see fuel surcharges, not because only the amount over $2.50/gal has hurt the bottom line. Most fuel charges for the products that we procure for our manufacturing, in addition to those that we charge our dealers, are based upon costs over $1.65/gal for diesel. Diesel is $3.50/gal now.
This doesn't have to do with the trip charge that we are talking about here, but to Boni's point above, the reason businesses have gone the "fuel surcharge" route is because they are concerned that consumers are not disciplined enough to determine a comparable price between vendor offerings. Experience has shown that the though they may say differently, consumers continue to prefer vendors with the lowest advertised price even if there is a floating surcharge based on fuel to vendors that raise their base prices in response to higher fuel costs. I would contend that those of you that say "just charge me more, don't give me the details, I know you have higher costs" are in the minority. In addition, if a vendor is using a calculatable method of determining fuel surcharges that is applied throughout an industry (like LTL freight carriers), it is probably better for the consumer to use this method since the addition to the price for the sake of fuel is not arbitrary and arbitrary surcharges tend to be on the high-side since the vendors are going to insulate themselves against further increases.
A good way to think about companies is that they don't pay for anything except their retained earnings:
- They don't pay taxes no matter what the rate is
- They don't pay for materials
- They don't pay their employees wages nor their benefits
- They don't pay for gas
- They don't pay rent
Their customers pay for all this through the course of doing business. If they "pay" for any of this they go out of business. The only thing that is flexible is the amount of net profit they make on a sale or service. And trust me, I do business with enough of these stores and techs to know that profit is not a word associated with warranty service.
This all brings us back to the point that no matter what that trip charge is from $0 to $200, it's part of the warranty execution in many cases. A customer not wanting to pay the trip charge is akin to someone not liking that their insurance company witholds the deductible amount from the loss claim.
Boni brings up a good point about the dealer saying that warranty work will not incur a surcharge being a determining factor in her purchase decision. But this is a sale acquisition expense. A good spa dealer will look at the average number of warranty service calls they do per spa they sell, determine the cost of those calls and add that number into the purchase price. I know for a fact the spa manufacturers know their warranty costs within a dollar or two and are adjusting their prices accordingly. Many times when you pay a little more to buy from that dealer with the wonderful reputation you're paying up front for great service. Don't get me wrong, this is how I think all business should be done. But it's a two-way street with consumers being willing to pay a fair price up front. Many people on this and other boards have done that. But imagine how many others are pitting a great dealer like Chas or Term against Costco price-wise but then also want the free trip charges and other fantastic service.
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A good spa dealer will look at the average number of warranty service calls they do per spa they sell, determine the cost of those calls and add that number into the purchase price.
This is what I was trying to get at earlier. This is how things should be done[size=72].[/size]
The cost of a spa has become so competitive, that if you add in the cost of doing warranty work to the initial price of the spa (as was done years ago), you now are no longer competitive with joe-blow spas down the street who isn't adding in the cost.
In the long run though, you'll out last joe-blow spas b/c you'll be building a better reputation. Which is the foundation for any business.
Also, to set yourself apart from pinch a penny spa, locate your dealership in a higher income community/city. Where those types of establishments are frowned upon and sometimes not even allowed to open up. There's a need for both types. You just have to decide which you want to be and plan accordingly.
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In the long run though, you'll out last joe-blow spas b/c you'll be building a better reputation.
Unfortunately this isn't always true. If joe-blow winds up taking the majority of your business, you may not be able to last until he goes under. As has been said here before many consumers are initially completely price driven. .. Then there's always joe-blow #2 that's just waiting for #1 to go out of business so he can rent the store in an already established location.
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Dealers,
I guess what Brooke, Boni, Cyn, Chad and myself have been trying to say is that the term "trip charge" does not leave the customer with a warm and fuzzy feeling. If you guys could find a way to hide it in your invoice or original cost it would do wonders for dealer appreciation. After all with out your customers where are you?
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Has anyone shipped UPS lately...You are charged a fuel surcharge ....I understand no likes or wants to pay a travel fee but just like places that say "free delivery" for any type of product unless those men are volunteers who are donating their time and truck there is nothing "free" about it....
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How bout, "warranty co-pay"?
Here's a question for you. What if when you purchased your spa you were given 2 prices to chose from. One included all warranty work done with no charge to you what so ever, the other, lower price, required you to pay a travel charge for any warranty work needing to be done.
And yes, without customers we'd be without a company, but it would probably be less of a lose than losing money on every customer we did have. ::)
Free: something you pay for that isn't itemized on the bill.
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Dealers,
I guess what Brooke, Boni, Cyn, Chad and myself have been trying to say is that the term "trip charge" does not leave the customer with a warm and fuzzy feeling. If you guys could find a way to hide it in your invoice or original cost it would do wonders for dealer appreciation. After all with out your customers where are you?
You are absolutely correct, but the concept of hiding it is not possible. What you are suggesting is that we put it in our price, perhaps suggesting an extra $50 to $100 in the price of the sale which could go a long way. How about we call it “Our Best Price”. Seems like a good idea. Then when you are ready to buy, you can ask me to lower my price, or expect me to take it out in order to get your business.
The problem is, that doesn’t leave the dealer with a “warm and fuzzy feeling” of goodness in his heart, knowing that he can afford to stay in business, and still render free service, in spite of rising costs like fuel to travel. Everybody wants to negotiate my best price. If consumers could only find a way to pay it in the original cost, “Our Best Price”, it would do wonders for customer appreciation. ;)
After all with out your customers where are you.
C A R E = customers are really everything.
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I'm sorry, I know I said I was done, but I couldn't resist..
Just got this from a friend in an email:
[size=18]Wisdom From Grandpa - -
It is hard to understand how a cemetery raised its burial rates
And blamed it on the cost of living [/size] ;D ;D ;D
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How bout, "warranty co-pay"?
Doc, you may be on to something here
Here's a question for you. What if when you purchased your spa you were given 2 prices to chose from. One included all warranty work done with no charge to you what so ever, the other, lower price, required you to pay a travel charge for any warranty work needing to be done.
Doc,
I probably would have taken a flyer on this idea but I may not be your average shopper. My wife and I will really research all major purchases and look into past history of products. The only problem I see with your idea is with the customer of a Sea monkey type spa and the battles that would happen after the 5th or 6th trip charge.
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I'm sorry, I know I said I was done, but I couldn't resist..
Just got this from a friend in an email:
[size=18]Wisdom From Grandpa - -
It is hard to understand how a cemetery raised its burial rates
And blamed it on the cost of living [/size] ;D ;D ;D
Unfortunately, until the spirits are maintaining the cemetery, digging the holes, doing the landscaping, marketing the services, cleaning up after "live" visitors (?), cost of living is a very real, live, expense.
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key phrase...Blamed it on....
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Blamed it on?
The increased cost of living, for the grave diggers? For the gardeners? Those that repave the roads (using an oil based product)? The morticians (ok, so they don't actually work for the grave yard ::) )? The grounds keepers? Or some other employed position at the facility?
See, this is my point, you find it funny since a grave yard is just full of dead bodies, or so you think. But, my point is, that there are expenses, HUGE expenses, that go on behind the scenes. Now, what happens when the grave yard can no longer afford to operate. Grave robbing to cover costs? Should the "owner" of the grave yard (do they have owners?) just start paying the extra out of his own pocket every month? Can the owner continue to survive, pay his rent, feed his family, if it's costing him every month, to continue to operate the grave yard, at a continual loss?
HEY! Maybe they could add a fuel surcharge to every funeral ;D ;D ;D
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I think the impression is when you spend 6k-10k on a big ticket item a warranty call should be free. The car dealer doesn't charge you to fix your car under warranty. My dealer is 15 miles away from me and there are 4 other dealers closer. I didn't get a trip fee reimbursed by him when I drove out and bought my tub or when I drive out to buy chemicals and supplies when I pass big box stores that have the same stuff only cheaper. I support him because he supports me. I've had my tub for 6 months and the dealer came out once the first week with a problem with one of my pumps, it wasn't fixed and I wasn't charged. Maybe he doesn't charge because he sells HS and Caldera's and knows he won't go out on excessive calls.
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I think the impression is when you spend 6k-10k on a big ticket item a warranty call should be free. The car dealer doesn't charge you to fix your car under warranty. My dealer is 15 miles away
This is an excellent point you make. IF, your car dealer had to come to YOUR house to do service, he WOULD probably charge a trip fee. And if your car needs warranty work, and wont run to get back to the dealer, who pays for the tow?
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I had a warranty issue with a Chrysler and the problem occurred when I was about 35 miles from the dealer. When I called to tell them what had happened, they recognized the problem, told me to have the car towed to the dealer and they reimbursed me for the tow.
The funny that I found in the cemetary comment was that the current state of the economy is hitting everyone...it even costs more to die.
I also travel 18 miles to my dealer to purchase my chemicals, passing a pool store just 6 miles from my house. So I am spending my gas to support my dealer, and I have no problem with that at all. :)
Now let me justify the cost of your pharmaceuticals ;)
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The first 15 years of our business, we sold it, we fixed it, and there was not 1 red cent due from the customer. We were one of the pioneers in our area opening a Hot Tub store in the very early 80's. In the middle 90's, we found ourselves overwhelmed with outside service cost covering everything from customer stupidity to dirty filters and GFCI resets. When we bagan to charge for service, customers were outraged that they should pay anything at all. Then we began taking a look at who we were doing the service for.
We discovered that those who received the most service and attention (the squeaky wheel syndrome), always had a competitors chemicals there, new covers would show up that were not our, their neighbors bought a competitors Hot Tub, they got their ozone replacement on the internet, and we were delivering Free service. FOR WHAT GOOD REASON.
I eluded to "Good" customers before in this thread, and I was expecting some flack there, but "Good" customer care just as much about you, as you care about them. Many of you here qualify. Judging by what I have seen and read here over the past 3 years, Dealers are not necessarily treated kindly or respected for what they do. When everyone takes something out of the price, how can he be happy with bending over backwards for the customer at no cost or appreciation from the customer.
When we did do free service, it was not appreciated until we started charging. This is where discreation kick's in for the customer you "know" supports your business. They come in to chat, buy chemicals, look at what's new and send their neighbors in to look. That is a "good customer".
Our database is coded with @ and *. They tell us to approach that person with caution because they have treated us very poorly in the past, have not paid their bills, or have bad mouthed us when they don't get their way. They are kind of like spoiled little children that rant and rave to get their way, they're just 30 to 40 years older now. Some disgruntled Tub owners even come here looking for ways to get their pound of flesh.
I agree and I understand the term "trip charge" leaves a negative connotation. I wish you could drive it in like the cars you take in, but someone must come out to service you. The "goodness" in our heart can not afford the related customer service cost and stay in business. It cost money to do things free.
"Good" customers pay us more over time supporting our business efforts than customers who pay their service bills. ;)
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My car dealership is 25 miles away. My scheduled maintenance is "free". When it's time for this or any other repair, I have the option of having them pick up my car and leave a loaner, taking it to them and getting a loaner or taking it to them and waiting on it. Their waiting lobby has wi-fi, starbucks coffee, snacks, etc. The car is always washed when the service is done. I see it as the perfect dealer offering. I don't know what more they could do.
I probably paid 20% over a comparable model in terms of horsepower, size, features, etc for my car due to their reputation and good ratings. I didn't haggle. I paid sticker. Also, I pass another dealer on the way to mine because of their better service record. I have never made them pick my car up even though they offer it and unless it's going to be over two hours for the maintenance, I don't take the loaner. Maybe because I run a company, I know what it costs them and think twice about taking the full suite of service. They take care of me so I take care of them. I've referred everyone I know looking for a car to them. I purchase all my aftermarket accessories from them. It's a two-way street.
Compare and contrast this to a spa dealer and their customers. If the customer lets the dealer make a decent profit (you have to remember it's their livelihood), that dealer can afford to be that super dealer. But over the years, the average spa sale is not as profitable. You have to actually move product to make money and stay in business. You can't wait for only the customers that value service above price. More and more spa customers are price driven versus service driven. To get the spa sold, the dealer lets it go for less. It's nothing personal, but that dealer cannot now afford to offer the "freebies". Whether a customer likes it or not, the warranty that the spa manufacturer issued has a deductible. It's called a trip charge. The dealer is not screwing anyone by asking the customer to pay it. If there was an assumption of completely free warranty service, that's not the dealer's fault. If you want the dealer to "eat" that charge, then you need to give something up as a consumer and in my opinion, that starts at the sale and continues through the life of the spa. If you want to be taken care of, don't go into the sale with the attitude of "You can make your money on the next guy, not me." Don't buy your filters and chemicals from anyone else. If you're a good customer, they'll be a good dealer. Now I know that many of you will say if they're a great dealer first, then you'll be a good customer. And that very well may be true of YOU, but do you really think most people out there will be?
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Free: something you pay for that isn't itemized on the bill.
My dealer has to travel a fair distance to get to my house, but they have never hit me up for a fee. The last time they had to come out (to replace the auxilary control board) I also had them bring me a couple of bottles of chemicals and some new silver ion cartridges.
I really didn't need the stuff and I could have some saved money by buying these items online, but these guys are here when I need them and its worthwhile to give some profit to the dealer who is coming out on a lowpay/nopay warranty call. I also got free home delivery service, which is something you don't see much of nowadays!
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Hey, Dealers, here's an idea:
How about waiving a trip fee if the customer is also purchasing spa supplies in the transaction? I like it because it saves me a trip to your store and is convenient. Does it do anything for you?
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Just out of curiosity, what if something did not work from the start? For instance, on my spa, the lights should turn off after 6 hours, and there is a way to set them to turn on at the same time every night. While my lights work, the automatic feature does not. They never did. One of the dealers on this forum looked into it and told me it was a faulty module. My dealer does not charge a trip fee. I am wondering if those that do would charge one for a problem that actually came with the spa. That would really tick me off.
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Hey, Dealers, here's an idea:
How about waiving a trip fee if the customer is also purchasing spa supplies in the transaction? I like it because it saves me a trip to your store and is convenient. Does it do anything for you?
WIll you pay the haz mat license fee?
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This is an excellent point you make. IF, your car dealer had to come to YOUR house to do service, he WOULD probably charge a trip fee. And if your car needs warranty work, and wont run to get back to the dealer, who pays for the tow?
Come to think of it my Ford dealer HAS come to my house for a car that would not start, he did not charge me and also Ford paid the tow back to the dealer to be fixed (got a free loaner too until the car was fixed). Ford has free road side assistance for 3yrs/36,000 (tow, out of gas, jump etc.,you can also buy more longer periods). Maybe you guys could have a flat bed come pick up the tub, drop a loaner and not charge the "tow" fee. ;D
Not to be a wise guy, obviously if a repeat "bad" customer with repeated calls for bogus claims they should be charged. I'm talking about when you call the dealer, and it can't be fixed over the phone and the tub is under warranty, I do feel I should not be charged. Given 'em one and the 2nd bogus run then it's a different story, time plus gas for a filter is just stupity on the buyer and he/she should be charged.
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WIll you pay the haz mat license fee?
Ok, I assume you are indicating that there is a hazmat issue if you bring me a couple of bottles of dichlor and some silver ion cartridges.
So, drop the dichlor and add a floating drink tray, a deck of waterproof playing cards and a new duckie. Are we OK now? ;) ;D
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OK..I have the ULIMATE gas fee....We dropped my husband's car off to have new brakes put on this morning....Hubby has been traveling aelot and probably was a little distracted (giving him the benefit of the doubt). Tonight I get a call from the mechanic. Since we will pick up the car tomorrow when he won't be there, he went through the list of what he repaired. At the end he added "oh and the gas fee".
THE WHAT???? the gas fee????.NOW A gas fee from my mechanic.:o :o >:( :exclamation I almost thought he had been reading this forum :-?
It turns out my very distracted husband dropped his car off with an empty gas tank. :-[ This guy is great, he test drives the car before and after he does repairs...so that was a little tough with an empty tank ::);)
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Here's one.... I have four gourmet pizza places that will deliver to me.....all my kid will eat is Dominos *blech*
BUT, they just started offering online ordering...... Kinda cool. And the bill was itemized.......... There was a $1.50 delivery fee.
waz up wit dat?
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Yep, Domino's has been charging that for a while now. ;)
Doc, you must have so much money you don't notice what you are paying for!! ;) ;D
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OK..I have the ULIMATE gas fee....We dropped my husband's car off to have new breaks put on this morning....Hubby has been traveling alot and probably was a little distracted (giving him the benefit of the doubt). Tonight I get a call from the mechanic. Since we will pick up the car tomorrow when he won't be there, he went through the list of what he repaired. At the end he added "oh and the gas fee".
THE WHAT???? the gas fee????.NOW A gas fee from my mechanic.:o :o >:( :exclamation I almost thought he had been reading this forum :-?
It turns out my very distracted husband dropped his car off with an empty gas tank. :-[ This guy is great, he test drives the car before and after he does repairs...so that was a little tough with an empty tank ::);)
Boni, look at your bill and tell us about any "misc" charges, such as shop supplies, or is it strictly parts, labor and tax. Every time I go in , They add and extra $20 for misc. shop supplies.
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Clover this guy is the most honest auto repair man I have ever met. He has every part on the list, labor and tax AND $15.00 for gas (that's in the tank) ;D, but no charges hidden under misc. fees. I have had those fees at chains like Tires Plus and they explained that the fees cover oil disposal and supplies (I am guessing shop towels and a bonus for their retirement package also ;D).
Seriously, if we were comparing my mechanic's bill to this entire conversation, he could have added a trip charge for picking up the necessary parts. Since we are pretty rural, he must travel to purchase parts. I wouldn't expect him to do it for free, but I don't want to see it on my bill :-/...just add it into the cost of the parts or labor and all is well. ;)
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Why do dealers and manufacturers have to pay so much? STUPIDITY of some of the dealers! Here's what just happened.
I have a Caldera that came with dented panels and a faulty spa-glo module. The technician called last night and said the panels are in, can he come to replace them? I told him he was to replace the spa-glo module as well, and he said he knew nothing about that. I called the dealer and told them I didn't want them to waste their money paying the company for 2 trips instead of one....they said don't worry, just have him come with the panels.
He shows up today with the panel..... ONE panel, in grey. I have a red tub with 2 dented panels. The dealer has to pay this company for a wasted trip. He says they even double checked the paperwork! So I wasted my morning waiting, and they wasted their money paying an outside company to do warrantee work that couldn't even be completed. Now will they go and charge Caldera for this?
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We dont charge gas charges or service fees for warranty calls. If a product has a five year warranty on it then it should have a five year full warranty. I would hate it as a customer and I wouldnt feel right about it as a dealer. If you have to charge fees dealers should look more into charging more upfront on the spa deals. I hate unforseen costs. Charging a customer these fees keep them from coming back and purchasing a future spa or product from you. Plus I own a business in a relatively small community (100K), so word of this type of thing travels fast. As a matter of fact in the past two weeks I have sold two spas to customers that moved and left their Arctic at the previous residence. Loyal customers yes, but they trust me and my product. I am sure if we had been ticky tacky on warranty issues these customers would no longer be my customers.
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Goartic:
If you don't mind me saying, you are a good businessman and a visionary in your field!
When I bought my second tub, I gladly paid the same dealer his asking price on the second tub. They are good people and I know they will continue to give me good service after the sale. I felt that I was so satisfied with the first tub, I really didn't need to go anywhere else. Some may disagree, but I like the comfort factor more than saving a few bucks, especially on a large accessory like a hot tub.
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No travel fee here.
Warranty work is done at no charge. We pre-qualify all service calls by asking the customer to do the checks they can....when was the last time you CHEMICALLY cleaned the filters?, reset the spa, reset the heater (applicable with older no-fault heaters), etc, etc. If we go out and find dirty filters...well, then they pay. 90% of all warranty work is accomplished on the initial visit.
We do try to sell the customer chemicals , filters, etc on that initial phone call....it saves them a trip, or we can get business from someone who usually doesn't buy from us because of the distance.
Our out-of-warranty rate is $95.00 up the the first hour. We feel that includes travel. We are in Connecticut.
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We dont charge gas charges or service fees for warranty calls. If a product has a five year warranty on it then it should have a five year full warranty. I would hate it as a customer and I wouldnt feel right about it as a dealer. If you have to charge fees dealers should look more into charging more upfront on the spa deals. I hate unforseen costs. Charging a customer these fees keep them from coming back and purchasing a future spa or product from you. Plus I own a business in a relatively small community (100K), so word of this type of thing travels fast. As a matter of fact in the past two weeks I have sold two spas to customers that moved and left their Arctic at the previous residence. Loyal customers yes, but they trust me and my product. I am sure if we had been ticky tacky on warranty issues these customers would no longer be my customers.
Amen Goarctic. The perfect scenario should include charging enough for the spa upfront to avoid extra charges during the warranty period. I probably would have a different perspective if I were a dealer. My local HS dealer doesn't charge for trip fees.
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Amen Goarctic. The perfect scenario should include charging enough for the spa upfront to avoid extra charges during the warranty period. I probably would have a different perspective if I were a dealer. My local HS dealer doesn't charge for trip fees.
I can run my business this way because I pay all of my service men a salary wage and not hourly wage. This way regardless of how many spa calls we have it in reality costs me the same. I cant get an exact budget put together because of the cost of gas but I have a pretty good idea of how much everything will cost from year to year, so in turn I dont need to charge service fees for warranty work to recoup hourly wages. Since I live in Kansas and our business is extremely seasonal, the salary wage works out pretty good for me and my employees. They work lots of hours during busy times without overtime pay but during slow times like now they work maybe 20 hours a week with full pay and benefits.
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I can run my business this way because I pay all of my service men a salary wage and not hourly wage. This way regardless of how many spa calls we have it in reality costs me the same. I cant get an exact budget put together because of the cost of gas but I have a pretty good idea of how much everything will cost from year to year, so in turn I dont need to charge service fees for warranty work to recoup hourly wages. Since I live in Kansas and our business is extremely seasonal, the salary wage works out pretty good for me and my employees. They work lots of hours during busy times without overtime pay but during slow times like now they work maybe 20 hours a week with full pay and benefits.
In CA that would be illegal.
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In CA that would be illegal.
Are you serious? Why?
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In CA that would be illegal.
Thats interesting, I guess every state has their own laws. I dont really get what is wrong with that scenario. It shouldnt matter how many hours they work each week, the only thing I could think of that would matter would be average hours worked per week which usually comes up to 35-40 hours per week. I could understand if the average hours worked and pay averaged out to less than minimum wages.
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Economies go up and down. But I think our generation has seen a lot more up than down and they tend to forget, so people and businesses have no cushion. If you own your own business and you don't have a cushion for lean times, you are going to go out of business. Same goes for those that work for people without any vision. An extra charge for gas, extras, etc. is a sign of the times...but it shouldnt' be. It is part of doing business and as others have suggested it should be added into the cost of the spa. You can also lower prices some day if you are able to...but that is a foreign idea to a lot of businesses and what causes some of the problems. Everyone gets used to a certain profit margin. Fluctuation only goes up. ;) You all will be happy to know that Exxon has reported record breaking profits. Now that REALLY annoys me... But it is life in this great country :)
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Are you serious? Why?
Labor laws specify who can be on salary vs. hourly. To be on salary you have to be a supervisor or manager.
GoArctic and his staff would have to figure out what they want annual income to be and structure hourly wage around that, accounting for seasonal overtime and some weeks of minimal hours. Then, employees would have to manage cash flow instead of employer.
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My husband has been a salaried employee for 4different pharmaceutical companies and now a family owned business. He gets paid his salary if he works 10 hours a week (which has NEVER happened) or 95 hours a week. The difference is salaried (often termed exempt employees ,who may have other perks, like flex time etc.) vs. hourly employees who are paid by the hour, and the over time laws apply. If you are an hourly employee and work 56 hours, sixteen of those hours are overtime.
I also think these rules/laws whatever...are determined by the size of business that you run. So Goarctic is, in my opinion, taking care of his workers and securing good dependable help. If they are termed salaried employees, how is that illegal?
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My husband has been a salaried employee for 4different pharmaceutical companies and now a family owned business. He gets paid his salary if he works 10 hours a week (which has NEVER happened) or 95 hours a week. The difference is salaried (often termed exempt employees ,who may have other perks, like flex time etc.) vs. hourly employees who are paid by the hour, and the over time laws apply. If you are an hourly employee and work 56 hours, sixteen of those hours are overtime.
I also think these rules/laws whatever...are determined by the size of business that you run. So Goarctic is, in my opinion, taking care of his workers and securing good dependable help. If they are termed salaried employees, how is that illegal?
I agree that how he is taking care of employees is great. In CA, outside salespeople are also exempt. forgot them in my last post. Every state has their own labor laws. so, to answer question, how is that illegal? Because the State of California says so! :)
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I can only speak of the pharmaceutical industry, but I was a salaried/exempt employee, and I did not manage or supervise anyone. There were several levels and jobs that had strict educational or experience requirments that were considered exempt, and those jobs were neither supervisory nor management. There were also jobs considered salary however they punched a time clock and were required to log 40 hours, those employees received overtime when required, with some flexability. Alternately, the manufacturing personnel were hourly employees, strictly on the clock, paid for all overtime.
So Dan, you are saying California specifically says you can't have exempt, salaried employees unless they are managers or supervisors?
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I can only speak of the pharmaceutical industry, but I was a salaried/exempt employee, and I did not manage or supervise anyone. There were several levels and jobs that had strict educational or experience requirments that were considered exempt, and those jobs were neither supervisory nor management. There were also jobs considered salary however they punched a time clock and were required to log 40 hours, those employees received overtime when required, with some flexability. Alternately, the manufacturing personnel were hourly employees, strictly on the clock, paid for all overtime.
So Dan, you are saying California specifically says you can't have exempt, salaried employees unless they are managers or supervisors?
I can speak to our industry. We are considered retail. Exempt employees include management, supervisors, owner/employees and outside sales.
Pharmaceutical may be different.
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So Dan, are your service guys also considered retail? I am not trying to argue with you I am trying to learn... :-/
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Labor laws specify who can be on salary vs. hourly. To be on salary you have to be a supervisor or manager.
GoArctic and his staff would have to figure out what they want annual income to be and structure hourly wage around that, accounting for seasonal overtime and some weeks of minimal hours. Then, employees would have to manage cash flow instead of employer.
Thanks.
Fwiw, I'm on salary. With the ups and downs of new home construction, it was the best for both me and my employer. I'm considered an employee on paper but in reality, I'm more of a partner. Hopefully someday soon, I'll be getting a percentage of the company. During slow times(like now), I usually work about 20-30 hours a week. When things are booming, there's no tellin how many hours I work. I basically work as much as I have to until the job is completed on time. No questions asked.
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Actually the service guys that I have that are on salary are considered managers and all have business cards and titles stating that they are service managers. I think then that I would be abiding the laws. I do have seasonal employees that help with deliveries and pool maintenance that work hourly.
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Actually the service guys that I have that are on salary are considered managers and all have business cards and titles stating that they are service managers. I think then that I would be abiding the laws. I do have seasonal employees that help with deliveries and pool maintenance that work hourly.
Well, not really (at least in CA). You can call them what ever you want, but if the state comes in and determines their role is different, or an employee decides to sue, well, you can pay the fines, back wages, and back taxes, or you can pay your attorney (and then pay the fines and back wages ;D).
Even a salaried employee, if they work more than 40 hours a week, IS entitled BY LAW to over time pay. Most don't know this, and it's very rare for an employee to ever push it, and even rarer for the state to find out an employer isn't following this law.
As to why?................ Because the state wants every single penny they can collect from additional taxes
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There are 2 underlying factors, Wages & Federal Law.
Salaried and Hourly can be discussed separately, as to whom and which are exempt, but there are circumstances where salaried employees are entitled to overtime pay.
We had a very good employee who worked for us for 6 years and was paid well, on salary. He became disgruntled and walked out in a temper tantrum for the 4th time and the “family” of employees DID NOT want him back. Months earlier, I had helped another employee with the down stroke to buy a house and had agreed I would help him as well. When he got his nose bent out of shape and walked out, 3 days later he came back, “hat in hand” asking for his job back. I was forced to say no. He became very upset and threatened us with consequences.
He later sued us in Federal court for “unpaid overtime”. The Family was outraged, because he was never short changed a single red cent. He had no records to support his claims, and his attorney demanded a $15,000 settlement, as he was projecting a judgment potential of $150,000. The family declined the upfront settlement and considered it tantamount to blackmail.
His attorney was merciless and unrelenting. The federal law and the court said it was a matter for the jury to determine. We had to produce all of the evidence to support his claims against us, 6 years of time records, payroll records, service records, service calls attended to, and time on service. It was an administrative nightmare that went on for 3 years. The jury was out for 20 minutes and found in our favor.
He got nothing, and he was pi$$ed. His attorney, who was on a contingency fee, was not happy. Of course, we were scared shirtless for fear of how it would come out. Well, he got nothing and we paid $35,000 in attorney fees to uphold the principles of Honesty and Integrity, and treating him very fair in every way, so said the jury, but that was $35,000 later.
We never expected this to happen to us. Today, we have a very bad impression of our legal system that allowed this to be a major impact on an innocent “small business”.
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Even a salaried employee, if they work more than 40 hours a week, IS entitled BY LAW to over time pay.
Are you serious???
I've been getting the shaft! Unless....ummmm....how does the state actually define the term "work"?
Terminator (Hardest Workin' Spa Monkey in Town)
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You might want to look into your specific state's laws on employee/contractor compensation.
I am in Minnesota, and I'm a full time salaried employee. According to the laws in Minnesota, my employer is not required to pay me overtime. And they don't.
I'm in the Management/Highly Skilled Professional category, which the state exempts from it's overtime law. I also don't have to put in a full 40 hour work week to get my paycheck.
Other full time employees here do get overtime if they work more than 40 hours per week. And they are required to work a full 40 hour work week to get their base pay.
We have a lot of non employees (consultants) who I work with who do get OT if they work past 40 hours, but that's a contractual obligation as much as a legal one.
And they are seldom approved for OT- the company doesn't like to pay it if they don't have to.
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So Dan, are your service guys also considered retail? I am not trying to argue with you I am trying to learn... :-/
As I recall, the state simply has the business under one category, retail. So, our service guys would be under the same regs. :-/