Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Curious on January 21, 2008, 03:44:59 pm
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Noticed a new tub being offered by my local Costco today. It's called the OC 850L. Anyone know if it is a rebranded tub? The website is www.hottuboc.com.
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That is a Cal Spa.
8-)
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That is a Cal Spa.
8-)
Cool ! new mold.
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That is a Cal Spa.
8-)
I just saw this tub 'in the flesh' at the Kona, Hawaii Costco. We were there during our vacation since their gas is about 25 cents a gallon cheaper than elsewhere on the Island. ($3.42 per gal at costco) The tub looks pretty good. The Sony speakers on each corner are flat, surface mount speakers rather than the pop-up kind. So, they have got to stay wet all the time.....not sure about that. The Cal Spa info from Chas scares me at bit, too!
They don't seem to have an "island surcharge" at the Kona Costco either. A broiled chicken is $5.99 and a pizza is $11.99. Same prices as home. (plus they had great prices on Kona Coffee)
There was a hot tub at the resort (Hapuna Beach Hotel). Beautiful place, but after reading several threads here, I was afraid to use the tub without a full water analysis. I tried to get my Taylor Kit past the TSA but I couldn't get all the little bottles into a quart size plastic bag. ;) ;D ;) Just kidding...
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Hmm, very similar to my Jacuzzi J-370 (this one is 450 gallons, mine is 480), both have a lounger and both have stereo. The OC805 has more jets but no "footwell dome" so maybe that's a break even. I am curious as to how much Costco is selling these for. I didn't see the price anywhere in this thread....yet
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My favorite thing is seeing Cal Spas selling at Costco because...
1. I remember seeing a letter from Cal Spas trying to recruit Hotspring dealers when Hotspring started selling at Costco.
2. I remember reading this letter and it specifically stating that Cal Spas “respects" their dealers and would never consider selling their spas through a Costco type establishment.
3. It is amazing that they are selling through Costco. They just went down 2 notches in my book.
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My favorite thing is seeing Cal Spas selling at Costco because...
1. I remember seeing a letter from Cal Spas trying to recruit Hotspring dealers when Hotspring started selling at Costco.
2. I remember reading this letter and it specifically stating that Cal Spas “respects" their dealers and would never consider selling their spas through a Costco type establishment.
3. It is amazing that they are selling through Costco. They just went down 2 notches in my book.
I wonder if this is why they are shown as being made by OC spas without any mention (that I could see) about them being a Cal product? Maybe they're hoping to somewhat hide the fact that its a Cal. I didn't see a price or is that at the Costco site somewhere?
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Domain Name: HOTTUBOC.COM
Registrant:
California Acrylic Industries, Inc.
ATTN: HOTTUBOC.COM
c/o Network Solutions
P.O. Box 447
Herndon, VA 20172-0447
Administrative Contact :
California Acrylic Industries, Inc.
vg2tt6js2w4@networksolutionsprivateregistration.com
ATTN: HOTTUBOC.COM
c/o Network Solutions
P.O. Box 447
Herndon, VA 20172-0447
Phone: 570-708-8780
Technical Contact :
California Acrylic Industries, Inc.
vg2tt6js2w4@networksolutionsprivateregistration.com
ATTN: HOTTUBOC.COM
c/o Network Solutions
P.O. Box 447
Herndon, VA 20172-0447
Phone: 570-708-8780
Record expires on 30-Jul-2010
Record created on 30-Jul-2007
Database last updated on 30-Jul-2007
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That's exactly how I found them out.
8-)
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3. It is amazing that they are selling through Costco. They just went down 2 notches in my book.
Your book must have more notches than mine...
OK - that was low. But I will say this: HotSpring had their Costco program set up so the dealers could profit from it by doing full deliveries, selling Sub Panels and Ozonators, and by doing warranty work if needed. Of course, if the spa was located outside the regular service area a trip charge was to be expected. And the customers who purchased in a dealer's area were disclosed to the local dealer to allow them to connect and begin selling supplies and offering other support. I had zero in my area.
The HS program - which sold an amazingly LOW number of tubs - has been discontinued, btw.
8-)
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I just got a packet in the mail today saying we were qualified ::) to do service on that spa if we wanted. They even sent us a manual for it, with a parts list.
Doubt we will do it.
Costco seems to change spa manufactures pretty often.
The address on the business card inside is same as Cal-spa on there website.
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My favorite thing is seeing Cal Spas selling at Costco because...
1. I remember seeing a letter from Cal Spas trying to recruit Hotspring dealers when Hotspring started selling at Costco.
2. I remember reading this letter and it specifically stating that Cal Spas “respects" their dealers and would never consider selling their spas through a Costco type establishment.
3. It is amazing that they are selling through Costco. They just went down 2 notches in my book.
Chris - It sounds like the marketing department @ Cal wasn't talking to the distribution group. Now, If you could find that letter and a list of Cal Spas' dealers it might make for some interesting "mischief" to simply send them both the original letter and the advertisement and then see how pissed off those existing Cal Spa dealers get at their own corporate (wouldn't be the first time). It's not like they didn't send this out themselves.
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Is this their new "regular spa", or is it another road show?
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(http://hottubsoc.com/images/costco_hot_tub_submain.gif)
[size=20]
OC 850L Hot Tub[/size]
Sony Marine Grade Stereo Systems
50 Hydrotherapy Jets
UL Approved Dual Pump System
Ozonator 24 Hour Filtration for Water
M7 Command Station
5 Year Manufacturer Warranty
(http://hottubsoc.com/images/costco_oc85L_hot_tub.gif)
(http://hottubsoc.com/images/hot_tub_costco_OC_850L_large.jpg)
http://hottubsoc.com/hot_tub_specifications.aspx
The OC 850L luxury hot tub, is a high powered two pump system that
seats six, with 50 jets, an aqua therapy lounge seat, comfort head rest
pillows, standard ozonator, 24 hour filtration and a durable synthetic
wood cabinet.
(http://hottubsoc.com/images/costco_home_feature_jets.gif)
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My favorite thing is seeing Cal Spas selling at Costco because...
1. I remember seeing a letter from Cal Spas trying to recruit Hotspring dealers when Hotspring started selling at Costco.
2. I remember reading this letter and it specifically stating that Cal Spas “respects" their dealers and would never consider selling their spas through a Costco type establishment.
3. It is amazing that they are selling through Costco. They just went down 2 notches in my book.
Would anybody expect any less from Cal. Some folks on this forum wonder why the people in the industry don't care for them too much. These types of shenanigans are exactly why. It's SOP for Casey. Not that they are selling to Costco, but that they tried to recruit another company's dealers by saying, in print, they would never do that. Now here they are doing it. No surprise here.
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lets see the letter?
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Chas - How many notches was it supposed to go down?
Zep - I said I saw the letter. I did not say I had the letter. It does exist and I am sure someone has it. As someone said earlier, this letter details how this specific company operates.
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My favorite thing is seeing Cal Spas selling at Costco because...
1. I remember seeing a letter from Cal Spas trying to recruit Hotspring dealers when Hotspring started selling at Costco.
2. I remember reading this letter and it specifically stating that Cal Spas “respects" their dealers and would never consider selling their spas through a Costco type establishment.
3. It is amazing that they are selling through Costco. They just went down 2 notches in my book.
Amazing why? What does that say about Hot springs being sold through Costco? They tried and it didn't work but it was I am sure worth a shot? I thought they were sold at Walmart as well?
Sundance sold through Costco, Jacuzzi sold through Sams club, I think its a sign that every spa manufacturer is hurting a bit, sales are down, and they are trying to do what they can to get some of the action? Don't slam me on this but I am sure HS didn't sell as many spas as they would have liked last year either, same as Jacuzzi and Sundance, and probably many others.
I don't think a lot of people will pay top dollar for a spa from Costco regardless of the brand, if they are going to pay 7000.00 plus for a spa, they would rather buy from a reputable dealer. Costco and the likes spa's in my opinion are for btm feeders. I know Jacuzzi and Sundance have not had a huge success selling products there.
I think its just the sign of the times for awhile. I am hoping for a good year but it has not happened yet home show coming up so we will see what happens there. Traffic for me has been way down, and if its down for me its down for the HS dealer, and the Sundance dealer. I know the local Marquis store has not sold a spa since November.
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where you located jacuzzi jim?
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Bellingham, Washington.
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I think you misinterpreted my “amazing” comment. I was using plain spoken word instead of computer words if that makes any sense.
I was saying that Cal appears to have misrepresented themselves to “potential” Hotspring dealers. I find it "amazing" that they would not consider selling a product to a Costco type establishment and then 2 years later look what they are doing.
It doesn’t say anything about Hotspring selling through Costco. This topic isn’t about Hotspring and Costco. That was beaten to death 2 years ago. One thing I still don’t understand is your comment about Sundance being sold through Costco. When was this? Can you elaborate?
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Sorry, I misunderstood! And I was not around 2 years ago.
Anyway they are not on Costcos website anymore, it was a version of a 600 series spa, I think the burlington.
Our local SD dealer had spas set up there as well, in the store.
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"I find it "amazing" that they would not consider selling a product to a
Costco type establishment and then 2 years later look what they are doing."
Why?
As a co-owner of a business myself we see the business environment
constantly changing and we have to adapt......we offer products or
discounts today that we would not have considered doing at other times.
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It is a valid argument. However, if there was one dealer that signed up I would be pretty annoyed.
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The spa was priced at my Costco for $5699, and it appears to be the new warehouse tub. Seems like a pretty good deal compared to the $10,500 price I was quoted for the Hotspring Aria. ;)
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After questioning the cal spa (OC) people about doing warranty 8-) The warranty is 5 years pro-rated which means the consumer gets hit with 1% a month or 12% per year per warranty call, after 2 years it 24% of the warranty bill 36% after 3 years plus travel.
Service techs schedules to look at broken spa, calls factory and orders parts needed, with a return time of 2 weeks.
receives parts fixes spa, then sends parts back to them for a credit on his account. So from a consumer view its not very good, east coasters could look at 3 to 4 weeks to get there spa fixed. They also said they didn't want techs to carry parts with them which didn't make a lot of sense to me.
Not to mention after 4 years if your spa breaks down, you pay 48% of the price it cost to fix it, parts, labor and trip charge.
So far they are looking for techs in 12 different states, we declined as I was more curious than anything. which she didn't seem happy about, she said we could have from here to Seattle. about 100 mile radius. Sounds like they are anticipating some problems.
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The spa was priced at my Costco for $5699, and it appears to be the new warehouse tub. Seems like a pretty good deal compared to the $10,500 price I was quoted for the Hotspring Aria. ;)
Curious,
Believe me.....that tub I saw at Costo ain't no Aria.
IMO, it looked like a good $5,698.00 tub, provided that nothing major goes wrong in the first 13* years of ownership.
*For the 13 year part, I used the repair history with my own Hot Spring tubs as a guide.
Your mileage may (and probably will) vary. ;) :)
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The dually pump is not the greatest invention at all Only sold 3 tubs with it and replaced 2 after the 4th month. That pump is only used for tubs with 25 jets max on the regular Cals
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I guess Cal is just so smart they can pull one over on
one of the most successful companies in America.
Costco is in deep, deep trouble.
I need to call my stockbroker and short Costco stock bigtime!
Costco got to be a billion dollar company by being reckless
with the vendors they choose and pissing off customers by
selling junk with shoddy warranties and parts.
Gosh Hoss....if only Costco knew what we do about how to run a successful business!
::)
ps: Costco - Annual revenues: $64.4 billion
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After questioning the cal spa (OC) people about doing warranty 8-) The warranty is 5 years pro-rated which means the consumer gets hit with 1% a month or 12% per year per warranty call, after 2 years it 24% of the warranty bill 36% after 3 years plus travel.
Service techs schedules to look at broken spa, calls factory and orders parts needed, with a return time of 2 weeks.
receives parts fixes spa, then sends parts back to them for a credit on his account. So from a consumer view its not very good, east coasters could look at 3 to 4 weeks to get there spa fixed. They also said they didn't want techs to carry parts with them which didn't make a lot of sense to me.
Not to mention after 4 years if your spa breaks down, you pay 48% of the price it cost to fix it, parts, labor and trip charge.
So far they are looking for techs in 12 different states, we declined as I was more curious than anything. which she didn't seem happy about, she said we could have from here to Seattle. about 100 mile radius. Sounds like they are anticipating some problems.
Turning down that business was probably one of the smartest things you ever did. To think about it ... the original buyer probably doesn't read ALL the warranty details and when something does happen thinks.."Well, it's under warranty so I'll just call and get the service done". OC/Cal Spas takes the warranty request and (knowing them) does not tell the end user about the cost but rather leaves that little detail up to the "authorized" service tech (AST from here forth) to deliver the "good news" to the owner that he has to pony up 48% of the cost in order to get the service work done. At which point, he would simply blame the "messenger"/AST rather than the mfg (simply because he can access you and can't get to the mfg anyway but through YOU, the AST. Yep, your name gets smeared as disreputable in the market and Cal Spas "gets away clean"....once more (because their name isn't anywhere easily identifiable. The won't remember OC either, just the name of THAT AST who tried to swindle them outta cash. Heck, they may even think the 48% they DO pay goes all in your pocket and your just taking the MFG's cash. LOL. Having heard the prior stories about how Cal treated their prior AST's, I also would not be waiting on pins and needles for the to honor ANY part returns. I think the most common MOD was to stall, say they never received the part, stall some more, file a lien/grievence against the AST for withholding THEIR asset. Stall some more and then simply go "belly up" leaving behind a lot of unpaid debt and then opening up the EXACT same operation under a slightly different name or maybe even simply say that they "sold" their interest to another owner who (of course) does not agree to honor ANYTHING the prior, unscrupulous owner(s) may have promised or defaulted upon...and then the entire cycle starts all over again...LOL, oh well, at least they are consistent (as if being consistently crooked is of any value).
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I was saying that Cal appears to have misrepresented themselves to “potential” Hotspring dealers. I find it "amazing" that they would not consider selling a product to a Costco type establishment and then 2 years later look what they are doing.
The letter was actually sent to existing Hot Spring dealers in an attempt to get them to move over to Cal Spa. I, too, saw the letter. A dealer friend of mine sells Hot Spring and sold Cal Flames grills. They were pretty peeved when they got the letter.
In the end, they dropped Cal Flames. The letter was kind of the straw on the camel's back. They had been having major issues with bad grills and no warranty support from the factory. They couldn't get paid regularly for the warranty work they were doing. Then, when they got the letter, it just sent them over the edge.
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I guess Cal is just so smart they can pull one over on
one of the most successful companies in America.
Costco is in deep, deep trouble.
I need to call my stockbroker and short Costco stock bigtime!
Costco got to be a billion dollar company by being reckless
with the vendors they choose and pissing off customers by
selling junk with shoddy warranties and parts.
Gosh Hoss....if only Costco knew what we do about how to run a successful business!
::)
ps: Costco - Annual revenues: $64.4 billion
Costco is smart. They will take returns even a year later if your not happy. The company, Cal Spas had to sign paperwork saying that they would take them back (through Costco) for a fee. Cal Spa's doesn't find someone (anyone) to service these things in the field and in a year or two they will start seeing these things come back in and it will start costing Cal Spa's a LOT of money (as per their agreement with Costco) so... Costco smart (for both Costco shareholders as well as Costco customers)... Cal Spa's stupid. I would be willing to bet you that some salesperson somewhere inside Cal is making a Mint off this agreement. I would also be willing to bet you that Cal Spa's mgmt couldn't care less and has probably never ever read the commitment paperwork that this rep signed on their behalf (that of course is assuming they even have a legal department). Three years down the road with the SXXT is hitting the fan, that rep will have moved onto his next gig and someone (@ Cal) will be left holding the bag.... time for one more re-structuring effort. Of course, I could be wrong and Cal might now make an excellent product and .... ah heck who am I trying to kid????
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Amazing why? What does that say about Hot springs being sold through Costco? They tried and it didn't work but it was I am sure worth a shot? I thought they were sold at Walmart as well?
Sundance sold through Costco, Jacuzzi sold through Sams club, I think its a sign that every spa manufacturer is hurting a bit, sales are down, and they are trying to do what they can to get some of the action? Don't slam me on this but I am sure HS didn't sell as many spas as they would have liked last year either, same as Jacuzzi and Sundance, and probably many others.
I don't think a lot of people will pay top dollar for a spa from Costco regardless of the brand, if they are going to pay 7000.00 plus for a spa, they would rather buy from a reputable dealer. Costco and the likes spa's in my opinion are for btm feeders. I know Jacuzzi and Sundance have not had a huge success selling products there.
I think its just the sign of the times for awhile. I am hoping for a good year but it has not happened yet home show coming up so we will see what happens there. Traffic for me has been way down, and if its down for me its down for the HS dealer, and the Sundance dealer. I know the local Marquis store has not sold a spa since November.
The program was never successful for Watkins. Remember, the spa was only shown as "From the makers of Hot Spring." It was not branded a Hot Spring Spa as the warranty was shorter and smaller pumps were used.
That was not the right spa for Costco's website. People buying a spa on websites typically look at jet count, horsepower and overall curb appeal. Many of the other spas on Costco.com had many more jets, et al, for a lower price. If you didn't frequent this forum or didn't do much research, you'd probably buy what looked to be a better value. Watkins' rationale was many higher end items are sold on costco.com that are not sold in the store, so maybe those customers will be the ones to buy this spa. Needless to say, it didn't work. As Chas mentioned, Watkins has dropped the program.
See my new post on buying from Costco.
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ndabunka....yeah I only wish my company was as "stupid" as Cal with
over 500 storefronts and just opening a brand new 1 million sq foot
manufacturing facility on a 45 acre company campus with estimated
annual sales of $241,852,000.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y273/ItsZep/Hot%20Tub/20071102_LATimes.jpg)
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Costco is smart. They will take returns even a year later if your not happy. The company, Cal Spas had to sign paperwork saying that they would take them back (through Costco) for a fee. Cal Spa's doesn't find someone (anyone) to service these things in the field and in a year or two they will start seeing these things come back in and it will start costing Cal Spa's a LOT of money (as per their agreement with Costco) so... Costco smart (for both Costco shareholders as well as Costco customers)... Cal Spa's stupid. I would be willing to bet you that some salesperson somewhere inside Cal is making a Mint off this agreement. I would also be willing to bet you that Cal Spa's mgmt couldn't care less and has probably never ever read the commitment paperwork that this rep signed on their behalf (that of course is assuming they even have a legal department). Three years down the road with the SXXT is hitting the fan, that rep will have moved onto his next gig and someone (@ Cal) will be left holding the bag.... time for one more re-structuring effort. Of course, I could be wrong and Cal might now make an excellent product and .... ah heck who am I trying to kid????
I doubt Costco worked with a "rep" on this. I'm sure Casey had his hands in the dealings and knows exactly what he is in for. I'd say it's a calculated risk that most people will not return their spa.
From what I can tell, most people who buy a spa from Costco, Home Depot, Lowe's, etc, don't really do much research on spas. So, if you have never experienced what you get from a top line dealer/brand, you might not know that you didn't get what you were looking for.
I would also imagine that if Costco had a lot of their customers returning spas - even if it's on the mfgs dime - they would have re-evaluated the program. They are a smart company. If they had a category that was constantly being returned, I'd think they'd drop that category. Eventually, it would be a cost to them.
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From what I can tell, most people who buy a spa from Costco, Home Depot, Lowe's, , etc, don't really do much research on spas. So, if you have never experienced what you get from a top line dealer/brand, you might not know that you didn't get what you were looking for.
Very true Vanguard.....
One of my co-workers bought a basic spa from one of these places
like Home Depot/Costco/Sams/RecWarehouse....I am not sure exactly where.
He doesn't have alot of money.....so he grabbed a brand new spa for like $2500.
He's had it over a year now and the other day I asked him how he liked it.
He said it's great......he loves it.
He uses it more than I use mine.
Theres no way he could have afforded a $7-10K spa.
If something breaks, he'll scrape together the money and fix it.
Thus far he says it runs like a champ.
It would be interesting to see data on how big the "discount spa" niche
really is.
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I would buy that "Cal" tub over any of the others from Costco. I would also bet that Cal got a much better deal then Hydrospas did. After all the Costco financial details were highly publicized and Costco needed someone with production capacity. Im sure Cal/OC will come out on top of this deal.
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I would buy that "Cal" tub over any of the others from Costco.
I agree but I would also prefer a punch in the shoulder versus a punch in the gut. ;)
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I would also be willing to bet you that Cal Spa's mgmt couldn't care less and has probably never ever read the commitment paperwork that this rep signed on their behalf (that of course is assuming they even have a legal department).
As a matter of fact, they do have a legal department. And it has been known to go after unscrupulous internet re-branders from time to time...
;) ;D ::)
8-)
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Just went to www.costco.com and saw other tubs made by Tatum manufacturing which is gulf coast spa. Junk.
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I guess Cal is just so smart they can pull one over on
one of the most successful companies in America.
Costco is in deep, deep trouble.
I need to call my stockbroker and short Costco stock bigtime!
Costco got to be a billion dollar company by being reckless
with the vendors they choose and pissing off customers by
selling junk with shoddy warranties and parts.
Gosh Hoss....if only Costco knew what we do about how to run a successful business!
::)
ps: Costco - Annual revenues: $64.4 billion
I don't think anyone here claimed that Costco was going to get hurt by this. They're not. The vendors (in this case, Cal Spas) take the hit if there's a return or problem. The customers take a hit when they need service and encounter the "fine print". The dealers take a hit because they lose sales to customers who think they're getting the same exact thing they'd get from a dealer, but for super cheap.
The ability of the big box stores to strike a deal that's good for them has been covered in many other threads.
The whole point to the "big box" store is that you're saving money because you're buying in VOLUME. Costco buys toilet paper in huge quantities, so they get volume discounts from their vendors. They require their customers to buy toilet paper in bulk, and in turn pass some of the same savings to their customers.
It could be said that Costco saves you some money because they're buying hot tubs in bulk. However, the average consumer only buys one hot tub, so there's obviously no volume savings there. At best, Costco has a volume discount for buying in quantities from the hot tub manufacturers. However, at least as of now it doesn't seem like Costco is a major player in the hot tub market. If you want clothes, groceries, paper products, etc., you almost have no choice but to go to Costco or another big box store. So, obviously Costco has the volume discount going, & they can control price & product availability.
But hot tubs? What percentage of the hot tub business does Costco control? The bigger that % gets, the more you can safely say that Costco's discount pricing strategy is getting the consumer a better deal. For now, though, I just don't see it.
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As a matter of fact, they do have a legal department. And it has been known to go after unscrupulous internet re-branders from time to time...
;) ;D ::)
8-)
Probably had to use it when they tried to directly copy other brand's spas. I remember when they came out with an exact duplicate of the Solana TX in their Home Series Spas. Notice the HSS? Now, their corner spa looks a different.
I don't think Watkins took that as a compliment.
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One thing I have noticed DP that Sam's and Costco are not the place to really save on paper goods. ( I have wondered why)....but to the point. People here on this board know Hot Springs is a great maker of tubs but the average consumer is clueless as to who Hot Springs is...the only brand and it is debatable as to weather they know its a brand or think all Spas are a Jacuzzi is Jacuzzi....Cal Spas, Hot Springs, Sundance, Marquis , etc all probably mean very little to the average consumer and as it was pointed out, jet count, bells and whistles are whats going to sell on most any Internet site including Costco.
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One thing I have noticed DP that Sam's and Costco are not the place to really save on paper goods. ( I have wondered why)....
Mendo:
You are correct re: paper products. It took me a while to realize this, but I can get better deals on bathroom tissue and paper towels at my local food store and buy less than I am required to at Costco. I don't know why this is, either.
Rich
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A friend of a friend works in Cal Spa factory. He said they are projecting 3000 units. There are over 100 Costco locations in California alone. That would project to less than 30 units per location. Now go nationwide. If there are 1000 locations they are projecting 3 sales per location.
I do believe that represents realistically how much market share these programs have.
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A friend of a friend works in Cal Spa factory. He said they are projecting 3000 units. There are over 100 Costco locations in California alone. That would project to less than 30 units per location. Now go nationwide. If there are 1000 locations they are projecting 3 sales per location.
I do believe that represents realistically how much market share these programs have.
The new costco/cal-spa full foam tub should sell like wild fire.it has addressed most of the put downs you all have been doing.
We shall see ;)
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Last time I checked, Wild Fire wasn't a great seller. In fact, a lot of people do what they can to get rid of it. Just sayin'... :o
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In fact, a lot of people do what they can to get rid of it. Just sayin'... :o
Spa Dealers?? ;D
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I did say way back then----if they sold full foam spas, with thicker covers over the internet or at the big box stores, you will all be in trouble.
How can you justify 4,000 bucks more for "what" seems to "now" be the same spa???
Think about it :'( I sure know the difference ;) Do they ;)