Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: NorthWoodsDipper on October 29, 2007, 12:57:35 pm
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I am not sure where to turn to on this costly issue. The Arctic factory will not help me with my spa warranty issue, even though my dealer sees that clearly my spa has a severe defect.
I have had my Arctic Summit for almost a year now, and for the most part, My family and I love it. The wood shell looks fantastic with all our woodwork - see photo below. We chose Arctic over the other brands in town because of the thick cover and overall design, which was supposed to be very energy efficient. I actually had to drive 60 miles to find a dealer as there was not one in my city of 80,000. But there were sure a lot of other brands, all of which were less money. But like I said, I wanted the best, and the Arctic sure seemed to be "top shelf".
When the weather turned cold last winter (central Minnesota) I noticed my electric bill go through the roof. It was incredible! I knew something must have been wrong, so I called my salesman. He had me check to make sure the cover was sitting tight, and sure enough, it was not. Since my spa arrived, I always thought it was strange that I didn't get the "suction" when I lift the cover, like I noticed on all other spas. I also wondered why steam pored out from under my cover when it went through the cleaning cycle.
The problem lies in the flatness of the shell top. It is not flat. It appears to have "shrunk back" after it came off the fiberglass mold. It has almost 3/8" gaps. I can stick my finger in one of the gaps. I suppose this would not be such a problem, if the cover they make was not so robust. But if you looked at Arctic's ad, you would see how they pride themselves on their photo with about 10 people standing on the cover. The cover does not sag. The heavy duty cover, and supposedly low energy requirement of the Arctic line is why I drove 60 miles and paid $2000 more for my spa (my Summit was $9000) than the other brands that were sold right in my city.
I have to say my salesman and installation/service guys have been great to work with. I have no quarrels with them. They don't understand why the factory will not warranty this issue. But I have been going back and forth with them and the factory for over 6 months now.
Below are photos of the gap. Some are shown with a string pulled tight, and others with a 4 foot straightedge. Does anyone have an idea as to what I should do next?
Steven
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s20/NorthWoodsDipper/HotTubBobo021.jpg)
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s20/NorthWoodsDipper/Hottubissue010.jpg)
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s20/NorthWoodsDipper/Hottubissue011.jpg)
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s20/NorthWoodsDipper/Hottubissue014.jpg)
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s20/NorthWoodsDipper/Coverissue001.jpg)
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thats not right at all. I would be getting a lawyer involved. This should be a warranty claim as it is clearly a factory defect.
I too, have had problems with my arctic tub which I have attributed to a problem from delivery, however, I have recently been advised that it is not covered under my warranty. I was delivered a tub that was apparently damaged upon delivery due to a train accident while being shipped. My cedar lip edge that goes around the tub was damaged on delivery.
I was told that they would replace it, however, when they came to look at it, they sanded it down and re-stained it. Now the corner seem has pulled apart and I was told that it was not covered, I believe that this was because of the original damage that was caused during delivery from the factory.
Also, when the crew installed my tub, they, drilled the hole for the wire to big, and now I have a mouse issue in a tub that is not suppose to have a rodent problem because of the forever floor.
Tom has been amazing, in trying to get my local techs to come by, however, I have been met with resistance from my local end.
I love arctic tubs, and believe that they make a great quality product, however, I too am feeling the lack of support. I think you need to talk to Tom on this forum if he has not already responded. If anyone can help you, I believe that he will be a great start.
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The Arctic factory will not help me with my spa warranty issue...
I have recently been advised that it is not covered under my warranty.
Both of these issues had previously come to my attention and both were directed to the warranty department. Please wait while I investigate further.
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Thanks Tom! My claim of the top surface being so far out of flatness seems like such a no-brainer warranty issue. I am sure the factory just didn't understand how bad it is.
Steven
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did you send them pictures like these ones?? Perhaps these will help explain it. It was as clear as day from the photos.
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Some of those are new images and of better quality than the ones in the original submission.
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My Avalanche is pretty much Identical to that, possibly even more so in the corner where the "captain's chair" is.
Oddly enough, in the same colour as your's.
Never had much issue in the electrical bill. running the tun in winter seems to leave me with close to the same monthly bill as running the AC in July.
I do usually notice a spike in the months when I drain/refill the tub.
My main gripe right now is that the plastic on the rear side of the jets is peeling, leaving little crumbs of black plastic in the water, and the centering pivot thing on the back of one the the jets has fallen off, so the jet wobbles as it spins. Haven't brought it up with the dealer yet, as the tub has been drained for the last 6 months while SWMBO was pregnant.....just refilled and hopped in for the first time today since last February
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Tom, I was wondering how often Arctic replaces their molds, as repeated heating and cooling does take its toll on them depending on the material used to make the molds. I know at Pacific this year they are using porcelain molds which are supposed to last much longer and provide uniform molds flawlessly but of course this the first year.
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Some of those are new images and of better quality than the ones in the original submission.
Tom, are you refering to the photo of my sweetheart? :-)
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In the meantime, I wonder if you could use a 1/4" floating blanket cutting it into strips and adding them to the bottom of the cover in the problem areas.
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Wow- sorry about your trouble. I have no issues with my shell or cover, but I have found the warranty dept to be a bit ......no, lets say VERY frustrating to work with. (I was just about to post about my tub, so I wont hijack here, but I'm rooting for you!!!!)
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Thanks Anne! I think because I can still use my tub, the Arctic warranty dept. sort of poo-pooed it as me just being too picky. But what floors me is the dealer said my spa shell definitely had issues.
Oh well, hopefully Tom's resending of my photos in will make a difference! It just kills me to see the steam (heating dollars) pouring out of my tub during the cleaning cycles!
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stick a few socks in the gap for the meantime so you do not lose all that money. There were a couple of issues regarding that same problem so you are not the only one. They must be well aware of the issue and I am suprised Artic doesn't respond in a timely manner for you guys. As I noticed Tom has been the most caring so far but that doesn't help if the man upstairs doesn't acknowledge. They should give you a new tub for it being so out of Wack!
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for the guy that posted about the jets. They changed there jets at the end of last year, I was having the same problem, but now with the new line of jets under warranty, I have had no issues.
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stick a few socks in the gap for the meantime so you do not lose all that money. There were a couple of issues regarding that same problem so you are not the only one. They must be well aware of the issue and I am suprised Artic doesn't respond in a timely manner for you guys. As I noticed Tom has been the most caring so far but that doesn't help if the man upstairs doesn't acknowledge. They should give you a new tub for it being so out of Wack!
It sounds like arctic just doesent care if you have a problem. I bet the owner of arctic has a Hot springs
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It sounds like arctic just doesent care if you have a problem.
Do you think that having a permanent representative on the forums, with the specific purpose of arranging to help people who report issues, is the action of a company that doesn't care?
I bet the owner of arctic has a Hot springs
LOL. The company owns a Hot Springs, a Cal, a Beachcomber, a Sundance, and a Coast that we use in sales and service training.
It is certainly not our intent to seem uncaring, or to have customer calls ignored or put off! Feedback like this helps us to recognize problems that we weren't aware of. When a problem has been identified and the causes understood, we can work towards effective solutions.
This situation has been reviewed by one of our owners and steps are being taken to
* Improve and correct communications between departments
* Improve documentation and tracking of customer issues
* Ensure that the Warranty Department is more responsive
One of our customers recently commended a dealer for providing customer service "with speed and grace". While clearly we do not always achieve that, it is nonetheless a worthy goal for the company as a whole.
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Sounds like in other words, "it's not a warranty issue"
Guess we'll have to wait and hear the results from NorthWoodsDipper when he gets em.
Artic warranty explanation: "didn't you see our advertisement showing a picture of 10 people standing on the cover? This is also a picture of how to get your cover to fit tightly over the shell. We know of no other way"
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Sounds like in other words, "it's not a warranty issue"
Guess we'll have to wait and hear the results from NorthWoodsDipper when he gets em.
Artic warranty explanation: "didn't you see our advertisement showing a picture of 10 people standing on the cover? This is also a picture of how to get your cover to fit tightly over the shell. We know of no other way"
I guess there warrenty should read----dont call us??. I think we would be all better off with a used hudrospa ;D
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He might just get a refund because of this site? :Dwhat if there wasnt this site.
i think the more i see people spending 10 to 15 grand on a spa and getting the shaft on warranty, i look at getting another Nordic Crown Xl :) :)
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;D probably does!
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Tom, are you refering to the photo of my sweetheart? :-)
Yeah, but the picture was taken too far away. Close ups are always nice :P
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Yeah you'll need all those people standing on the cover! lol that is funny as hell. However I really think Artic should do something for these poor guys with warped shells. I really think they need to start considering some sort of infrastructure more along the outside like every other spa in the market. Am I wrong for thinking that? hmmmm.
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You people fricken amaze me. It's just too easy to sit back and criticize how everyone else runs a business. If you think a handful of people on a spa forum have ANY representation of a company and its willingness to look after their dealer base and end users, you are sadly pathetic! Truly!
Arctic has a great reputation for looking after their dealers and their customers. Show me a spa company or ANY company that doesn't have complaints or issues and I'll show you a load of BS. Name me a company…Ford? Chev? Arctic? Beachcomber? HotSprings? GE? Microsoft? Toshiba? It just sounds like a bunch of 5 year olds on this forum…
Tom has always done an amazing job at not only representing Arctic extremely well on this forum but in dealing with you shmucks that have nothing better to do than jump on a bandwagon and stir the sh*t. Get a life!
Any one of you willing to open up your business life and let US see your clientele and let US judge YOU? Thought not… Yep...it's pretty easy sitting back in your computer chairs and type anything you want. Doesn't take much brain power to do that and follow a lead that had no bases to make any comment. Can any of you that have taken this stand say that you have ALL the details? If not, I suggest you bite your tongue. Everyone sounds intelligent until they open their mouths.
From 104: "It sounds like arctic just doesent (sp?)care if you have a problem. I bet the owner of arctic has a Hot springs"
If we gave out prizes for the stupidest comment, this one may win. Absolutely moronic! ::)
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You people fricken amaze me. It's just too easy to sit back and criticize how everyone else runs a business. If you think a handful of people on a spa forum have ANY representation of a company and its willingness to look after their dealer base and end users, you are sadly pathetic! Truly!
Arctic has a great reputation for looking after their dealers and their customers. Show me a spa company or ANY company that doesn't have complaints or issues and I'll show you a load of BS. Name me a company…Ford? Chev? Arctic? Beachcomber? HotSprings? GE? Microsoft? Toshiba? It just sounds like a bunch of 5 year olds on this forum…
Tom has always done an amazing job at not only representing Arctic extremely well on this forum but in dealing with you shmucks that have nothing better to do than jump on a bandwagon and stir the sh*t. Get a life!
Any one of you willing to open up your business life and let US see your clientele and let US judge YOU? Thought not… Yep...it's pretty easy sitting back in your computer chairs and type anything you want. Doesn't take much brain power to do that and follow a lead that had no bases to make any comment. Can any of you that have taken this stand say that you have ALL the details? If not, I suggest you bite your tongue. Everyone sounds intelligent until they open their mouths.
From 104: "It sounds like arctic just doesent (sp?)care if you have a problem. I bet the owner of arctic has a Hot springs"
If we gave out prizes for the stupidest comment, this one may win. Absolutely moronic! ::)
Work for arctic
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Work for arctic
Is that a question or a suggestion?
If it's a question; no I don't. In fact, they were our main competitor when I sold Beachcomber.
If it was the latter, I have a great job already thanks... ::)
You missed the point entirely 104. I didn't expect you would get it...
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Is that a question or a suggestion?
If it's a question; no I don't. In fact, they were our main competitor when I sold Beachcomber.
If it was the latter, I have a great job already thanks... ::)
You missed the point entirely 104. I didn't expect you would get it...
People do a search on arctic. Google
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People do a search on arctic. Google
:-/ What was your point? I did as you asked. I got to page 6 and after seeing all of their worldwide network and cross promotional partners, I got bored from looking.
If your objective was to find negative comments, you failed. If indeed you have, again, I question your intelligence. I can find a bad review on ANY company.
What do you do 104? Please provide details of your company and your posistion within it.
BTW...I did find this...
Some say water and winter do not mix. Tell that to Bnui Spaidal, marketing manager of Blue Falls Manufacturing Ltd. in Thorsby. His company's revenues have grown 397% over the last five years with its Arctic Spas line of all-weather acrylic hot tubs. "Taking an outdoor soak during -40 C weather is not done just by thrill seekers at ski resorts; it's becoming a way to spend an evening at home with family and friends," Spaidal says.
Since the late 1980s, a growing number of folks have turned their backyards into year-round bathhouses, seeking escape from the stresses of the workplace, bumper-to-bumper traffic, and other daily anxieties. What better way to find relaxation, rejuvenation, and an invigorating massage on the frostiest of winter nights?
According to the 2001 Canadian Spa/Hot Tub Market Report by Pool & Spa Magazine, nearly 3,000 acrylic hot tubs were sold in the province last year, representing 14.4% of total sales in Canada. "In the past, fall purchases for winter slumped; now our Calgary and Edmonton showrooms are packed on Saturdays, and sales for the period are rising year-over-year," says Spaidal. "Alberta has the highest per capita hot tub sales of any province, and I don't see any signs of saturation. The trend over the last few years has almost totally been outdoor installations, now representing 98% of our business."
One of Alberta's leading manufacturers of all-weather hot tubs, Blue Falls Manufacturing's Arctic Spas line is known globally for its ability to perform in harsh climates. Making the "Next 100" list in Profit magazine's ranking of Canada's fastest growing companies in 2002, the company's gross annual revenues nearly doubled in its first three years of operation ($1.6 million in 1994, to over $3 million in 1996) to an impressive $25 million in 2002.
The company has developed a distribution network in the United States and overseas. Blue Falls now has 250 dealers worldwide, with corporate offices in Edmonton, Salt Lake City, Birmingham, U.K., Sydney, Australia, China, and most recently Boston. Spaidal expects value of worldwide retail sales will surpass $50 million in 2003.
Today, Arctic Spas sell in over 30 countries, including Finland, Russia, and England. The latter market, Spaidal says, can be very lucrative. "In the U.K., hot tubs are a much newer consumer concept, and they're willing to pay almost double, leading to larger profit margins," he says. "Internationally, Canadian hot tubs carry a strong reputation for quality cold-weather products, and Alberta spa manufacturers are becoming the up-and-comers."
While the company now expects to sell 1,000 hot tubs this year in Alberta alone, success did not come right away, neither for the company, nor the local market. "In the beginning, spas were imported from California, the birthplace of the hot tub industry, to satisfy consumer demand. However, the products usually did not have the insulation and technological requirements needed to operate effectively and economically in Alberta's winter. This sometimes led to expensive heating costs and frozen plumbing. The uncertainty led many owners to shut down their spas for the season."
To win back consumer confidence in the then-fledging marketplace, the newly formed Blue Falls saw an opportunity to create a hot tub model that would meet the local market's specific needs, while creating an exportable product to other cold-weather countries. The result is an insulated product that can sustain 100-plus Fahrenheit temperatures (approximately 40 C) without an additional heat source, even when the temperature dips. "We even captured heat produced by the motors to help keep the water warm," explains Spaidal. "Even if the power shuts off in winter, the water can keep from freezing for three to five days."
While the quality of hot tubs was rising, intense marketing had to overcome long-held perceptions about hot tubs and their users. "We wanted to reach the married 40-somethings with double income and children, and retirement-bound baby boomers with disposable income," Spaidal says. "When we started, many people associated hot tubs with the swingers lifestyle, such as the heart-shaped models for couples. It was necessary to show that the spa was not centred around the Austin Powers of the world, but the average person and their family." Over its first five years, Arctic Spas ran newspaper ads, showing how customers enjoyed their backyard spas. "The ads had to be attention grabbing, communicating both stress release, and the opportunity to hang loose. One ad, for example, showed people making snow angels in their bathing suits, and then jumping back into the hot tub."[/i]
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Blah, blah and more blah... Whats your point 104? I have read many of your comments, do you ever have ANYTHING good to say?
I agree with Steve.... Seems like Toms trying to take care of business and showing his concerns. Do you have any good input about this subject?
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Arctic = overpriced & overhyped.
Instead of paying someone to peruse web sites and blow a lot of hot air around, they should get get there manufacturing, warranty, and service straight.
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The really interesting part is that Arctic Spas is the ONLY spa company I know of that actually cares enough to have a communications officer frequent a spa forum to make sure that they are looking after their customers properly.
They could sit back and wait for issues to become monsters but instead, they pay an employee not to type a bunch of self promoting posts, but instead be proactive in their approach and deal with problems openly and allow him to spend a part of his time doing this here. I applaud them for that!!
Steve
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Some of those are new images and of better quality than the ones in the original submission.
Tom, are you refering to the photo of my sweetheart? :-)
Steven, that is a new image and of excellent quality. However, I referred to the ones with the string and level showing the deviation in the spa lip. I think they show the situation more clearly than the earlier set did.
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Arctic = overpriced & overhyped.
Instead of paying someone to peruse web sites and blow a lot of hot air around, they should get get there manufacturing, warranty, and service straight.
Arctic = higher end spa & marketed very well. Is that what you meant?
So what would YOU do different if you owned Arctic? It takes a grade 3 education to complain about a problem but much more to come up with a real, viable solution...
Please provide details on what you have researched into Arctic Spas and what their shortcomings are based off of your detailed data...
A bit too much for ya most likely...
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Guess we'll have to wait and hear the results from NorthWoodsDipper when he gets em.
Yup. Or from me.
Artic warranty explanation: "didn't you see our advertisement showing a picture of 10 people standing on the cover? This is also a picture of how to get your cover to fit tightly over the shell. We know of no other way"
:D Good one! Here's the photo Rick refers to with the six original owners on the Arctic "CastCore" cover. The owners look a few years older now, but I think our cabinet looks much nicer.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s173/ArcticTom/ownersvacation.jpg)
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Steve your staunch defense of Artic comes across like you have a personal stake in there success or failure. You seem defensive, and quite frankly arrogant.
What you see as pro-active problem solving with Arctic's involvment on this site, I see as smoke blowing. Particularly the response from Artic in this thread.
As far as what I would do different, I clearly stated that in my first post.
And the only thing that is a bit to much for me is how enamored with yourself you are.
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Steve your staunch defense of Artic comes across like you have a personal stake in there success or failure. You seem defensive, and quite frankly arrogant.
What you see as pro-active problem solving with Arctic's involvment on this site, I see as smoke blowing. Particularly the response from Artic in this thread.
As far as what I would do different, I clearly stated that in my first post.
And the only thing that is a bit to much for me is how enamored with yourself you are.
I just respect the industry and the people and companies that try to make a difference. I defend them whoever they may be. You may construe that as whatever you want it to be.
The only aspect I find arrogant is this barrage of bandwagon jumpers that don't have the ability to think for themselves nor have the fortitude to gain the information needed to make judgment. I had almost 2 decades in the spa industry and during that time, have gained the knowledge needed to substantiate my position. In other words, I know the facts and if I don't, I either don't comment as if I do, or I gather the information needed to debate a topic.
Your worthless post had neither insight nor intelligence to back it up. Just keyboard diarrhea...
I have NEVER known Tom to blow smoke or utilize this site for self promotion. He could...but he doesn't. He has gained my respect as an individual and spa representative.
You have "clearly" stated NOTHING and offered up no insight into your findings of any Arctic issues nor the solution to them. Not that I can find anyway... Please provide the link where you have documented these issues and ways you believe you could improve on what any of us are doing. I await your ultimate wisdom... ::)
Please don't respond too quickly...I'm just going to look at myself in the mirror again.
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I need to say im sorry to Tom And arctic for My beheaver .
Something happened today and i took it out on them. I hope tom can forgive me since i do like him the most. He has a hard enough job with out me pushing him.
John
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I just respect the industry and the people and companies that try to make a difference. I defend them whoever they may be. You may construe that as whatever you want it to be.
The only aspect I find arrogant is this barrage of bandwagon jumpers that don't have the ability to think for themselves nor have the fortitude to gain the information needed to make judgment. I had almost 2 decades in the spa industry and during that time, have gained the knowledge needed to substantiate my position. In other words, I know the facts and if I don't, I either don't comment as if I do, or I gather the information needed to debate a topic.
Your worthless post had neither insight nor intelligence to back it up. Just keyboard diarrhea...
I have NEVER known Tom to blow smoke or utilize this site for self promotion. He could...but he doesn't. He has gained my respect as an individual and spa representative.
You have "clearly" stated NOTHING and offered up no insight into your findings of any Arctic issues nor the solution to them. Not that I can find anyway... Please provide the link where you have documented these issues and ways you believe you could improve on what any of us are doing. I await your ultimate wisdom... ::)
Please don't respond too quickly...I'm just going to look at myself in the mirror again.
You shure can type ;)
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Something happened today and i took it out on them. I hope tom can forgive me
Sure, John. As I had already said in a PM on the other forum, I recognize that this was not like you at all. Hope everything works out okay for you.
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I am confused why is Tom even involved in this? Where is the dealer that actually sold the spa? And why isnt he dealing with Arctic on this problem and the other problem as well both separate dealers that cant handle warranty calls???
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Yup. Or from me.
:D Good one! Here's the photo Rick refers to with the six original owners on the Arctic "CastCore" cover. The owners look a few years older now, but I think our cabinet looks much nicer.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s173/ArcticTom/ownersvacation.jpg)
My bad Tom.
It only takes 6 guys to create a firm seal over your shell folks. Sure to save on energy costs, but man oh man, are you prepared for your new food bill? Those six guys do get hungry standing there all day you know. ;D
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You shure can type ;)
U shure kant spel... ;)
Hope things get better for you John.
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U shure kant spel... ;)
Hope things get better for you John.
Thanks :)I'll have more later on it. I speak Italian first.
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My best friend is Italian and I'm now learning a few things. Not just swearing either!
No worries if it's personal. I just hope things work out for you. Sorry for my rant towards you too. Normally I'm such a sweet, gentle guy and NEVER post like that! ;)
Steve
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. Normally I'm such a sweet, gentle guy and NEVER post like that! ;)
Steve[/quote]
Same here ;D
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My bad Tom.
It only takes 6 guys to create a firm seal over your shell folks. Sure to save on energy costs, but man oh man, are you prepared for your new food bill? Those six guys do get hungry standing there all day you know. ;D
What the hell happened to this thread? I only learned two things from reading this thread.
1) NorthWoodsDipper indicates an issue with flatness on the acrylic bar top. He has pictures that show the issue clearly and has stated he's dealt with his dealer who was helpful but Arctic's warranty person was not. He seems very credible.
2) Tom admits the pictures seem to tell a story and he will follow up on it.
HOW can anyone determine anything about Arctic's overall quality or their warranty department based on this single owner, his single spa and his single experience? If someone said they had an issue with Arctic and it was cleared up expeditiously would we conclude they are always great based on that owner. It works both ways.
In statistics this is referred to as a SAMPLE OF ONE!! You do not draw conclusions (good OR bad) based on single incidences or even a handful.
There are a couple spa companies I generally tell people I’d avoid due to a PATTERN of quality and warranty issues. If Arctic truly has a pattern developing for this problem or for not backing warranty issues it WILL become evident soon enough. In the meantime this thread should be about NorthWoodsDipper’s spa and not be extrapolated into anything more IMO.
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The really interesting part is that Arctic Spas is the ONLY spa company I know of that actually cares enough to have a communications officer frequent a spa forum to make sure that they are looking after their customers properly.
They could sit back and wait for issues to become monsters but instead, they pay an employee not to type a bunch of self promoting posts, but instead be proactive in their approach and deal with problems openly and allow him to spend a part of his time doing this here. I applaud them for that!!
Steve
Steve, you are absolutely right about Tom.
In the short time I've been on these boards, I've seen Tom take a lot of heat from an angry customer, and without missing a beat, jump right in to try his best to correct the problem and take care of the customer. In the case I am thinking about, I think he actually was responsible for running over a lakadasical (sp?) dealer who was not responding as he should have and getting the customer's (serious) problems resolved.
And I think you are also correct in stating that Artic is the only tub manufacturer to have a designated Communications Officer on the boards. It's true Tom catches a lot of heat sometimes, but I've also seen him step in and cool down some bad PR situations. He is worth every nickle (both of them ;D) that they pay him!
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Steve, you are absolutely right about Tom.
In the short time I've been on these boards, I've seen Tom take a lot of heat from an angry customer, and without missing a beat, jump right in to try his best to correct the problem and take care of the customer. In the case I am thinking about, I think he actually was responsible for running over a lakadasical (sp?) dealer who was not responding as he should have and getting the customer's (serious) problems resolved.
And I think you are also correct in stating that Artic is the only tub manufacturer to have a designated Communications Officer on the boards. It's true Tom catches a lot of heat sometimes, but I've also seen him step in and cool down some bad PR situations. He is worth every nickle (both of them ;D) that they pay him!
Thanks Rich and I believe he is the only one even though there are a few "spa salesmen" that would want that job. Unfortunatley for them...they wouldn't be paid by the word. ;D
I never had the time to come here and post during the day when I was in sales and it baffles me the time some spend here during the day. I guess it has been slow the past couple of years overall... ;)
Guess I got out at a good time. 8-)
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What the hell happened to this thread? I only learned two things from reading this thread.
1) NorthWoodsDipper indicates an issue with flatness on the acrylic bar top. He has pictures that show the issue clearly and has stated he's dealt with his dealer who was helpful but Arctic's warranty person was not. He seems very credible.
2) Tom admits the pictures seem to tell a story and he will follow up on it.
HOW can anyone determine anything about Arctic's overall quality or their warranty department based on this single owner, his single spa and his single experience? If someone said they had an issue with Arctic and it was cleared up expeditiously would we conclude they are always great based on that owner. It works both ways.
In statistics this is referred to as a SAMPLE OF ONE!! You do not draw conclusions (good OR bad) based on single incidences or even a handful.
There are a couple spa companies I generally tell people I’d avoid due to a PATTERN of quality and warranty issues. If Arctic truly has a pattern developing for this problem or for not backing warranty issues it WILL become evident soon enough. In the meantime this thread should be about NorthWoodsDipper’s spa and not be extrapolated into anything more IMO.
Come on Spatech, you got to read between the lines here ....
... and you come up with blanks! ;D
BTW, I do too!!!
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And I think you are also correct in stating that Artic is the only tub manufacturer to have a designated Communications Officer on the boards. It's true Tom catches a lot of heat sometimes, but I've also seen him step in and cool down some bad PR situations. He is worth every nickle (both of them ;D) that they pay him!
I have also wondered why other manufacturers don't do this. They're so careful when presenting their image in other formats - brochures, ads, signage, dealers, etc. But when it comes to the internet forums, pretty much any dealer or customer can "represent" them. When you consider that 70% of spa shoppers do some research on the internet before buying, you'd think more manufacturers would be interested in what people are saying about them.
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I have been coming to this website for a couple of years now. I used it when researching my purchase, and found alot of personal enjoyment reading the posts and learning.
I have observed a couple of things that happen from time to time, and it is always the same thing.
1. Some new person begins posting about what Hot tub they should buy. They always ask, what tub is better??? without even doing homework. Suddenly people post what tub they own and begin making blanket statements such as this model is the best.
2. Once the "Best" is stated, all different owners pipe up and say no they are not the best, "LOOK AT THEIR HISTORY". Now on with the debate.
3. Then this new poster hits the 20 to 30 mark, and has purchased a tub. They have spent alot of money on a quality product, however, in this hottub industry, everyone thinks that they have just purchased the best thing out there. The Rolls Royce of hot tubs.
4. While waiting for delivery, a couple of posts about the excitement, last minuite tasks and suggestions before delivery, followed up with a post of pictures of the tubs arrival.
5. The forum responds with great setup, looks good etc etc. (Never a negative comment, because we all remember how hard we worked to get to this point)
6. Suddenly these new owners, are now experts and love to hand out bull shat lines and slamming other brands. THIS JUST GIVES NEW POSTERS MISS INFORMATION. No evidence or intelligent research to back up these complaints.
7. A problem arises and several people jump in and start slamming a company as a whole.
8. The debate goes on, the post is hyjacked and then eventually the topic dies out.
Why is it when arctic is mentioned, people feel the need to make attacks on this brand. I have had problems with my arctic, and Tom was kind enough to look into it for me. I think this is wonderful.
How come in 2005 and 2006 when Sundance Maxxus tubs had a known electrical wiring problem, people didnt pipe up and slam sundance??????? This was a huge problem on this forum and many members were effected by it. Why wasnt that poor manufacturing and poor workmanship.
Why is it that someone comes here and posts a defect in his shell, do people raise the question that it is because Arctic uses a different construction technology then the leading manufacturers. Tell me how a TP tub can cause a structual issue. For the person who posted this assumption in the post, I feel that you are just stirring the pot.
The bottom line is WHO GIVES A F@##$. Your tub is the best only because it was what suited you the best. Nothing else. We need to stop jumping in and attacking particular brands.
I think it is wonderful that this forum exists. It creates a strong quality assurance for any company. When people research, they need to know that every company will have problems, however, these types of forums help to create a stronger sense of accountability. Arctic I believe has recognized this, and has created a position such as Toms to come here and read concerns and comments.
It is so frustrating to constantly come here and see the stupid pointless uneducated, and bias statements. I really wish that it would stop.
My 2cents.
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debate a topic.
Your worthless post had neither insight nor intelligence to back it up. Just keyboard diarrhea...
I have NEVER known Tom to blow smoke or utilize this site for self promotion. He could...but he doesn't. He has gained my respect as an individual and spa representative.
You have "clearly" stated NOTHING and offered up no insight into your findings of any Arctic issues nor the solution to them. Not that I can find anyway... Please provide the link where you have documented these issues and ways you believe you could improve on what any of us are doing. I await your ultimate wisdom... ::)
Please don't respond too quickly...I'm just going to look at myself in the mirror again.
Steve you are a funny guy.. but not on purpose!
Your diarrhea comment was brillant, you having more than 2700 posts on this site, are the KING OF KEYBOARD DIARHEA. Your obviously the type of guy that loves the sound of his own voice.
Keep posting Steve and thinking it means anything, its quite amusing.
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Steve you are a funny guy.. but not on purpose!
Your diarrhea comment was brillant, you having more than 2700 posts on this site, are the KING OF KEYBOARD DIARHEA. Your obviously the type of guy that loves the sound of his own voice.
Keep posting Steve and thinking it means anything, its quite amusing.
Actually, I'm not the King but instead sitting in 8th position in that regard. You could say, more of a palace guard... :)
drewstar 5045
wmccall 5042
East_TX_Spa 4841
Chas 4806
Brewman 3942
Spatech t.u.o. 3685
Vinny 3323
Steve 2743
I am strictly here to amuse and entertain the village idiots. The odd time I inject my experiences and knowledge but I try to limit that... ;D
Steve
PS You forgot to insert that link we talked about... ::)
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I am strictly here to amuse and entertain the village idiots. The odd time I inject my experiences and knowledge but I try to limit that... ;D
Steve
Ah, now I see. I always wondered why your expereinces and knowledge were limited. I didn't know it was self imposed! ;)
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morecowbell, love you avatar, but your comments here come off as a bit pointless and childish. Northwoods and I are lucky enough to know that commenting on our experiences here keeps Tom in the loop for helping things to improve, and this is a great place to keep things public. Why is it that us having issues with the warranty dept suddenly turns into Arctic bashing and criticizing their pricing? Why would Steve have a personal stake in this- he's just being a voice of reason and logic. You sort of dilute the point of this thread with you comments, and they are not at all constructive, so...... ::)
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I am confused why is Tom even involved in this?
I'm here because it's part of my job. Specifically, I am directed to monitor the forums to:
1. Provide accurate factual information in response to direct inquiries (while avoiding statements which could sound like a "sales pitch"--tricky!)
2. Correct material about the company or its products which is inaccurate or false
3. Act as a corporate spokesman and represent the brand in a manner which is professional, neutral, and impartial
4. Intercept genuine customer concerns and arrange for them to be dealt with.
In regard to the fourth point, we have already identified some areas of potential improvement and we have a plan of action to implement changes. Since this is strictly an internal matter that extends well beyond the specific post that started the thread, there will be no further discussion of that plan here.
Call that 'blowing smoke' if you want, but remember that smoke is a sign that fires have been lit!
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I'm here because it's part of my job. Specifically, I am directed to monitor the forums to:
1. Provide accurate factual information in response to direct inquiries (while avoiding statements which could sound like a "sales pitch"--tricky!)
2. Correct posts which contain material about the company or its products which is inaccurate or false
3. Act as a corporate spokesman and represent the brand in a manner which is professional, neutral, and impartial
4. Intercept genuine customer concerns and arrange for them to be dealt with.
In regard to the fourth point, we have already identified some areas of potential improvement and we have a plan of action to implement changes. Since this is strictly an internal matter that extends well beyond the specific post that started the thread, there will be no further discussion of that plan here.
Call that 'blowing smoke' if you want, but remember that smoke is a sign that fires have been lit!
Again Tom
I'm sorry i started all of this.Please accept my apoligy.
Did i spell that correctly?
john
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morecowbell, love you avatar, but your comments here come off as a bit pointless and childish. Northwoods and I are lucky enough to know that commenting on our experiences here keeps Tom in the loop for helping things to improve, and this is a great place to keep things public. Why is it that us having issues with the warranty dept suddenly turns into Arctic bashing and criticizing their pricing? Why would Steve have a personal stake in this- he's just being a voice of reason and logic. You sort of dilute the point of this thread with you comments, and they are not at all constructive, so...... ::)
To single out my comments as pointless and childish is funny.
Plenty of others here opened the pointless and childish door, I just walked in.
This thread has been diluted and off point and probably should be squashed.
Again singleing me out for that is funny.
My original post was staing my opinion, which I stand by.
And lastly if Steve is the voice of logic and reason to you,,, you really need to get out more.
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To single out my comments as pointless and childish is funny.
Plenty of others here opened the pointless and childish door, I just walked in.
This thread has been diluted and off point and probably should be squashed.
Ummm... excuse me, but this thread should NOT be squashed. Please remember that some of us here use this site for it's intended purpose, which is networking to find answers to our questions, and overall share our common love of spatopia.
I am patiently awaiting Tom's response, and like I said at the start of my post; I LOVE MY ARCTIC SPA! When people see the great looking natural wood along with all the other engraved wood on my deck, they go ga-ga! Happens every time!
I am sure the factory will take care of this issue for me.
Steven
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morecowbell is the only part of this thread that needs to be squashed. what a d#$k.
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Again Tom
I'm sorry i started all of this.Please accept my apoligy.
Did i spell that correctly?
john
Just so you know, the little red dots under a word means it is misspelled. You can right click on your mouse to get the correct spelling. That is, if you're concerned about it.
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Just so you know, the little red dots under a word means it is misspelled. You can right click on your mouse to get the correct spelling. That is, if you're concerned about it.
Hey Van....are you saying that you have a spell-check when posting on this forum? I don't get any red dots under my missspeelleed words. (no red dots :()
If you have a way to turn on spell-check, let me know.
Thanks, Rich
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I just thought it was a new feature of the forum. I have no idea how they show up. They just do. I get little red dots when I misspell a word. I just assumed everyone could get them. I haven't done anything to turn them on. Weird.
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Just so you know, the little red dots under a word means it is misspelled. You can right click on your mouse to get the correct spelling. That is, if you're concerned about it.
Nope ;D Hows that ;)
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I know this is off topic. I don't get the red dots either. Wondering what browser is being used that has the red dots.
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I just thought it was a new feature of the forum. I have no idea how they show up. They just do. I get little red dots when I misspell a word. I just assumed everyone could get them. I haven't done anything to turn them on. Weird.
No red dots here. maybe its all of you ;D
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I just thought it was a new feature of the forum. I have no idea how they show up. They just do. I get little red dots when I misspell a word. I just assumed everyone could get them. I haven't done anything to turn them on. Weird.
Are you on a Microsoft, Apple or Unix system?
Internet Explorer, Mozilla or other?
That might have something to do with it.
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I know this is off topic. I don't get the red dots either. Wondering what browser is being used that has the red dots.
Way off topic but evidently of interest.
I get the spell-check in Firefox 2.0.0.4 and can turn it on or off from Preferences > Advanced > General > Check my spelling as I type.
I do not have the spell check in Safari nor can I find one.
Don't have Internet Explorer on my Mac or I'd try that.
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(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/spagangstagramma.jpg)
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Are you on a Microsoft, Apple or Unix system?
Internet Explorer, Mozilla or other?
That might have something to do with it.
Tom has it.
I use Mozilla Firefox rather than IE. If you go to Tools, Options, Advanced...You will see a check box to perform a spell check. It must be on a later version, because Firefox used to not do that.
Didn't mean to get the thread off topic. Sorry. :-/ :'(
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Now, how do we convince our little buddy, John 104, that the Firefox browser is "way cool' and he should download it? ;D ;D
And so that I am not accused of further hijacking this post:
Hey Tom.....Can we have an update on the remmediation (sp?) efforts regarding Northwood's tub?
(maybe I should download firefox)
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The only downloading going on is, downloading of the spa cover to sit correctly on the shell. lol J/K. I'm sure its something minor and will be corrected by Artic because they are a reputable manufacturer. Oh and I never said that it must be something infrastructural I just used my common sense and figured it must have something to do with not having any 30 yr. pressure treated wood as the structure. Artic is the only manufacturer that I know of that does it this way and I figured the warping had something to do with not having equally distributed weight. I dunno just my 2 scents (cents) or whatever. ;) The idea sounds great on paper but I guess its not holding to the real test.
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The only downloading going on is, downloading of the spa cover to sit correctly on the shell. lol J/K. I'm sure its something minor and will be corrected by Artic because they are a reputable manufacturer. Oh and I never said that it must be something infrastructural I just used my common sense and figured it must have something to do with not having any 30 yr. pressure treated wood as the structure. Artic is the only manufacturer that I know of that does it this way and I figured the warping had something to do with not having equally distributed weight. I dunno just my 2 scents (cents) or whatever. ;) The idea sounds great on paper but I guess its not holding to the real test.
It looks like its the shell
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Actually, I'm not the King but instead sitting in 8th position in that regard. You could say, more of a palace guard... :)
drewstar 5045
wmccall 5042
East_TX_Spa 4841
Chas 4806
Brewman 3942
Spatech t.u.o. 3685
Vinny 3323
Steve 2743
I am strictly here to amuse and entertain the village idiots. The odd time I inject my experiences and knowledge but I try to limit that... ;D
Steve
PS You forgot to insert that link we talked about... ::)
I come here because there's garbage on TV. Yes, I do also come here to see what's going on and to try and help people. I also like the idea that help is here if I need it.
Over the years some interesting topics have been covered and we all have different views on things. It's a shame when it does get to the bashing level but I guess that happens in the voiceless, faceless world of the internet.
Anyway, Steve I'll stop posting if you want to gain some ground. ;) I do want a spell check as I sometimes can't spell for beans. I am impressed that Tom is paid to do what he does, most of us who post during the day are probably NOT working when we should! ;D
And you're all WRONG as Artesian makes the best spa in the world!!!! ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Actually, I'm not the King but instead sitting in 8th position in that regard. You could say, more of a palace guard... :)
drewstar 5045
wmccall 5042
East_TX_Spa 4841
Chas 4806
Brewman 3942
Spatech t.u.o. 3685
Vinny 3323
Steve 2743
LOL, I sent Bill a U-Michigan toliet seat and he added 3000 posts to my total otherwise I'd be on the second page of that list.
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well Northwoods, I hope they get you a new spa, cuz those 6 guys look like they eat alot, especially with winter coming, I'm sure they're just pounding away at your flapjacks. mmmmmmmmm syrup and butter, mmmmmmmm.
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To single out my comments as pointless and childish is funny.
Plenty of others here opened the pointless and childish door, I just walked in.
You are right. I should have spread the blame around. I read quickly, and your posts stood out. My bad. The criticism is officially spread to all who participated. ;)
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Hey Tom.....Can we have an update on the remediation (sp?) efforts regarding Northwood's tub?
This matter is currently under review and I am unable to discuss it at this time. (Translation: the big wheels are kicking it around and the meetings don't include me. ;) )
I can tell you that I have been examining internal communications patterns (that's not as vague as it may sound) and am busy writing training materials to address some identified needs.
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Ummm... excuse me, but this thread should NOT be squashed. Please remember that some of us here use this site for it's intended purpose, which is networking to find answers to our questions, and overall share our common love of spatopia.
I am patiently awaiting Tom's response, and like I said at the start of my post; I LOVE MY ARCTIC SPA! When people see the great looking natural wood along with all the other engraved wood on my deck, they go ga-ga! Happens every time!
I am sure the factory will take care of this issue for me.
Steven
Your right NWD, my apologies.
Please let us know if you are satisfied with Artic's response to your problem.
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" Using the wrong cover can cost you thousands! Why? If it is not Castcore®, it will probably be ruined by absorbing water over time. Like a soaked sweater, these wet covers have reduced heat retention ability and fail to insulate properly. In addition, they will get hard to handle and heavy to lift. This extra weight will make it much more likely to be damaged at the seams. In the manufacturing process of most covers, other companies cut their foam inserts and attempt to reseal them with plastic. This method has been tried and has failed for years! Only Arctic Spas® Castcore® covers mould the entire foam core around a steel reinforcement in the exact shape of every spa - no cuts, no moisture, and no big electrical bills or the endless high cost of replacement covers. As an extra feature, all Castcore® covers feature an insulating baffle between the cover halves to prevent heat loss along the seam. Choose Castcore® and save."
::)
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save what? I would rather have a cover that doesn't fit right than a shell that doesnt sit right.
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save what? I would rather have a cover that doesn't fit right than a shell that doesnt sit right.
I thought it strange that a major company that specfically advertises a superior shell/cover fit has to discuss wether this is a warrenty issue.
My opinion? Without a doubt, 100% it's a defective tub and the tub should be replaced. Artic should be on this like white on rice.
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You see that pic with those guys on the cover? I can tell you they ain't eating rice.
More butta please, yeah, and pass some more of that syrup too! mmmm mmmm
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Hey, Northwoods- Hope that you get everything taken care of, and tub replaced and all, but I had a couple goofy ideas for how to reduce energy waste while you are waiting. I cannot quite picture how big the gap is, but you could try:
1. buy one of those super cheap blue foam backpacking pads (I used one as a kid before Therm-a-Rest came along), and cut it to size to fit in the gap. even if it gets water logged, you could put new pieces in every few days if you had too, and a full pad should be enough for a lot of pieces.
2. If it is a really irregular shape, then get a heavy plastic bag, squirt some caulk (the type that stays a bit rubbery) in the bag, then let it firm up in the defect area, for a self-fitting insulating patch!
OK, this might be weird. But I thought it might be worth a try. ::)
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Hey, Northwoods- Hope that you get everything taken care of, and tub replaced and all, but I had a couple goofy ideas for how to reduce energy waste while you are waiting. I cannot quite picture how big the gap is, but you could try:
1. buy one of those super cheap blue foam backpacking pads (I used one as a kid before Therm-a-Rest came along), and cut it to size to fit in the gap. even if it gets water logged, you could put new pieces in every few days if you had too, and a full pad should be enough for a lot of pieces.
2. If it is a really irregular shape, then get a heavy plastic bag, squirt some caulk (the type that stays a bit rubbery) in the bag, then let it firm up in the defect area, for a self-fitting insulating patch!
OK, this might be weird. But I thought it might be worth a try. ::)
yeah, but first you need to tell those 6 guys that supper's inside the house this time. The only way you'll get em off the cover.
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Hey, Northwoods- Hope that you get everything taken care of, and tub replaced and all, but I had a couple goofy ideas for how to reduce energy waste while you are waiting. I cannot quite picture how big the gap is, but you could try:
1. buy one of those super cheap blue foam backpacking pads (I used one as a kid before Therm-a-Rest came along), and cut it to size to fit in the gap. even if it gets water logged, you could put new pieces in every few days if you had too, and a full pad should be enough for a lot of pieces.
2. If it is a really irregular shape, then get a heavy plastic bag, squirt some caulk (the type that stays a bit rubbery) in the bag, then let it firm up in the defect area, for a self-fitting insulating patch!
OK, this might be weird. But I thought it might be worth a try. ::)
Hey Anne- thanks for your ideas. As always, they are appreciated. I can see you have great problem solving skills. I can't help but wonder though, why it would be necessary to take such "band-aid" measures, to make up for the inefficiency of a $9000 spa. It is amazing to me that this is still going on for way over 6 months now on a clearly warrantable issue.
I have to wonder if the Arctic factory (not my dealer or Tom) is just hoping I will forget? My electric bill will not let me! :(
Steven
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Those suggestions by Anne were just for the interim until this is looked after properly and not a permanent "fix".
When was your last communication with Arctic (both your dealer and the factory) and what were you told?
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Steve is right- I was just thinking of stuff to do in the interim, so that you dont have to deal with soaring energy bills ON TOP of the frustration of a wonderful spa gone bad on you! I am sort of a freak when it comes to wasting energy (er......... but I do own a spa :-?), so I'd be losing my mind seeing steam coming out. Good luck!
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At a conference Sun-Mon-Tues so not up to speed on this, will review the thread on Wednesday and see what the status is on this.
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At a conference Sun-Mon-Tues so not up to speed on this, will review the thread on Wednesday and see what the status is on this.
Hot Tub Conference = sitting around and telling stories about the whacko dealers and their customers while getting SMASHED! I miss my old industry... :'(
;) Just teasing Tom. I know you are as pure as the driven snow... :)
Steve
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Hot Tub Conference = sitting around and telling stories about the whacko dealers and their customers while getting SMASHED! I miss my old industry... :'(
;) Just teasing Tom. I know you are as pure as the driven snow... :)
Steve
Except nowadays they talk about the wacky people who talk about spas on the internet as well.
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Hot Tub Conference = sitting around and telling stories about the whacko dealers and their customers while getting SMASHED! I miss my old industry... :'(Steve
Economic Development Conference. No other hot tub industry personnel around. I attended sessions on Message Mapping, Dealing with the Media, Getting Youth Involved, a round table discussion on best practices for retaining employees, and a Tri-Gov session on Community Development (Arctic has had considerable impact on the small rural communities where our factories are located). Inter-session chat included such topics as "What is your community doing to promote affordable housing?" and "How do you set up an effective receiving structure for foreign workers?"
We were a sponsor of the conference and I was there as corporate spokesman so I was on my best behaviour. But spa salesmen are clearly a more fun bunch than Economic Development Officers! ;D
Now, we are really off topic. Steven, give me a chance to review the thread, see what files I can recover after my hard drive crash on Friday, and talk to Warranty to see where this has got to.
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I think you all know where this has to go. HEHE Just take your time.
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Steven, give me a chance to review the thread, see what files I can recover after my hard drive crash on Friday, and talk to Warranty to see where this has got to.
No disrespect to you Tom, but I just can't understand how much discussing the factory needs to do to realize that my spa is as inefficient as an open barn door. This issue has went around and around for way past 6 months now, and I have been very patient with the factory and my dealer. But the fact is, this is not a $30 toaster that I can just throw away and purchase another brand. This is a $9000 investment, which is a lot of money for most people, me included. >:(
I hate to say it, because I like my Arctic Summit otherwise, however one of the "cheaper brands" (salesman's words) look pretty attractive right now, considering their cover actually seals.
Steven
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If there is no answer as of yet, can I scream it? "THIS IS CRAZY!" I wouldn't let my Mfg. leave my customer hanging, a real good dealer would deal with the customer correctly then deal w/ the mfg., ie. SWAP THE TUB AND DEAL WITH THE MFG.!
Yes, I have done that and it stinks to do it, but come on it's getting cold out!
NW, you need to make the Burn boys get you a new tub NOW! What a joke.
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If there is no answer as of yet, can I scream it? "THIS IS CRAZY!" I wouldn't let my Mfg. leave my customer hanging, a real good dealer would deal with the customer correctly then deal w/ the mfg., ie. SWAP THE TUB AND DEAL WITH THE MFG.!
Yes, I have done that and it stinks to do it, but come on it's getting cold out!
NW, you need to make the Burn boys get you a new tub NOW! What a joke.
Pretty much what I was wondering, but didn't get much of a answer. This should be dealt with by the dealer. Dealer replaces spa, and then he deals with the factory. Should equal a happy customer. Kiss any referrals good bye on this one.
Only thing I can guess is the dealer is gone, or totally unwilling to help,leaving the customer fending for themselves?
Should add no disrespect to Tom!!
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I just re read NW's first post, let me refresh....."He notified the dealer of this at the beginning of last winter" which puts that spa at months if not weeks since it was delivered.
There should be no "meeting" to discuss. There should be no "upper management decision"
Is there more out there than just this one? Possibly many more?
The decision to replace this spa is a low level decision that should be run by the money man in the company to find out if there is a mfg. problem and address that.
I would be embarrased if I was the dealer of this spa. Could you imagine being the dealer and running into NW at church or out at dinner on Friday night. I mean really how can this be going on for over a year and nobody address it?
And NW, why are you being such a push over to the dealer? I wish many of my customers were 1/4 as understanding and nice as you are.....I have had customers BLOW up because their spa light did not work on delivery or the installer forgot or overlooked the cover lock installation.
I have read this thread from the beginning with interest and not posted but felt compelled to finally take my time to type because of the ridiculous nature of this scenario. What a comedy of errors.
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I first brought it up to my dealer, who agreed that this was a quality control issue and thought that getting it taken care of would not be a problem. He sent it in as a warranty claim. Then when the factory said my spa was just fine, the dealer said his hands were tied. He suggested I contact the factory personally.
Basically, he was saying "you have an inferior spa, but the factory is looking the other way, hoping that you will just forget".
I waited patiently all summer, but now that it is getting cold out, I need this addressed. I am confident Tom will come through.
Steven
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This is a munufacturer issue, not a dealer issue. Granted, the dealer should be more aggressive resolving the issue. However, they did not make the spa. Spas come with manufacturer's warranties.
It seems to me the manufacturer is letting down both the dealer and the customer.
Meaning no disrespect to Tom, but this is not an issue for the communications officer. This is an issue for the warranty department and upper management at Arctic. Should have been dealt with months ago.
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I would be embarrased if I was the dealer of this spa. Could you imagine being the dealer and running into NW at church or out at dinner on Friday night.
Outlaw James is right NW Dipper, the dealer should be embarassed...but be careful! I had to take karate lessons in order to protect me and my family from irate customers back when we were having the check valve troubles in Ought One, your dealer might have done the same thing.
We got most of them taken care of, but a few of them (men, women, spinsters, and especially liberals) got a few karate chops to the backs of their neck when they got out of line. Even had to chop our youth minister and his wife during the Lord's Supper (she actually blocked my attack and tried a take down, but I mounted her like a duck on a june bug and choked her out).
All I'm saying is beware the spa dealer with the Iron Hand...he is deadly!
Term (Haaaiiahhhhhh!!!!)
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All I'm saying is beware the spa dealer with the Iron Hand...he is deadly!
Term (Haaaiiahhhhhh!!!!)
Duly noted! ;D
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I need this addressed. I am confident Tom will come through.Steven
Unfortunately, I don't have any decision-making authority in such matters. I am working on it but feeling frustrated myself, as our principals are away at a retreat or something and I am still trying to recover files from my hard-drive crash. Sucks to be me, right now... >:( :( :o ;D
Speaking of files, Steven, did you send the documentation I asked for? Haven't seen it yet.
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Tom,
I, for one, know that you do what you can. I also think you run into some internal bumps. This one is absurd.
I guess the good thing is Steven is only losing devalued American $$$$. ;D
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Speaking of files, Steven, did you send the documentation I asked for? Haven't seen it yet.
If you are talking about my electric bills Tom, then yes I emailed you my Jan and Feb '07 bills. They show the difference between the Jan and Feb '06 bills.
I am appalled that the factory demands to see my electric bills, like I am some sort of shyster wasting time running amuck with their warranty department. Trust me, I have much more productive and profitable things to do with my time. Does Arctic corporate want to know what my wasted time bill would come to? I would be happy to send that.
Didn't they see the photos? Is this quality really acceptable to them? What could they possibly be discussing regarding this issue?
What happened to all the great customer service claims, and the "regardless of how small it is, we'll take care of it" claims that were made BEFORE the sale? Guess they failed to mention the warranty excludes anything that really matters...
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I feel bad for you NWD. I think its becoming clear that you can not rely on Arctic's representation on this forum to get anything resolved for you. I took some grief earlier in this thread, but to date nothing has been done to prove me wrong. Toms job is to peruse the web and defend Arctic's image. However polite and articulate it may be, it is polite and articulate smoke blowing. Dont rely on the lip service you are getting here to get this resolved, seek another plan of action.
Imho, Arctic and your dealer have you in the revolving file, hoping that all the hoops they are making you jump through make you throw your hands up and quit.
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As it's been mentioned before, we cannot come to a broad conclusion on a brand or manufacturer based on one incident. That goes both ways.
There's no doubt that Arctic dropped the ball on this one and I think Tom will be the first to agree. I have also seen many more posts on this forum over the years praising Arctic and their customer service. Are any of us foolish enough to come to an overall conclusion on ANY company based off of stories we read on the www? Mabey if they all have a similar story and there's consistant bad reviews but I certainly wouldn't lump this one in with that deduction.
This needs to be addressed by someone...ANYONE with the ability to make it right and this isn't Tom's job to do it. It's great if he can assist but someone there needs to take action and that could be as simple as a phone call tomorrow morning to Steven.
I too questioned the need for sending power bill info but (and I may be going out on a limb here), it may be to consider compensation. The pictures alone would be enough to determine the fact that this spa is structurally a warrantable product. Why it took this long is an unknown to me but I don't pretend to know what has or hasn't been communicated.
My guess is that Arctic will do good on this for you Steven and I'm sure they are embarrased by the time frame as well. It has happened to the best of us at some point though that doesn't make it easier on you as the customer.
Though this format has its advantages in certain aspects, I think dealing directly with head office and the warranty department or upper management would be better served for you.
Steve
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Is it possible that Arctic is being careful in how they rectify this problem? Maybe due to the possibility that many more hot tubs than this one could be affected.
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Regardless, those spas would need to be warrantied if they had a faulty mold. I doubt there's a lot of these out there as QC would have caught on eventually.
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The company I work for does not make our customers deal directly with the manufacturer. To protect our reputation, we make the customer happy, then deal with the manufacturer. Yes, it is a manufacturer's warranty, but it's our name on the line. If the manufacturer can't make us happy, then we can look for a new one. If I was NW's dealer, I would seriously consider carrying a different line of spas. For what many of these spas cost, you could buy a car. It is a big investment. The length of time NW has had to wait is not acceptable. I think you have been way to patient and they are taking advantage of you. Making you produce your powerbills is ridiculous. Their product is defective and that is the point. Then to ask you if you had sent the information they asked for! Have they done what you have asked for? The powers that be for this company are on a "retreat" or something? What does that mean? An entire corporation is left with nobody that can resolve issues or make decisions. I've seen alot of people on this forum and others looking to buy a new spa. This certainly does not look good.
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I am appalled that the factory demands to see my electric bills
Woah! Factory had nothing to do with it--that was me personally asking for some data in case I need to make an appeal on your behalf. Be appalled with me if you wish.
I am frustrated that this is dragging on but I will continue to push for a resolution.
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NW Dipper, I offer another warning....DO NOT SEND YOUR BANK ACCOUNT INFORMATION OR SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER!!! It is beginning to sound like a 419 scam similiar to the ones operated out of Nigeria..Please! If this person posing as "Tom" relates to you that he is the former defense minister of Saskatchewan and is in possession of $20,000,000 that he is willing to split with you if you will only front the processing fee, DO NOT FALL FOR IT!!!!
I'm doing my best to look out for you but you simply need to quit being so gullible, dagnabbit!
Term the protective
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Just thinking out loud here, but is there not a contact at the factory that you can deal directly with on this issue Steven? Is your dealer completely out of the picture on this?
I know Tom is trying to help but what would you be doing if he weren't here?
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They'll probably propose to you a credit back for the tub or a couple of different options. Hopefully one of the options is to return the tub for a new one. I feel that they have many of the same issues that people just gave up on or didn't know any better and thought it was part of the design. Time for Artic to buy new precasted molding machines because I think that one was warped. The dealer should order the new tub and deal with the manufacturer because if anyone should have more pull it would be the dealer, not tom. No offense. Also I think NW should be compensated for the amount of money wasted for a whole winter and probably this one too. Spa dealers should have recalls and all customers should be notified of the recall. I understand if that was the case than Artic would be flipped upside down with this problem. Imagine they realize that the molding machine was warped for quite sometime perhaps 3 months and that all of the tubs produced during that time period have to be swapped out. Just keep it hush hush so the word doesn't come out and we get stuck with this giant problem. There would be no way Artic would be able to deal with that many tubs without taking a giant hit.
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That is kind of what I am wondering. Could be a very big problem with a lot of tubs involved.
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I wouldn't completely blame the mould. It might have been the an issue with the elements not heating up the acrylic enough on one part which can cause an inconsistency. I know that happened at Beachcomber in 05 and they bought a new machine. It could also be that there was an issue with the vacuum forming as not enough air was pulled out fast enough in an area and a couple tubs slipped out before it was caught. But w/e the reason on this issue, I blame the dealer first for not swapping the tub and dealing with corporate after the fact as any good dealer should. Second the manufacture, even with Calspa I have never seen anything take this long. What's the issue of taking it back & selling it off with disclosure as a blem for a discount? All companies do it.
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Northwoods, I hope this gets resolved very quickly.
But in defense (defence?) of Tom, (and probably because of Tom's efforts) it appears that Arctic eventually makes the right decision in cases like this. I use as illustration, the Baqua/crumbling Chinese jet situation, which they eventually decided to properly deal with and make right with their customers. It took a while but they did it. And as Tom has said in the past, he doesn't call the shots in these situations, but I think he does what he can to herd them in the right direction.
Unfortunately, "the powers that be" at Arctic still seem a little slow on the uptake when a problem like this comes up. Long standing, lingering issues like this cost them dearly in bad PR. Especially when the problem goes on so long that it winds up getting batted around the boards like this. They may as well just flush a part of their advertising budget down the toilet (loo) each year.
(And Term....that was High-larious)
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I think the dealer should have dealt with this correctly long ago. They should have swapped the spa and dealt with the sluggish Mfg.
I am positive that only dealers with good cash flow (ie. they have money) are the ones that would do this. I am positive that NW's dealer is BROKE and a JOKE!
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(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/snoopaloop.jpg)
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That sure was quick.
I was just sittin' back, remembering all the good times we had with SnoopAloop.
Remember the time.........
Nope, I guess ya don't.
(It's real slow here at the ranch today)
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I think the dealer should have dealt with this correctly long ago. They should have swapped the spa and dealt with the sluggish Mfg.
I am positive that only dealers with good cash flow (ie. they have money) are the ones that would do this. I am positive that NW's dealer is BROKE and a JOKE!
I repeat:
Spas carry Manufacturer's warranties. Cash flow or not, it is up to the manufacturer to step up to the plate.
There are good dealers, bad dealers, excellent dealers. There are dealers with great cash flows and not so great cash flows. There are dealers that are more or less customer service oriented.
In this case, at the least, the dealer should be communicating with Arctic, advocating for the customer vigourously.
But, why should the dealer eat the mistake of the manufacturer?
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NW Dipper, I offer another warning....DO NOT SEND YOUR BANK ACCOUNT INFORMATION OR SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER!!! It is beginning to sound like a 419 scam similiar to the ones operated out of Nigeria..Please! If this person posing as "Tom" relates to you that he is the former defense minister of Saskatchewan and is in possession of $20,000,000 that he is willing to split with you if you will only front the processing fee, DO NOT FALL FOR IT!!!!
I'm doing my best to look out for you but you simply need to quit being so gullible, dagnabbit!
Term the protective
Dang, busted. http://www.canadaka.net/video/243-arrogant-worms-pirates-of-the-saskatchewan.html
Tom Tractor
Former Minister of Defense & Piracy
Province of Saskatchewan
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A question for the dealers here,how would you handle it?
For us we would replace the spa, and deal with Jacuzzi for either money back or full refund of the spa. If we didn't get a full refund, we would take what we could get, and sell the spa at a discount.
We as a company, would never leave a customer hanging this long,granted things don't happen overnight. But it would have been taken care of at the dealer level and we would have a happy customer. Somewhat happy anyway.
For what its worth, we haven't had to deal with anything like this in the spa end of the company yet. Other divisions have had problems and they were dealt with it by us.
To me its cut and dry,the dealer should have dealt with it, and yes eat it if they had to! I don't think this will be the case.
I truly believe Arctic will take care of it eventually, but they have lost this customer and his confidence in the product, and any respect for Arctic, and the dealer.
I couldn't imagine them ever walking back in to the dealership after all this gets resolved.
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http://www.canadaka.net/video/243-arrogant-worms-pirates-of-the-saskatchewan.html
Canadians get weirder and weirder every day. It is John Candy's legacy.
Ya'll really need to quit huffing moose poo.
Term
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A question for the dealers here,how would you handle it?
IF the inconceivable ever occurred and we sent a spaturd out to a customer and IF they actually had the intestinal servitude to file a complaint, THEN the "Customer Service Special Forces" consisting of Ronnie, Stephan, Force Recon Specialist Brousseau and myself would pay a "courtesy" visit to the "client" sometime in the pre-dawn hours.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/mongoose2-1.jpg)
Beyond that, I am not at liberty to discuss on a public forum.
Terminator
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Tom, get your people out to see the tub and make him happy or refute his claim. Stop with the silly talk.
After taking the time to read this, the only thing I have concluded (in my opinion) is that a spa company should not have a 'Communications Officer' posting on spa web forum unless they are going to take care of business.
Surely your people have seen the tub, If he's full of crap, call him on it. If the tub is not level...fix it!!
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Well, there is good news and bad... First the good news. Arctic Warranty Department emailed to inform me they would send out a new spa to my dealer to replace the bad one. Now for the bad news. They said I have to pay the dealer to deliver and install it. I called the dealer, and since I am 75 miles away, his said his charge would be aprox. $500 to deliver and install. Also, since it is up on my deck (see photo of pretty GF), I need to get a boom truck out. Luckily, when I did the initial install, I found a friend of a friend to boom it in for only $200.
But it still is going to cost me $700 to replace the spa. :o
Not to mention unwiring and rewiring the spa and tearing down my Pergola and steps and then reassembling them. I am pretty fast, but would guess that is still about an 8 hour job. :-/
Steven
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500 bucks to drive 75miles and have boom truck do all the work. Your dealer is a piece of work. Rent a trailer get some friends and do it your self!!
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I agree with Jim. Your dealer is very, very lame.
Term
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Well, there is good news and bad... First the good news. Arctic Warranty Department emailed to inform me they would send out a new spa to my dealer to replace the bad one. Now for the bad news. They said I have to pay the dealer to deliver and install it. I called the dealer, and since I am 75 miles away, his said his charge would be aprox. $500 to deliver and install. Also, since it is up on my deck (see photo of pretty GF), I need to get a boom truck out. Luckily, when I did the initial install, I found a friend of a friend to boom it in for only $200.
But it still is going to cost me $700 to replace the spa. :o
Not to mention unwiring and rewiring the spa and tearing down my Pergola and steps and then reassembling them. I am pretty fast, but would guess that is still about an 8 hour job. :-/
Steven
It should be at Artic's expense as it was a defective spa from day 1. When you first purchased your spa, delivery was likely included in the purchase price. You recieved a defective spa; your initial purchase contract was for delivery of a non-defective spa. Therefore, they never fulfilled their end of the contract. Delivery should be their responsibility.
As for the "boom truck", that's debatable. If they don't want to cover the "boom truck", I would tell them you want to be reimbursed for the extra electrical costs and your time since the initial complaint was filed. The whole situation was alot of wasted time and energy; they owe you alot of "goodwill" for this mess they created!!!!!! (Dealer, Artic, or both)
I would put a little more pressure on them; it was probably their first offer. Also, read between the lines; why did Tom want your electric bills??????
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Arctic Warranty section from website:
[size=12]PERFORMANCE[/size]
[size=9]There will be no charge for on site labour to the customer for a period of five years from the date of original delivery
- specifically equipment, plumbing, shell surfaces or shell structure against malfunctions due to any defect in the material and workmanship within the Limited Warranty. Service and/or
travel outside of the designated service area are the responsibility of the customer. Service and/or travel costs are covered within the first 30 days of ownership to a maximum distance
of 100KM one-way from dealership or designated service outlet.[/size] If Arctic Spas® determines that repair of the covered defect is not feasible we reserve the right to instead provide a
replacement spa equal in value to the original purchase price of the defective spa. Spa replacement is done only at the discression of Arctic Spas®. Reasonable costs for the removal
of the defective spa, and delivery and installation will be the responsibility of the spa customer. Freight will be paid to the nearest Arctic Spas® distribution centre.
[size=12]DISCLAIMERS[/size]
Arctic Spas® will not be liable for loss of use of the spa or other incidental or consequential costs, expenses or damages that may include but not limited to, the removal of a permanent
sun deck, sunroom, gazebo, or other custom fixture, any crane costs associated with the removal of the spa for service or replacement. Arctic Spas® shall not be liable for costs
arising from water, filter cartridges and chemical loss. Arctic Spas® shall not be responsible for inadequate radio reception pertaining to the Aquatremor™ sound system. Under no
circumstances shall Arctic Spas® or any of its representatives be liable for any injury to any person or damage to any property, howsoever arising from the spa. Arctic Spas® warranties are
limited to a maximum amount of moneys received by Arctic Spas® with respect to the sale of the spa.
$700 is a bit much to replace a defective spa. Since the dealer will be getting paid by Arctic for time to replace the spa and since its in Canadian funds I assume, that dealer will be well covered and there should be no charge for replacement except the crane.
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Arctic Warranty section from website:
[size=12]PERFORMANCE[/size]
[size=9]There will be no charge for on site labour to the customer for a period of five years from the date of original delivery
- specifically equipment, plumbing, shell surfaces or shell structure against malfunctions due to any defect in the material and workmanship within the Limited Warranty. Service and/or
travel outside of the designated service area are the responsibility of the customer. Service and/or travel costs are covered within the first 30 days of ownership to a maximum distance
of 100KM one-way from dealership or designated service outlet.[/size] If Arctic Spas® determines that repair of the covered defect is not feasible we reserve the right to instead provide a
replacement spa equal in value to the original purchase price of the defective spa. Spa replacement is done only at the discression of Arctic Spas®. Reasonable costs for the removal
of the defective spa, and delivery and installation will be the responsibility of the spa customer. Freight will be paid to the nearest Arctic Spas® distribution centre.
[size=12]DISCLAIMERS[/size]
Arctic Spas® will not be liable for loss of use of the spa or other incidental or consequential costs, expenses or damages that may include but not limited to, the removal of a permanent
sun deck, sunroom, gazebo, or other custom fixture, any crane costs associated with the removal of the spa for service or replacement. Arctic Spas® shall not be liable for costs
arising from water, filter cartridges and chemical loss. Arctic Spas® shall not be responsible for inadequate radio reception pertaining to the Aquatremor™ sound system. Under no
circumstances shall Arctic Spas® or any of its representatives be liable for any injury to any person or damage to any property, howsoever arising from the spa. Arctic Spas® warranties are
limited to a maximum amount of moneys received by Arctic Spas® with respect to the sale of the spa.
$700 is a bit much to replace a defective spa. Since the dealer will be getting paid by Arctic for time to replace the spa and since its in Canadian funds I assume, that dealer will be well covered and there should be no charge for replacement except the crane.
You can check your local laws on warranties as published warranty disclaimers can not supersede local laws.
Here in Ontario Canada, I deal daily with warranty claims and the warranty disclaimers we use are not applicable in many areas of the country. If the customer puts the reason in writing, we give in and cover the warranty issue.
FYI, where I work has nothing to do with hot tubs/spas.
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Everything is negotiable. Just politely try putting a little pressure on them by reminding them of the customer service and public relations mess that has needlessly been created here over the past year.
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This is from Artic's website; notice the bold/underlined sentence.
ALL WARRANTIES
The warranties contained herein are all of the warranties provided by Arctic Spas® to the customer, and to the extent permitted by law. Warranty registration (within 30 days of delivery) is the
responsibility of the customer and is a condition of warranty coverage. (Please refer to the instructions on the registration form provided with the spa or register at www.arcticspas.com) This Warranty
is offered as an extra benefit and does not affect your statutory rights. All warranties herein require that any claim must be submitted to Arctic Spas® within ten days of the time the defect is
discovered, and must be accompanied by the original customer’s receipt confirming purchase of the spa, which shows the date of purchase. All warranty claims must be submitted within the warranty
period. Failure to provide such notice and information invalidates all warranties provided hereunder. Arctic Spas® reserves the right to repair or replace components or materials at its option. In certain
cases, photographs may be required for proper evaluation before warranty cover is determined. In the event a customer is unable to either obtain parts or satisfactory service from a Factory Authorized
Dealer of Arctic Spas®, notice should be given immediately to the service department of the agent where the spa was purchased and to Arctic Spas®
Very few consumers understand this line. It basically means that portions of the stated warranty do not apply if the laws in your area give you certain/different rights.
Research the consumer laws in your state!!!
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Does this mean that you have a brand new tub with whatever updates happened in the last year, and a new 5 yr warranty as of now? It better, if you have to pay $500 just for them to make good on a BAD SPA.
Are they going to reimburse you for your extra energy use for the last year?
Seems like they could at least throw in some sort of bone- a new cover, lots of chemicals, some sort of "were sorry for being really, really bad at our job for the last year" gift.
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500 bucks to drive 75miles and have boom truck do all the work. Your dealer is a piece of work. Rent a trailer get some friends and do it your self!!
I agree....that dealer is pretty lame to charge you that much. You'd think they would work with the Manufacturer and do it for you N/C, no matter WHAT the written warranty says. You're dealer does not sound like he is truly on your side at all...
JMHO
The Doob
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This is ridiculous! I try to not talk bad about my competition but if anyone is looking at an Arctic Spa, I'm going to have to tell them to read this website.
little ole dealer down south
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I now belive that nothing would of been done if not for this site and others.
I belive Arctic is still treating its customers like they did before the internet and forums like this.
Look how many people would have got a hydro-spa but did not because they got on a forum and lisened to others real views about it and other spas out there.
I would tell arctic to give me my money back so i can go get a spa from a maker that cares about it customers after the sale not just when there taking there money.
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Does this mean that you have a brand new tub with whatever updates happened in the last year, and a new 5 yr warranty as of now? It better, if you have to pay $500 just for them to make good on a BAD SPA.
When replacing a spa under warranty from just about all the major manufacturers, the spa you get is brand new with the updates but the warranty dates back to the original purchase.
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Of course, why should it be any other way! :P
Tony is right on, ol' NW keeps gettin it from the tail side from these guys....
I still can't believe NW had to by pass the dealer to get this resolved (ie. the dealer did nothing to help) then the dealer turns NW around and charges him big money for a small job...
To quote a wise man on this form "This dealer is lame"
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Dang, busted. http://www.canadaka.net/video/243-arrogant-worms-pirates-of-the-saskatchewan.html
Tom Tractor
Former Minister of Defense & Piracy
Province of Saskatchewan
Ok, after watching that video, I admit it.
Sometimes, Canadians scare me more than Texans do.
Mid-Atlantic Rich
Trapped like a rat.
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Lame duck dealer Inc. First NW should go to the dealer and pull the owner to the side and look him dead in the eye. Say, "Listen don't lie"! I know you tryin to rip me off to make me cry.
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Just Joke around with him in the beggining with some rhymes than after he starts laughing you stop immediately and turn to him with a serious look and say dude your not seriously going to charge me, right?
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I would go to the dealer, talk to the owner, explain nicely at first that they gave you a defective spa and you are not paying a cent. Then if the conversation gets to a place it shouldn't explain to the dealer that IF you need to pay you will BUT expect to get called into court to recoup the money AND you will contact the local paper(s) to tell them what a bad experience that you had with them, that they delivered a defective spa, that they didn't stand behind the product they sell, how you had to bring them to court, ... Basically that you will do whatever it takes legally to ruin them if you can. It sounds like they are trying to still make money off of you.
I once made a purchase that I was unhappy about and a vendor wasn't going to help me, unil I remembered that it was a charged transaction and I could cancel the payment. I told him I would, he claimed I couldn't, I said I can and will ... amazing how I got what I want.
OR give them the option to take the spa back and give you the money back.
I can understand the $200 for the crane but the money to deliver is crap.
I would probably go to the courts, bring the paperwork with me and flash it around if need be.
PS - it may sound like I'm a PITA person but I really am not. I do expect certain things from people/merchants and if the product or services aren't right I do expect to have it made right.
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whatever you do just don't mention court and BBB and attorney general blah blah blah. Just joke with him and turn serious and look him in dead in the eye and say, "dude you were just kidding about the 500 dollars, right?" Explain the situation to the owner and I'm sure he'll write it off.
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wow!!
I am sorry to hear all the trouble that you have had with Arctic.
I must admit that I was happy when my dealer ( who I had lost a bit of confidence with) let me deal directly with the manufacturer. I was able to explain my situation and only needed a back up fax from the techs to confirm what the problem was. I had purchased a Sundance Chelsee.
My dealer at first mentioned the shipping costs and I imediately mentioned that they had not fulfilled their orginal part of the agreement which was a working tub- I told them that I expected them to ship me what I paid for- a working tub. The warrantee is for parts that break but your problem is about a misrepresented product- they never delivered you what you paid for!! Stick to that- I did not have to pay for shipping delivery or set up but will have to pay for electrician set up.
Stick to fact that they NEVER delivered on orginal purchase agreement- a fully working tub!!!
Good luck!
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Hey, yall...
I have been crazy busy, but I wanted to tell you all that I sent a reply email to the factory tonight stating that I am happy they are finally replacing the spa, but respectfully pointing out that I already paid for one installation and shouldn't need to pay for a second.
I said I will take care of disassembling and reassembling my surround steps, sound system, and pergola (big chore). I will also schedule and pay for all of the unwiring and rewiring, and the boom truck. All of this work is now going to have to happen during the lovely Minnesota winter.
But I don't think I should need to pay for another installation. I lost enough money on wasted time, and on my insane electric bills.
Hopefully this will all be over soon, and we can get back to talking about fun things, like collector muscle cars, motorcycles, and yes hot tubs!
Steven
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s20/NorthWoodsDipper/Deck-Spa015.jpg)(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s20/NorthWoodsDipper/Deck-Spa001.jpg)(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s20/NorthWoodsDipper/Deck-Spa007.jpg)(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s20/NorthWoodsDipper/Deck-Spa006.jpg)
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24 years of age is far to young of an age. Do you mind sharing the story with us?? If not I understand. What a wonderful way to remember him by.
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Love the deck! WOW!
This is a tough call. I'm glad Arctic is looking after you but any warranty indicates that installation is over and above. Granted, you didn't receive a "perfect" spa but this would now be between you and your dealer for the cost of re-delivering the new spa. The factory doesn't pay its dealers for delivery costs. Here's where your dealer CAN help you as he didn't seem to be able to initally. He knows your situation and he may be willing to split the cost with you or something along those lines.
Your other option is to go and get it once it comes in.
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Love the deck! WOW!
This is a tough call. I'm glad Arctic is looking after you but any warranty indicates that installation is over and above. Granted, you didn't receive a "perfect" spa but this would now be between you and your dealer for the cost of re-delivering the new spa. The factory doesn't pay its dealers for delivery costs. Here's where your dealer CAN help you as he didn't seem to be able to initally. He knows your situation and he may be willing to split the cost with you or something along those lines.
Your other option is to go and get it once it comes in.
I know that Watkins will pay its dealers for spa changeouts. When Watkins determines the spa to be defective and needs to be replaced, they will pay the dealer to pick up the spa and deliver the new one.
I don't think it is fair for Arctic to not pay its dealer to change out a spa that was significantly flawed. I also don't think it is fair for the customer to have to pay for it's re-delivery.
This has taken Arctic so long to resolve, they should be embarrassed.
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Final update! Arctic factory has agreed to replace the spa and pay for the reinstallation. I will take care of the boom crane, electrical, etc. I only hope it can happen before it gets too bitterly cold up here.
All is good and right with the world.
Steven ~
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Love the deck! WOW!
Thanks! I enjoy playing with wood and granite. Plus it is fun to have people over when they say "how the hell did you do that?" And remember, chicks dig a guy who can use power tools! ;)
Steven
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24 years of age is far to young of an age. Do you mind sharing the story with us?? If not I understand. What a wonderful way to remember him by.
Thanks. I made that memorial for him myself. It looks really cool on my deck. He is my Nephew and Godson. You should have seen his mom when I showed it to her.
Oh poop... now you got me all teary eyed....
Anyway, yes he was too young and had to world by the tail. Was captain of his college rugby team. He always did struggle with depression though. He went to Iraq with the Army Reserve. But he came back a lost man. He took his own life about 6 months later.
Working on the deck helped my process the whole deal. I heard the news as I first started putting the posts in, and knew I wanted to create a memorial to dedicate it the project to him. Thanks for asking Bosco.
It's just another reason to be happy to be alive and to make sure we all enjoy our tubs as often as possible. :)
Steven ~
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Thanks! I enjoy playing with wood and granite. Plus it is fun to have people over when they say "how the hell did you do that?" And remember, chicks dig a guy who can use power tools! ;)
Steven
The dedication was touching and I'm sure lovingly appreciated by his entire family. I'm sure it was very therapeutic for you as well. Use it in good health!
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Thanks. I made that memorial for him myself. It looks really cool on my deck. He is my Nephew and Godson. You should have seen his mom when I showed it to her.
Oh poop... now you got me all teary eyed....
Anyway, yes he was too young and had to world by the tail. Was captain of his college rugby team. He always did struggle with depression though. He went to Iraq with the Army Reserve. But he came back a lost man. He took his own life about 6 months later.
Working on the deck helped my process the whole deal. I heard the news as I first started putting the posts in, and knew I wanted to create a memorial to dedicate it the project to him. Thanks for asking Bosco.
It's just another reason to be happy to be alive and to make sure we all enjoy our tubs as often as possible. :)
Steven ~
A little off subject, but we need to do something for our men and boys that SERVE THIS COUNTRY. 58,000 names on the Veit nam Memorial that never returned home, and of those veterans that do return home, they seem to be left on their own and ignored even by our VA, that is shameful, it's not their fault.
In 2005, 4,800 of our veterans that did return home committed sucide which indicates the difficult times they must deal with AFTER they return home. That is more than have been killed during this conflict (war) in Iraq. HOW CAN WE HELP THEM???